Transcript of the SBR "MK Podcast" (Sonic section)//Steak Break Room:Sonic Discussion

[Terios the Hedgehog]

His grab range isn't great, but it doesn't really matter because of his speed.
And F-Smash I know is disjointed when stutterstepped, but not too sure when it's just a plain ol' smash.

I know if someone is walking into you from behind, the fist will hit you.
It's hilarious, my friend gets hit by it all the time :D

I'm not sure why stutterstepping would affect it. It's just an abuse of sliding mechanics right? Like Pika's dtilt to fsmash? Just... with more range.

 

[Tenki]

lol i meant to quote Camalange's disjointed stutterstep and ended up quoting the post about Sonic unleashed 9_9;

something about stutterstep

I'm not sure why stutterstepping would affect it. It's just an abuse of sliding mechanics right? Like Pika's dtilt to fsmash? Just... with more range.

It shouldn't.

F-smash is a bit disjoint anyway. I guess he just happens to 'tip' the placement more often when he uses stutterstep more often than when he doesn't.

 

[Camalange]

F-smash is a bit disjoint anyway. I guess he just happens to 'tip' the placement more often when he uses stutterstep more often than when he doesn't.

This is what I meant.

 

[Kalm]

*walks into sonic boards*

*stares at thread*

*jaw drops*

Wow... way to make me love Sonic mains even more... I mean, you guys were always my fav but ****. I don't see this much ball density in any of the other threads that's for sure.

*looks at Marth DBZ thread over yonder and laughs*

I got a chance to finally see some vids from Tenki today. Can't remember the last time I said OMG so loudly. I know that almost every Sonic main is someone who loved the character long before knowing he would come to brawl, and that they're determined to make him good no matter what being dedicated fans. I've been wanting to use the best of Sonic's potential for as long as I've had this game and just can't help but get frustrated with him. I really just want to call him a bad character.

Thanks a lot to those of you helping people like me retain faith by putting in the hours to learn about what it takes to kick *** with Sonic. Maybe one day, I'll finally be able to harness the power of the fastest ferret alive.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic's grab range isn't terrible. Its...average I think nt sure.

ice climbers have bad range.

 

[Tenki]

I got a chance to finally see some vids from Tenki today. Can't remember the last time I said OMG so loudly. I know that almost every Sonic main is someone who loved the character long before knowing he would come to brawl, and that they're determined to make him good no matter what being dedicated fans. I've been wanting to use the best of Sonic's potential for as long as I've had this game and just can't help but get frustrated with him. I really just want to call him a bad character.

1) lol hopefully, the vs Snake one, because that was probably my funniest recorded round ever, even though it wasn't a very serious/valid round XD

2) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196545

;]

If you lose, blame lag. If you lose and you're not online, blame being too used to lag. If you win, lag was not a factor. Lag is never the ally, only the enemy.

lolol I remember reading this sig before, and it always comes to mind when I play slower friends offline, because I tend to just autopilot my inputs for things like baiting rolls.

I'd do like, a perfect bait to punish a move, and a second later, he'll move into it, right after I finish the punishment. @__@

 

[JayBee]

wow. just wow. they barely gave any information as to why, then shifted to like, rob and snake or something. they clearly don't know enough. i wish they cared to even check here, and not just use ONE example. And comparing him to meta... wow, compare anyone not named meta to snake, and you get the same result mostly. it's like comparing steak to bologna...

 

[Tenki]

I think it's been solidified by SP and examples from both the SBR discussion and the WCD thread that not all of the SBR is necessarily represented by those statements.

He also made a pretty nice post earlier that made alot of people happyface.



I gotta admit, everyone bought into it pretty well. Good damage control lol.

 

[aeghrur]

Sonic's grab range isn't terrible. Its...average I think nt sure.

ice climbers have bad range.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207
I wish that was true.

 

[Kalm]

1) lol hopefully, the vs Snake one, because that was probably my funniest recorded round ever, even though it wasn't a very serious/valid round XD

2) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196545

;]




lolol I remember reading this sig before, and it always comes to mind when I play slower friends offline, because I tend to just autopilot my inputs for things like baiting rolls.

I'd do like, a perfect bait to punish a move, and a second later, he'll move into it, right after I finish the punishment. @__@

Yeah vs Snake(Fiction) ShinBowMeow(DK) and.... crap I mixed up the names and characters... whatever. Ike(Metroid116) or something. I could literally see the opponents just getting sloppy and confused, that's exactly the kind of effect you would expect Sonic to have. I don't know if I liked the DK one or Snake one better, they were both hilarious and incredible.
I'm glad that my sig holds such an impression lol, it is the truth and nothing else.
*Just got through writing a big mean letter over the crappy online of brawl in another forum.*

 

[Camalange]

Under IC's standing grab, and dash grab range, it's very low. In the red even.
Sonic's standing grab is at the very bottom...but his dash grab is at the bottom of the orange, which is still low.

But the speed makes up for everything Amiright?

 

[aeghrur]

Yup, sonic's speed+slidy-ish running shield grab is good, and so is his running->SideB->Shield grab. :D

 

[Tenki]

Falcon's standing grab is worse than Sonic's.

 

[Camalange]

Maybe that chart is just fail then...

 

[Tenki]

@Camalange:
what chart?

Front page updated with guest commentary and character summary.

 

[aeghrur]

T_T Tenki... ignores my posts... T_T

 

[Kalm]

Honorable suicide is the only thing left for you now.

 

[aeghrur]

HONORABLE? I don't even deserve that. :'( *suicides*

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm playing Sonic unleashed right now. I had 1 running stage and like... a hojillion werehog stages. The werehog was HORRIBLE at first. But now that I got some new abilities it's....still pretty bad. Playable though. I assume it's like Sonic and the Secret Rings in that regard. At FIRST it seems kind of bad. But once you have your character at a higher level it's fun. I HOPE that's the case. No one was looking forward to werehog in the first place. If it BOMBS the whole way through I'll be very sad...... The running stages are GREAT though. Need some more of those. T_T

I was.

I'm also playing Unleashed. Running stages are FANTASTIC, but there are a wee bit too many Werehog stages.

It's all good though, the running stages are just so awesome.
I'm STILL getting this for the PS3 as well, provided I buy a PS3 first.

Oh, and on topic: I'm also curious as to what chart people are referring to.

 

[Crazy Italian Techno Humper]

So, is this like the new chat room?

It's pretty cool.

 

[Xanthyr]

What's up Catinthehat.

Should we spam this to hell and high heaven? I don't feel right if that were to happen as this is some sort of monolith to look to when we forget how to act appropriately in debate.

 

[Tenki]

No, not really.

More like a new, better WCD.

Except it's not weekly.

You might want to leave the pokemon to us and 'read the stickies first' HINT !!! D:

B. Range

1.6 blocks
-Olimar (blue/white Pikmin)
1.5 blocks
-Samus
-Zero Suit Samus
-Olimar (red/yellow Pikmin)
1.3 blocks
-Link
1.2 blocks
-Toon Link
1.1 blocks
-Yoshi
1 block
-Olimar (purple Pikmin)
-Lucas
0.9 blocks
-Ivysaur
0.8 blocks
-Charizard
0.6 blocks
-Bowser
-Donkey Kong
-King Dedede
-Zelda
0.5 blocks
-Peach
-Diddy Kong
-R.O.B.
-Kirby
-Squirtle
-Jigglypuff
-Marth
0.4 blocks
-Wario
-Sheik
-Meta Knight
-Fox
-Captain Falcon
-Pikachu
-Snake
0.33 blocks
-Ganondorf
-Pit
-Falco
-Wolf
-Ike
-Ness
-Mr. Game & Watch
0.3 blocks
-Mario
0.25 blocks
-Luigi
-Ice Climbers
-Lucario
-Sonic

Well, this isn't unbelievable, but I'm pretty sure I did a test once between Falcon and Sonic to see who had a longer grab range, and I'm pretty sure Sonic won. x.x;

 

[Crazy Italian Techno Humper]

What's up Catinthehat.

Isn't he banned?

 

[cutter]

Isn't he banned?

I smell ban evasion...

 

[The Real Inferno]

If CITH is the other CITH he might wish to be aware that ban evasion is very very bad.

 

[infomon]

As awesome as Unsaxon's throw/grab info post is, I find it tedious to root through to extract the information I'm interested in, so here's a tl;dr for Sonic's grabs:

• standing grab is extremely fast, but with miserable range
• pivot grab really sucks (luckily side-B replaces this)
• dash-grab has better range
• pummel has amazing DPS! <-- I need to learn to time this properly
• sonic's up-throw is great, but we all knew that

So, is this like the new chat room?

In multiple threads, I keep seeing tangents about Unleashed or other stuff; somewhere I was about to post: "Hey guys, shouldn't we be talking about this in the......." but then I realized, there's nowhere for it to go. But I'm interested in it, so I won't complain.

 

[The Real Inferno]

About the grab range list, while it is very well done, the grab range is (if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong) calculated by relative reach to body size. That might affect placings and skew them a little.

 

[LuCKy]

im too lazy to look through this n i probably need some help lol

someone gimme some quick stuff on meta knight,rob,game watch n ddd

someone good . . .you got this

 

[infomon]

oh Inferno I see now.... that makes a bit more sense.

So in this thread, we've learned that the only SBRers that posted in the Sonic WCD thread were the ones that didn't know much about Sonic, whereas Samulai and some other SBRers know lots about Sonic but didn't post any of it. We've debunked a lot of misconception about Sonic's priority, like how to go even with Wario and G&W (!), and evaluated how his grab game sucks superficially but in practice is really good (like most of Sonic's game in general). At least one person came in and realized that Sonic's more viable than pop opinion would tell you. And we've had some mention of steak, and Sonic's newest 3D game which appears to actually be good.

I think we're doing well for ourselves.

 

[LuCKy]

hmmm i see a lot has changed since i left. . . lol guess im on my own heh

time to invent sonic *stretch*

 

[Tenki]

On MK:
MK has crappy shield stun, so release shield as soon as his attacks finish and try to hit him with a dash attack or something.

Tornado - shield it and when he pulls off, run after and either dash attack/shield grab.
Shuttle loop - (optional) shield it --> when he goes into glide mode, jump a F-air or spindash into him while he's in the air (jump+F-air ASAP if you shield the rise)
D-smash - half second opening from the front.

Tornado - if you're running from one that's like, head height is kind of falling and he's chasing you, run away then use a grounded spring. Punish his movement after that.

F-air - ?__? If he's approaching with F-air but doesn't retreat, he's open to a SH aerial out of shield.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Actually I've heard some bad reviews of Unleashed being really bad during the Werehog parts. This worries me, since I have high hopes for it.

I'd be more wary of something like MK's Dtilt being used to bait you into a Dair. the IASA frames are out the *** on that move so be wary when you think it has openings in it that aren't actually there. He can buffer it directly into a Ftilt combo (true combo) and it hurts annoying with the Ftilt having quite a bit of deceptive range as well that can throw you off.

Tenki you forgot to mention you can Fsmash that tornado. Mr. 3000 does it alot.

 

[Espy Rose]

Actually I've heard some bad reviews of Unleashed being really bad during the Werehog parts. This worries me, since I have high hopes for it.

It's not that they're BAD. They're...mediocre at worst, for me at least.

The problem is that there's too many of them, in comparison to the running levels.
The daytime levels are great though.

Sonic practically runs at the speed of steak in the daytime levels.

If you aren't a Sonic-hardcore-fan, I'd recommend renting it first.

 

[Tenki]

Tenki you forgot to mention you can Fsmash that tornado. Mr. 3000 does it alot.

B-air works too, but...

F-smash requires foresight and distance between you and MK because of its startup lag. B-air requires that MK is chasing you as you're retreating, or some other spacing mishap.

OoS punishments are more reliable iirc

 

[The Halloween Captain]

In multiple threads, I keep seeing tangents about Unleashed or other stuff; somewhere I was about to post: "Hey guys, shouldn't we be talking about this in the......." but then I realized, there's nowhere for it to go.

Where it goes -

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5892007#post5892007

 

[Tenki]

D-smash breaks some tornados too `.`;

Sometimes.

I think D-smash might be a little weird.

After being Falconjabbed out of D-smash, I think Sonic's hurtbox might be above his attackbox during D-smash.

 

[ShadowLink84]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207
I wish that was true.

I have to question it primarily because I had done a comparison between Sonic's grab range and the IC's grab range and he has noticeably larger grab range than them. Roughly the same as Mario.

As for always ground releasing I don't believe that is true since I have managed to air release most of the cast.

 

[Browny]

so i had a pretty funny game on wifi today, me as MK vs a sonic, we both started spamming dtilt slowly advancing towards each other and didnt shield or do anything else. after about 30 seconds of all that there was only about a 5% difference between mk and sonics % (MK's favour)

With proper timing i think its quite possible for sonic to simply wait for mks dtilt to just get in range and dtilt him out of the lag frames since sonics moves him further forward.

:/

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Hey Panda. If you're still reading this how's Anther's Sonic coming along?

Friendlies from a few hours ago at my place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW1LLr-7bmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqEfkPl9kFg

 

[Browny]

anther makes some of the most bizarre decisions ever...

there arent enough facepalms on the internet to describe how he goes from playing so well to falling into to most painfully obvious traps you would never expect someone of his level to get caught by

seriously, someone needs to ban anther from doing d-airs. take those out of his game and he'd fare much better