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Tips on DACUS?
- Thread starter Gushers™
- Start date
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
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- Nov 2, 2013
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- hinichii
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Gushers™
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2015
- Messages
- 13
Sweet. Thanks
cisyphus
Smash Ace
Some clarifications:
You cannot hold the C-stick in any of the directions that would cause an Up Smash input
You don't need to release the C-stick
If you're not getting it immediately, take note of what you're getting instead:
Are you jumping? Are you up smashing? Are you down smashing? Are you dash attacking? Are you grabbing? All of these results have specific and distinct areas that the input is failing on.
Jump: You are hitting up on the control stick way too early.
Up Smash: you're inputting an up smash on the c-stick, which will NOT cause a dash attack. You could also be missing the c-stick input entirely.
Down-smash: this usually happens when you use down on the c-stick (the most common method). You're not dashing beforehand.
Dash attack: you're late on the Z-button input window.
Grab: you're late on the up control stick input. This results in a boost grab—another useful tool.
After you get consistent (I'd say 9/10 times, but whatever you're comfortable doing) with this input, try the following:
Tilted DACUS (hold left or right after the DACUS input is completed)
DACUS out of standing animation. This ensures the least amount of investment in DACUS input, equating to greatest usefulness.
DACUS out of dashdance. A solid mixup option in that you can both approach and retreat safely with DACUS.
DACUS out of downsmash. This is an essential tool because it controls multiple approach options simultaneously.
Wavedash -> DACUS. DACUS is a great launcher against floaties, and a massive combo-starter on Spacies.
Set up targets to hit with the mortar so that you learn its trajectories. This is meant to help control the stage better.
Set up a mine and try to DACUS so that you end up right next to it without detonating it. This is meant to help your spacing.
DACUS to ledge [with possible smashturn->Wavedash ledgegrab after]. This is a fantastic edgeguarding tool as the DACUS often discourages high recoveries while also covering low recoveries, and grabbing ledge after allows for invincible back airs from ledge. You can even place a mine before you WD to cover on-stage recoveries. :3 Alternatively you can swag hard on your opponent and forward air them out of the DACUS hitstun.
Something I've started doing is to get on a platform (besides Smashville/Yoshi's Island/Norfair) and DACUS from left to right while simultaneously tilting the mortar to the center of the platform. This trains multiple aspects of the tech at once, and is very time- and space-efficient, fitting nicely into pre-match handwarmers or a practice routine.
The Snake metagame is super new and super underdeveloped, especially considering how totally different PM Snake functions in regard to Brawl Snake. So while this post may seem daunting, it's meant to also encourage you to experiment with DACUS (and ALL of Snake's options) in order to find new concepts and applications. This is a character of massive untapped potential, and I'm all for encouraging every Snake main to do all that they can to help realize this potential.
You cannot hold the C-stick in any of the directions that would cause an Up Smash input
You don't need to release the C-stick
If you're not getting it immediately, take note of what you're getting instead:
Are you jumping? Are you up smashing? Are you down smashing? Are you dash attacking? Are you grabbing? All of these results have specific and distinct areas that the input is failing on.
Jump: You are hitting up on the control stick way too early.
Up Smash: you're inputting an up smash on the c-stick, which will NOT cause a dash attack. You could also be missing the c-stick input entirely.
Down-smash: this usually happens when you use down on the c-stick (the most common method). You're not dashing beforehand.
Dash attack: you're late on the Z-button input window.
Grab: you're late on the up control stick input. This results in a boost grab—another useful tool.
After you get consistent (I'd say 9/10 times, but whatever you're comfortable doing) with this input, try the following:
Tilted DACUS (hold left or right after the DACUS input is completed)
DACUS out of standing animation. This ensures the least amount of investment in DACUS input, equating to greatest usefulness.
DACUS out of dashdance. A solid mixup option in that you can both approach and retreat safely with DACUS.
DACUS out of downsmash. This is an essential tool because it controls multiple approach options simultaneously.
Wavedash -> DACUS. DACUS is a great launcher against floaties, and a massive combo-starter on Spacies.
Set up targets to hit with the mortar so that you learn its trajectories. This is meant to help control the stage better.
Set up a mine and try to DACUS so that you end up right next to it without detonating it. This is meant to help your spacing.
DACUS to ledge [with possible smashturn->Wavedash ledgegrab after]. This is a fantastic edgeguarding tool as the DACUS often discourages high recoveries while also covering low recoveries, and grabbing ledge after allows for invincible back airs from ledge. You can even place a mine before you WD to cover on-stage recoveries. :3 Alternatively you can swag hard on your opponent and forward air them out of the DACUS hitstun.
Something I've started doing is to get on a platform (besides Smashville/Yoshi's Island/Norfair) and DACUS from left to right while simultaneously tilting the mortar to the center of the platform. This trains multiple aspects of the tech at once, and is very time- and space-efficient, fitting nicely into pre-match handwarmers or a practice routine.
The Snake metagame is super new and super underdeveloped, especially considering how totally different PM Snake functions in regard to Brawl Snake. So while this post may seem daunting, it's meant to also encourage you to experiment with DACUS (and ALL of Snake's options) in order to find new concepts and applications. This is a character of massive untapped potential, and I'm all for encouraging every Snake main to do all that they can to help realize this potential.
Last edited:
Gushers™
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2015
- Messages
- 13
thanks for the tips! So far I've gotten to the point where I can DACUS fairly consistently, and I've practiced DACUS out of down smash since I've seen top players do it a lot. But that was really helpful. Tomorrow will be my first tourney with him so hopefully I won't get rekt too hard haha
Last edited:
BND
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Messages
- 174
Just a note (that I've been posting everywhere), but while DACUS is a good Snake tool, it isn't as staple as cypher recoveries/sweetspotting, combo/followup knowledge (since you're not going to be getting too many openings unless something they're vulnerable to tranq spam or something), and C4 sticking is. Make sure to get the hang of those first.
I honestly think grenades are easier to handle than DACUSing consistently (because if you don't, expect to get punished), though that's just a heavily biased opinion. After you get the basics down, feel free to branch out to whatever playstyle you want. Like Cisyphus said, Snake's meta isn't particularly developed (Or rather, while additional potential is decreasing, Snake has more setups than many other characters in the game, and he definitely has more niche mechanics that aren't well known), so you can probably min-max your gameplay style and things will go fine.
I honestly think grenades are easier to handle than DACUSing consistently (because if you don't, expect to get punished), though that's just a heavily biased opinion. After you get the basics down, feel free to branch out to whatever playstyle you want. Like Cisyphus said, Snake's meta isn't particularly developed (Or rather, while additional potential is decreasing, Snake has more setups than many other characters in the game, and he definitely has more niche mechanics that aren't well known), so you can probably min-max your gameplay style and things will go fine.
cisyphus
Smash Ace
I would counter with saying DACUS has matchup specific usefulness. DACUS into Foward Air combos fast fallers at mid to high percents pretty consistently (I need to test it more) but that's a free ass setup that I get on Falcons and Falcos a bunch at a smashfest tonight. I've started using it a lot more just as a way to control space against characters that have to approach. It covers a massive amount of space, and the threat of the mortar is often greater than the Mortar itself. Don't discredit DACUS at all: it has massive degrees of usefulness and I'm starting to explore them more thoroughly.
Grenades have a separate but equally massive degree of usefulness (potentially more so than DACUS), but this is a DACUS thread. Despite everything I've said about DACUS, I would still say that my grenade control is the most valuable and powerful aspect of my gameplay presently. To demonstrate my point further, though: I don't use every option grenades possess, let alone to their fullest potential. I don't use any of the lobs, and I don't use BND's IGT tech—primarily because I'm not comfortable with them. Even my recoveries need work—I still drop sweetspots and die for it, despite technically being able to save myself via C4; I've expanded my C4 teching options greatly with B-Reverse Cyphers, but I can see additional usefulness for B-Reverse grenades and Tranquilizer as well. Again: I'm not comfortable with it. I'm not even comfortable with the Cyphers considering I missed all but two or three tonight (out of maybe 10 attempts).
What I'm trying to get at here is that you don't want to spread yourself too thin in any regard. I would actually say it's good to cultivate a finite amount of concepts to begin with while maintaining a realistic expectation of yourself. Eliminate the goal of winning from your mind and change that goal to be learning and improving your gameplay. I started out only knowing Snake's grab combos—and that's still an essential part of my gameplay, but it only works in so many matchups and it only works for so long and against so many things. Once something came along that made it very difficult to utilize that—for me it was Marth's ability to keep me from grabbing—I had to cultivate other skills like the DACUS, grenades, and recoveries, and now I'm trying to develop my aerial mobility better to minimize his punishes on me. You can develop something and work on it as much as you want, but eventually you'll run into a situation where that something isn't the answer, so you have to find what the answer really is. It might be a slower development overall, but it's a lot less taxing and far less discouraging to know when X doesn't work and to KNOW that it couldn't also be Y or Z as well.
Certainly have a solid foundation to stand on (that would be basic movement options, character knowledge, et al) but have something really strong that you're able to depend on when things get rough. Have the presence of mind to also realize when that something isn't working, and brainstorm what options you have to cover that weakness, THEN develop that option. Continue this process until you're good at every aspect of the character and your skill as a player will have improved vastly as well because you've begun this process of identifying and deconstructing problems as they arise. That's what you call "adaptation." Feel free to cheese people with Chain Grabs into Stick into Up Throw C4 KOs for a bit, just don't keep doing it forever, y'know? Learning the tech is one thing; applying the tech is another beast entirely.
Grenades have a separate but equally massive degree of usefulness (potentially more so than DACUS), but this is a DACUS thread. Despite everything I've said about DACUS, I would still say that my grenade control is the most valuable and powerful aspect of my gameplay presently. To demonstrate my point further, though: I don't use every option grenades possess, let alone to their fullest potential. I don't use any of the lobs, and I don't use BND's IGT tech—primarily because I'm not comfortable with them. Even my recoveries need work—I still drop sweetspots and die for it, despite technically being able to save myself via C4; I've expanded my C4 teching options greatly with B-Reverse Cyphers, but I can see additional usefulness for B-Reverse grenades and Tranquilizer as well. Again: I'm not comfortable with it. I'm not even comfortable with the Cyphers considering I missed all but two or three tonight (out of maybe 10 attempts).
What I'm trying to get at here is that you don't want to spread yourself too thin in any regard. I would actually say it's good to cultivate a finite amount of concepts to begin with while maintaining a realistic expectation of yourself. Eliminate the goal of winning from your mind and change that goal to be learning and improving your gameplay. I started out only knowing Snake's grab combos—and that's still an essential part of my gameplay, but it only works in so many matchups and it only works for so long and against so many things. Once something came along that made it very difficult to utilize that—for me it was Marth's ability to keep me from grabbing—I had to cultivate other skills like the DACUS, grenades, and recoveries, and now I'm trying to develop my aerial mobility better to minimize his punishes on me. You can develop something and work on it as much as you want, but eventually you'll run into a situation where that something isn't the answer, so you have to find what the answer really is. It might be a slower development overall, but it's a lot less taxing and far less discouraging to know when X doesn't work and to KNOW that it couldn't also be Y or Z as well.
Certainly have a solid foundation to stand on (that would be basic movement options, character knowledge, et al) but have something really strong that you're able to depend on when things get rough. Have the presence of mind to also realize when that something isn't working, and brainstorm what options you have to cover that weakness, THEN develop that option. Continue this process until you're good at every aspect of the character and your skill as a player will have improved vastly as well because you've begun this process of identifying and deconstructing problems as they arise. That's what you call "adaptation." Feel free to cheese people with Chain Grabs into Stick into Up Throw C4 KOs for a bit, just don't keep doing it forever, y'know? Learning the tech is one thing; applying the tech is another beast entirely.
SSS
Smash Ace
I have R set to attack and use that for DACUS. While plugging in my controller I light press R and somehow that makes it easier.
is this with or without tap jump? does it make a difference?
cisyphus
Smash Ace
Tap jump makes no difference. The dash attack merely has a set window where it can be cancelled by two things: up smash and grab. Having no tap jump essentially makes one of the flubs impossible (see my earlier post). That being said, please turn tap jump on, it's absolutely essential for UpB OoS and immediate SH/FH up airs, which might actually auto-cancel on side platforms (gotta test that).
Sur Fartsalot
Smash Apprentice
I read somewhere that there is a certain kind of DACUS that allows you to slide a lot farther than normal. What is this called and how do you do it?
LupinX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 226
there's another kind of dacus?
cisyphus
Smash Ace
Dunno why LupinX quoted my post, but the other DACUS is a buffered DACUS and is not possible in PM afaik.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dash_attack_canceled_up_smash#Buffered_dash_attack_canceled_up_smash
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dash_attack_canceled_up_smash#Buffered_dash_attack_canceled_up_smash
Last edited:
LupinX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 226
apologies, i meant to quote fartsalot's
Grehbeh
Smash Rookie
I have tap jump turned off, and i use Left Shield set to grab for my DACUS, from what I've seen this isn't a common way of doing it but may help you if you haven't tried already. Its a lot of practice and finding whats comfortable for your muscle memory. Cisyphus gives great advice so i would listen to his posts!