HenryXLII
Smash Journeyman
So I think it's finally high time to document a match up chart for Robin on here. I have made a very very early rough match up chart for Robin, and figured I would post it here for other Robin players to see so we can discuss where characters should be, (especially because there are quite a few characters that I simply do not have enough match up experience against.)
So here is the list. The characters are placed in order of how close I think they are to leaking into another tier. (Game and Watch came out blank for some reason)
So thats my two cents on Robin match ups. Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences, as I alone am not knowledgeable enough to make this list truly accurate. I look forward to the discussion.
So here is the list. The characters are placed in order of how close I think they are to leaking into another tier. (Game and Watch came out blank for some reason)
Snake: I actually think this match up even, if only weighted towards Snake's side. Snake has really strong frame traps and edge guarding, but Robin swat Nakita fairly easily with Levin making it not as obtrusive as it seems on paper. Furthermore, Robin's Levin Sword is capable of hitting Snake's grenades without trading, meaning Robin can bypass one of Snake's most powerful defensive tools if the player is spacing well. Lastly, Robin edge guards Snake pretty well with Levin and Thoron. All and All, I would say the match up is even.
Wolf: I think Fox and Falco are both pretty rough for Robin to fight as Fox can rush you down easily, and Falco's laser has a bad habit of disrupting your projectiles. Wolf on the other hand is one of the match ups I have played the most and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this one is even. Wolf has overall better frame data than Robin, but Robin can easily out range Wolf with Levin, and due to Wolf's fall speed, he is very easy to get reliable combos off of, along with an exploitable recovery.
That said this is all only in Robin's favor if Robin gains the advantage. So it really comes down to who outplays who.
Mario: Back in Smash 4, I would say Mario was one of Robin's more difficult match ups. Fireball was disruptive, cape could reflect, F.L.U.D, and inescapable combos. Here in ultimate however, Mario's combo game has been toned down significantly, and with the universal reduced jump squat, Robin can escape Mario's pressure and fight him in the air where Robin outranges Mario. Combine this with the new air dodge mechanics making Mario's recovery and disadvantage more exploitable, and I would say the scales have tipped on this MU significantly.
Hero: Robin has all of the tools needed to basically ignore Hero's selling point: His menu. As long as Robin plays around the menu, and zones Hero out you will find this match up to be against a character that is very immobile and who struggles to recover. Seriously, this guy looses against almost all of Robin's moves, and is only a threat because of the character's natural explosive potential.
Ness: On paper it seems like Ness has everything needed to shut Robin down, but in practice Ness tends to lose this match up in my experience due to his stubby-child-arms not competing well with Levin. Combine this with a predictable jump arch for Elthunder/Thoron snipes and the fact that Magnet only heals like 2% off of a Thoron, and it becomes apparent that Ness actually has a pretty hard time here. Just be careful with Archfire as it is a free Magnet for Ness.
Lucas: Lucas doesn't seem that different from Ness, but Lucas has significantly better tools to counter Levin than his happier counterpart. Firstly, Rope Snake is the bane of Robin's existence. It will interrupt your spells, and beat all of your Levin aerials. Further more his extended grab range and excellent throw options will give his massive punishes on moves that would normally be safe for Robin unless spaced extra carefully.
Rope Snake is not the only thing that makes this fight hard. Lucas's PK fire is much safer to throw out, and will destroy any of Robin's projectiles not named Thoron, while also walling out Robin completely. Pk Freeze is also fairly easy for Lucas to land against Robin, and if that doesn't work than a Downsmash will likely end you. I would say this is one of Robin's harder match ups, but it doesn't feel unfair. So I keep it at the more dangerous end of -1
Bowser: The main thing stopping Bowser from being free is his excellent Forward Air and speed. Bowser has the tools he needs to get in and to decimate you, it's just not easy for him. If he manages to get you off stage, the ball is in his court because Forward Air will swat your linear recovery to kingdom come. So watch out for those moments in the match. Still, Bowser struggles to deal with Archfire, and Levin's don't help him much ether.
Chrom: Chrom might seem like a difficult fight for Robin due to his crazy good rush down, but his falling speed and reliance on ground speed makes him surprisingly susceptible to Archfire. He is also easy to combo, and ledge traps against him are basically free. Still, Chrom is a rush down character with range, so be careful when you are trying to recreate the opening scene of Awakening.
Ike: Similar to Chrom, Ike struggles by being slower, though I find it is easier for him to pin you down with his oppressive N-Air. The thing that keeps this match positive is that Robin can easily guard against both Aether with Archfire and Quick Draw with Thoron. Respect Ike, and play patiently and opportunistically, and the match should stay in your favor.
Duck Hunt: This is not Robin's worst match up, but Gods when you play this match up, it really feels like it. Robin has to work overtime focusing on both the Can and the Dog, both of which are capable of ruining his spacing. This forces Robin to approach which is never a good position to be forced into. Duck Hunt's up air is particularly keen at taking advantage of your horrible disadvantage state and taking early stocks when you are above Duck Hunt (WHICH WILL BE OFTEN)
The only thing Robin has going in this match up is that Duck Hunt's disadvantage is just as bad as Robins, and the recovery is fairly easy to edge guard. But getting the Dog into that position is harder than getting a real dog to go into a cage so you can take him to the vet.
Belmonts: They delete Robin from the game. This match up feels legit hopeless in many instances. Cross basically enables them to shut down your projectiles, while giving them enough space to counter your sluggish approach. On top of this, Robin has no easy way to escape their infamous ledge traps, and has to dodge axes as he recovers. The only saving grace here is their recovery is bad, but it's not a free advantage. Thoron can also create an opening, but finding space to charge it is incredibly difficult.
Wolf: I think Fox and Falco are both pretty rough for Robin to fight as Fox can rush you down easily, and Falco's laser has a bad habit of disrupting your projectiles. Wolf on the other hand is one of the match ups I have played the most and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this one is even. Wolf has overall better frame data than Robin, but Robin can easily out range Wolf with Levin, and due to Wolf's fall speed, he is very easy to get reliable combos off of, along with an exploitable recovery.
That said this is all only in Robin's favor if Robin gains the advantage. So it really comes down to who outplays who.
Mario: Back in Smash 4, I would say Mario was one of Robin's more difficult match ups. Fireball was disruptive, cape could reflect, F.L.U.D, and inescapable combos. Here in ultimate however, Mario's combo game has been toned down significantly, and with the universal reduced jump squat, Robin can escape Mario's pressure and fight him in the air where Robin outranges Mario. Combine this with the new air dodge mechanics making Mario's recovery and disadvantage more exploitable, and I would say the scales have tipped on this MU significantly.
Hero: Robin has all of the tools needed to basically ignore Hero's selling point: His menu. As long as Robin plays around the menu, and zones Hero out you will find this match up to be against a character that is very immobile and who struggles to recover. Seriously, this guy looses against almost all of Robin's moves, and is only a threat because of the character's natural explosive potential.
Ness: On paper it seems like Ness has everything needed to shut Robin down, but in practice Ness tends to lose this match up in my experience due to his stubby-child-arms not competing well with Levin. Combine this with a predictable jump arch for Elthunder/Thoron snipes and the fact that Magnet only heals like 2% off of a Thoron, and it becomes apparent that Ness actually has a pretty hard time here. Just be careful with Archfire as it is a free Magnet for Ness.
Lucas: Lucas doesn't seem that different from Ness, but Lucas has significantly better tools to counter Levin than his happier counterpart. Firstly, Rope Snake is the bane of Robin's existence. It will interrupt your spells, and beat all of your Levin aerials. Further more his extended grab range and excellent throw options will give his massive punishes on moves that would normally be safe for Robin unless spaced extra carefully.
Rope Snake is not the only thing that makes this fight hard. Lucas's PK fire is much safer to throw out, and will destroy any of Robin's projectiles not named Thoron, while also walling out Robin completely. Pk Freeze is also fairly easy for Lucas to land against Robin, and if that doesn't work than a Downsmash will likely end you. I would say this is one of Robin's harder match ups, but it doesn't feel unfair. So I keep it at the more dangerous end of -1
Bowser: The main thing stopping Bowser from being free is his excellent Forward Air and speed. Bowser has the tools he needs to get in and to decimate you, it's just not easy for him. If he manages to get you off stage, the ball is in his court because Forward Air will swat your linear recovery to kingdom come. So watch out for those moments in the match. Still, Bowser struggles to deal with Archfire, and Levin's don't help him much ether.
Chrom: Chrom might seem like a difficult fight for Robin due to his crazy good rush down, but his falling speed and reliance on ground speed makes him surprisingly susceptible to Archfire. He is also easy to combo, and ledge traps against him are basically free. Still, Chrom is a rush down character with range, so be careful when you are trying to recreate the opening scene of Awakening.
Ike: Similar to Chrom, Ike struggles by being slower, though I find it is easier for him to pin you down with his oppressive N-Air. The thing that keeps this match positive is that Robin can easily guard against both Aether with Archfire and Quick Draw with Thoron. Respect Ike, and play patiently and opportunistically, and the match should stay in your favor.
Duck Hunt: This is not Robin's worst match up, but Gods when you play this match up, it really feels like it. Robin has to work overtime focusing on both the Can and the Dog, both of which are capable of ruining his spacing. This forces Robin to approach which is never a good position to be forced into. Duck Hunt's up air is particularly keen at taking advantage of your horrible disadvantage state and taking early stocks when you are above Duck Hunt (WHICH WILL BE OFTEN)
The only thing Robin has going in this match up is that Duck Hunt's disadvantage is just as bad as Robins, and the recovery is fairly easy to edge guard. But getting the Dog into that position is harder than getting a real dog to go into a cage so you can take him to the vet.
Belmonts: They delete Robin from the game. This match up feels legit hopeless in many instances. Cross basically enables them to shut down your projectiles, while giving them enough space to counter your sluggish approach. On top of this, Robin has no easy way to escape their infamous ledge traps, and has to dodge axes as he recovers. The only saving grace here is their recovery is bad, but it's not a free advantage. Thoron can also create an opening, but finding space to charge it is incredibly difficult.
So thats my two cents on Robin match ups. Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences, as I alone am not knowledgeable enough to make this list truly accurate. I look forward to the discussion.
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