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Toon's True Combo Throw

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

Smash Detective
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
3,969
Location
WinMelee, Australia
Intro.

Many people claim that Toon's reward for getting a grab is terrible. Many people seem to be completely unaware that Toon actually has a combo throw. His combo throw is U-throw. Primarily it combos directly into FH Uair against the right characters which can net you an impressive 21% all up with no pummels. I'll go through all the characters in a sec but I should explain a few things before you jump ahead:



Important Information

In order to show you what Toon is capable of, some of the things below won't be strictly guaranteed as they can be avoided by e.g. DIing the U-throw behind Toon. But to clarify, Toon is in fact capable of guaranteeing an Uair against many characters. I'll try to make this clear.
When testing all this I went about it in a certain order which is reflected below. To simplify what I did for the purposes of explaining, the first thing I'd look at is U-throw to FH Uair without DI behind Toon just to see if this would work against airdodge. If it did I'd check DJ or some character specific option which would sometimes be relevant. I then went on to check if DI behind Toon would allow the opponent to avoid the FH Uair (this time jumping backwards to follow DI obviously) within the percent range that it worked without DI. I then checked to see if I could get the Uair to connect against the DIing behind me by dashing backwards for two frames only after the U-throw before doing the FH Uair (so that's one frame to turn around and one frame of actual dashing; yes, this is difficult in practice, but because Toon's U-throw isn't weight dependant it will be the same timing every time regardless of the MU, so just learn the timing, buffer the 'dash back' out of the end of the U-throw, and time your FH so that you do it on the right frame, then use the A-stick to buffer your Uair during the jumpsquat frames).
Depending on how the opponent character faired, we would either end up with a guaranteed Uair within a certain percent range or they would always have a way to avoid it. If anything didn't work, e.g. trying to follow DI behind you with a FH Uair (no dash back) I'll leave it unsaid. If FH Uair covered DI behind and dash back FH Uair didn't extend the percent range, I did away with the dash back percent range as there is no point doing something more difficult for no reason.

I did my tests at 5% intervals to realistically save time. What this means is if you have an interval of e.g. 35 to 40%, all this means is it didn't work at 30% or 45%. For all we know, the true interval could be 31 to 44%, so try to keep this in mind, especially when you see smaller intervals of e.g. "30% only".

Note that the percents listed are just when the Uair connected directly before they could escape. It doesn't account for forcing airdodges and then outlasting those airdodges with Uair for example. There is much more that could be done, and this is just a starting point that may get updated later. Just because a character is labelled as 'immune' this doesn't necessarily mean we won't be able to get something that isn't a direct Uair hit.

I intend to update this post later to make things clearer among other things.

If you have any questions, ask below. Just don't ask where the Miis are; I might ask you the same question.



Toon's U-throw Combos

:4bayonetta:Bayo
35 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
45 to 50% dash back FH Uair.

:4bowser:Bowser
Immune.

:4bowserjr:Bowser Jr
35 to 65% FH Uair regardless of DI, no need for dash back FH Uair.

:4falcon:Captain Falcon
35 to 60% FH Uair (no DI behind),
45 to 55% dash back FH Uair.

:4charizard:Charizard
Immune.

:4darkpit:Dark Pit
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 35 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge, but DI behind will avoid it and dash FH Uair is too slow.

:4cloud:Cloud
35 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35% only FH Uair against DI behind airdodge (DI behind DJ will avoid it),
40 to 55% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge (DI behind DJ will avoid it until 50%).

:4cloud2:Cloud with Limit
35 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35 to 40% only FH Uair against DI behind airdodge (DI behind DJ will avoid it at 35% only),
40 to 55% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge (DI behind DJ will avoid it until 45%).

:4corrinf:Corrin
30% to 55% U-throw to FH Uair (no DI behind),
40 to 50% dash back FH Uair.

:4diddy:Diddy
35 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind),
45 to 50% dash back FH Uair.

:4dk:DK
35 to 60% FH Uair even if DK DI's behind unless he DJs in which case it starts at 40%, and if he DIs behind and DJs it ends at 50%.
45 to 55% dash back FH Uair.

:4drmario:Doctor Mario
30 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind) but it can be avoided by DIing behind and dash FH Uair is too slow. Technically immune.

:4duckhunt:Duck Hunt Duo
Immune.

:4falco:Falco
35 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind) but DI behind will avoid it and dash FH Uair is too slow. Technically immune.

:4fox:Fox
30 to 45% FH Uair (no DI behind),
45% only dash back FH Uair.

:4ganondorf:Ganon
30 to 60% FH Uair even if Ganon DI's behind unless he DI's behind and DJs away in which case it won't work.
40 to 60% dash back FH Uair.

:4greninja:Greninja
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 35% only FH Uair against airdodge, but it can be avoided by DIing behind.

:4myfriends:Ike
35 to 55% FH Uair even if Ike DI's behind (unless Ike DIs behind and DJs in which case it starts from 40%). No need for dash back FH Uair.

:4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff
25% only FH Uair regardless of DI. Can technically be avoided with rest, but the rest will miss so....

:4dedede:King Dedede
30 to 70% FH Uair (no DI behind),
30 to 60% FH Uair against DI behind,
40 to 70% dash back FH Uair.

:4kirby:Kirby
30 to 35% FH Uair regardless of DI.

:4link:Link
40 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind) (can go as low as 35% with airdodge), but it can be avoided by DIing behind and DJing. 40% only dash back FH Uair if they DI behind and airdodge. Technically immune.

:4littlemac:Little Mac
35 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35% only FH Uair against DI behind,
40 to 45% dash back FH Uair.

:4lucario:Lucario
35 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
40 to 45% FH Uair against DI behind, dash FH Uair is too slow.

:4lucas:Lucas
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 30 to 35% FH Uair against airdodge, but DI behind will avoid it.

:4lucina:Lucina
30 to 45% FH Uair regardless of DI, except if Lucina DIs behind and DJs then it starts at 35%.

:4luigi:Luigi
Immune.

:4mario:Mario
30 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind), but DI behind will avoid it and dash FH Uair is too slow. Technically immune.

:4marth:Marth
30 to 45% FH Uair regardless of DI, except if Marth DIs behind and DJs then it starts at 35%.

:4megaman:Mega Man
35 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35 to 50% FH Uair if they DI behind, dash FH Uair does no better.

:4metaknight:Meta Knight
35 to 45% FH Uair (no DI behind),
40 to 45% dash FH Uair.

:4mewtwo:Mewtwo
30 to 45% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35 to 45% FH Uair if Mewtwo DI's behind. No need for dash back FH Uair.

:4gaw:Mr Game & Watch
30 to 35% FH Uair (no DI behind),
30% only FH Uair if they DI behind.

:4ness:Ness
30% only FH Uair (no DI behind) which can be avoided by DIing behind, so technically immune.

:4olimar:Olimar
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 30% only FH Uair against airdodge which can be avoided by DIing behind.

:4pacman:Pac-Man
Immune.

:4palutena:Palutena
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 30 to 35% FH Uair against airdodge which can be avoided by DIing behind.

:4peach:Peach
Immune.

:4pikachu:Pikachu
30 to 35% FH Uair (no DI behind), but DI behind avoids it and dash FH Uair is too slow, so technically immune.

:4pit:Pit
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 35 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge, but DI behind will avoid it and dash FH Uair is too slow.

:4rob:R.O.B.
40 to 50% FH Uair regardless of DI (airdodge can be as low as 35%). No need for dash back FH Uair.

:4robinf:Robin
30 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind) if he airdodges otherwise 40% only if he DJs, but it can be avoided if he DI's behind and DJs, so technically immune.

:rosalina:Rosalina
Immune.

:4feroy:Roy
30 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
40 to 50% FH Uair if he DI's behind and DJs (airdodge will be as low as 30%), dash FH Uair will do no better.

:4ryu:Ryu
35 to 45% FH Uair (no DI behind) if he tries to airdodge or DJ but only 40 to 45% if he does a FA or TS,
35 to 40% dash back FH Uair if he DIs behind and airdodges but it will not work at all if he DI's behind and DJ's or does FA or TS, so technically immune.

:4samus:Samus
Immune.

:4sheik:Sheik
35 to 40% FH Uair (no DI behind). If she DI's behind though, dash back FH Uair isn't quick enough. So technically immune.

:4shulk:Shulk Vanilla
35 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge (ends at 45% against DJ),
40 to 50% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge but can be avoided entirely by DI behind DJ, so technically immune.

:4shulk:Shulk Jump
30 to 65% FH Uair (no DI behind),
35 to 50% FH Uair for DI behind (can go as low as 30% if Shulk doesn't DJ and as high as 60% if he does),
40 to 65% dash back FH Uair.

:4shulk:Shulk Speed
35 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge (ends at 45% against DJ),
40 to 50% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge but can be avoided entirely by DI behind DJ, so technically immune.

:4shulk:Shulk Shield
75 to 100% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge (ends at 95% against DJ)
85 to 100% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge but can be avoided entirely by DI behind DJ, so technically immune.

:4shulk:Shulk Buster
30 to 55% FH Uair (no DI behind),
30 to 45% FH Uair for DI behind,
40 to 55% dash back FH Uair.

:4wiremac:Hulk Smash
25 to 35% FH Uair (no DI behind) against airdodge (ends at 30% against DJ),
30 to 35% dash back FH Uair against DI behind airdodge but can be avoided entirely by DI behind DJ, so technically immune.

:4sonic:Sonic
Immune.

:4tlink:Toon
Immune.

:4villager:Villager
Immune.

:4wario:Wario
40 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind), can only be avoided by DIing behind and DJing away. Technically immune.

:4wiifit:Wii Fit
Immune.

:4yoshi:Yoshi
Immune.

:4zelda:Zelda
Immune only by DJing, otherwise 30 to 35% FH Uair against airdodge, but DI behind will avoid it.

:4zss:Zero Suit Samus
35 to 50% FH Uair (no DI behind),
40 to 45% Dash FH Uair.
 
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