Toon Link Hate?

Swamp Sensei

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Out of all of the characters revealed so far, Toon Link has received the most backlash.

This is very sad and frankly, infuriating at times.

The hate seems to stem from a unreasonable dislike of clone characters.

Do you think this hatred is justified? If not, what do you do to combat this problem?
 

O Dog

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Honestly, Toon Link cloning Link makes more logical sense than having Ganondorf cloning Captain Falcon. If anything, they need to overhaul Ganondorf's moveset completely and utilize his sword more.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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I think it's totally justified. I hate clones, and I hate the way Toon Link looks.
 

Ember Reaper

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I'm gonna say no in most cases. He's a great character, with awesome potential. He's just a clone though. If he had his own moveset people would definitely hate less.
 

TumblrFamous

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People need to understand that moveset isn't what makes Toon Link Toon Link. It's his style of gameplay. Most people who play him effectively, like myself, use his solid ability to camp to outwit and outlast opponents. Then go for his great combo and aerial attacks once racked up enough. Toon Link can do this far better than Link, who should be more of an attacker instead of a "racker" (I made up a word to rhyme, that's how good I am). He also brings one of the best personalities to the game. It's not a necessity, but some people would rather play a goofy prankster kid than a somber hero. But that's my opinion.

People need to understand he's not a direct copy-paste clone of a Link. He's not like Young Link, who was basically Link, just lighter and faster. Toon Link is that too, but he actually has untapped potential that makes him so much more different than his realistic counterpart. He's a perfect example on how you should make a clone: a character with a similar moveset, but different enough to make both characters different to play as.
 

CrossoverMan

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I personally think clone characters add so much depth to the gameplay. Hell, I wouldn't mind if every new character revealed was a clone. :eek: I'm easily satisfied. :rolleyes:
 

MasterOfKnees

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Meh, people dislike him because he's the cloniest of clones. I don't mind him, at least he looks more unique than say Young Link, and many people like him too, so I don't mind him.
 

Tweezer Salad

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Already dont like that he's a clone again, but I really hate the fact that he seems to be featured in every other picture on the website since he's been announced.

SHOW SOMEBODY ELSE!
 

Curious Villager

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I agree with Falkoopa, Sakurai doesn't care, so why should I? Hell I've pretty much gotten used to people hating whatever character I like that I really don't give a **** of what people think of them. They are butthurt because he's back? Whoop dee fricken doo. I for one am happy that he's back and that's good enough for me. ;)

@Tweezer Salad. Oh chill out he's only been in 7 pictures ever since he was first announced out of 26 as of today.
 

LoneKonWolf

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I believe Falkopa said it the best, if sakurai doesn't give a care, we shouldn't either
plus I'll never understand why he gets all this hate, he was probably one of the best characters in brawl, plus his physics worked great in the game too, I'm glad that he is back and I love his new design (though not as much of brawl)
just because he is a clone doesn't mean he is exactly like link
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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What is this bull**** about only caring if Sakurai cares? Are you in a cult? What the **** kind of argument is that? Let's apply it to other areas:

Sakurai doesn't care that tripping sucks: I won't care either!

Sakurai doesn't care about DLC: I won't care either!

Sakurai doesn't care about adding my most wanted newcomer: I won't care either!
 

Curious Villager

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Why should I give a rat's ass about whether there are a few butthurt morons hating a confirmed character I like? Especially when I know that in the long run this character is going to stay into the game and no amount of bawing and crying is going to make Sakurai change plans and remove said character from the game anyway. So why should I care?

Haters gonna hate I'd say.
 

LaniusShrike

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I am glad to see him back, but very disappointed that they didn't choose to differentiate him more. Yes, he plays differently than Link already, sure, but I think the character deserves to really be separated from his more serious buddy. Adult Link moves like a stalwart elven defender, while TL should be throwing his entire body into every heroically reckless blow.

Also, different specials would have really showcased the wide array of items that can be found throughout the LoZ titles.

In any case, I get why some people hate on TL, but I'm totally cool with him. Just a bit miffed at the designers for not fully representing TL to the TLest.
 

FalKoopa

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What is this bull**** about only caring if Sakurai cares? Are you in a cult? What the **** kind of argument is that? Let's apply it to other areas:

Sakurai doesn't care that tripping sucks: I won't care either!

Sakurai doesn't care about DLC: I won't care either!

Sakurai doesn't care about adding my most wanted newcomer: I won't care either!
It's the practical way of looking at things. Sakurai does what he wants and thinks would be best for the game. Unless the feedback is overly negative, it will stay, regardless of a few loud butthurt fans.
When I know that the whining and moaning of the haters isn't going to influence jack squat, I have no reason to bother about it. Plain and Simple.
 

SuperGamecube64

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Not only do I not understand TL hate, but I don't understand clone hate in general (although I do agree that Ganon needs to be updated).
 

Xiloh

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...here's hoping that toon link is actually later to be revealed as a costume swap in the LOZ series character selection tab ;) don't tell me I'm the only one who sees the character select screen becoming more than just a drag and drop icon onto pix of characters....(but more of like when master hand picks up the toy outta the toybox, in smash64 intro).....this is the new age of smash people.....2014! Possibly if we don't stop bi**hing it might be pushed to 2015, not too worried cuz then they of course have more time to polish.....but as long as it feels like we're really seeing the truth behind why and how these characters are apart of this fighting universe! Maybe I see it as more than just a vidjya gayme....maybe I see it as true art brought to life.....just hope I'm not the only one :(
 

Swamp Sensei

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...here's hoping that toon link is actually later to be revealed as a costume swap in the LOZ series character selection tab ;)
That will not happen. I can assure you. Toon Link is his own character. Not a costume swap.
 

CrossoverMan

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...here's hoping that toon link is actually later to be revealed as a costume swap in the LOZ series character selection tab ;) don't tell me I'm the only one who sees the character select screen becoming more than just a drag and drop icon onto pix of characters....(but more of like when master hand picks up the toy outta the toybox, in smash64 intro).....this is the new age of smash people.....2014! Possibly if we don't stop bi**hing it might be pushed to 2015, not too worried cuz then they of course have more time to polish.....but as long as it feels like we're really seeing the truth behind why and how these characters are apart of this fighting universe! Maybe I see it as more than just a vidjya gayme....maybe I see it as true art brought to life.....just hope I'm not the only one :(
What the hell are you talking about?
 

Curious Villager

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...here's hoping that toon link is actually later to be revealed as a costume swap in the LOZ series character selection tab ;)
Like Swampasaur said, don't count on it.
don't tell me I'm the only one who sees the character select screen becoming more than just a drag and drop icon onto pix of characters....(but more of like when master hand picks up the toy outta the toybox, in smash64 intro).....this is the new age of smash people.....2014! Possibly if we don't stop bi**hing it might be pushed to 2015, not too worried cuz then they of course have more time to polish.....but as long as it feels like we're really seeing the truth behind why and how these characters are apart of this fighting universe! Maybe I see it as more than just a vidjya gayme....maybe I see it as true art brought to life.....just hope I'm not the only one :(
Like CrossoverMan said, what are you on about?
 

SmashShadow

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I have to say that I am not too happy about Toon Link's reveal. Yes he's a clone but he's more than that; He's also another link. Even with Zelda being my favorite Nintendo franchise I simply can't endorse having multiple versions of the same character on the roster. I could have maybe let it slide he was more unique but he isn't. There's only so far that personality can get you, especially in a fighting game. Link himself embodies all Links and all their histories so I don't feel it's even necessary to add Toon Link. He simply doesn't add much to me. It just feels as if any other character adds more...just by being another character. Then there are all the people who suggest Toon Zelda and Toon Ganondorf as well because he was added. I want new characters, not several versions of the same characters we have. That said, I won't complain about his inclusion. He still fills all of Sakurai's criteria and is one of my favorite characters. I just hope that there aren't any other copy characters added.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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It's the practical way of looking at things. Sakurai does what he wants and thinks would be best for the game. Unless the feedback is overly negative, it will stay, regardless of a few loud butthurt fans.
When I know that the whining and moaning of the haters isn't going to influence jack squat, I have no reason to bother about it. Plain and Simple.
You didn't really address my argument at all. All you did was basically say, "It's done, so I don't care." That just leads back into my argument that that kind of logic invalidates any complaint at all about Super Smash Bros. games.
 

CrossoverMan

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Having different generations of the same character is like Smash Bros tradition. Hell, they even included Dr Mario, and he isn't even a separate character from Mario.
 

SmashShadow

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Having different generations of the same character is like Smash Bros tradition. Hell, they even included Dr Mario, and he isn't even a separate character from Mario.
That's not even a tradition. It's happened 4 times and from Brawl to Melee, they cut 2 of them and replaced the Young Link with the Toon incarnation. I would hardly call that tradition.
 

Curious Villager

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Blame it on Sakurai that he wants a child Link in Smash, had he included Young Link in Smash 64 instead of Adult Link we probably wouldn't have dealt with that. The thing is, Sakurai finds a younger aged Link to be very important and necessary and looking as how we still have one in Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS, it seems that he hasn't changed his mind since.

Eh Like I said in another thread, I just view Toon Link as Link's Luigi. >_>
 

TumblrFamous

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A child Link has been confirmed to appear in three out of the four games (technically four out of the five) in Smash. It's important to Sakurai, he wants to represent the Zelda franchise the best he can, and having the Cel-Shaded Link is the best route, it represents the majority of the Toon games and the Child games.

I understand why people hate him, but he is far from a clone. A clone is a character who is literally a copy-paste of another character. That is certainly not the case with Toon Link.
 

Tepig2000

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I don't understand all that hate. As of all the revals after E3, Toon Link was the one I liked the most. Also I don't want to start a Melee X Brawl discussion, but I like Brawl because no one of the clones are 100% clones. All of them are at least 80% unique. Melee is full of 99% cloned characters.
 

BigHairyFart

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The only problem I have with him is that his new Smash model looks really... I dunno, derpy? The hair & face just don't look right. I love all the details & wrinkles & stuff on his outfit, however.
 

Raetah

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Actually if you ask me, i wouldnt be mad with Wind Waker Link using "Normal Link" slot.
Wind Waker is actually one of the best games of The Legend Of Zelda.
In this game Link have more personality and expressions than in other games.
Also Ganondorf is more complex, rather than being the typical villain.

So let me tell you clear, people that hates Toon Wind Waker Link are MOSTLY ssb players, the same type of persons that negate that Ganondorf needs a change in moveset.
 

Ultinarok

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As long as TL doesn't completely outclass Link in every single way like he does in Brawl, I'm fine with him. He needs a new Final Smash too, I don't like duplicate FS's, I find it even lazier than duplicate normals and similar specials. The FS should embody that ONE character's ultimate power. Two characters having it takes that away.

OK, so I also kinda wish he had different specials and normals like in P:M too.
 

LunethF

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They first need to buff normal Link significantly enough to at least match Toon Link's level.
The hate is because they are so similar in movesets that Toon Link is just regarded as a clone and people feel like he wastes a slot.
In reality Link is the one that is more like a clone; being worse than Toon Link.

If they could give him some more unique abilities and a new Final Smash, he could shine on his own and not be neglected as "just another clone";

Of course, some staples of Link need to stay as they are; the spin attack for instance is the signature move of all Links since ALTTP.

Some moves need to be changed up, like the bow, which could use (as mentioned before) fire and ice arrows - weaker arrows that affect the enemy differently. They could have even taken a note from Project M and how they added Samus' ability to switch beam types with a taunt. Even the boomerang could be changed to suit Toon Link more by having it be guided like in Phantom Hourglass.

Not to mention new moves need to be given to him altogether, for example a counter-attack which takes inspiration from Wind Waker's combat, or more items from WW and PT such as the Deku Leaf or Skull Hammer.

Finally, his Final Smash could be something along the lines of hopping on the King of Red Lions then flooding part of the stage.

He has potential to be more unique but unless Sakurai has implemented changes to make him less of a clone character and to justify his slot on the roster, the hate will always be there for poor little Toon Link.
Doesn't mean you have to pay attention to the haters though :)
 

Tree Cat

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The hate is justifiable. He's a CARTOON SKIN of the EXACT SAME CHARACTER with a "cartoony flavor" to his attacks.
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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I have to say that I am not too happy about Toon Link's reveal. Yes he's a clone but he's more than that; He's also another link. Even with Zelda being my favorite Nintendo franchise I simply can't endorse having multiple versions of the same character on the roster. I could have maybe let it slide he was more unique but he isn't. There's only so far that personality can get you, especially in a fighting game. Link himself embodies all Links and all their histories so I don't feel it's even necessary to add Toon Link. He simply doesn't add much to me. It just feels as if any other character adds more...just by being another character. Then there are all the people who suggest Toon Zelda and Toon Ganondorf as well because he was added. I want new characters, not several versions of the same characters we have..
I pretty much feel the same way, i honestly just dont care for multiple versions of the same character when one version is enough. Yes i know they represent different aspects and designs of the series, but i dont care, Im a huge zelda fan and even i cant get behind it. Being a clone makes it so much worse too since not only is he making regular link less interesting by comparison, he also brings nothing new to the table besides the tweaks he had before. I like when the characters can stand apart from each other, IMO toon link just negates that for link and it just bugs me.
 

edde

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one of my best characters in brawl is toon link.
yet i didnt want him to appear on this game... its pretty much the same thing as link (movesetwise). smash could balance both link and TL to make a balanced decent player that is in between the both (not so heavy and slow, but not so agile and floaty). and well, not asking for something metaknight-like, but a character that can fight with the best and not get his ass kicked (BTW, my favorite videogames are TLOZ titles)

anyways... if you give me a game with 45 characters and tl or a game with 44 and no TL, i would pick the one with TL any day... but if you say i could have any other character instead of TL that isnt some BS like dr mario or pichu and is something like mewtwo, black shadow (fzero), K K Rool, Krystal, Girahim , ETC... i would pick the unique character without thinking it twice
 

CardiganBoy

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As much as i love Wind Waker and its style, one question that is in my mind, is that if Nintendo will keep reusing the same art style for future Zelda games, wich i think we had enough with Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit tracks, if Nintendo use another style like the one from A Link Between Worlds, then Toon Link may become certainly irrelevant.

That said i think the only reason of Toon Link to be in SSB4 is because of the Wind Waker HD remake.
 

Shorts

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I don't like him. He was executed poorly imo.
 

_Darkpit_

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I think with Toon-Link the Zelda series has to much characters. Series like Metroid, Mother, Kid Icarus needs more characters.
 
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