Time To List The Matchups!

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
So I think it's finally high time to document a match up chart for Robin on here. I have made a very very early rough match up chart for Robin, and figured I would post it here for other Robin players to see so we can discuss where characters should be, (especially because there are quite a few characters that I simply do not have enough match up experience against.)

So here is the list. The characters are placed in order of how close I think they are to leaking into another tier. (Game and Watch came out blank for some reason)

my-image.png



Snake: I actually think this match up even, if only weighted towards Snake's side. Snake has really strong frame traps and edge guarding, but Robin swat Nakita fairly easily with Levin making it not as obtrusive as it seems on paper. Furthermore, Robin's Levin Sword is capable of hitting Snake's grenades without trading, meaning Robin can bypass one of Snake's most powerful defensive tools if the player is spacing well. Lastly, Robin edge guards Snake pretty well with Levin and Thoron. All and All, I would say the match up is even.

Wolf: I think Fox and Falco are both pretty rough for Robin to fight as Fox can rush you down easily, and Falco's laser has a bad habit of disrupting your projectiles. Wolf on the other hand is one of the match ups I have played the most and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this one is even. Wolf has overall better frame data than Robin, but Robin can easily out range Wolf with Levin, and due to Wolf's fall speed, he is very easy to get reliable combos off of, along with an exploitable recovery.

That said this is all only in Robin's favor if Robin gains the advantage. So it really comes down to who outplays who.

Mario: Back in Smash 4, I would say Mario was one of Robin's more difficult match ups. Fireball was disruptive, cape could reflect, F.L.U.D, and inescapable combos. Here in ultimate however, Mario's combo game has been toned down significantly, and with the universal reduced jump squat, Robin can escape Mario's pressure and fight him in the air where Robin outranges Mario. Combine this with the new air dodge mechanics making Mario's recovery and disadvantage more exploitable, and I would say the scales have tipped on this MU significantly.

Hero: Robin has all of the tools needed to basically ignore Hero's selling point: His menu. As long as Robin plays around the menu, and zones Hero out you will find this match up to be against a character that is very immobile and who struggles to recover. Seriously, this guy looses against almost all of Robin's moves, and is only a threat because of the character's natural explosive potential.

Ness: On paper it seems like Ness has everything needed to shut Robin down, but in practice Ness tends to lose this match up in my experience due to his stubby-child-arms not competing well with Levin. Combine this with a predictable jump arch for Elthunder/Thoron snipes and the fact that Magnet only heals like 2% off of a Thoron, and it becomes apparent that Ness actually has a pretty hard time here. Just be careful with Archfire as it is a free Magnet for Ness.

Lucas: Lucas doesn't seem that different from Ness, but Lucas has significantly better tools to counter Levin than his happier counterpart. Firstly, Rope Snake is the bane of Robin's existence. It will interrupt your spells, and beat all of your Levin aerials. Further more his extended grab range and excellent throw options will give his massive punishes on moves that would normally be safe for Robin unless spaced extra carefully.

Rope Snake is not the only thing that makes this fight hard. Lucas's PK fire is much safer to throw out, and will destroy any of Robin's projectiles not named Thoron, while also walling out Robin completely. Pk Freeze is also fairly easy for Lucas to land against Robin, and if that doesn't work than a Downsmash will likely end you. I would say this is one of Robin's harder match ups, but it doesn't feel unfair. So I keep it at the more dangerous end of -1

Bowser: The main thing stopping Bowser from being free is his excellent Forward Air and speed. Bowser has the tools he needs to get in and to decimate you, it's just not easy for him. If he manages to get you off stage, the ball is in his court because Forward Air will swat your linear recovery to kingdom come. So watch out for those moments in the match. Still, Bowser struggles to deal with Archfire, and Levin's don't help him much ether.

Chrom: Chrom might seem like a difficult fight for Robin due to his crazy good rush down, but his falling speed and reliance on ground speed makes him surprisingly susceptible to Archfire. He is also easy to combo, and ledge traps against him are basically free. Still, Chrom is a rush down character with range, so be careful when you are trying to recreate the opening scene of Awakening.

Ike: Similar to Chrom, Ike struggles by being slower, though I find it is easier for him to pin you down with his oppressive N-Air. The thing that keeps this match positive is that Robin can easily guard against both Aether with Archfire and Quick Draw with Thoron. Respect Ike, and play patiently and opportunistically, and the match should stay in your favor.

Duck Hunt: This is not Robin's worst match up, but Gods when you play this match up, it really feels like it. Robin has to work overtime focusing on both the Can and the Dog, both of which are capable of ruining his spacing. This forces Robin to approach which is never a good position to be forced into. Duck Hunt's up air is particularly keen at taking advantage of your horrible disadvantage state and taking early stocks when you are above Duck Hunt (WHICH WILL BE OFTEN)

The only thing Robin has going in this match up is that Duck Hunt's disadvantage is just as bad as Robins, and the recovery is fairly easy to edge guard. But getting the Dog into that position is harder than getting a real dog to go into a cage so you can take him to the vet.

Belmonts: They delete Robin from the game. This match up feels legit hopeless in many instances. Cross basically enables them to shut down your projectiles, while giving them enough space to counter your sluggish approach. On top of this, Robin has no easy way to escape their infamous ledge traps, and has to dodge axes as he recovers. The only saving grace here is their recovery is bad, but it's not a free advantage. Thoron can also create an opening, but finding space to charge it is incredibly difficult.

So thats my two cents on Robin match ups. Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences, as I alone am not knowledgeable enough to make this list truly accurate. I look forward to the discussion.
 
Last edited:

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
Why do you think that :ultzss::ultpalutena: are even?
Maybe I haven’t faced too many good ZSS players, but I find Robin can shut down a fair amount of her approach options with his projectiles, and her down B can lead to giant punishes if you read it right.

It really comes down to a rock paper scissors kind of match up where both players have tools that shut down the other. ZSS is also limited off stage, so she has to put herself at risk to gimp Robin, which is one of their greatest weaknesses.

With Palutena it comes down to the fact that nothing she has outright shuts Robin down, giving you space to set up your traps.

Auto-Retical and explosive flame are annoying, but she can’t outzone you with it and will eventually be forced to approach which is where any Robin wants their opponent.

The only place that’s rough in this match up is the disadvantage state, particularly that up air. This tends to force Robin to retreat to the ledge, where Palutena is less intimidating, at least in my eyes.
 
Last edited:

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
What kinda Mario's do you face?
I have faced quite a few online in both elite smash and online friendlies. I have yet to bump into one at tournament though.

A lot of the advantage is on paper as Mario lacks reach, and is fairly easy to juggle. Though that is definitely a two way street as Robin has no way out of Mario’s combos.

I’m also comparing the match up HEAVILY to Smash 4 where Mario was really rough to fight. Robin certainly has an easier time in Ultimate, and I think the match up is slightly positive, hence Mario being on the very edge of +1
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,700
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Wolf destroys.
So does ROB
 

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
Wolf destroys.
So does ROB
I disagree quite a bit regarding Wolf. His fall speed does him no favors against Robin and he has a rather difficult time getting off the ledge against arcfire. It really is a momentum based match up. Blaster can be reacted to as well.

R.O.B I can certainly see being a bit more of a struggle. R.O.B's combos are basically free against Robin, and when that means getting kills at 60 thats a big deal. The beam is also very disruptive. That said, his large size makes make him rather easy to trap and juggle, and his recovery isn't very difficult for Robin to gimp, so I would argue it's not a hopeless match up.
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,700
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I disagree quite a bit regarding Wolf. His fall speed does him no favors against Robin and he has a rather difficult time getting off the ledge against arcfire. It really is a momentum based match up. Blaster can be reacted to as well.

R.O.B I can certainly see being a bit more of a struggle. R.O.B's combos are basically free against Robin, and when that means getting kills at 60 thats a big deal. The beam is also very disruptive. That said, his large size makes make him rather easy to trap and juggle, and his recovery isn't very difficult for Robin to gimp, so I would argue it's not a hopeless match up.
Wolf combos for 60, reflects everything, and just kills at easy percents due to robins trash tier recovery, and wolf can just delay up b. There's nothing stopping wolf from giving robin hell onstage due to robin having no good combo breakers and just being tall and lanky. Lasers can be "reacted to" in the sense that shields gonna stop you from doing anything and robin is far too slow to do anything back or maneuver way and anything he tries to throw at wolf just gets reflected, and any laser counter you might have you're just playing into his plans. There's absolutely nothing stopping wolf from just completely decimating robin.
ROB controls the stage with gyro, has actual buttons where robin doesn't, his recovery can be easily delayed and its versatility is among the best in the game, Large size doesn't mean anything if he's outdoing everything you can do and keeping you in hell with nair and dtilt. Which robin has hardly any answers for.
 
Last edited:

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
oesn't, his recovery can be easily delayed and its versatility is among the best in the game, Large size doesn't mean anything if he's outdoing everything you can do and keeping you in hell with nair and dtilt. Which robin has hardly any answers for.
Perhaps you can show me. Would you be down for some games online at some point?
 

Zareidriel

zuh-RAY-dree-ole
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,145
NNID
Zareidriei
I've actually played some of the best Wolves out there (out of all characters, Wolf is my most practiced matchup and who I've faced the strongest of) and I think we have an even 50/50 shot at him. Wolf in disadvantage against Robin can have a real hell of a time and take some crazy damage, or just die. And then the exact same rule applies to Robin when she's the one in disadvantage. Smashed Nair is your best friend in that matchup.
 

Krystofr

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
16
My experience is a mix of offline and online (participating weekly). I'm a colorado player. There are two other players that I know of in our state that use Robin exclusively besides myself. Catharc and someone else who I don't know (just someone people telling me they know). Not a lot of matchup knowledge from my end when I first started, but I've been continuing to break top 3.. Most players I meet in bracket (especially the ones I've deemed as "hard") know the matchup already.

Take with a grain of salt and feel free to ask me why on any of these, this is just the top of my head. I used to love doing Brawl Matchups in the back room back when I was competitive in that game.

Here's my matchup observations:

Wario: Hard Loss
Donkey Kong: Win
Luigi: Win
Ice Climbers: Slight Win
Zelda: Slight Win
Fox: Even
Kirby: Win
Jigglypuff: Hard Win
Bowser: Win
Pichu: Slight Win
Falco: Even
Young Link: Even
Mewtwo: Slight Win
Roy: Even
GW: Win
Metaknight: Slight Win
Snake: Even
Sonic: Slight Win
Dedede: Win
Rob: Slight Loss
Toon Link: Even
Wolf: Slight Loss, Even maybe.
Villager: Slight Loss
Megaman: Slight Loss
Wii Fit Trainer: Slight Loss
Little Mac: Win
Greninja: Slight Win
Mii Brawler / Sword / Gunner: Win / Slight Win / Slight Loss
Rosalina Luma
Mario/Dr.Mario: Even/Slight Win
Palutena: Even
Pacman: Slight Loss
Ryu/Ken: Win
Cloud: Slight Loss
Corrin: Slight Win
Inkling: Slight Win
Belmonts: Even
Pirahna Plant: Win
Link: Win
Ganon: Hard Win
Pikachu: Slight Win Maybe Even
Incineroar: Win
Pokemon Trainer: Even / Win / Win (Sq/Ivy/Char)
Pit/DarkPit: Even
Isabelle: Slight Win
King K. Rool: Slight Win
Ridley: Hard Win
Lucas: Slight Loss
Ness: Slight Loss
ZSS: Slight Loss
Captain Falcon: Slight Win
Yoshi: Slight Win
Peach/Daisy: Slight Win
Marth / Lucina: Slight Win
Ike: Slight Win
Chrom: Slight Win
Joker: Loss


For the record I'm a Robin main, Villager secondary. Plan on maining Banjo when he comes out :) (matchups below I have no idea about. Dont face them.)

Bayonetta: Even???
Diddy Kong: ???????????Eeehhhh Loss?
Olimar: ???????EHHhhhhh slight win?
Lucario: Even??
Duck Hunt: Maybe even, maybe ours. I play duck hunt but never find anyone else who does.
Hero: Yes. (seriously I'd say even but it could be much worse or better, I don't ever meet consistent hero mains (lul))
 
Last edited:

HenryXLII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
279
Location
Ann Arbor MI
NNID
HenryXLII
3DS FC
3153-3904-2933
My experience is a mix of offline and online (participating weekly). I'm a colorado player. There are two other players that I know of in our state that use Robin exclusively besides myself. Catharc and someone else who I don't know (just someone people telling me they know). Not a lot of matchup knowledge from my end when I first started, but I've been continuing to break top 3.. Most players I meet in bracket (especially the ones I've deemed as "hard") know the matchup already.

Take with a grain of salt and feel free to ask me why on any of these, this is just the top of my head. I used to love doing Brawl Matchups in the back room back when I was competitive in that game.

Here's my matchup observations:

Wario: Hard Loss
Donkey Kong: Win
Luigi: Win
Ice Climbers: Slight Win
Zelda: Slight Win
Fox: Even
Kirby: Win
Jigglypuff: Hard Win
Bowser: Win
Pichu: Slight Win
Falco: Even
Young Link: Even
Mewtwo: Slight Win
Roy: Even
GW: Win
Metaknight: Slight Win
Snake: Even
Sonic: Slight Win
Dedede: Win
Rob: Slight Loss
Toon Link: Even
Wolf: Slight Loss, Even maybe.
Villager: Slight Loss
Megaman: Slight Loss
Wii Fit Trainer: Slight Loss
Little Mac: Win
Greninja: Slight Win
Mii Brawler / Sword / Gunner: Win / Slight Win / Slight Loss
Rosalina Luma
Mario/Dr.Mario: Even/Slight Win
Palutena: Even
Pacman: Slight Loss
Ryu/Ken: Win
Cloud: Slight Loss
Corrin: Slight Win
Inkling: Slight Win
Belmonts: Even
Pirahna Plant: Win
Link: Win
Ganon: Hard Win
Pikachu: Slight Win Maybe Even
Incineroar: Win
Pokemon Trainer: Even / Win / Win (Sq/Ivy/Char)
Pit/DarkPit: Even
Isabelle: Slight Win
King K. Rool: Slight Win
Ridley: Hard Win
Lucas: Slight Loss
Ness: Slight Loss
ZSS: Slight Loss
Captain Falcon: Slight Win
Yoshi: Slight Win
Peach/Daisy: Slight Win
Marth / Lucina: Slight Win
Ike: Slight Win
Chrom: Slight Win
Joker: Loss


For the record I'm a Robin main, Villager secondary. Plan on maining Banjo when he comes out :) (matchups below I have no idea about. Dont face them.)

Bayonetta: Even???
Diddy Kong: ???????????Eeehhhh Loss?
Olimar: ???????EHHhhhhh slight win?
Lucario: Even??
Duck Hunt: Maybe even, maybe ours. I play duck hunt but never find anyone else who does.
Hero: Yes. (seriously I'd say even but it could be much worse or better, I don't ever meet consistent hero mains (lul))
I think this list is a little too generous to Robin, if the character had this many good match ups, they would get a ton more results. The character definitely has some really REALLY bad match ups that require a total shift of play style.

In that sense I find that identifying Robin’s worst MU’s is critical to pushing the character, as the positive match ups are fairly linear.
 
Top Bottom