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Advice Trying to understand the game

silenthunder

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Please don't call me stupid but I've read online that it takes 11 frames to drop shield in ultimate. I'm doing tests with little Mac and I keep counting 14 frames before I can jab. Also I counted 8 frames where I can block an attack, the first 8. Can someone help me understand the game?
 

silenthunder

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Do they mean 11 frames until I can run because I counted 14 for tilts and jab but 11 to run away

Edit: I lied it takes 14 frames before I can run as well
 
Last edited:

silenthunder

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I also noticed the shield looks like it's not all the way up in the first few frames so maybe it's 11 frames after the shield looks normal
 

StoicPhantom

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Dec 11, 2018
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Please don't call me stupid but I've read online that it takes 11 frames to drop shield in ultimate. I'm doing tests with little Mac and I keep counting 14 frames before I can jab. Also I counted 8 frames where I can block an attack, the first 8. Can someone help me understand the game?
That is correct, it does take 11 frames to drop shield. I'm not sure how you are counting frames, but it's not just the shield drop frames but you also have to factor in shield stun and the negativity the attack has on shield. The game also has it's own native input lag to it as well.

https://ultimateframedata.com/

Have look at that site, it has lots of different stats.
 

silenthunder

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That is correct, it does take 11 frames to drop shield. I'm not sure how you are counting frames, but it's not just the shield drop frames but you also have to factor in shield stun and the negativity the attack has on shield. The game also has it's own native input lag to it as well.

https://ultimateframedata.com/

Have look at that site, it has lots of different stats.
Thanks for the reply. I'm counting frames in training. There are 14 frames where I can't jab after tapping shied as Mac. Nothing is hitting my shield. What is this native lag you're talking about? Can you go to training so you can see what I'm talking about? I don't know what they mean by 11.
 

silenthunder

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It's not just jabs either. I have to wait 14 frames before I can tilt as well
 

StoicPhantom

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Thanks for the reply. I'm counting frames in training. There are 14 frames where I can't jab after tapping shied as Mac. Nothing is hitting my shield. What is this native lag you're talking about? Can you go to training so you can see what I'm talking about? I don't know what they mean by 11.
What I mean by native lag is the time that it takes from pressing the button to when your screen shows the action. It varies between each of the Smash games. I don't think that is the issue here, so forget I said anything about it.

I'm getting 12 frames (shield drop + frame 1 Jab startup), so I think you just might be counting it wrong. Set your speed to 1 frame in training and hold ZL. Hold the shield button and let go of ZL while still holding the shield button. The game should freeze. Let go of the shield button and then slowly keep pressing ZL, counting each one until you reach 10, then start holding A as you press ZL. Once you hit twelve counts, Mac should Jab.

That's the 11 frame shield drop plus Mac's frame 1 Jab.
 

silenthunder

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What I mean by native lag is the time that it takes from pressing the button to when your screen shows the action. It varies between each of the Smash games. I don't think that is the issue here, so forget I said anything about it.

I'm getting 12 frames (shield drop + frame 1 Jab startup), so I think you just might be counting it wrong. Set your speed to 1 frame in training and hold ZL. Hold the shield button and let go of ZL while still holding the shield button. The game should freeze. Let go of the shield button and then slowly keep pressing ZL, counting each one until you reach 10, then start holding A as you press ZL. Once you hit twelve counts, Mac should Jab.

That's the 11 frame shield drop plus Mac's frame 1 Jab.
I did what you said and got 12 frames like you. Before I was tapping shield and letting go. I held shield then pressed ZL then dropped shield the next frame this gave me 3 extra frames.
 

silenthunder

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The first frame the shield didn't look up (if I was being attacked frame 1 it was up though) then there was 2 frames where I could see the shield and it was up. So I think the shield drop count starts when the shield visibly not on your character any more (but even though the shield drop count start has started you can still shield via parry)
 

silenthunder

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Thanks for the help stoicPhantom. I understand this game a limitless better now
 

silenthunder

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Do you know what shield lag is. The thing on the frame data site.
 

StoicPhantom

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Do you know what shield lag is. The thing on the frame data site.
If you look at the top of the page, where it says "Ultimate Frame Data", you should see a white circle with a question mark inside of it. Click on that and it should display a description of all the terms used on that site. "Shield Lag is just extra freeze frames that both the attacker and defender suffer, so it does not affect frame advantage." is what it says in there.

Meaning, when the attack connects with the shield, neither player is able to move for that specified time. For example, Captain Falcon's Jab has seven frames of shield lag, when that hits a shield, neither player can move for those seven frames.
 
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