Transition from 1122 to 3312

[marteen_]

After poking around a bit here, 3312 seems to be the favorite set of Gunner mains. I'm personally a 1122 lover here, using Flame Pillar to stuff out approaches projectiles as well as using it as an offensive tool for annoying recoveries with Charge Shot having nice damage and moderate kill power.

Normally, I wouldn't be too concerned, but the most "Optimal" set seems like it's likely going to be the rule for the future, and 3312 seems to be the overwhelming favorite.

After messing around a bit with 3312, I'm having a hard time adjusting and thinking that this set is even good. Am I just approaching 3312 wrong, and that it's more reliant on longer distances because of the slower startup on the moves? (especially the missles)

 

[SR-71]

Keep using 1122 if that's what you love! Tonight I went to a local tournament and won 2 sets basically with Flame Pillar and Charge Shot, but I can't do anything with grenades or missiles, especially on default size. And don't worry, 3312 isn't going to become the rule. I don't know why that rumor got started.

 

[Djmarcus44]

As a 1111 gunner main, I also find it somewhat difficult to adjust to 3312. It requires a lot more precision in order to get as many combos as possible. It is more reliant on long range, and it is best played by full hopping into the air and using grenade, missile, and bomb drop to zone, combo and land (bomb drop is great for landing). Grenade and missile are also good edgeguarding tools.

If you want to learn 3312, I would ask san or Wii Twerk Trainer for tips, but it is best to stick to your best moveset until you are forced to change to a different one (since it seems more likely that tournaments are going to force players to use 1111, I could be of more help with that moveset if you need any help with that).

 

[Saltyman]

Lunar Launch travels way too slow and the hitbox is practically useless since it leaves you in a slow tumble animation. Personally I use Cannon Uppercut on all my sets.. Great ledge snap so you don't always have to sweetspot it facing the right way like Lunar Launch, basically the same distance thanks to the speed and autosnap, the punch can hit through the stage, the spike can hit through the stage, you can OoS around 100% for a KO. You can also combo Grenade Launch, Flame Pillar, Missiles, or Bomb Drop into it. Same as Down Throw, Up Air, and Up Tilt but much harder to do at KO percents.

It also counters quite a few aerials for KOs off the top of the screen. Mostly just really dangerous offstage thanks to the multiple hitboxes, it can easily stagespike or just straight up spike someone at low percents if they make the slightest error on the ledge. Those are things that Gunner really lacks. OoS options are really important when you're getting rushed down by a character with top tier grabs. It's too easy to roll inside or behind Gunner or go for easy stagespikes without it. You have a wall jump as well, which can actually be super handy for avoiding attacks and landing the Uppercut on the ledge.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Lunar Launch travels way too slow and the hitbox is practically useless since it leaves you in a slow tumble animation. Personally I use Cannon Uppercut on all my sets.. Great ledge snap so you don't always have to sweetspot it facing the right way like Lunar Launch, basically the same distance thanks to the speed and autosnap, the punch can hit through the stage, the spike can hit through the stage, you can OoS around 100% for a KO. You can also combo Grenade Launch, Flame Pillar, Missiles, or Bomb Drop into it. Same as Down Throw, Up Air, and Up Tilt but much harder to do at KO percents.

It also counters quite a few aerials for KOs off the top of the screen. Mostly just really dangerous offstage thanks to the multiple hitboxes, it can easily stagespike or just straight up spike someone at low percents if they make the slightest error on the ledge. Those are things that Gunner really lacks. OoS options are really important when you're getting rushed down by a character with top tier grabs. It's too easy to roll inside or behind Gunner or go for easy stagespikes without it. You have a wall jump as well, which can actually be super handy for avoiding attacks and landing the Uppercut on the ledge.

The helpless state of Lunar Launch is not that bad because it has good aerial mobility. You can also fastfall the helpless state. Lunar Launch has more vertical distance and much more horizontal distance than Cannon Uppercut.

While cannon uppercut has passable vertical distance, the horizontal distance from cannon uppercut is pretty bad. It is also worse than up smash as an OOS option (Unless a grounded opponent lands right in front of Gunner's shield, up smash kills earlier. Up smash is also the safer option since it has more hitboxes and less lag). Up smash is also better for covering rolls behind Gunner since the Up Smash has hitboxes that last longer than a roll. Jab, up tilt, and down tilt are better moves in close range than Cannon Uppercut because they are faster and safer options.

By the way, are those combos that you mentioned for cannon uppercut true combos?

 

[Saltyman]

Down throw to Uppercut works at low percents, much more reliably than up air actually. Grenades can work but you have to auto cancel one and run up pretty quick to catch them in the explosion or it can work if you manage to trap someone between 2 grenades, delayed missiles can work or if you manage to land a jab reset with one you can just run up and up b.

I've only had a few situations where the distance on Cannon Uppercut kills me, but it does net a lot of KOs out of shield or on hard reads. The spike is also much easier to land than the stupid down air, which is really nice for catching opponents trying to dodge your explosives. You still move a fair distance during and after the move and have a better more reliable hitbox below you, and above you. Just my thoughts on it though.

Edit: it's also a much more reliable KO option than smashes when you get a shield break, depending on position and percent. Super Missiles, Bomb Drop and Down Smash (if you land both) take out a shield in 2 hits. Bomb Drop and Back Air can do it in most situations.