Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[Deleted member]

Right, sorry. Truth be told, I haven't played Kirby seriously since 2002. ;3



It's kinda funny.

We have two low-tier characters:

And then an undisputed top-tier:

It's and all over again~

It should be like the Brawl days where all three of them were tournament viable...



R.I.P. D R E A M L A N D B O I S 2008-2014

 

[The Merc]

I'm curious. How much (in terms of kill power) was Kirby's hammer nerfed. i mean, I know it has more start up now, but what's kill power like compared to brawl?

The first time I fought a Little Mac who knew how to use his aerials, needless to say, I got bodied. After the match, I sat there slack-jawed for like ten minutes wondering what the **** just happened.

See! Mac can be good.

Not really. Good players have done work with him and haven't gotten very far. There's really not much to it, he just doesn't have the tools to compete in the current meta. MK may have a weak neutral game, but he has probably the second-best advantage in the game after ZSS to make up for it. Kirby has nothing to threaten others with, even Hammer Flip is an incredibly unsafe move that's bait punish and requires a hard read to get anything done with. He's not a good character in 1v1.

What about inhale?

Mac dies about half as quickly as everybody else, is the short answer. I can copy-paste the proper response I wrote up recently if you want.

I would be very interested, since I know that if you know how to use Mac, you can and will get rekt.

I will explain Lucina below.



If you're referring to the list I posted, it's not a tier list. The only reason I have her in the tier below Marth is because it's based on relevance in the meta, and Lucina is...just not relevant. Marth is barely making waves to begin with, and Lucina is just outclassed in every way in the competitive scene; she's just a poor man's Marth if you want to win big at tourneys.

In an actual tier list, yeah, I'd put her a few spots below Marth at most. I don't think she's a bad character, there's just no justifiable reason why you'd choose her over Marth if you just want to win.

Because.......

HER NAME IS LUCINA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

Inhale is really not a good option at high level, especially since you can't suck in somebody who's shielding and it leaves Kirby wide open for a quick punish despite its startup and ending lag being decreased from past games. The move is also less safe due to this game removing grab armor.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Hey, if there's one thing I have to say about Lucina she's not as trashy as . Roy in Melee was a lolcow.

I'll just leave this here...

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Not really. Good players have done work with him and haven't gotten very far. There's really not much to it, he just doesn't have the tools to compete in the current meta. MK may have a weak neutral game, but he has probably the second-best advantage in the game after ZSS to make up for it. Kirby has nothing to threaten others with, even Hammer Flip is an incredibly unsafe move that's bait punish and requires a hard read to get anything done with. He's not a good character in 1v1.

You've much yet to learn...

(translation: you'll never convince me Kirby isn't underrated. )

I still think he has enough options in the neutral to bait and punish hard. I know my opinion is unpopular, especially with what we've seen of him in the meta thus far, but I will continue to maintain it.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll just leave this here...

Bro, we're talking about DJ Nintendo here. He brought out friggin' against one of the best 's in his region at a tourney and beat him 2-0.

 

[Wintropy]

See! Mac can be good.

Oh, he definitely can be good. Any character can be good if the player is good. But compared to other characters, he isn't very good competitively.

Bear in mind that this is considering the very highest levels of play. Unless you want to win big in tournaments without putting in a ton of extra effort, it doesn't matter who you play.

What about inhale?

Not very good. It's slow and doesn't do much damage or put the opponent in a position that Kirby can really follow up from, so it's not a good command grab, and its potential beyond that really depends on how good the opponent's neutral-b is and what kind of benefit it offers Kirby. Using it in neutral is very dangerous, you kinda have to bait your opponent into running right into your mouth for it to work.

I would be very interested, since I know that if you know how to use Mac, you can and will get rekt.

I wish Mac was a viable character. I love the character, I love his design, I want him to be viable...

But he isn't. And short of a dramatic overhaul to his design or the competitive ruleset, I don't think he can ever be viable.

This is a character that is as one-dimensional as as a terminal vector. He excels in one thing, and that one thing is ground-based combat. The boy is insane in his element. If you try to coast to victory on the proviso that "it's just Mac, he can't threaten me", you will get bopped. Unless you have a very reliable and safe disjoint or projectile game, fighting Mac to a boxing match is, nine times out of ten, suicide. You have to really shut down his options for a head-on confrontation to be anything but a blitzkrieg to your stock.

The thing is that, if you don't want to play his game, he doesn't have much to pressure you into doing so. Mac is terminally easy to cheese. If you just want to say "lol jk" and bait him into disadvantage, and if you have the tools to put him out and keep him out, there's not much he can do to defy you, short of playing extremely cleverly and making sure he stays in his zone. He's one of the few characters (the others probably being just Ganondorf and Doc) that can be killed due to unfavourable knockback trajectory: you don't need to hit him off the blastzone, because most of his stocks will probably be dropped by not having the momentum to make it back to the stage. If he's knocked off-stage, the entire dynamic of the game changes: now he can't keep up the momentum and rearrange your face with his squishy green fists, now he has to shift tacks to just survive. When he has momentum he's great, but the second he drops it, he risks dropping the stock or even the very game. That is a crippling weakness to have in a game where stage control is vital to survival.

It's been said before, but Mac is basically that guy in a traditional fighter that can empty your vitality gauge in about five good hits, but whose gauge is half the size of everybody else's. You have to play constantly on point and absolutely minimise damage so you don't get bodied. One wrong move and it can be very difficult to recover. Mac is very true to his own game, in that he's a spry wee fella that has to duck and dodge strikes from opponents twice his size and strength and get creative to beat them back, because while he's got the guts to get the job done, he can't withstand more than a few hits himself. I don't think that kind of gameplan is sustainable in Smash, where safety is king and half the battle is being able to make it back to the stage in one piece.

Mac, in my opinion, doesn't really have much room to develop. By virtue of his extreme design, the best he can hope to do is refine what he's good at and minimise opportunities for his weaknesses to be exploited - yet as the greater meta develops and people become safer yet more daring and better off-stage techniques become increasingly commonplace, Mac is going to find it very difficult to keep up and remain relevant (if he's even relevant now, which I don't think he is). He's a great counterpick if you're comfortable with the stage you're on and his matchup with the other guy is doable, and in that sense, I think he's probably one of the strongest (yet most niche) counterpicks you can have: if you know Mac is optimised for the conditions of your next fight, he can be a terrifying opponent indeed.

But as a solo viable main? Unless your name is Sol, I don't see it happening. Even then, I don't think Sol's ever been to a major, or if he has, he definitely hasn't done well enough to make big waves - Mac is inherently held back in his potential by the very nature of his design, and that's difficult to sustain in a meta dominated by characters that have great matchups with him. None of this is new, but I just wanted to offer my own perspective on the matter. Mac will body you if you don't respect him, but I don't think there's very many characters that really do need to respect him in the meta.

You can will get rekt if your opponent doesn't know how to fight him. If they do and he gets beaten in neutral, it's painfully easy to keep him from resetting.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Bro, we're talking about DJ Nintendo here. He brought out friggin' against one of the best 's in his region at a tourney and beat him 2-0.

Roy's our boy never forget

 

[Deleted member]

Roy's our boy never forget

He is our boy...

in Project M and Smash 4.

#20HOHOHOHOHOHO

 

[~Skelly~]

Bro, we're talking about DJ Nintendo here. He brought out friggin' against one of the best 's in his region at a tourney and beat him 2-0.

Despite my dislike for competitve Smash, I actually want to see this.

 

[Wintropy]

You've much yet to learn...

(translation: you'll never convince me Kirby is underrated. )

I still think he has enough options in the neutral to bait and punish hard. I know my opinion is unpopular, especially with what we've seen of him in the meta thus far, but I will continue to maintain it.

Hey, that's fine. I don't want to convince you otherwise, I'm just telling you why people disagree with you and offering evidence to support what I'm saying.

If you think Kirby's competitively viable, good for you! I just don't see it myself, and to be honest, there comes a point at which you're just holding onto an unpopular opinion for the sake of it and disregarding the fact that there's a different perspective to consider.

 

[AirshBornely]

Alright, now that I cooled off...
Who here has Xenoblade Chronicles X pre-ordered and is ready to go ham tomorrow?
I bet you I'm gonna take 10 hours with character customization. Or a month.

I just did recently actually. Tbh, I"m only really getting the special edition for the usb... (Seems silly I know)

 

[Deleted member]

Despite my dislike for competitve Smash, I actually want to see this.

Here you go! Watch the bloodshed. Not sure if the video automatically skipped but the matches start at 7:41.

 

[Rinku リンク]

He is our boy...

in Project M and Smash 4.

#20HOHOHOHOHOHO

Ahaha I see what you did tharrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Milo AKA Papa]

Video game awards have started for those interested!
http://www.twitch.tv/thegameawards

 

[praline]

I finally got the cool beret on Splatoon. Tomorrow niht is the splatfest, right?

 

[~Skelly~]

Here you go! Watch the bloodshed. Not sure if the video automatically skipped but the matches start at 7:41.

That was very pleasing to watch. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Deleted member]

I forgot to show you guys this, here's some footage of me from a Melee tourney I went to last month:

The video's set to start where my matches begin, so don't worry about the length. My matches end at the 2:57:00 mark! I used , , and !

Note: Yes, I am the black guy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Splatoon just won best multilayer game of the year

 

[Rinku リンク]

Here you go! Watch the bloodshed. Not sure if the video automatically skipped but the matches start at 7:41.

Yo that was sickkkkkk

 

[Wintropy]

In more important news, the sequel to Shaq Fu was just confirmed.

This is better than Smash.

 

[Ffamran]

In more important news, the sequel to Shaq Fu was just confirmed.

This is better than Smash.

Wait, wasn't it confirmed a while ago?

 

[Wintropy]

Wait, wasn't it confirmed a while ago?

It was confirmed to have reached its Indiegogo goal, but now it's been formally revealed to the public.

 

[Ffamran]

It was confirmed to have reached its Indiegogo goal, but now it's been formally revealed to the public.

... Didn't it being public happen a while too? I mean, this teaser was released almost 2 years ago and I consider that going public.

 

[Wintropy]

... Didn't it being public happen a while too? I mean, this teaser was released almost 2 years ago and I consider that going public.

...Really?

Evidently everybody I've met has been living under a rock since then.

 

[Yaki]

Some Trash is okay guys.

Main who you wanna main.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Got featured at EMG's weekly plays ayyyy

 

[Izayoi]

I just did recently actually. Tbh, I"m only really getting the special edition for the usb... (Seems silly I know)

I had to google the special edition and it's honestly not a bad deal.

 

[~Skelly~]

Wait a minute, it should be late at night or ealy morning in Ireland right now. Wintropy , you're not going through a Smashboards binge today (or would it be considered "yesterday" your time?), are you?

Edit: Nevermind. You logged out.

Speaking of Shaq Fu, I'm actually interested on how the new game is going to turn out.

 

[Deleted member]

Two weeks into working my new job and one of my managers hate me already.
So glad to be off tomorrow. I need a day off from that jerk.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Two weeks into working my new job and one of my managers hate me already.
So glad to be off tomorrow. I need a day off from that jerk.

Would you be free for some matches tomorrow Sanae-chan?

 

[praline]

Two weeks into working my new job and one of my managers hate me already.
So glad to be off tomorrow. I need a day off from that jerk.

That sounds like me so much. Excpet I've worked here 8 years and my boss has been where I work for 1 1/2 years.

 

[~Skelly~]

That sounds like me so much. Excpet I've worked here 8 years and my boss has been where I work for 1 1/2 years.

Reminds me of my first job. People becoming my bosses despite my longer time and experience there.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Two weeks into working my new job and one of my managers hate me already.
So glad to be off tomorrow. I need a day off from that jerk.

My sister has been through some of the worst managers on the planet. After witnessing her go through several jobs, here is my conclusion: most lower-class managers are sexist. Even the she-managers are. I'm afraid you may have to put up with this for the rest of your natural life.

If you're free this weekend, that'd be a good time to play some matches.


@Feelicks we still need to play some matches, don't we. I guess that would have to happen tomorrow. I'm feeling pretty bad, and almost threw up during my research presentation this morning. I think I have some sort of flu/food-poisoning hybrid. Too much strain on body and mind wouldn't help me ATM, unfortunately. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow, at least enough to play some matches.

 

[praline]

Reminds me of my first job. People becoming my bosses despite my longer time and experience there.

Oh no my boss has been with the company for 31 years, he's only been at my store for the year and a half.

 

[~Skelly~]

Oh no my boss has been with the company for 31 years, he's only been at my store for the year and a half.

Ohhhhh. Well that's different then.

 

[praline]

Ohhhhh. Well that's different then.

Yeah lol

Too bad he acts like everyone's an idiot and he can do no wrong. Someone years back actually got in a fight woth him and laid him out. He's had his car keyed aswell from what I've heard.

 

[Deleted member]

My sister has been through some of the worst managers on the planet. After witnessing her go through several jobs, here is my conclusion: most lower-class managers are sexist. Even the she-managers are. I'm afraid you may have to put up with this for the rest of your natural life.

If you're free this weekend, that'd be a good time to play some matches.


@Feelicks we still need to play some matches, don't we. I guess that would have to happen tomorrow. I'm feeling pretty bad, and almost threw up during my research presentation this morning. I think I have some sort of flu/food-poisoning hybrid. Too much strain on body and mind wouldn't help me ATM, unfortunately. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow, at least enough to play some matches.

Yeah, I was about to head to bed just now so tomorrow is better. Hope you feel better, being sick always sucks no matter what it is.

 

[Deleted member]

Would you be free for some matches tomorrow Sanae-chan?

Sure, if you like!

That sounds like me so much. Excpet I've worked here 8 years and my boss has been where I work for 1 1/2 years.

I bet that sucks, having a boss that hasn't been around as long as you have. I haven't experienced that yet though lol.

My sister has been through some of the worst managers on the planet. After witnessing her go through several jobs, here is my conclusion: most lower-class managers are sexist. Even the she-managers are. I'm afraid you may have to put up with this for the rest of your natural life.

She's not sexist, more like racist. She's so sweet to the black workers (she's half white half black, I'm white) and treats one white worker well (because she's a team leader) and the rest neutral. But me, oh god, she has it in for me. She just hates me but that's okay the feeling is mutual~

 

[praline]

Sure, if you like!


I bet that sucks, having a boss that hasn't been around as long as you have. I haven't experienced that yet though lol.


She's not sexist, more like racist. She's so sweet to the black workers (she's half white half black, I'm white) and treats one white worker well (because she's a team leader) and the rest neutral. But me, oh god, she has it in for me. She just hates me but that's okay the feeling is mutual~

Well he's only been with my store for the aforementioned time, but he's been with the company for longer than I've existed. 31 years. I actually had a boss that was with the company less than I had and he was fine. He was pretty chill, sadly he's not with the company anymore.