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TOASTYYYYYYYYY! Scorpion for Smash!

Ridley_Prime

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Yep. I’ve had him on follow and am used to that level of crypticness with whatever he vaguely teases or trolls about, but seemed worth posting nonetheless just in case.
 

SuperDoom1

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Boon is stirring the pot now too I guess?

https://twitter.com/noobde/status/1107062115268022273?s=21

It’s interesting regardless.
HOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAPHOLYCRAP
 

MacDaddyNook

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That's just a typical day to anyone who follows Ed's Twitter :p
I agree, I wouldn't but too much stake into it. It's just Boon being Boon, and anyone familiar with him knows he likes to send the fans down wild rabbit holes that sometimes lead to nothing.

Also, it's pretty cool we got Noob confirmed today, and Shang Tsung based on his actor from the movie.
 
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MacDaddyNook

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If Scorpion gets in, he needs the "buy a Scorpion doll" Friendship with a rainbow appearing over him as a taunt.
I would love for him to have this as a "hidden" taunt where the player would input a similar controller input string that triggers Fatality/Friendship/ETC in MK games to do this. This way then his normal taunts can preserve his tough/intimidating appearance but still include the classic MK silliness and a nod to the sometimes ridiculous controller inputs used to perform special actions.

Plus, I can totally see theme featuring a scene of him performing the Friendship next to a delighted Isabelle during his reveal trailer for giggles. That just sounds like a Sakurai thing to do.

GET OVER HERE!

(and add me to the list! Mortal Kombat rocks.)
A bit off topic, but I love your user name. It brings me back to the early days of Smash 64 when an old friend used to exclusively pick Pink Luigi because in his words "real men wear pink." That just brought a smile to my face.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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I agree, I wouldn't but too much stake into it. It's just Boon being Boon, and anyone familiar with him knows he likes to send the fans down wild rabbit holes that sometimes lead to nothing.

Also, it's pretty cool we got Noob confirmed today, and Shang Tsung based on his actor from the movie.
Even voiced by the movie portrayer, and like how the krypt takes place at his island and he acts as the tour guide. Making a legacy character like Shang Tsung DLC is equally uncool though. If Mileena and Shinnok who were initially leaked with Shang also turn out to be DLC, that’s gonna be quite a bit of backlash when they were just in the last game.

Up to this point, the MK characters that were DLC were ones that hadn’t been in a game or playable in one in ages that fans were happy to see reworked (Tanya, Tremor, Bo Rai Cho, and such), but making main legacy characters DLC feels kinda wrong, and I’m not alone in that notion. Shang should’ve been in the base game, and announcing DLC character before they even reveal the full base roster is dumb.

I’m still anticipating and getting MK11, but not too happy with how it’s been marketed.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Even voiced by the movie portrayer, and like how the krypt takes place at his island and he acts as the tour guide. Making a legacy character like Shang Tsung DLC is equally uncool though. If Mileena and Shinnok who were initially leaked with Shang also turn out to be DLC, that’s gonna be quite a bit of backlash when they were just in the last game.

Up to this point, the MK characters that were DLC were ones that hadn’t been in a game or playable in one in ages that fans were happy to see reworked (Tanya, Tremor, Bo Rai Cho, and such), but making main legacy characters DLC feels kinda wrong, and I’m not alone in that notion. Shang should’ve been in the base game, and announcing DLC character before they even reveal the full base roster is dumb.

I’m still anticipating and getting MK11, but not too happy with how it’s been marketed.
I love the throwbacks as well, though I have to agree that regulating him to DLC is a bit disappointing. Then again, he was absent from the previous game so having him back in any capacity is appreciated.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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So far, the only DLCs we know of are Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn (he's not gonna be a pre-order bonus forever and we know it)

Both of these characters were considered dead for good in the current timeline, iirc, with no way of being brought back.

You could argue Noob's death in that soulnado in 9 is that too, but one line from Quan Chi's pre-fight banters in MKX implied his soul was still under his control, aka he could be brought back.

Anyone else in that timeline who's dead and doesn't have a chance to be brought back to life? Because maybe they'll be DLC too if this keep on going that way.
 
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MacDaddyNook

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That's a good point. Both currently-known DLC picks are dead and done in the current timeline, which could be why they are DLC. The only other character that's "gone for good" like them that comes to mind is Quan Chi himself, since he, Shang and Shinnok are all out of commission and I don't know anyone else who could revive him.

I was under the impression that the story for this would be pulling from the original timeline as well as the current timeline, plus any place before that since we are getting younger versions of characters like Johnny and Sonia in addition to their older counterparts. It looks like anyone is fair game to come back, outside of the guest characters who are anyone's guess.
 

pupNapoleon

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Question to someone familiar with ESRB ratings, particularly related to DLC having different codes.

Would it be possible for Scorpion to bleed? There's no way all characters, would bleed- from animation as well as the Nintendo philosophy on its characters, but perhaps characters who hit Scorpion could make him bleed.

I'd also love it, should Scorpion and Sub-zero make my dream true and both get in, that they could do actual fatalities (just on each other- a completely different final smash if triggered in proximity to one another). Would this be possible, ratings wise?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Question to someone familiar with ESRB ratings, particularly related to DLC having different codes.

Would it be possible for Scorpion to bleed? There's no way all characters, would bleed- from animation as well as the Nintendo philosophy on its characters, but perhaps characters who hit Scorpion could make him bleed.

I'd also love it, should Scorpion and Sub-zero make my dream true and both get in, that they could do actual fatalities (just on each other- a completely different final smash if triggered in proximity to one another). Would this be possible, ratings wise?
Bayonetta got away with bleeding without getting hit by censorship due to it being displayed as roses, just like in her games.

But for Scorpion, it's not gonna be so easy. We could get the hilarious censorship of the SNES Mortal Kombat (where the blood was sweat-colored), but otherwise, I doubt we can get anything concerning blood.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Bayonetta got away with bleeding without getting hit by censorship due to it being displayed as roses, just like in her games.

But for Scorpion, it's not gonna be so easy. We could get the hilarious censorship of the SNES Mortal Kombat (where the blood was sweat-colored), but otherwise, I doubt we can get anything concerning blood.
Is this based on thought or the ratings from ESRB?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Is this based on thought or the ratings from ESRB?
Mostly thought.

With that said, I think DLC is rated separately from the main game, iirc, but it's best to try and have the same kind of content since it just makes things weird to have M- or T-Rated DLC on an E10-game.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Mostly thought.

With that said, I think DLC is rated separately from the main game, iirc, but it's best to try and have the same kind of content since it just makes things weird to have M- or T-Rated DLC on an E10-game.
Personally, I find it more odd that sexuality would have less of a problem in a video game, than violence.
In the USA, we tend to bash any form of sexual expression (on a cultural scale), particularly as it relates to children.
But violence is treated with slightly more open arms.
That said, the stance is that both are 'bad' for children. One just significantly moreso.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Personally, I find it more odd that sexuality would have less of a problem in a video game, than violence.
In the USA, we tend to bash any form of sexual expression (on a cultural scale), particularly as it relates to children.
But violence is treated with slightly more open arms.
That said, the stance is that both are 'bad' for children. One just significantly moreso.
I think this stems from that general violence can be more used as a story telling device to either be (in the case of a war for example) or resolve a conflict whereas sexuality, not romance/love/character relationship, tends to be more gratuitous or fluff and doesn't really drive a story. At least, that's how I see how violence can get more of a pass.

As for Scorpion's blood, a little might be acceptable with the ESRB since there have been E-rated games with some mild blood effects (OoT comes to mind). Likewise, some other more violent moments have happened in E-rated games such as Bowser's lava "death" in the first New Super Mario Bros., so there is a bit more wiggle room than we might actually think. However, regardless of the ESRB, I think Sakurai or Nintendo would opt to not include it anyway.
 

pupNapoleon

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I think this stems from that general violence can be more used as a story telling device to either be (in the case of a war for example) or resolve a conflict whereas sexuality, not romance/love/character relationship, tends to be more gratuitous or fluff and doesn't really drive a story. At least, that's how I see how violence can get more of a pass.
Not to derail this conversation- but I am honestly shocked to read this.
Too many storytellers, from my perspective, utilize combat and action to actually progress the plot or character development, even if this is when action is most impactful. Overall in story telling, an action needs to move one of those two points forward.
Meanwhile, sexuality can easily reveal characterization, and often does- though it can likewise be used gratuitously.

That said, my comment about 'acceptable in the USA' was not just in relation to fiction/story, but in general how we here, as a culture, condemn sexuality but glorify violence.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Meanwhile, sexuality can easily reveal characterization, and often does- though it can likewise be used gratuitously.
.
Fair enough, I didn't consider that. But since you mention it, I do stand corrected as it can be used to set up a character's personality/thought process.

As for culturally, I would guess that the avoidance from sexuality also comes from the fact that, at least in the US, the cuture was ingrained with a religion/belief structure that heavily suppressed it over centuries.
 

MacDaddyNook

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There's also different rating systems in different regions, and maybe some are more strict, so it's a safe move to not include blood.
Very true also. We know at least Japan is more strict when it comes to violence.

I was initially meaning more as an "artistic" choice to keep things consistent with the other characters or a practical one if having particles like blood could have an effect on performance (namely framerate/slowdown). But they do have to be conscientious how all ratings would react to the content.
 

Ridley_Prime

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I see MK11 took the Injustice 1 approach of Scorpion not getting a free hit/combo of choice after reeling someone in with spear unless it's the meter burn version. Can see why longtime Scorpion users are not happy with it... Imagine if Sub-Zero's ice ball didn't freeze anymore for you to get a free hit unless it was the EX version. Can also see why they did it for balance reasons though and with the other options Scorpion tends to have, probably won't hurt him overall too much, but changing a big part of how people always played a character will always be polarized.

For the idea of Scorpion in Smash though, it'd be just as well I guess if Scorpion automatically did a little knockback punch after a successful spear, instead of being able to do whatever move you want while they're stunned. Get Over Here + whatever followup you want spam would be hellishly abused in Smash particularly. The landscape for Smash also wouldn't make Scorpion teleport spam as friendly/encouraged like in MK, thankfully.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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In all fairness for the spear, they can make it like Isabelle's fishing rod and make it blockable, so it would help make it less obnoxious than if it were a proper command grab :p
 

MacDaddyNook

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I see MK11 took the Injustice 1 approach of Scorpion not getting a free hit/combo of choice after reeling someone in with spear unless it's the meter burn version. Can see why longtime Scorpion users are not happy with it... Imagine if Sub-Zero's ice ball didn't freeze anymore for you to get a free hit unless it was the EX version. Can also see why they did it for balance reasons though and with the other options Scorpion tends to have, probably won't hurt him overall too much, but changing a big part of how people always played a character will always be polarized.

For the idea of Scorpion in Smash though, it'd be just as well I guess if Scorpion automatically did a little knockback punch after a successful spear, instead of being able to do whatever move you want while they're stunned. Get Over Here + whatever followup you want spam would be hellishly abused in Smash particularly. The landscape for Smash also wouldn't make Scorpion teleport spam as friendly/encouraged like in MK, thankfully.
As The Stoopid Unikorn The Stoopid Unikorn already said, the spear would be blockable like Isabelle's fishing rod, which I believe is true to the source material as, at least in the old arcades, it could be blocked.

The way I see it working would be that it would have a range between a Hookshot grab and Isabelle's fishing rod and would grab an unblocking character if it connects anywhere in that range. If the move miss/extends past the grabbing range, it become a mild projectile with small damage and flinching (it can be reflected/pocketed at any range and loses the grab property after doing so). It'd be a fairly slow attack to perform, roughly the rate of a Hadouken, but travels fairly quickly. When grabbed, the opponent will be brought over to Scorpion with a brief amount stun, that is scaled around how much damage the target has, which amounts to about as much as a buried opponent would get. This would allow Scorpion to perform a quick action of his choosing (the Spear's fire rate would be too slow to repetitively use) much like it has behaved historically.

I think that would keep it unique, true to its source material and not broken.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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As The Stoopid Unikorn The Stoopid Unikorn already said, the spear would be blockable like Isabelle's fishing rod, which I believe is true to the source material as, at least in the old arcades, it could be blocked.

The way I see it working would be that it would have a range between a Hookshot grab and Isabelle's fishing rod and would grab an unblocking character if it connects anywhere in that range. If the move miss/extends past the grabbing range, it become a mild projectile with small damage and flinching (it can be reflected/pocketed at any range and loses the grab property after doing so). It'd be a fairly slow attack to perform, roughly the rate of a Hadouken, but travels fairly quickly. When grabbed, the opponent will be brought over to Scorpion with a brief amount stun, that is scaled around how much damage the target has, which amounts to about as much as a buried opponent would get. This would allow Scorpion to perform a quick action of his choosing (the Spear's fire rate would be too slow to repetitively use) much like it has behaved historically.

I think that would keep it unique, true to its source material and not broken.
In addition, if whiffed, Scorpion would have a lot of lag, making it a high risk, high reward move. If you land the spear, you can do whatever. If you miss, they can capitalize on it.

And if done in the air, Scorpion just automatically does his air throw (except it doesn’t launch downwards, but rather sideways for balance’s sake). Maybe you could choose the launch direction between left and right, but that’s about as much control as you’d get.
 
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MacDaddyNook

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In addition, if whiffed, Scorpion would have a lot of lag, making it a high risk, high reward move. If you land the spear, you can do whatever. If you miss, they can capitalize on it.

And if done in the air, Scorpion just automatically does his air throw (except it doesn’t launch downwards, but rather sideways for balance’s sake). Maybe you could choose the launch direction between left and right, but that’s about as much control as you’d get.
That sounds perfect to me. I especially like the air-throw part, it seems like something that hasn't been done yet.

Also, I forgot to mention, but it could also be used as a tether recovery, but I figure that was already a given.
 

pupNapoleon

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Very true also. We know at least Japan is more strict when it comes to violence.

I was initially meaning more as an "artistic" choice to keep things consistent with the other characters or a practical one if having particles like blood could have an effect on performance (namely framerate/slowdown). But they do have to be conscientious how all ratings would react to the content.
Very interesting point, and I feel culturally insensitive to not look up how important ratings boards are elsewhere in the world. Research may commence!
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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That sounds perfect to me. I especially like the air-throw part, it seems like something that hasn't been done yet.
:bowsermelee:

Also, I forgot to mention, but it could also be used as a tether recovery, but I figure that was already a given.
Unless they just give him an up B like Ivysaur's, which would be cool, actually.

And even then both being tethers is possible because of the different angle.
 

MacDaddyNook

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:bowsermelee:


Unless they just give him an up B like Ivysaur's, which would be cool, actually.

And even then both being tethers is possible because of the different angle.
I can see what you mean but I picture Scorpion staying in place during the throw whereas Bowser travels with his target. Either way, it'd be a fun move to do anyway.

A tether Up B could work. The only other move I picture possibly working as a recovery is his screen jump/teleport, though I don't know how that move would work without being drastically different from in MK.

Very interesting point, and I feel culturally insensitive to not look up how important ratings boards are elsewhere in the world. Research may commence!
It's all good, the results could give us a good idea of how they tackle this game. Good luck with your investigation.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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A tether Up B could work. The only other move I picture possibly working as a recovery is his screen jump/teleport, though I don't know how that move would work without being drastically different from in MK.
Which is why I kinda see it as a side special that works more like the actual games.

He'd need to be within a certain range of the foe for it to work for the sake of balance, and leave him open if he's too far, but would be a decent tool against projectile users if he can be close enough.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Which is why I kinda see it as a side special that works more like the actual games.

He'd need to be within a certain range of the foe for it to work for the sake of balance, and leave him open if he's too far, but would be a decent tool against projectile users if he can be close enough.
I like the idea, it would give him a completely new way to approach as well as get out of trouble. My biggest worry would be handling stage elements and such. Would this move be completely ineffective if the opponent had his/her back against a wall?
 

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Even voiced by the movie portrayer, and like how the krypt takes place at his island and he acts as the tour guide. Making a legacy character like Shang Tsung DLC is equally uncool though. If Mileena and Shinnok who were initially leaked with Shang also turn out to be DLC, that’s gonna be quite a bit of backlash when they were just in the last game.

Up to this point, the MK characters that were DLC were ones that hadn’t been in a game or playable in one in ages that fans were happy to see reworked (Tanya, Tremor, Bo Rai Cho, and such), but making main legacy characters DLC feels kinda wrong, and I’m not alone in that notion. Shang should’ve been in the base game, and announcing DLC character before they even reveal the full base roster is dumb.

I’m still anticipating and getting MK11, but not too happy with how it’s been marketed.
In regards to such a case scenario, I'll just do the same thing as always; wait until there's a re-release that compiles all the DLC before committing to MK11.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I like the idea, it would give him a completely new way to approach as well as get out of trouble. My biggest worry would be handling stage elements and such. Would this move be completely ineffective if the opponent had his/her back against a wall?
Why would it when it works perfectly fine on the "walls" in his game?
 

MacDaddyNook

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Why would it when it works perfectly fine on the "walls" in his game?
I guess my concern is what they'd have to do to keep him from clipping and getting stuck of falling out of bounds. I know they have the ability to make it not happen, but I am just curious as to what kind of method could be used to prevent such from happening.

For example, on Corneria, if the opponent is up against the wall on the lower right side of the stage, under the fin, would it still be possible for him to appear behind that character?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I guess my concern is what they'd have to do to keep him from clipping and getting stuck of falling out of bounds. I know they have the ability to make it not happen, but I am just curious as to what kind of method could be used to prevent such from happening.

For example, on Corneria, if the opponent is up against the wall on the lower right side of the stage, under the fin, would it still be possible for him to appear behind that character?
By the end of the punch, no matter the situation (wall or not), he could be at the exact spot his opponent was, and the moment he warps to do the punch could have him be intangible until the move's endlag, thus preventing clipping as much as possible (latter being to prevent clipping by being hit).
 
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