Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #2: Olimar

[Weruop]

if u wanna get punished, go right ahead and d smash xD

edit: i thought the post u made with praxis giving u advice was from jamn. now i know its real..

 

[Chip.]

How would I get punished if I'm across the screen from you?

OMG guys, Praxis also gave me this amazing edgeguard idea that his Peach does but Toon Link can do except better =D Yay yay! Rejoiceeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

[copacetic]

TL takes way too long to recover. Too floaty. So while we slowly float back to the stage, olimar (or at least the one I play), has more than enough time to dump the other colors and pull out the purples

 

[Weruop]

xD ah well. the next tmie we play should be interesting.
also im assuming it involves bombs, and i think i can get around it lol

 

[Do or Die]

Uh...First of all: Good olimar mains dont get gimped that often. Maybe in some of the wifi sites that you play on or maybe even on AiB but still they rarely get gimped.

Second: As far as killing goes, Olimar has a MUCH easier time killing than we do. Killing for toonlink is a big problem and most toonlink already know that.

And Thirdly: Yes i will agree with you, toonlinks projectiles are amazing but they aren't a game changing factor in this match up especially since olimar can out camp toonlink.

Also...purple are annoying as ****. I have learned to powershield them since i play against Finos olimar pretty much everyday offline.
Here is an old tourney vid of how annoying purples used to be and how much of a nuisance they really can be to any character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wM208AHGIo

Not to sound like i am attacking you but if you actually play a good olimar, your eyes will be opened to a WHOLE-nother perspective.

Im sure one of these olimars are willing to play you.

I suppose you're right, most of the Olimars I've played kinda sucked or didn't really know how to play him. Watched the video, I see what you mean, lol .

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

Lol... if you seriously think this... you're a *******.

Your dsmash is easily tech'able / DI'able... I've done it many times.

The fact that you think olimar uses grab releases tells me how much you know of olimar XD


After 30 seconds into the match you realize an arrow always comes out when tlink lands.
Zair IS really good in the match-up... however if not perfectly spaced olimar's fsmash will trade hits with it.
If you aerial dodge zair, it will usually get the pikmin off you. Also if the pikmin is latched on your back side you can JCthrow the bomb forwards and it won't explode.
I wouldn't say olimar advantaged. grabs are next to useless not having grab armor and tlink being able to quickdraw. Landing one if nice, though not spamable by any means.
And yes, olimar has a lot easier time killing... there's at least a 50% difference in the time tlink is in kill range against olimar, and the time olimar is in kill range against tlink. Past the fact that both have to fight through spam makes it difficult to get those in for tlink... it's a bit easier for olimar since about 1/2 of his moveset is a kill move...

Planking is in-effective against olimar. Olimar's grab box reaches under the stage, so he can pull you through the stage (like scaring the ledge) with a grab. Also his fsmash hitbox lasts for about 36 frames... in other words, he can fsmash off the ledge and hit you. Dtilt also stage spikes on some stages.


I stopped reading here... don't listen to dabuz... ever.


Knowing what tlinks downsmash does... why would we EVER approach tlink at the edge below 25%?
Also, here's is the problem with your plank to dsmash strategy. You assume olimar just stands there like a moron while you aerial dodge into the ground and dsmash.
SHAD - aerial dodge into the ground and then buffer a move so that it becomes available on the first possible frame. Of course you have to buffer the move during the aerial dodge... which for tlink starts on frame 4. The first hit on your downsmash starts on frame 9. 13 frames before you can instant hit your move... assuming a perfect buffer, and disregarding airtime (I'm being quite generous). That leaves you vulnerable from frames 5-12.
Every single attack olimar has can punish this move (with according frame data from the olimar forums). The only moves slow enough to not be able to punish this would be a grounded tether (which is a horrible idea in the first place).

Again, this is assuming a PERFECT buffer AND direguarding airtime... you think you're really going to pull this off?

Zair to dsmash and grab release (lol grabbing and then doing a grab release) won't work either.

Also... doesn't the same go for killing apply to tlink? Your best kill moves (to the best of my knowledge) are usmash and utilt. dsmash and fsmash and uair are killers.... but rules apply to our purple uthrow.


From what I hear about socal olimars.... richbrown is super pro... though you *******s never give us vids <.<
I'll agree to that match-up... 55-45 olimar to 50-50

usmash to dsmash is a spot dodge punisher... and to my knowledge tlink can avoid it. Your spot dodge is 22 frames long. Our dsmash will hit you at your vulnerability by frame 20... sade fact is... if you spot dodge on the EXACT frame that our dsmash comes out it will still hit you since the hitbox lasts for 28 frames. The Upsmash lasting for 26 frames. The fsmash lasting for 36 frames.... either way our c-stick outlasts your dodge ._. It's kinda gay =-/

For the record... snakes utilt is an olimar upsmash wannabe (hitbox is bigger and kills faster).


Truefax... that's why aggressive tlink does better in this match-up.


You REALLY don't know olimar Lol!. Olimar upsmash is BIGGER than snakes hitbox AND KILLS FASTER. Seriously... you sound like you're blowing wind out you ***... so just stop talking XD.

Purple pikmin usmash's hitbox reaches about an olimar and a half distance INFRONT of olimar and about 2 and 1/4 olimars above him (width wise) and 1 olimar's height above him (length wise) in otherwords... olimar's upsmash is about as big as two snakes put together.


14%
blue pikmin are 12%


Shielding when you land is a bad idea. It's when your opponent lands is the safest time to grab someone. Landing + shield = grabbed. You should always quickdraw your landings so you can't get grabbed.

I love how people post links of some of their best players against not good players. No offense to zori... but I would not base what a good olimar looks like off of zori. At all. Also that vid is REALLY OLD. lol.

Oh... I didn't read this yet XD rofl.

NO NO NO. Don't listen to this kid... he's been wrong on just about every ****ing thing he has said... omg. rofl.... I really hope you guys do take his advice... less tlinks for us to worry about XD.
IMHO though I would rather help you guys so you can help us.

//wall text

Sorry, I saw so many things wrong with this thread I had to go through it all. To be honest I think the match-up is near even. Aggressive toon link will fair a deal better against olimar than a camp spammy tlink, but even then it's hard on both sides (so I've heard).
For the past month I've played with MJG almost daily... and it's a really *****y match-up.

The thing I hate most about this match-up is that tlink can shield grab most of olimar's smashes. Also aerial approaches are limited at best, though still useful (for olimar). In the end, I think olimar's strengths and toonlink's strengths match each other in varying ways. Olimar can kill spam and combo, tlink can outprioritize rush and gimp.

IMHO it's a very even match-up... and one of the most annoying match-ups in brawl.


~Fino

I stopped reading this thread after I saw your post. Way to end this. =D

 

[TLMSheikant]

Added more stuff to the summary .

 

[TheJerm]

Hyro beat fino.. in tournament, recently.. cased closed. Its a wrap.. hyro is the best TL =]

 

[Dabuz]

but fino isn't even one of the top 3 olimars...

 

[TheJerm]

Haha dabuz, I was just joking because of all the walls of text fino posted.

 

[MJG]

Lol fino sucks against toonlink...we used to go even but not anymore ^_^

 

[copacetic]

I have no idea why, but from playing three olimars last friday, zair->nair wasn't really hitting, but zair-> ftilt or dash or fsmash hit almost every time. eventually they just started jumping out of it (or icylight did after half a dozen games at least) which puts them in an area to be punished

 

[TLMSheikant]

Changed the matchup ratio to 55-45 Olimar. Basically its even but means TL goes through a little more trouble than Oli.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Fighting Olimar on is a bad idea. He can easily camp under the platform once the stage changes and he's able to get more purples.

Why would anyone chose that stage!? That's a horrible stage to pick for TL.

 

[G-Dub]

lol. necro-bump.

 

[WindMajor]

Discussing Olimar wouldn't be a bad idea....

But maybe after we discuss Sonic in that one thread. D: