Triforce of Inspiration: the last piece of the Tetraforce is...

[otheusrex]

Greetings mortals, it is I, the Unseen, the Hidden Goddess, Mistress of the Infinite Symmetries, Weaver of Worlds, the Fourth, the Goddess of Time, keeper of lost destinies and wielder of the last triforce. Unlike my sisters, I choose not to manifest my power directly, yet, though hidden, It is there, binding the outer pieces together, for I am Desire, and neither Power, Wisdom, nor Courage can have meaning without Me. Some have speculated as to the nature of the remaining triforce: Truth, Justice, Mystery, Being, they call It. It is all of these and none. But for those who would seek to understand It, call it Inspiration, and by Its name I summon ye to my abode, the Temple of Thought in my realm outside yet in the center of all the circles of Hyrule.

Welcome
​

To be in my presence is to attempt to wrest the last triforce from my grasp. Many will try; all will fail, for It is untenable for ye mortals. Yet, merely to attempt is to glimpse Its power, and none who witness Inspiration remain unchanged. Thus, I welcome ye. Stay as long or as little as ye desire, but know this: Those who cease to search for Me have left my domain...

To My Supplicants:​

Speak your desires that by the power of the Triforce, I may show them and ye shall understand the thoughts of your hearts.

For this reason have I called ye. Though within this Temple, there is no time, no mortal can truly remain here for long, thus for every desire put forth here, I will honor it for 7 of your Hyrulean days and nights that ye may meditate on the thoughts of your sisters. Ye may direct your questions to my faithful acolyte, the apprentice ye may know as Otheusrex, in whose care I must now leave ye.

​

Hey people! It's me, Otheusrex! Some of you may know me by my preferred tag, Elf. The Goddess sends her well wishes! I'm pleased to welcome you to the Temple of Thought! The Goddess has also asked me to explain some of the ground rules for this place. First of all, this is first and foremost for the enjoyment of everyone here so be respectful. Secondly, I will be doing my best to interpret the Goddess's wishes through my knowledge of PSA but understand that though the Goddess is all powerful, I, her faithful instrument, am limited by both the tools I have to work with and my capabilities as a coder. Thirdly, every week a new build from the Goddess will arrive for us to contemplate. I believe She intends for these 'inventions' to build upon one another week after week with some changes being kept while others being discarded, and yet I also believe she intends for each build to have the freedom of a unique and separate creation. The Goddess is really a mystery sometimes and I'm still trying to learn to be a good acolyte. With that being said, the Goddess wishes me to instruct you in her sacred tenants:

Spoiler: Tenant 1

It is easier to destroy than it is to create

Spoiler: Tenant 2

To discourage the creativity of others is profane, yet to withhold your criticism is also profane

Spoiler: Tenant 3

Thou shalt not lose thy original fitzeldapac file; to do so is an abomination

Spoiler: Tenant 4

Thou shalt not accidentally play thy modified pac files in tournaments; to do so is an abomination

 

[otheusrex]

Actually have been thinking about putting a formal petition against the two moves on the boards for a while now, I have kinda hated both of them ever since I started Zelda about a year ago. Our interaction in the other thread ad me want to poll the community and get a general consensus.

Your Desire has been manifest, faithful supplicant. All ye who wish to see the utility of a faster Dair and a stronger Dtilt need but follow the Fires of Media:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3ms7pexllqjl3js/FitZelda.pac

Now Go! Go forth and bear witness and testimony to the offering of the supplicant Angell. Remember that in 7 days and nights shall this offering last.

 

[4tlas]

Wat.

10wats.

So is this supposed to be a thread for experimenting with Zelda changes?! o.0

 

[luxingo]

So is this supposed to be a thread for experimenting with Zelda changes?! o.0

Haha kinda.

The Goddess has put together a thread where people can request changes and these changes will be granted in the form of a link to PM file that we can download, use and play around with.

I think it's pretty cool.

 

[Angell]

Your Desire has been manifest, faithful supplicant. All ye who wish to see the utility of a faster Dair and a stronger Dtilt need but follow the Fires of Media:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3ms7pexllqjl3js/FitZelda.pac

Now Go! Go forth and bear witness and testimony to the offering of the supplicant Angell. Remember that in 7 days and nights shall this offering last.

Words cannot describe how much I love you!

 

[Prynne]

O Goddess of Desire, Wielder of the Triforce of Inspiration, I beseech thee.
It is I, Prynne of the Scarlet palette swap, seeking your assistance in a quest of utmost triviality. Would it be beyond thine powers to make that which is electric, fire?
Ok, this is getting tedious to maintain.
So basically, would it be possible to make Zelda's electric moves (utilt, f-smash, u-smash, fair, bair, nair, dair, and maybe d-throw) have the fire effect, while still retaining the 1.5x hitlag modifiers of the electric effect, if that's even still a thing? Also, changing the sound effects to the "burn" one or whatever it is.
This is just an aesthetic thing and doesn't really have an effect on gameplay. Seeing as how I have no way to do it myself, I thought I would ask. If it's possible and plausible, that would be cool. If it's too difficult, or an excessive amount of work, I won't be horribly disappointed. I just thought it would be neat to have a fire-based Zelda.

 

[ECHOnce]

O Goddess of Desire, Wielder of the Triforce of Inspiration, I beseech thee.
It is I, Prynne of the Scarlet palette swap, seeking your assistance in a quest of utmost triviality. Would it be beyond thine powers to make that which is electric, fire?
Ok, this is getting tedious to maintain.
So basically, would it be possible to make Zelda's electric moves (utilt, f-smash, u-smash, fair, bair, nair, and dair) have the fire effect, while still retaining the 1.5x hitlag modifiers of the electric effect, if that's even still a thing? Also, changing the sound effects to the "burn" one or whatever it is.
This is just an aesthetic thing and doesn't really have an effect on gameplay. Seeing as how I have no way to do it myself, I thought I would ask. If it's possible and plausible, that would be cool. If it's too difficult, or an excessive amount of work, I won't be horribly disappointed. I just thought it would be neat to have a fire-based Zelda.

Yoooooo if that's possible, I'd appreciate having this too, BUT IN BLUE. Red/Green palette swaps would look soooo sick with blue fire.

EDIT: Actually scratch everything I just said lol. I'd miss my lightning too much. Maybe just a modded pac file with her fire attacks recolored to blue would be neat.

 

[Prynne]

As for this week's build, I like the changes, and they certainly aren't drastic or game breaking in any way, nor did they really alter my playstyle much. I was trying to use dair a lot, but it's still pretty situational. If anything, I'd be fine with the one we have now being a spike, because why not? But this build was really cool, and dtilt was really quite useful whenever I hit with it.

Yoooooo if that's possible, I'd appreciate having this too, BUT IN BLUE. Red/Green palette swaps would look soooo sick with blue fire.

EDIT: Actually scratch everything I just said lol. I'd miss my lightning too much. Maybe just a modded pac file with her fire attacks recolored to blue would be neat.

I just want the fire effect, personally. The sparkles and everything can stay. Isn't the aura effect blue? that might be doable.

 

[Downdraft]

@BlackMamba mentioned that he'd like if Zelda's ground attacks were safer on shield. I'd be interested in a build where ground attacks were less punishable on shield too.

 

[Angell]

As for this week's build, I like the changes, and they certainly aren't drastic or game breaking in any way, nor did they really alter my playstyle much. I was trying to use dair a lot, but it's still pretty situational. If anything, I'd be fine with the one we have now being a spike, because why not? But this build was really cool, and dtilt was really quite useful whenever I hit with it.



I just want the fire effect, personally. The sparkles and everything can stay. Isn't the aura effect blue? that might be doable.

Love the Dair idea also loved useing that dtilt

@BlackMamba mentioned that he'd like if Zelda's ground attacks were safer on shield. I'd be interested in a build where ground attacks were less punishable on shield too.

would love to see this as well

 

[otheusrex]

So, everyone, how are things? and how do you enjoy playing with the build? The Goddess wishes me to ask if it has revealed anything to you or given you greater understanding about anything? I'm not sure yet, but I was thinking about using discussion here to start a sort of master build that would develop overtime with favorite tweaks being kept or modified to suit its ever changing development. But of course, weekly divergents and wacky experiments are completely welcome too.

 

[otheusrex]

@BlackMamba mentioned that he'd like if Zelda's ground attacks were safer on shield. I'd be interested in a build where ground attacks were less punishable on shield too.

O Goddess of Desire, Wielder of the Triforce of Inspiration, I beseech thee.
It is I, Prynne of the Scarlet palette swap, seeking your assistance in a quest of utmost triviality. Would it be beyond thine powers to make that which is electric, fire?
Ok, this is getting tedious to maintain.
So basically, would it be possible to make Zelda's electric moves (utilt, f-smash, u-smash, fair, bair, nair, dair, and maybe d-throw) have the fire effect, while still retaining the 1.5x hitlag modifiers of the electric effect, if that's even still a thing? Also, changing the sound effects to the "burn" one or whatever it is.
This is just an aesthetic thing and doesn't really have an effect on gameplay. Seeing as how I have no way to do it myself, I thought I would ask. If it's possible and plausible, that would be cool. If it's too difficult, or an excessive amount of work, I won't be horribly disappointed. I just thought it would be neat to have a fire-based Zelda.

Earnest supplicants, your wishes have been granted. That which was electric is now made fire, and I have bestowed upon your princess the power to smite thine enemy's shield!

Thy flaming jab shall chip shields, and thy side
tilt longer now hath grown, thy down tilt to
avoid repelling thy defendant far
becometh not as damaging, and If
thine aim be timely, dash attack shall now
impaleth the defender's shield so that
thou striketh from behind. And should thy thumb
be upsmash-happy, now thy last strike shall
send back their feeble shield in wonderment.
So go forth to the fires of media;
unleash a fiery wrath upon your foes!
​

http://www.mediafire.com/download/85pfb97ibyxfzs2/electric to fire shield pressure.rar

Ye must also replace your fitzeldmotion.pac file to be worthy of this gift. Remember my tenants, especially the one numbering 3! Let them be a shield against folly!

 

[Prynne]

Two birds with one flaming meteor. I like the way you think.

Before I say anything at all, let me just say that if the cost of these buffs mean jeopardizing her multihits, that's a worthy sacrifice due to the raw power in this build.

Let's break this down, carefully.

First off, the fire effect is awesome, obviously.

Second, the ftilt buff is phenomenal, I think it's incredible. Definitely allows for more safety, but with the usmash difficulties I've been having, it's usefulness is reasonable within this build. Probably a bit overpowered on its own, but I like it anyway.

Third, usmash is weird. I don't know why, but it's weird. I can't get followups on it and the last hit seems weak and unsightly, but this could just be psychological. I am not feeling it for some reason.

Dtilt and jab are very nice. No problems there with anything. Worked well, worked the way they were intended to.

Finally, Dash attack is the soul of my heart. Probably the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Very comforting to be able to approach a shield with no fear. Maybe this is how a spacie feels...

Anyway, awesome work. I like these changes, even though some of them feel a little broke.

 

[Angell]

Does this new build still have the previous changes? I'm guessing it does.

Do you remember the topic about switching u-tilt and up smash a while back? Do you think you could try that?

Also.., THANK YOU!

 

[otheusrex]

I know what you mean about upsmash. @ Prynne I'm not sure if I made the best decisions for making it safer on shield. That task to improve all her ground moves in that way is a fairly creative one since there are many different ways to do it. I thought that increasing the shield pushback on upsmash would be the less ostentatious out of the options I came up with, but it's probably the options I took to decrease the brokenness that make it seem strange now. Increasing shield pushback is simply a matter of damage, so I needed the last hit to be a bit more damaging, but was unwilling for that to result in upsmash doing a total damage of 27 damage. So I reduced the number of little hits the move does, especially on the second half. Is that why the move looks strange?

Also, it being a fire element means that hitstun is less so that effects your opportunities for followups. It isn't possible, unfortunately to keep the 1.5x hitstun effect with having fire gfx surround your opponent. I thought about tweaking the KB on it but that would have changed the way the move combos in other ways as well. If you'd like though, you can add that as a request for me to try to do something specific like that with upsmash.

Also, thanks for the great response! That's exactly the type of feedback and discussion I want to cultivate here

 

[otheusrex]

Does this new build still have the previous changes? I'm guessing it does.

Do you remember the topic about switching u-tilt and up smash a while back? Do you think you could try that?

Also.., THANK YOU!

It doesn't have the same changes, you can always make more requests in the future though since I'll be doing this every week. I'm sure I could switch uptilt and upsmash

 

[otheusrex]

sigh... I didn't mean to post this but can't delete it now, so I have to type something here so it's not empty.... fml​

 

[luxingo]

During Farore's Wind, Zelda disappears. This includes her hurtboxes, items she's holding, player tags, and her collision points and TopN visual locators if they're toggled to be displayed. Yet it would be very helpful for practicing teleport tech (edge-canceled telecancel, perfect telecancel sweetspot from below the ledge, telecanceling onto platforms above) to be able to see her location during her up special.

I think the easiest solution would be to create an item that constantly emits something, like the smoke ball item. The smoke ball does work somewhat, but as you can imagine, it's not particularly clear. Alternatively, there may be a way of modifying FitZelda.pac to include some locator even when she has disappeared.

Weaver of Worlds, may I request an answer to mine predicament?

 

[ECHOnce]

I'm not sure how complex this would be since idk what I'm talking about with coding stuff but...maybe down the line, would it be feasibly possible to integrate toggling PM 3.02 Zelda mechanics via taunts? Like...side-taunt toggling 3.02 Dins, or up-taunt toggling 3.02 Teledashing. I'd imagine that even if it could be done, it would take up a bit too much memory, buuut...just figured I'd put the idea on the table aha

 

[otheusrex]

I'm not sure how complex this would be since idk what I'm talking about with coding stuff but...maybe down the line, would it be feasibly possible to integrate toggling PM 3.02 Zelda mechanics via taunts? Like...side-taunt toggling 3.02 Dins, or up-taunt toggling 3.02 Teledashing. I'd imagine that even if it could be done, it would take up a bit too much memory, buuut...just figured I'd put the idea on the table aha

I'm afraid that is far beyond my talents, sadly. At least with Dins. I might be able to do the teledashing thing, not sure

 

[WhiteCrow]

Goddess of fortune
You bestow on me such rare
Creativity

While back air now kills
What if it's purpose revised?
Electrifying

A combo based angle
No longer a K.O. Kick
Now a combo heel?

As well shall I partake with other builds
With haste to learn and share, report I'll bring

(And not in haiku form or iambic pentameter: What if Zelda's back air was more of a comboing tool and less of a kill move? What if it extended our combos instead of ending them, like Toon Link's bair or Game and Watch's? The electrical effect would keep them in hitstun for longer which would be fun to experiment with, and it would make us use it less for random kills OoS. I want to figure out how to download these builds so I can start experimenting with them. Even if they are hella broken I love this kind of hands on brain storming.)​

 

[ECHOnce]

I'm afraid that is far beyond my talents, sadly. At least with Dins. I might be able to do the teledashing thing, not sure

NBD, I'm actually hyped that one of them even had a chance of maybe working xD

Goddess of fortune
You bestow on me such rare
Creativity

While back air now kills
What if it's purpose revised?
Electrifying

A combo based angle
No longer a K.O. Kick
Now a combo heel?

As well shall I partake with other builds
With haste to learn and share, report I'll bring ​

This thread is slowly travelling back in time. It feels like I'm on a cheap 90's website lmao.

 

[Angell]

Goddess of fortune
You bestow on me such rare
Creativity

While back air now kills
What if it's purpose revised?
Electrifying

A combo based angle
No longer a K.O. Kick
Now a combo heel?

As well shall I partake with other builds
With haste to learn and share, report I'll bring
(And not in haiku form or iambic pentameter: What if Zelda's back air was more of a comboing tool and less of a kill move? What if it extended our combos instead of ending them, like Toon Link's bair or Game and Watch's? The electrical effect would keep them in hitstun for longer which would be fun to experiment with, and it would make us use it less for random kills OoS. I want to figure out how to download these builds so I can start experimenting with them. Even if they are hella broken I love this kind of hands on brain storming.)​

I am in favor of this, but these changes should go to fair instead...

 

[WhiteCrow]

I am in favor of this, but these changes should go to fair instead...

Why? Forward air is already a reliable kill move even though it is harder to use. Spamming bair as a primary kill option (with fair changed to combo) kind of goes against why I want a combo move in the first place.

 

[Prynne]

We balance it by giving fair 20% for all 3-4 frames, and making bair the combo move that does 12-15%, but with decent stun.

 

[Angell]

Why? Forward air is already a reliable kill move even though it is harder to use. Spamming bair as a primary kill option (with fair changed to combo) kind of goes against why I want a combo move in the first place.

Bair to Bair is already a thing right now. (try it!)

I was thinking you give zelda a 10% magical shove (ROB inspired) that has a sweet spot so you can combo it into the faster dair.
(Like a lean slightly foreward and send out sparks at a mid range and is a kind of sex kick) this idea is something I have been thinking about for a while now. I mean she already has one kick I always thought she diddn't reall need two.

I can draw a picture if you need a better idea of what I'm talking about

 

[otheusrex]

Bair to Bair is already a thing right now. (try it!)

I was thinking you give zelda a 10% magical shove (ROB inspired) that has a sweet spot so you can combo it into the faster dair.
(Like a lean slightly foreward and send out sparks at a mid range and is a kind of sex kick) this idea is something I have been thinking about for a while now. I mean she already has one kick I always thought she diddn't reall need two.

I can draw a picture if you need a better idea of what I'm talking about

yes, lol, that would help me understand a little better. right now I'm picturing zelda riding around on a broomstick

 

[Angell]

I'll get one up here tomorrow

 

[WhiteCrow]

Bair to Bair is already a thing right now. (try it!)

Bair>bair only works on opponents with wretched DI. It's angle in general is unreliable for comboing which is why I suggested a retooling. Tis up to the Goddess of Time though.

 

[Angell]

Bair>bair only works on opponents with SURVIVl DI. It's angle in general is unreliable for comboing which is why I suggested a retooling. Tis up to the Goddess of Time though.

Fixed

 

[Kaeldiar]

Bair>bair only works on opponents with wretched DI. It's angle in general is unreliable for comboing which is why I suggested a retooling. Tis up to the Goddess of Time though.

At low% it's actually easier than you think

 

[WhiteCrow]

At low% it's actually easier than you think

Bair to Bair is already a thing right now. (try it!)

I think you're both missing the point... At low percents>combos into itself with bad DI (or if they CC), at high percents>kill move. I want at all percents>combos into other aerials/grabs/tilts with high hit-stun. Like Toon Link's bair, or the sour spot of Marth's bair, or G&W's bair, or late hit of Shiek's bair. I just wanted to try something different than a killer kick.

 

[WhiteCrow]

During Farore's Wind, Zelda disappears. This includes her hurtboxes, items she's holding, player tags, and her collision points and TopN visual locators if they're toggled to be displayed. Yet it would be very helpful for practicing teleport tech (edge-canceled telecancel, perfect telecancel sweetspot from below the ledge, telecanceling onto platforms above) to be able to see her location during her up special.

I think the easiest solution would be to create an item that constantly emits something, like the smoke ball item. The smoke ball does work somewhat, but as you can imagine, it's not particularly clear. Alternatively, there may be a way of modifying FitZelda.pac to include some locator even when she has disappeared.

Weaver of Worlds, may I request an answer to mine predicament?

Sorry to double post but this would be amazing. It would be so helpful to have an indicator as to where we are in teleport since it covers such a long distance. I foresee people griping about Zelda's current teleport not being telegraphed and something like this being implemented in the main game anyway, so we may as well experiment with this concept before that happens. I might be paranoid, but Zelda seems to change every time she sees success in big tournaments.

 

[otheusrex]

Sorry to double post but this would be amazing. It would be so helpful to have an indicator as to where we are in teleport since it covers such a long distance. I foresee people griping about Zelda's current teleport not being telegraphed and something like this being implemented in the main game anyway, so we may as well experiment with this concept before that happens. I might be paranoid, but Zelda seems to change every time she sees success in big tournaments.

you're gonna **** yourself on tuesday

 

[Downdraft]

Sorry to double post but this would be amazing. It would be so helpful to have an indicator as to where we are in teleport since it covers such a long distance. I foresee people griping about Zelda's current teleport not being telegraphed and something like this being implemented in the main game anyway, so we may as well experiment with this concept before that happens. I might be paranoid, but Zelda seems to change every time she sees success in big tournaments.

It's not just Zelda though. I've recently been convinced by someone's argument on reddit that Pit was fine in 3.02. Armada and CT Zero made the character similarly to how Zhime was making Zelda. One major difference is that Zhime wasn't knocking off what'd I consider to be elite players, so why was Zelda even touched when she hadn't won anything major?

 

[Angell]

My Idea in picture form: not my best art ever, but it gets the point across.

Why Bair doesn't work: it's already a solid move. I think @ WhiteCrow is thinking of a hitbox rework, I am thinking of another move entirely. Fair is a better move for a combo airel because if you land it on someone at low height, you can combo it into a dtilt/ dsmash/ non dash grab, something using bair would not allow. I think the kicks' best attributes should be fused into bair (basically just fair's angle)

Particles: shoots off electric particles like her jab, a disjoint but it's furthest reach is less than her current fair.

Meaning of the circles
Yellow: 50 ish degree angle, low growth and low hitstun an hit box that will combo at mid 40s to about 100s
Red: a whiff, easily ccable, has a -20 angle so it can be used for edgeguarding (think the sour spot of shiek's bair)
Green/ pink: THE MONEY! these are the hitboxes you will want almost always. High hitstun, low knockback (like you can use these hitboxes to preform a ken combo with Zelda at around 60%
Blue: 0 degree knock back angle, little hitstun, little damage, only really useful for edgeguarding.

So... that is my idea and I think this is THE CHANGE that will allow Zelda to take nationals.

If it seems way too hard to implement, I understand but thank you for reading through this whole crazy post!

 

[Prynne]

It's not just Zelda though. I've recently been convinced by someone's argument on reddit that Pit was fine in 3.02. Armada and CT Zero made the character similarly to how Zhime was making Zelda. One major difference is that Zhime wasn't knocking off what'd I consider to be elite players, so why was Zelda even touched when she hadn't won anything major?

Politics.

Also, can I take this moment to just say how much I love this thread? Let's all thank @ otheusrex and the Goddess of Desire for putting the time and energy into these Zelda builds.

 

[ECHOnce]

So... that is my idea and I think this is THE CHANGE that will allow Zelda to take nationals.

A weak F-air for comboing is an interesting idea, but I'd like to point a few things out. But before I start, I wanted to say that while I'm not against the idea (I'm actually curious and wanna try it aha), I don't think it would be a favorable or popular enough change to make it into the official build and become as influential as you may hope.

Spoiler

(1) The changes suggested in this thread should't be made with the aspiration of them changing Zelda tourney results, because chances are none of them will make it into the official build. Although it can serve as a testing grounds for ideas for PMDT to possibly skim over in the future, it's unlikely that any of our suggestions will have a major impact on future Zelda iterations (without crazy revisions), especially those suggestions involving a move being replaced (and 1/2 of Zelda's most iconic move at that, aha)

(2) There are 3 types of common F-airs. Slow+strong F-airs (sometimes double as a spike/meteor), quick+strong F-airs (like our current LK), and quick+weak F-airs. First two are combo enders, last is a combo starter. Zelda's aerials U-air and LKs all double as the last two, although the weak hits are a bit more situational and aren't able to start combos as easily/flexibly as your suggested F-air would. So imo making it a 100% quick+weak F-air wouldn't necessarily help/hurt her or her meta, it would just give her different options (current options like F-throw --> F-air, a threatening F-air oos, etc. would be exchanged for just about the same number of new combos; no loss or gain).

(3) Her hurtbox is super vulnerable, since the hitbox only covers a small area by the top of her (taaaall) body. Sort of like how D-air is a horrible move because (disregarding it's slow startup), the hitboxes only cover a small area below her, and since it doesn't really protect her large hurtbox at all, if it trades with basically anything she'll probably lose. imo this could be fixed by extending the hitboxes a bit further down, and have it work similar to Wolf's quick F-air (slashy movement). This follows the general rule that all tall characters seem to use - they either have a large hitbox to protect their large bodies (either overlapping with their hurtbox like Ganon stuff, or with an arcing slashy movement like Marth stuff or Falcon U-air), or they contort their hurtbox bodies behind a smaller hitbox (like Zelda LK or Link D-air).

So yeah. I don't think it would make a crazy impact on Zelda tourney results or meta. But that doesn't make it any less of a fun experiment to try out, which is what this thread is for aha.

 

[WhiteCrow]

View attachment 44583

Why Bair doesn't work: it's already a solid move. I think @ WhiteCrow is thinking of a hitbox rework, I am thinking of another move entirely. Fair is a better move for a combo airel because if you land it on someone at low height, you can combo it into a dtilt/ dsmash/ non dash grab, something using bair would not allow. I think the kicks' best attributes should be fused into bair (basically just fair's angle)

I'm assuming that since you're saying "bair doesn't work: it's already a solid move" you're saying "your bair idea doesn't work" which makes me think of the second tenant; To discourage the creativity of others is profane. I am assuming though. Your fair idea is cool, I'm glad you suggested it. My bair idea is different, which is also cool. I'm not confused or mistaken, they are just different ideas.

However, I shall not betray the second tenant; yet to withhold your criticism is also profane. Once I figure out how to put these custom Zelda builds onto my SD card (I is bad with computers and this one is brand new, rip Windows 7) I will be posting my feedback. Over-powered or not, most of these Zelda builds sound hella fun.

 

[Angell]

I'm assuming that since you're saying "bair doesn't work: it's already a solid move" you're saying "your bair idea doesn't work" which makes me think of the second tenant; To discourage the creativity of others is profane. I am assuming though. Your fair idea is cool, I'm glad you suggested it. My bair idea is different, which is also cool. I'm not confused or mistaken, they are just different ideas.

However, I shall not betray the second tenant; yet to withhold your criticism is also profane. Once I figure out how to put these custom Zelda builds onto my SD card (I is bad with computers and this one is brand new, rip Windows 7) I will be posting my feedback. Over-powered or not, most of these Zelda builds sound hella fun.

I am so sorry if I came off that way! My bad! I was kinda saying why I think fair should get this move instead of Bair because I thought he might confuse our two ideas and I think my idea would only work with fair. Sorry if I offended iPad is not my native keyboard.