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Toon Link Match Up Discussion: Metaknight!

KT Kasrani

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,177
Location
Philadelphia, Pa
Hes better than us

Me n Ensis tlkn bout the MU:

[5/16/2011 2:28:29 AM] </3 KTizzle: i se ibomb alot in hte MU
[5/16/2011 2:29:10 AM] </3 KTizzle: and grab mk alot
[5/16/2011 2:29:13 AM] Averil Morrisette: o thats good...I should probably use it more. This thing I liked to do in 09 was iBomb>Zair..like ibomb over their shield and zair them..stupid but yea
[5/16/2011 2:29:21 AM] Averil Morrisette: grab a lot? hmmm...I see
[5/16/2011 2:29:31 AM] Averil Morrisette: I grab them a fair amount but that makes sense since they expect you to attack
[5/16/2011 2:29:42 AM] </3 KTizzle: they dont expect to get grabbed
[5/16/2011 2:29:43 AM] </3 KTizzle: yea
[5/16/2011 2:29:45 AM] Averil Morrisette: yea
[5/16/2011 2:29:55 AM] </3 KTizzle: adn use jab to get them off of u
[5/16/2011 2:30:00 AM] </3 KTizzle: or mix up jab to grab
[5/16/2011 2:30:06 AM] Averil Morrisette: are you the type of TL to try to grab them as they are coming down from the air? or just running at them and grabbing?
[5/16/2011 2:30:10 AM] Averil Morrisette: I assume its both since you said to grab a lot and ok
[5/16/2011 2:30:20 AM] Averil Morrisette: can MK SL you if we jab?
[5/16/2011 2:30:47 AM] </3 KTizzle: if they are approaching me from the ground i shoot grounded arrows to see if they will shield or jump
[5/16/2011 2:30:56 AM] </3 KTizzle: if they keep shielding then u jus grab
[5/16/2011 2:31:10 AM] Averil Morrisette: yea I do that (not the first thing you said though)
[5/16/2011 2:31:11 AM] Averil Morrisette: but thats really good
[5/16/2011 2:31:30 AM] Averil Morrisette: something domo started doing against me when I kept doing
[5/16/2011 2:31:31 AM] Averil Morrisette: arrow>grab
[5/16/2011 2:31:33 AM] Averil Morrisette: was
[5/16/2011 2:31:36 AM] Averil Morrisette: fair'ing me instead
[5/16/2011 2:31:41 AM] Averil Morrisette: made me so mad lol
[5/16/2011 2:32:12 AM] </3 KTizzle: and idk if mk can SL if we jab
[5/16/2011 2:32:25 AM] </3 KTizzle: never happened to me so i dont thinkk so
[5/16/2011 2:32:40 AM] Averil Morrisette: jab is like frame 6 so hmmm...we might be able to get away with that
[5/16/2011 2:32:49 AM] Averil Morrisette: and if they keep shielding, we can always cancel the jab and grab
[5/16/2011 2:33:01 AM] </3 KTizzle: yea thats wat i do
[5/16/2011 2:33:15 AM] </3 KTizzle: or even if they get hit jab to grab
[5/16/2011 2:33:48 AM] Averil Morrisette: do you use JC Up Smash?
[5/16/2011 2:34:12 AM] </3 KTizzle: no
[5/16/2011 2:34:28 AM] Averil Morrisette: hmmm..I might start doing it...too lazy to learn a lot of new **** in brawl though
[5/16/2011 2:34:30 AM] Averil Morrisette: TL can
[5/16/2011 2:34:54 AM] Averil Morrisette: up smash MK if he uses glide attack on his shield with JC up Smash...I grab MKs after that but if they catch on, I get down smashed
[5/16/2011 2:35:05 AM] </3 KTizzle: lol yea
[5/16/2011 2:35:32 AM] </3 KTizzle: i always go for dthrow uair for easy kills tho
[5/16/2011 2:35:55 AM] Averil Morrisette: yea
[5/16/2011 2:36:01 AM] Averil Morrisette: I think that MK is easier to handle when he is in the air
[5/16/2011 2:36:03 AM] Averil Morrisette: and since he moves slow, we can sort of tag him randomly
[5/16/2011 2:36:16 AM] Averil Morrisette: I really like the jab and grab thing though
[5/16/2011 2:36:20 AM] Averil Morrisette: I was talkin to jerm about this and
[5/16/2011 2:36:30 AM] Averil Morrisette: he said we should try to fight MK at his speed and some other crap
[5/16/2011 2:36:31 AM] Averil Morrisette: then I realized
[5/16/2011 2:36:42 AM] Averil Morrisette: he basically said don't play TL..which would be hard vs MK
[5/16/2011 2:36:44 AM] Averil Morrisette: lol
[5/16/2011 2:36:55 AM] </3 KTizzle: lol
[5/16/2011 2:37:06 AM] Averil Morrisette: I like
[5/16/2011 2:37:10 AM] Averil Morrisette: halberd/PS1 vs MK
[5/16/2011 2:38:09 AM] </3 KTizzle: o and i lik to hit mk wit bair lik in the miiddle of his body so u end up behind him
[5/16/2011 2:38:21 AM] </3 KTizzle: u can bair, jab, grab then
[5/16/2011 2:38:28 AM] Averil Morrisette: you mean
[5/16/2011 2:38:33 AM] Averil Morrisette: cross over MK with bair
[5/16/2011 2:38:35 AM] Averil Morrisette: land
[5/16/2011 2:38:36 AM] Averil Morrisette: and jab
[5/16/2011 2:38:40 AM] Averil Morrisette: ?
[5/16/2011 2:42:36 AM] </3 KTizzle: my bad
[5/16/2011 2:43:18 AM] Averil Morrisette: its all good
[5/16/2011 2:43:53 AM] </3 KTizzle: its lik u hit mk wit bair and they pop up in front of u but u land behind him and u can jus jab
[5/16/2011 2:44:40 AM] </3 KTizzle: ur jus usin bair wen ur lik in the middle of his body
[5/16/2011 2:46:18 AM] Averil Morrisette: o
[5/16/2011 2:46:22 AM] Averil Morrisette: so you actually have to hit him
[5/16/2011 2:46:23 AM] </3 KTizzle: ol idk its hard to explain
[5/16/2011 2:46:34 AM] Averil Morrisette: I think I got it
[5/16/2011 2:46:46 AM] Averil Morrisette: as long as you mean that he has to be hit and take damage from it right?
[5/16/2011 2:47:10 AM] </3 KTizzle: yea but if he shields u got enuf time to shield
[5/16/2011 2:47:30 AM] </3 KTizzle: its lik bair fast fall behind him to w/e
[5/16/2011 2:47:45 AM] </3 KTizzle: well npt w/e bbut u get wat uim sayin
[5/16/2011 2:48:58 AM] </3 KTizzle: wat do u do vs mk offstage?
[5/16/2011 2:50:17 AM] Averil Morrisette: oh thats cool
[5/16/2011 2:50:18 AM] Averil Morrisette: and
[5/16/2011 2:50:25 AM] Averil Morrisette: you mean when I am off stage as well right? lol
[5/16/2011 2:50:48 AM] Averil Morrisette: I feel like that is my best attribute in that MU
[5/16/2011 2:50:54 AM] Averil Morrisette: not getting gimped as often
[5/16/2011 2:51:34 AM] Averil Morrisette: it happened for the first time in a LONG time vs M2K for me though ...I had just been ***** by domo in LFs and he wanted me to fight m2k when I was already frustrated..then I got gimped lol but yea, I feel like I recover well vs mK
[5/16/2011 2:52:15 AM] </3 KTizzle: yea. i always jus keep a bomb in my hand jus in case
[5/16/2011 2:57:24 AM] Averil Morrisette: yea
[5/16/2011 2:57:41 AM] Averil Morrisette: when I started messin around with ledge snapping (idk if you do that)
[5/16/2011 2:57:50 AM] Averil Morrisette: I found it useful for when MK is about to rush you down when he is still on stage
[5/16/2011 2:57:53 AM] Averil Morrisette: like
[5/16/2011 2:58:11 AM] Averil Morrisette: MK can hit you sometimes when you are using up since you are vulnerable on TLs hate
[5/16/2011 2:58:13 AM] Averil Morrisette: and
[5/16/2011 2:58:15 AM] Averil Morrisette: if you ledge snap
[5/16/2011 2:58:23 AM] Averil Morrisette: you are far away and you won't get stage spiked
[5/16/2011 2:58:26 AM] Averil Morrisette: thats more of a mix up though
[5/16/2011 2:58:44 AM] </3 KTizzle: o
[5/16/2011 2:59:20 AM] </3 KTizzle: i also lik to jump off the ledge and immediate ibomb if a mk is recovering under me
[5/16/2011 2:59:30 AM] </3 KTizzle: they always upb into the bomb everytime
[5/16/2011 3:01:39 AM] Averil Morrisette: yea!
[5/16/2011 3:01:43 AM] Averil Morrisette: that always seems to hit them
[5/16/2011 3:04:19 AM] </3 KTizzle: o and i learned somethin from u to
[5/16/2011 3:04:30 AM] </3 KTizzle: if ur cornered jsu run right past them
[5/16/2011 3:04:40 AM] </3 KTizzle: lol so simple but i woulda never thought of it
[5/16/2011 3:07:28 AM] Averil Morrisette: oh yea that makes sense
[5/16/2011 3:07:35 AM] Averil Morrisette: I find that easier to do with a bomb in hand
[5/16/2011 3:07:35 AM] Averil Morrisette: since
[5/16/2011 3:07:39 AM] Averil Morrisette: they expect you to throw it
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
Random notes I take when I fight MKs.

DSmash can be punished OoS with a grab if we're facing MK, and if the DSmash isn't charged or perfectly spaced.

If powershielded, you can punish with a Nair or a Bair if you're close enough.

FSmash and Glide Attack can be punished with grab as long as they aren't charged or well spaced. Going into detail with Glide Attack, they can spotdodge before your grab comes out if they do a low gliding attack.

Like Ensis said above me, alternatively, you can punish Glide Attack OoS with a JC USmash.

Metaknight's Nair and Dair, if spaced improperly, can be punished with Nair or Bair.

Metaknight can UAir us between pogo hits, so move that DAir.

Metaknight can DAir us after a low % DThrow, and a low % UTilt. Basically, don't follow up with the '08 DThrow Utilt Bair Bair combo, UNLESS you shield directly after your DThrow or UTilt.

Metaknight likes to use Shuttle Loop and such. Moves that can quickly punish a shielded/powershielded ground SL would be Bair, Nair, and UAir[?]. If you have a bomb in hand, bombs will work too.

In the air, Meteknight might try to aerial SL you. iBomb is always a good option if you time it right, and as a more risky/flashy option, I've seen DAir to work a few times. Just make sure to always always watch out for this.

Punishing Nado is difficult, but if you're grounded, just shield the whole thing. If you're sure that you can punish because he spaced poorly at the end of it, punish it. If you're unsure if you can punish, DON'T PUNISH. Just play it safe and run away.

When MK is on the ledge trying to approach, he'll use a variety of moves to try to safely get back in. What always works for me is to keep him pressured, but at the same time, stay defensive. Throw bombs from a safe distance and use shields if you find yourself close to the ledge. A troll solution for MKs on the ledge would be to keep them there, so they can exceed the ledge grab limit. :troll:

Gimpaknight is the most annoying thing ever off stage. Rule of thumb: Extra Damage is always better than loss of a stock. Also, expect to get stage spiked frequently, seeing as MK is such a broken piece of ****. With that in mind, whenever you think you can get stage spiked, try to tech. It's like if you're trying to predict Lucario's DAir while under the stage. This has worked for me numerous times when I throw out an attack, and MK disregards it and slams me to the stage. Just mash the tech button as your attack is out incase you get outprioritized or something.



I like Castle Siege against MK because the transformations help us with our poor ledge game, and because it gives us a lot of space to work with.

I like Delfino Plaza as well just due to personal preference (water spikes!)
 

MJG

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Location
In Kokomo Circle Camping with Shadow1pj
I wouldn't recommend Castle Siege at all tbh (Especially because of the 1st and MAINLY the 2nd transformation).

Also, TL can punish MK's nair (even if they full hop it) with bair and nair. Idk about dair though.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Castle Siege is one of my favorite stages, and it works for me. Both of those stages are personal preference.
 

southpaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
189
Location
NY, and CA
3DS FC
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so kingtoon what did you do to get jtails to game 3? like how did you land kills or not get gimped or w/e?
 

G-Dub

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Wasting away: Inwood FL
While MK is in nado, i like too: Zair twards the top of the nado, FF Nair into the top of the nado (this usually strikes MK twice), raising Bair, or Dair from above it. Also, ive had success hitting MK out of nado with arrows (must strike it high). But the most reliable punish is simply having a bomb ready.
When he's off the stage, i like to use ledge grab invulnerability and Bair/UAir if he's above me, and if he's recovering low, bomb to dair (used with discression) is suprisingly reliable to get an unexpected kill.
Those are just a few notable statagys i like to implement vs. :metaknight:
I also like to use Oos footstools in this match more than many MUs.
 

MJG

Smash Hero
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
5,712
Location
In Kokomo Circle Camping with Shadow1pj
Something that helps in this MU (it applies to a lot of characters actually) is the fact that you can always go for the ledge and be safe if MK is already on the ledge. 99% of the time, the opponent is going to hop off of the ledge to try and attack you. Just go towards the ledge and you will grab the ledge and gain invincibility as the opponent jumps off of the ledge.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
There were a couple of things that I saw in that match that I would like to mention, but I'll do it in a sec.

By the way good job, KT.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
apparently the 2nd game was from LF (that one was winner semis) so KT actually lost game 2 with TL on some other stage.
 
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