Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[Rinku リンク]

Yo guys, I made a tier list.

Some notes:

• Was really unsure where to place . I really feel like he's a great character and that people overvalued his dthrow nerf. He's still a combo monster and has amazing frame data and KO power.
• Miis on this list are 1111, default size.
• Yes, , & are that good.
• Was split on whether to place or above one another, I guess they're tied.
• "Felix, why are , and out of bottom tier?" They have better results than all the other bottom tiers, Sol and Alphicans have done very well with Mac, ESAM, Depth and Johnny Westside with Samus, and Prince Ramen & IceNinja with Pally.
• Yes, , , , and are that bad.
• Peeps would probably want higher, but he doesn't really have all the results to be and how good he is is mostly based on theorycraft at this point considering his huge lack of tournament representation.

I feel like you placed Barf Marth too high. He's still a pretty solid character but he's just honestly not as good as he use to be. Everything else I'm alright with for the most part.

 

[Wintropy]

Yo guys, I made a tier list.

Some notes:

• Was really unsure where to place . I really feel like he's a great character and that people overvalued his dthrow nerf. He's still a combo monster and has amazing frame data and KO power.
• Miis on this list are 1111, default size.
• Yes, , & are that good.
• Was split on whether to place or above one another, I guess they're tied.
• "Felix, why are , and out of bottom tier?" They have better results than all the other bottom tiers, Sol and Alphicans have done very well with Mac, ESAM, Depth and Johnny Westside with Samus, and Prince Ramen & IceNinja with Pally.
• Yes, , , , and are that bad.
• Peeps would probably want higher, but he doesn't really have all the results to be and how good he is is mostly based on theorycraft at this point considering his huge lack of tournament representation.

Oh man I love critiquing these things~

Okay first off I don't think Pikachu is Top 5. I'd probably put Rosie above Ryu too, since Ryu's meta is still developing and he doesn't have kind of rep Rosie does. I'd be hesitant to put anybody in S tier (I don't think the distinction between characters at the top is that distinct), I think an A+ tier would suffice.

I don't think Mario is Top 10, and I'd say Fox and Sonic beat him pretty convincingly to that spot. And Pikachu, for that matter.

Yoshi isn't that good, definitely not better than Diddy, Ness, Wario and Villager.

The Pits are too low. I'd put them in mid-B tier, definitely above Pac-Man and Olimar, probably Luigi.

WHY IS GRENINJA THAT LOW FROGGY RAGE. I'd put him above the Pits, definitely should be at least in B-tier.

No way Link is better than Robin. I'd say Robin could fit into the tier above easily, they're pretty damn good.

I'd put Lucario higher, you can't count out his gimmick. Too volatile.

I can't justify putting Palutena over Junior or even Shulk.

I'd honestly swap Bowser and Dedede. Put Ganondorf and Metwo a bit higher.

No way Lucina is that low - she's invalidated by Marth, but she's an okay character otherwise.

Mii Swordighter isn't bottom-tier, and Mii Brawler definitely isn't the worst character.

Bottom tier is way too big if you ask me. No way are there that many unviable characters.

 

[Kotor]

My goodness that's...that's a huge list...
...
It's not "Gandroff", right?

No.

Canderous Ordo, Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Calo Nord, Davik Kang, Saul Karath, Vrook Lamar, Trask Ulgo, Zelka Forn, Galon Lor, Brejik, Ahlan Matale, Nurik Sandral, Griff Vao, Gadon Thek, Uthar Wynn, Vandar Tokare, Junix Nard, Nemo, Matton Dasol, Dave Johnson, Dorak Quinn, Rukil, Gluupor, Shaelas, Handon Guld, Calder Nettic, Rickard Lusoff, Ithorak Guldar, Gorse Bendak, Tamlen, Davin Kotras, Adum Larp, Roland Wann, Ziagrom.

 

[Wintropy]

Okay, this is my equivalent of a tier list. Rather than dividing every character into an individual spot (which I don't think is very helpful with the game still young and developing), I'm going to divide characters up based on how relevant I believe they are to the current metagame. This is not a true tier list in the traditional sense, it's more so a depiction of who's considered a distinct threat in the meta and who's most likely to win relevant high-level events, relative to others. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

A - Greatest tournament threats, the most relevant in the current meta and the most likely to win relevant high-level events

B - Respectable threats, either very relevant in the current meta or very likely to become relevant in the immediate future

C - Not currently very relevant, but displays good potential and has room to grow in future

D - Not currently relevant, has non-trivial flaws and not very likely to win a relevant event

A



B



C



D

​

 

[Rinku リンク]

Anyone feel like smashing?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh man I love critiquing these things~

Okay first off I don't think Pikachu is Top 5. I'd probably put Rosie above Ryu too, since Ryu's meta is still developing and he doesn't have kind of rep Rosie does. I'd be hesitant to put anybody in S tier (I don't think the distinction between characters at the top is that distinct), I think an A+ tier would suffice.

I don't think Mario is Top 10, and I'd say Fox and Sonic beat him pretty convincingly to that spot. And Pikachu, for that matter.

Yoshi isn't that good, definitely not better than Diddy, Ness, Wario and Villager.

The Pits are too low. I'd put them in mid-B tier, definitely above Pac-Man and Olimar, probably Luigi.

WHY IS GRENINJA THAT LOW FROGGY RAGE. I'd put him above the Pits, definitely should be at least in B-tier.

No way Link is better than Robin. I'd say Robin could fit into the tier above easily, they're pretty damn good.

I'd put Lucario higher, you can't count out his gimmick. Too volatile.

I can't justify putting Palutena over Junior or even Shulk.

I'd honestly swap Bowser and Dedede. Put Ganondorf and Metwo a bit higher.

No way Lucina is that low - she's invalidated by Marth, but she's an okay character otherwise.

Mii Swordighter isn't bottom-tier, and Mii Brawler definitely isn't the worst character.

Bottom tier is way too big if you ask me. No way are there that many unviable characters.

All of these are actually good points, actually! I disagree about Pika not being Top 5 and Mario not being Top 10. Their results and their abilities are some of the most able of any character, especially for someone as widely repped as Mario. Otherwise, your counterpoints are pretty reasonable imo.

Anyone feel like smashing?

ME ME ME PICK ME

 

[Wintropy]

All of these are actually good points, actually! I disagree about Pika not being Top 5 and Mario not being Top 10. Their results and their abilities are some of the most able of any character, especially for someone as widely repped as Mario. Otherwise, your counterpoints are pretty reasonable imo.

Yeah, in hindsight I meant "not Top 5" with Mario, but I realised he wasn't even Top 5 in your list.

I think Pika is Top 10 for sure, but I struggle with 5. Except for ESAM and maybe a couple of others, nobody's really doing great work with him to justify it in my opinon.

 

[Rinku リンク]

ME ME ME PICK ME

Sorry I had to take the opportunity for that one. Sure, I'll host the room.

 

[Célja]

I need to go to tournaments, but college is a thing and I don't know how I'd fit in going to a local which I think is still active in my area.

Célja ,

Do you know if that biweekly in Columbus (???) (which iirc is at some Donato's (basement) on High Street...?) is still active?

Another thing I'm worried about is if the people that attend the local are any good, because Smash scenes can vary in strength.

Célja , also please tell me the players that attend this biweekly/the tournies in your area aren't totally free. Having this region be weak would make me

Yeah it's still going on every other Tuesday. It's the one near the Buckeye Donuts and the Union.

While we have a few amount of newbies and free people, a chunk of us are very capable

Spoiler: large image

About 5 of the people on here; Suyon, Karinole, Carls, Crazycolorz, and me almost always show up at the biweeklies (the Suyon guy just pops up after we keep telling him to show.) Every once in a while my roommate JT (the Sonic/Falcon player) will show up too, he also plays Link and he would probably want to ditto you. Unfortunately you'll have to get used to the many Rosalumas that play around here.

We've just had a pretty good Ness make his name known around here in the past couple weeks, but the biweekly as a whole runs all over the skill spectrum. I know we're actually thinking of hosting a couple tournaments here soon like in the next couple weeks, and then one in the end of February.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, this is my equivalent of a tier list. Rather than dividing every character into an individual spot (which I don't think is very helpful with the game still young and developing), I'm going to divide characters up based on how relevant I believe they are to the current metagame. This is not a true tier list in the traditional sense, it's more so a depiction of who's considered a distinct threat in the meta and who's most likely to win relevant high-level events, relative to others. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

A - Greatest tournament threats, the most relevant in the current meta and the most likely to win relevant high-level events

B - Respectable threats, either very relevant in the current meta or very likely to become relevant in the immediate future

C - Not currently very relevant, but displays good potential and has room to grow in future

D - Not currently relevant, has non-trivial flaws and not very likely to win a relevant event

A



B



C



D

​

This is looking p nice.

I'm so glad somebody feels the same way I do about Kirby. He's definitely not viable at top level.

 

[Devil May Plop]

I might get Triforce Heroes for Christmas, just so anyone who wants to play with me on that wants to know.

Also, thanks for the avi, Koiba !

 

[Nah]

I have literally no tournament experience, actually.

Neither do I. I probably should find some local to go to sometime, probably wouldn't be too hard since I live in New Jersey, but I also feel like I'm not ready so.....

...Speaking of tourneys, when are you guys holding another RST Tournament?

@Zareidriel opened signups for Symphony of Scales 3 earlier today actually.

Though I suppose it's technically not really a RST tourney since it's a Robin dittos tourney.

 

[Koiba]

Also Koiba how do you get images to have a transparent background anyway? I can't figure out how to do that on GIMP.

I use the magical eraser and other things in PS~ :3

Also have a drawing tablet so I can erase alot of hidden cursed white detail

 

[Rinku リンク]

GGs @Feelicks. Those matches were fun. Thanks for playing with me!

 

[Deleted member]

GGs. Those were definitely fun. Though my is really rusty. Sigh.

Do you mind if you could give any pointers as to what I did wrong when we played?

 

[praline]

Anyone else not care about Xenoblade Chronicles X?

 

[Kotor]

Anyone else not care about Xenoblade Chronicles X?

It's alright. Not every game has to appeal to everyone. Something I wish certain people would realize.

My goodness that's...that's a huge list...
...
It's not "Gandroff", right?

You're at least correct in it not being Gandroff. In fact, in belongs to an NPC. Now, I'll give you a little hint.

Of all the names listed, one of them wouldn't even make sense to have in the Star Wars Universe.

Canderous Ordo, Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Calo Nord, Davik Kang, Saul Karath, Vrook Lamar, Trask Ulgo, Zelka Forn, Galon Lor, Brejik, Ahlan Matale, Nurik Sandral, Griff Vao, Gadon Thek, Uthar Wynn, Vandar Tokare, Junix Nard, Nemo, Matton Dasol, Dave Johnson, Dorak Quinn, Rukil, Gandroff, Gluupor, Shaelas, Handon Guld, Calder Nettic, Rickard Lusoff, Ithorak Guldar, Gorse Bendak, Tamlen, Davin Kotras, Adum Larp, Roland Wann, Ziagrom.

 

[AmericanDJ]

Do you know who can cure this thread of ****posting?

.

Not Space Stranger .
(Not giving you any ideas)

 

[~Skelly~]

You're at least correct in it not being Gandroff. In fact, in belongs to an NPC. Now, I'll give you a little hint.

Of all the names listed, one of them wouldn't even make sense to have in the Star Wars Universe.

Canderous Ordo, Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Calo Nord, Davik Kang, Saul Karath, Vrook Lamar, Trask Ulgo, Zelka Forn, Galon Lor, Brejik, Ahlan Matale, Nurik Sandral, Griff Vao, Gadon Thek, Uthar Wynn, Vandar Tokare, Junix Nard, Nemo, Matton Dasol, Dave Johnson, Dorak Quinn, Rukil, Gandroff, Gluupor, Shaelas, Handon Guld, Calder Nettic, Rickard Lusoff, Ithorak Guldar, Gorse Bendak, Tamlen, Davin Kotras, Adum Larp, Roland Wann, Ziagrom.

My turn. Dave Johnson?

 

[The Merc]

Looks like everyone is getting into the Christmas spirit.

Well might as well join you. Now, I just need to find an approbate avatar. Hmmmm..........

I figured you Robin Social fellas would appreciate the avatar and user title pun.

Blame Champ Black for reminding me.

*Ylisse Navidad*

I don't get it.

 

[Rinku リンク]

GGs. Those were definitely fun. Though my is really rusty. Sigh.

Do you mind if you could give any pointers as to what I did wrong when we played?

Honestly your is pretty solid keep at it and you'll get better for sure. As for tips in general:

"Challenging" and "Evading" - You'll naturally get better with this with experience but know when you can challenge your opponents move and when you need to evade it.
Things to keep mind are frame data and range. (For ex. our vsmatch you took about 5 consecutive f-airs trying to challenge it).

After about the 2nd or 3rd one you should have considered evading and air dodging to avoid further damage. Knowing the limits of your characters move set AND your opponents are key to utilizing this effectively.

"Recovering" - Every match you always seem to recover the same way and never really mixed up your options at the ledge either. This makes it easier for your opponent to take advantage of your position and perhaps even send you off stage again.

You want to mix up how you recover and how you get up from the ledge. Recovering "High" is an option but it's extremely risky and dangerous for some characters and could get you severely punished.

Recovering low in my opinion is one of the best ways to recover considering not every character can edge guard low without risking not making it back. But be sure to mix it up from time to time so your opponent doesn't read you.

Anyway I hope that helps a bit, you're a good player Feels you just need to keep practicing and naturally you'll get better over time.

 

[Rashyboy05]

Anyone else not care about Xenoblade Chronicles X?

I ain't got a WIIU so I have no reason to care for it. Yet.

Of all the names listed, one of them wouldn't even make sense to have in the Star Wars Universe.

Canderous Ordo, Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Calo Nord, Davik Kang, Saul Karath, Vrook Lamar, Trask Ulgo, Zelka Forn, Galon Lor, Brejik, Ahlan Matale, Nurik Sandral, Griff Vao, Gadon Thek, Uthar Wynn, Vandar Tokare, Junix Nard, Nemo, Matton Dasol, Dave Johnson, Dorak Quinn, Rukil, Gandroff, Gluupor, Shaelas, Handon Guld, Calder Nettic, Rickard Lusoff, Ithorak Guldar, Gorse Bendak, Tamlen, Davin Kotras, Adum Larp, Roland Wann, Ziagrom.

Nemo?

 

[Space Stranger]

Not Space Stranger .
(Not giving you any ideas)

Ayy, that means it's obviously time to ****post without reason.

 

[Kotor]

My turn. Dave Johnson?

We have a winner!

As for you, @Izayoi...

 

[Opossum]

Looks like everyone is getting into the Christmas spirit.

Well might as well join you. Now, I just need to find an approbate avatar. Hmmmm..........



*Ylisse Navidad*

I don't get it.

Ylisse, as in, the halidom from which Chrom resides and rules over.
Feliz Navidad is "Merry Christmas" in Spanish.
Ylisse and Feliz rhyme for the most part.
Puns.

Okay, this is my equivalent of a tier list. Rather than dividing every character into an individual spot (which I don't think is very helpful with the game still young and developing), I'm going to divide characters up based on how relevant I believe they are to the current metagame. This is not a true tier list in the traditional sense, it's more so a depiction of who's considered a distinct threat in the meta and who's most likely to win relevant high-level events, relative to others. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

A - Greatest tournament threats, the most relevant in the current meta and the most likely to win relevant high-level events

B - Respectable threats, either very relevant in the current meta or very likely to become relevant in the immediate future

C - Not currently very relevant, but displays good potential and has room to grow in future

D - Not currently relevant, has non-trivial flaws and not very likely to win a relevant event

A



B



C



D

​

This seems about right. The only thing I'd do is move Pac-Man a bit higher and maaaaaaaybe Olimar up a bit (though I'm conflicted about Olimar. He really isn't very relevant in tournaments and he's in fact one of the lesser-played characters, but he dominates when he's used).


Also you forgot Samus.



EDIT: Whoops, didn't see the "characters aren't ordered within tiers" thing. I can't read.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly your is pretty solid keep at it and you'll get better for sure. As for tips in general:

"Challenging" and "Evading" - You'll naturally get better with this with experience but know when you can challenge your opponents move and when you need to evade it.
Things to keep mind are frame data and range. (For ex. our vsmatch you took about 5 consecutive f-airs trying to challenge it).

After about the 2nd or 3rd one you should have considered evading and air dodging to avoid further damage. Knowing the limits of your characters move set AND your opponents are key to utilizing this effectively.

"Recovering" - Every match you always seem to recover the same way and never really mixed up your options at the ledge either. This makes it easier for your opponent to take advantage of your position and perhaps even send you off stage again.

You want to mix up how you recover and how you get up from the ledge. Recovering "High" is an option but it's extremely risky and dangerous for some characters and could get you severely punished.

Recovering low in my opinion is one of the best ways to recover considering not every character can edge guard low without risking not making it back. But be sure to mix it up from time to time so your opponent doesn't read you.

Anyway I hope that helps a bit, you're a good player Feels you just need to keep practicing and naturally you'll get better over time.

Thanks for the advice, dude. I'll definitely keep this in mind. I never noticed how stale I was being with recovering and ledge mixups.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Thanks for the advice, dude. I'll definitely keep this in mind. I never noticed how stale I was being with recovering and ledge mixups.

It's a pleasure really, I use to be the "mentor" for my group of friends back in the Brawl days so giving advice on how to improve is sort of my forte lol.

 

[Wintropy]

This seems about right. The only thing I'd do is move Pac-Man a bit higher and maaaaaaaybe Olimar up a bit (though I'm conflicted about Olimar. He really isn't very relevant in tournaments and he's in fact one of the lesser-played characters, but he dominates when he's used).

Yeah, I was gonna point out that they're not ordered within tiers, but you got that yourself~ ;3

I think ordering characters within tiers is something best left to the Back Room, this is just a very essential rundown of whom I believe is and is not currently viable (and to what extent).

Also you forgot Samus.

Thank you, fixed!

I put her in D tier, because while I think she is a very underrated character that has potential to evolve in the meta, I think she has significant flaws and that hinders her. She isn't very relevant right now beyond maybe a regional level at best, but a few buffs in the right place and I'd definitely call her viable.

 

[Deleted member]

Samus has the best toolkit out of all the low tiers as it is right now. Once she gets some hitbox fixes and damage/knockback buffs to certain moves (like down smash and missiles, pleaseeee), she definitely is going ways in this game.

 

[Wintropy]

Samus has the best toolkit out of all the low tiers as it is right now. Once she gets some hitbox fixes and damage/knockback buffs to certain moves (like down smash and missiles, pleaseeee), she definitely is going ways in this game.

Yeah I'd say she's in the same sticky situation as release Ike and MK: great kit and could be very good, but is held back by weird hitboxes, unsafe frame data, poor disadvantage and some moves that just don't work.

Fundamentally there's nothing objectively broken or unfixable about her, she's just mediocre in every way that matters. I hope she's buffed in future, she'd definitely be a respectable character if her (mostly superficial) issues were tweaked.

 

[praline]

I might get Triforce Heroes for Christmas, just so anyone who wants to play with me on that wants to know.

Also, thanks for the avi, Koiba !

Are you in America/Canada cause if not then booooo

 

[Devil May Plop]

Spoiler: Conquest and Divine Decree in PXZ2.

Are you in America/Canada cause if not then booooo

I'm in 'Merica, yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I'd say she's in the same sticky situation as release Ike and MK: great kit and could be very good, but is held back by weird hitboxes, unsafe frame data, poor disadvantage and some moves that just don't work.

Fundamentally there's nothing objectively broken or unfixable about her, she's just mediocre in every way that matters. I hope she's buffed in future, she'd definitely be a respectable character if her (mostly superficial) issues were tweaked.

Pre-patch Ike and MK were such messes around the time the game came out, lol. I was so disappointed in them after how much I played as both characters in Brawl, particularly MK but the nerf hammer was coming towards him one way or the other. Thank goodness balance patches have helped them out.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

*yawn*

Good mornin' y'all. Not really morning for me, but I just got up from a very long and fitful nap. I'm not really feeling it today.

Lots of posts to catch up on. I may go back to bed after this.

Yo guys, I made a tier list.

Some notes:

• Was really unsure where to place . I really feel like he's a great character and that people overvalued his dthrow nerf. He's still a combo monster and has amazing frame data and KO power.
• Miis on this list are 1111, default size.
• Yes, , & are that good.
• Was split on whether to place or above one another, I guess they're tied.
• "Felix, why are , and out of bottom tier?" They have better results than all the other bottom tiers, Sol and Alphicans have done very well with Mac, ESAM, Depth and Johnny Westside with Samus, and Prince Ramen & IceNinja with Pally.
• Yes, , , , and are that bad.
• Peeps would probably want higher, but he doesn't really have all the results to be and how good he is is mostly based on theorycraft at this point considering his huge lack of tournament representation.

Kaabii and Rabinz are too low. Robin could go up a tier. Kirby could go up at least one. Mark my words: Kirby has yet to leave his mark in the meta.

Also, Ryu is pretty damn good, but I wouldn't say that good. Maybe I just think that because I main Meta Knight and Robin.

Dedede needs his own tier. It shall be called the SSS tier.

Okay, this is my equivalent of a tier list. Rather than dividing every character into an individual spot (which I don't think is very helpful with the game still young and developing), I'm going to divide characters up based on how relevant I believe they are to the current metagame. This is not a true tier list in the traditional sense, it's more so a depiction of who's considered a distinct threat in the meta and who's most likely to win relevant high-level events, relative to others. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

A - Greatest tournament threats, the most relevant in the current meta and the most likely to win relevant high-level events

B - Respectable threats, either very relevant in the current meta or very likely to become relevant in the immediate future

C - Not currently very relevant, but displays good potential and has room to grow in future

D - Not currently relevant, has non-trivial flaws and not very likely to win a relevant event

A



B



C



D

​

Kaabii is way too low. Not that you did anything wrong, it's just the bozos in the meta game have yet to identify Kirby's raw power. I at least agree that he isn't really relevant to the meta at the moment, but mark my words: Kirby has yet to leave his mark in the meta.



Kirby's the one.

Ylisse Navidad

 

[Wintropy]

Kaabii is way too low. Not that you did anything wrong, it's just the bozos in the meta game have yet to identify Kirby's raw power. I at least agree that he isn't really relevant to the meta at the moment, but mark my words: Kirby has yet to leave his mark in the meta.



Kirby's the one.

Nah Kirby's not that good. He has decent frame data and great combo potential, but he has some of the weakest approach options in the game, no good answer to shield, underwhelming specials (especially Hammer and Stone) and his recovery is more of a liability than a decent recovery or attack option.

With customs he's probably viable, since Jumping Inhale is much better at shield pressure than default Inhale (and has the added benefit of being a suicide, which can make opponents more careful of what they do in neutral) and Upper Cutter is an actually decent recovery and OOS option, but in default he's mediocre. Even his matchup spread is so-so at best (and no, he does not go even with Sheik).

 

[Gamegenie222]

So gorls I have a tournament in a few weeks~

Anybody here have tournament experience? :3

I do and I'm ranked on my pr #2 atm but bumping down to 3 soon. I also help make my pr in my regional.

I need to go to tournaments, but college is a thing and I don't know how I'd fit in going to a local which I think is still active in my area.

Célja ,

Do you know if that biweekly in Columbus (???) (which iirc is at some Donato's (basement) on High Street...?) is still active?

Another thing I'm worried about is if the people that attend the local are any good, because Smash scenes can vary in strength.

Célja , also please tell me the players that attend this biweekly/the tournies in your area aren't totally free. Having this region be weak would make me

Brah don't be scared and go. Regarding of an area of having lesser skilled players than yourself you can still learn from said people. Also your folks region has a decent samus player named Hman, Shugo a old brawl falco/sonic head whose really good but don't play the game much from what I hear. Also it will be a good learning experience like I said especially if your a online warrior and only used to online. At least you cats are nearby Michigan and what not I'm in Nebraska and the closest high lvl comp near me is MJG in Kansas and other old brawl heads in Kansas and Chicago which is 7 hours away.

EDIT: Oh I also forgot about Katakiri a decent MK player as well.

 

[Nah]

Man if they let Samus charge Charge Shot in the air like everyone else with a chargeable projectile can that'd help her so much.

Well that and making her jab functional and making missiles/Super Missiles less ****

 

[Deleted member]

Nah Kirby's not that good. He has decent frame data and great combo potential, but he has some of the weakest approach options in the game, no good answer to shield, underwhelming specials (especially Hammer and Stone) and his recovery is more of a liability than a decent recovery or attack option.

With customs he's probably viable, since Jumping Inhale is much better at shield pressure than default Inhale (and has the added benefit of being a suicide, which can make opponents more careful of what they do in neutral) and Upper Cutter is an actually decent recovery and OOS option, but in default he's mediocre. Even his matchup spread is so-so at best (and no, he does not go even with Sheik).

This gal gets it. I've pretty much dropped Kirby for serious play in this game. 64, Brawl and PM Kirbs for life.

One thing that pisses me off is how they changed Hammer, a damn fine KO move in Brawl that gave awesome reward off reads, into a move like Hammer Bash for a character that already has a ton of trouble approaching anyways. That move is practicially useless in 1v1 as nobody's gonna fall for a fully charged Hammer Bash, and the uncharged hammer is laughably weak.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Nah Kirby's not that good. He has decent frame data and great combo potential, but he has some of the weakest approach options in the game, no good answer to shield, underwhelming specials (especially Hammer and Stone) and his recovery is more of a liability than a decent recovery or attack option.

With customs he's probably viable, since Jumping Inhale is much better at shield pressure than default Inhale (and has the added benefit of being a suicide, which can make opponents more careful of what they do in neutral) and Upper Cutter is an actually decent recovery and OOS option, but in default he's mediocre. Even his matchup spread is so-so at best (and no, he does not go even with Sheik).

And now, in response to this post, random thought fuel.


Kirby doesn't need good approach options. He's immune to projectiles, silly.

Do not, and I mean DO NOT, underestimate the Hammer Flip. I'm serious.

Meta Knight kinda sucks in the neutral, too, but look at where he is.

Wait... there's such a thing as characters that go even with SHEIK?!


In the hands of a pro, Kirby has enough tools to make up for his misgivings, at least in my opinion. I think you should look into it more.

 

[Koiba]

Now I don't feel as bad about dropping Kirby anymore after maining him for 6 years for full attention on Jigglypuff

Even though they're both bleh lol


Jigglypuff's way cuter tho <3

But for life