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Tournament specific Brawl modification? Staying true to vanilla Brawl.

clydeaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
320
Location
Utah
Lately I've been wanting to get back into vanilla Brawl, but it seems like most Smash players bash on Brawl because it's not like Melee, Tripping sucks, Meta Knight's broken, etc. Although I completely understand why, I would like to make a mod with everything people hate about Brawl removed, fixed, or changed, but the point is not to make it like Melee or Project M, but to make Brawl enjoyable competitively on it's own. In order to do so I would like to gather as much knowledge as I can about what made Brawl seem quote "not competitive." Mostly with the mindset that the mod Balanced Brawl has which is to balance and fix the game while trying to keep the formula as close to Brawl as possible. I want to make Brawl the popular fighting game it should have been instead of just making it play like Melee. If anything is based more off of vBrawl, Smash 4, and Balanced Brawl rather than Project M, Melee, or Smash 64. I want to make a mod that's intended for competitive players while also keeping as close as possible to vanilla Brawl. No overall big changes will be made to the Physics engine unless they are necessary.

At first I only wanted to make a mod just for Brawl tournaments that did the following:
  • - Installed like the no homebrew Project M mod. No additional hacks needed.
  • - Removed random tripping.
  • - Remove or prevent Meta Knight from being selectable on the character select screen or in the random character select. so as to follow the banned meta knight rule most players follow in vBrawl.
  • - Automatically unlocked all characters, stages, and the random stage select option when installed.
  • - The options are automatically set to 3 Stock, 8 Minuets, No items, etc. by default.
  • - All Legal stages are on the normal stage select screen while non legal stages are on the second stage screen.

I then realized that there were quite a few more things that competitive players still didn't like about Brawl and that's when I came up with this thread. Please let me know if I missed anything in this list.

Without further adieu here's a list of everything people didn't like about Brawl competitively and how I plan on fixing it:
RANDOM TRIPING:
- Remove it altogether. Players will still be able to trip on banana peals though.

OVER POWERED META KNIGHT:
- Severely nerf Meta Knight down to his Smash 4 level. Smash 4 and Balanced Brawl will be used as a main reference to keep him balanced.
- Or remove Meta Knight from the character select screen altogether including from the random select. This shouldn't be too different from competitive vBrawl sense Meta Knights already widely banned.

UNBALANCED:
Remember no game will be perfectly balanced. Removing or severely nerfing Meta Knight will help balance out the game a lot. Maybe we'll incorporating some small balances similarly to what the mod Balanced Brawl has done to help balance the game out, but we would prefer to keep it as close to vanilla Brawl as possible so only minor changes if any.

IT WASN'T LIKE MELEE:
- If this is such a big issue to you go play Melee or download Project M here instead.

NO MEWTWO, ROY, PICHU, OR DR. MARIO:
- Dr. Mario alternate costumes for Mario.
- Pichu alternate costumes for Pikachu.
- Roy alternate costumes for Marth.
- Mewtwo alternate costume for Lucario.
Remember adding new characters or semi clones will change the game too much from vanilla Brawl. Adding clones wouldn't follow Brawls no direct clone philosophy. I would prefer for it to stay as close to vBrawl as possible instead of making it like Melee of Project M.

TOO SLOW:
- Remember were trying to keep this as close to vBrawl as possible. This isn't Melee, Project M or even Brawl Minus, It's Brawl.
- Maybe include automatic teching? preferably not.

INFINITIES:
- Fix it similarly to how Balanced Brawl did it here.
- Or make it so the infinities are still possible, but change up some character stats making them extremely hard (almost impossible) to preform and make it so other characters can break out of them more easily. Kinda like how Smash 4 infinites aren't as devastating, but still possible.

LEDGE INVINCIBILITY:
- Make ledge invincibility only apply the first time. every time after that without touching the ground the player won't be invincible. Similar to how Smash 4 ledges worked.
- Or it that doesn't work I'll implement what Balance Brawl did here with planking prevention.

WATER STALLING:
- Remove water altogether. Thus making some stages more competitive friendly.
- Or make the water like it is in Smash 4 where you drown more easily.
- Or if that doesn't work I'll implement what Balanced Brawl did here with planking prevention.

STAGES:
- Replace 75m, Mario Bros., or Rumble Falls with the Wifi Training Room stage.
- Remove most if not all stage hazards, bosses, stupid stage transitions, etc. on all stages.
- Wario Ware Inc - removed mini games.
- Remove stage transitions on Castle Siege.
- Remove stage transitions on Pokemon Stadium 2.
- Remove F-Zero vehicles on Port Town Areo Dive.
- Possibly fix up Delfino Plaza to be more legal friendly.
- Possibly raise the upper blast line on Halberd.
- Remove tilting on Lylat Cruise.
- Remove all Hazards on Norfair.
- Make the water like it is in Smash 4 or remove it altogether.
- Maybe a few more changes to the stages to make them more tournament friendly.

GLITCHES:
- Every game will have a certain extent of glitches, but I'll do my best to patch them.

Remember this list may not be complete, please let me know if there is anything I could do better while still keeping close to the Brawl formula.
 

Strong-Arm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
833
Location
Liberty, Missouri
NNID
stormfury
3DS FC
2836-0207-2430
I like the sounds of this. The main thing here is slight edits may go a long way. First of all either buff everyone or nerf the hell out of Meta but dont cut him out completely. Also add L canceling if possible. For individual character balance, try to incorporate feedback from the boards. Also this "mod" needs a name or it'll be forgotten rather quickly. I will help out as much as I can.
 

TimSin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
62
Location
Walnut, California
I'm actually wanting to make a game like this too. The thing is, I don't know how to alter movesets or remove tripping. Great job on the list though.
 

Respect38

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Messages
156
While I'm not sure the character and stage changes are at all at the heart of vBrawl, [at lot of what you're intending to do to some of the characters disconnects the game from Brawl, for better or for worse] I do think that, if you're going to go through with that mindset, I have a few thoughts and questions.

While I would have to see what characters would be used to counterpick to Castle Siege [1st stop], why not just have the transformation, but have it transform between the 1st and 3rd stops? If it would make the stage worthless for the characters that counterpick to it, though, I would understand not doing so.

Could it not just be done that Ice and Flying are removed, since those two are the ones that have elements that completely change the physics of the game? The other two may be strange, but not stage-breaking strange. [same with Pokemon Stadium 1's Fire and Rock]

Edit: By that, I mean that Fire and Rock deserve to be removed, not that they change the physics.

Are you going to lock off the bottom of Spear Pillar to prevent circle camping?

What are you going to do with Shadow Moses Island? Perhaps have the bottom parts be permanent walls and have the top permanently not have the walls?

I don't think you should replace Rumble Falls--if you simply remove the two strong spikes [top and bottom of stage] and the horizontal row of spikes [kind of near the top] and remove the speeding up feature of the map, that it comes a much better map to play on, and certainly not deserving of being completely replaced. [Hell, if those two things were fixed, I'm not sure why the stage wouldn't be fine to be a counterpick in Doubles at that point]

Are you going to take away the fish on Summit? I feel like the purpose of that fish is to be a hazard to people who land off-stage in the water--and that seems to be a legitimate purpose. Perhaps to just remove the hitbox on its tail would be sufficient to make this hazard fair?

Are you going to change Rainbow Cruise to be non-moving? While I get the idea, I feel like a bit of the purpose of this stage as a counterpick in Brawl is part to do with the moving nature of the stage, and taking that away takes away what makes this stage unique.
 
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clydeaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
320
Location
Utah
While I'm not sure the character and stage changes are at all at the heart of vBrawl, [at lot of what you're intending to do to some of the characters disconnects the game from Brawl, for better or for worse] I do think that, if you're going to go through with that mindset, I have a few thoughts and questions.

While I would have to see what characters would be used to counterpick to Castle Siege [1st stop], why not just have the transformation, but have it transform between the 1st and 3rd stops? If it would make the stage worthless for the characters that counterpick to it, though, I would understand not doing so.

Could it not just be done that Ice and Flying are removed, since those two are the ones that have elements that completely change the physics of the game? The other two may be strange, but not stage-breaking strange. [same with Pokemon Stadium 1's Fire and Rock]

Are you going to lock off the bottom of Spear Pillar to prevent circle camping?

What are you going to do with Shadow Moses Island? Perhaps have the bottom parts be permanent walls and have the top permanently not have the walls?

I don't think you should replace Rumble Falls--if you simply remove the two strong spikes [top and bottom of stage] and the horizontal row of spikes [kind of near the top] and remove the speeding up feature of the map, that it comes a much better map to play on, and certainly not deserving of being completely replaced. [Hell, if those two things were fixed, I'm not sure why the stage wouldn't be fine to be a counterpick in Doubles at that point]

Are you going to take away the fish on Summit? I feel like the purpose of that fish is to be a hazard to people who land off-stage in the water--and that seems to be a legitimate purpose. Perhaps to just remove the hitbox on its tail would be sufficient to make this hazard fair?

Are you going to change Rainbow Cruise to be non-moving? While I get the idea, I feel like a bit of the purpose of this stage as a counterpick in Brawl is part to do with the moving nature of the stage, and taking that away takes away what makes this stage unique.
I'm still really new to the Brawl modifying scene. I'm still figuring out how mods even work so I won't be able to make any promises.

I would like to improve most if not all multilayer stage so as to remove all hazards and make them as competitive legal friendly without changing the stage completely.

I would like to keep the stages close to their counterparts, although I might replace some non competitive stages with a popular mod stage from Project M, Brawl +, Brawl -, etc.
for example:
Temple (Melee) - Temple (Brawl -)/ Skyloft (PM)

Distant Planet (Brawl) - Distant Planet (PM)

Rumble Falls (Brawl) - Rumble Falls (PM)

Green Hill Zone (Brawl) - Green Hill Zone (PM)

Norfair (Brawl) - Norfair (PM)

Skyworld (Brawl) - Skyworld (PM)
 
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Respect38

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Messages
156
If you are still engaged in this project, perhaps another thing to do would be to see if there's a way to allow a player to always spawn in as Solo Climber? After Xanadu banned Ice Climbers, it would allow Xanadu [and any other anti-Icies tournament] to leave Sopo legal and not completely do away with Popo.

I imagine getting the game to spawn you with certain conditions might be not too difficult if the same thing could be done that is done to ZSS and Shiek, for example. I imagine the most difficult part would be making Nana despawn, or not spawn at all.
 

clydeaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
320
Location
Utah
If you are still engaged in this project, perhaps another thing to do would be to see if there's a way to allow a player to always spawn in as Solo Climber? After Xanadu banned Ice Climbers, it would allow Xanadu [and any other anti-Icies tournament] to leave Sopo legal and not completely do away with Popo.

I imagine getting the game to spawn you with certain conditions might be not too difficult if the same thing could be done that is done to ZSS and Shiek, for example. I imagine the most difficult part would be making Nana despawn, or not spawn at all.
I haven't worked on anything at all, this was just an idea I had and wanted to see if people would like to try it out.

After thinking about it I would compare this Modification more to Melee 20XX Tournament Edition and Melee 20XX Training Hack Pack that Balanced Brawl or Melee: SD Remix. Mostly because I don't want to change little to none of the default character stats and hardly anything to the game engine itself (except tripping), but I would love to include new content such as tournament friendly stages just like every Mod.

If possible accessible from the character select screen: Solo Popo (Ice Climbers), Zero Suit Samus, Shiek, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pokemon Trainer (pokemon switch off each stock).

Maybe even a few vanilla NPC characters such as Giga Bowser, Wario Man, Red Alloy, Blue Alloy, Green Alloy, Yellow Alloy, and maybe some boss characters too, however they wouldn't be selectable if tournament mode is on.
 

clydeaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
320
Location
Utah
I would love to add some competitive vanilla single player stages such as:
Online Practice Stage
Note: The stage is completely flat with a pair of edges on each side, similar to a larger Final Destination.


Midair Stadium / How to Play Video Stage / Pokemon Stadium 2 (without platforms and transitions)


The Jungle: Nuteral Stage section

The Battlefield Fortress: Nuteral Stage


Boss Battle: Ridley


The Research Facility II


Battleship Halberd Bridge
Note: The boss battle fills the whole SSE stage, Battleship Halberd Bridge.


Boss Battle: Meta Ridley


Tabuu's Residence
Note: similar to Final Destination.


Mario


Luigi
Note: A completely flat stage with no floating platforms. The only stage to resemble Final Destination.


Peach


Bowser


Yoshi
Note: Resembles the platform layout of Yoshi's Island (SSB).


Wario


Donkey Kong
Note: Somewhat resembles Kongo Jungle, but with extra platforms.


Diddy Kong


Link


Zelda


Ganondorf


Samus
Note: Resembles the platform layout of Planet Zebes.


Kirby
While it could be based on Dream Land, its layout is generic.


Meta Knight


King Dedede


Fox
Resembles the layout of Lylat Cruise, but with the thin platforms spread further out.


Falco


Pikachu


Pokémon Trainer
Note: Stage layout resembles Pokémon Stadium.


Lucario


Captain Falcon


Ness


Lucas


Ice Climbers


Marth


Ike


Mr. Game & Watch


Pit


Olimar


R.O.B.


Snake


Cave Stage
Note: this is a hacked version of the stage with Ice themed textures.


There are many more Subspace Emissary stages that I missed due to them being small sections of large stages. Please let me know if you have a picture of one of them that I missed.

Here are some neutral multi-player stages if they were frozen in time:
Pokemon Stadium 2 (Without Transitions)


WarioWare, Inc. (Without Transitions)


Standard PictoChat (Without transitions)

 

clydeaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
320
Location
Utah
Here are a few character changes that I would like to include in this mod (without changing the character select screens visual layout):

Mario:
- Mario
- Dr. Mario (change color) {Maybe}
- Yellow Alloy (hold R)​
Bowser:
- Bowser
- Giga Bowser (hold R)​
Wario:
- Wario
- [WarioWare] Wario* (change color)
- Wario Man (hold R)​
Zelda / Shiek:
- Zelda (select picture)
- Shiek* (select picture)
- Blue Alloy (hold R)​
Samus:
- Samus
- Zero Suit Samus* (Hold R)​
Ice Climbers:
- Ice Climbers
- Solo Popo* (hold R)​
Kirby:
- Kirby
- Green Alloy (hold R)​
Captain Falcon:
- Captain Falcon
- Red Alloy (hold R)​
Pokémon Trainer:
- Pokémon Trainer
- Squirtle* (select picture)
- Ivysaur* (select picture)
- Charizard* (select picture)​

Notes:
- New characters are in bold.
- Character that were still technically playable, but couldn't be picked normally on the character select screen have a an * next to it.
- Pokémon do not switch between stocks unless the Pokémon Trainer is selected (without selecting a specific Pokémon).
- Alternate character can only be selected by holding down R when selecting the character just like how Zero Suit Samus is selected.
 
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