Tilts and how to use them?

[Geese]

So i picked up Greninja about a month ago and he has been the most fun character I have played in Smash 4, he is super different and gives a new breath to the game for me. With that comes some learning. I tried learning stuff by watching istudying at beast 6 and hear some stuff about using up and down tilts to combo into smash attacks. I have tried to get these to work but im having some difficulty, also I cant find a good time to use up or down tilt safely in a game. Any help os greatly appreciated.

 

[young grasshopper]

So i picked up Greninja about a month ago and he has been the most fun character I have played in Smash 4, he is super different and gives a new breath to the game for me. With that comes some learning. I tried learning stuff by watching istudying at beast 6 and hear some stuff about using up and down tilts to combo into smash attacks. I have tried to get these to work but im having some difficulty, also I cant find a good time to use up or down tilt safely in a game. Any help os greatly appreciated.

honestly, I hardly ever use up tilt. I know you can get a lot off of it, but the spacing is a bit weird. I suppose you could use it as a mixup where you empty hop up tilt in a situation where your opponent is expecting short hop Nair. Jab>jab> up tilt can also connect in some scenarios. Down tilt is easily one of my favorite tilts. It's a relatively safe move on shield after jabs 1 & 2 (it can be punished, but the timing is so quick that you can pick an option about as quickly as they can, leading to a little rock-paper-scissors mixup game), and it pops them up perfectly for so many combos! My main advice with down tilt is to simply sneak it in during moments where it works, rather than specifically going for it. I hope this helped a bit

 

[Partial_Credit]

In my experience:

Uptilt: good anti-air. You can use this to catch jump-ins. Knocks opponents straight up. At low percent, it can combo into itself and usmash. I most frequently land this move after:

-dthrow (connects without a perfect pivot at around 15% and with a perfect pivot up to about 30%)
-uair spike (knocks the opponent upwards for another uair spike --> utilt if they don't airdodge)
-perfect pivot in neutral (I don't use this too much, because if I'm in range to do something like this, they're probably already in shield or attacking me. Can be used to punish whiffed attacks though. Still need to experiment on this though)
-Utilt is NOT a good option to use out of shield or as a roll punish. It's too slow and doesn't have good horizontal range.

In general, this move is pretty situational and only gets used a couple times a game. It IS useful in that at kill percent, it can set up a 50/50 uair kill.

Downtilt: Great combo move with lots of followups. Don't be afraid to throw it out in neutral as it's pretty hard to punish as long as your opponent's not right on top of you. Some people use it to stuff run-ins, but I prefer to use it for pokes and punishes. Great array of followups.

 

[Geese]

In my experience:

Uptilt: good anti-air. You can use this to catch jump-ins. Knocks opponents straight up. At low percent, it can combo into itself and usmash. I most frequently land this move after:

-dthrow (connects without a perfect pivot at around 15% and with a perfect pivot up to about 30%)
-uair spike (knocks the opponent upwards for another uair spike --> utilt if they don't airdodge)
-perfect pivot in neutral (I don't use this too much, because if I'm in range to do something like this, they're probably already in shield or attacking me. Can be used to punish whiffed attacks though. Still need to experiment on this though)
-Utilt is NOT a good option to use out of shield or as a roll punish. It's too slow and doesn't have good horizontal range.

In general, this move is pretty situational and only gets used a couple times a game. It IS useful in that at kill percent, it can set up a 50/50 uair kill.

I have seen the thing about being able to uair spike into utilt into another uair, but usually when I try and go for it my opponent usually DIs out of it pretty quickly. I also found out the hard way how it is pretty bad to use in neutral. So is it better to just ignore it for the majority of a game and only use it around once or twice a stock?

honestly, I hardly ever use up tilt. I know you can get a lot off of it, but the spacing is a bit weird. I suppose you could use it as a mixup where you empty hop up tilt in a situation where your opponent is expecting short hop Nair. Jab>jab> up tilt can also connect in some scenarios. Down tilt is easily one of my favorite tilts. It's a relatively safe move on shield after jabs 1 & 2 (it can be punished, but the timing is so quick that you can pick an option about as quickly as they can, leading to a little rock-paper-scissors mixup game), and it pops them up perfectly for so many combos! My main advice with down tilt is to simply sneak it in during moments where it works, rather than specifically going for it. I hope this helped a bit

Yeah I have been using dtilt as an out of shield option and it is really helpful for getting a stock around 80% on most characters with it into usmash, but other than that I didn't know what else I could do with it. Thanks!

 

[Partial_Credit]

I have seen the thing about being able to uair spike into utilt into another uair, but usually when I try and go for it my opponent usually DIs out of it pretty quickly. I also found out the hard way how it is pretty bad to use in neutral. So is it better to just ignore it for the majority of a game and only use it around once or twice a stock?

Yeah, pretty much. I pretty much use it exclusively for catching landings and following up uair spike. If you can perfect pivot well, perfect pivoting into them with utilt could be good for blowing up those guys that just empty hop repeatedly, but I haven't tested it extensively. It's true that utilt --> uair spike is easy to escape, so I'll usually go for a back or neutral air out of it instead.

 

[Guimartgon]

I had issues using Utilt like a few months ago, then I learned that it was a disjoint(the whole thing. Tongue = No hurtbox) and since then it's been a lot easier to use, it's also godly as it kill confirms into Uair at high %s and it's one of your best non footstool combo starters. You can Nair, Perfect Pivot Utilt(tiny window) into Uair Spike, into Uair, into Uair spike until like 80% where you can Uair spike, Dtilt Usmash. This requires good reaction or reads for DI. Getting an Utilt can be huge against light characters on non-high ceiling stages. I've killed fox at like 80 with rage from Utilt to Uair from the ground.

Dtilt is a good grounded poke. Safe when properly spaced, at low %s you can grab after it, at mid percents you can Dtilt into Jab and sometimes Dtilt Perfect Pivot Utilt(so you can literally combo people from like 40 to 80 from 1 dtilt and good reaction and tech). From around 60% you can Dtilt Usmash(you need to Jump Cancel USmash I do believe, gives you a little more slide). then at around 120% you can get Dtilt to Fair which sometimes True combos people but for the most part is a 50-50, you can also do Dtilt into Uair spike and then just Dsmash/Fsmash them at around the same %.
It's also pretty good in the neutral IMO, not great like Jab 1, Fair and water shuriken which imo are greninja's best neutral tools but Dtilt is quick, converts nicely and people sometimes don't expect it. If you see your opponent approaching you through the air, sometimes you can, instead of Utilt, Perfect Pivot away Dtilt to cover the ground they'll land on.

Also anyone who's trying to main Greninja should watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z78INd80SNo
it has some really fancy stuff (mostly footstool combos) but it also have pretty much all the B&B combos. The only one that I feel like could use an update is SHFF Nair - Dash Attack - Fair, it got even better with the new patch, so it's definitely still great but I feel like SHFF Nair --> Dtilt --> Grab (I think you can squeeze 1 pummel but I'm not sure))--> Uthrow --> Uair might be better: A) it deals a little less damage B) you can try to Uair spike at low %s and get huge conversions that would mean more % dealt. C) it leaves the opponent right above you --> you can catch their landing.

 

[young grasshopper]

I have seen the thing about being able to uair spike into utilt into another uair, but usually when I try and go for it my opponent usually DIs out of it pretty quickly. I also found out the hard way how it is pretty bad to use in neutral. So is it better to just ignore it for the majority of a game and only use it around once or twice a stock?




Yeah I have been using dtilt as an out of shield option and it is really helpful for getting a stock around 80% on most characters with it into usmash, but other than that I didn't know what else I could do with it. Thanks!

My pleasure! On the topic of utilt > uair, it might be a good idea to dash for a brief moment in the direction that they DI before you jump, then do a turnaround jump to cancel your dash momentum (like a RAR, but you don't hold the direction you were dashing). It's still tricky, but done right, it can make it much harder to DI out of. For dtilt, I highly recommend using it as a pressure tool. One example is RAR Nair landing behind their shield > dtilt > adapt. When I do this on people, I notice that they often try to pick an option after the dtilt, but if you space it properly, you can counter almost any option they pick. They roll away? Dashgrab. They roll in? Dsmash or reverse Fsmash. They spotdodge? pivot grab. They jump? dashing Usmash. They attack? punish accordingly.

 

[Guimartgon]

My pleasure! On the topic of utilt > uair, it might be a good idea to dash for a brief moment in the direction that they DI before you jump, then do a turnaround jump to cancel your dash momentum (like a RAR, but you don't hold the direction you were dashing). It's still tricky, but done right, it can make it much harder to DI out of. For dtilt, I highly recommend using it as a pressure tool. One example is RAR Nair landing behind their shield > dtilt > adapt. When I do this on people, I notice that they often try to pick an option after the dtilt, but if you space it properly, you can counter almost any option they pick. They roll away? Dashgrab. They roll in? Dsmash or reverse Fsmash. They spotdodge? pivot grab. They jump? dashing Usmash. They attack? punish accordingly.

This is actually really good! I never thought of dtilting out of Rar Nair! I'm going to a tourney today and I'm certainly checking this out!

 

[young grasshopper]

This is actually really good! I never thought of dtilting out of Rar Nair! I'm going to a tourney today and I'm certainly checking this out!

that's one of my staple pressure tactics. I thought it was standard Greninja stuff!

 

[Guimartgon]

that's one of my staple pressure tactics. I thought it was standard Greninja stuff!

I mean it kind of is. I've always Nair Dtilted on people's shield but RAR nair sounds a lot safer and you don't have to space nair to hit their shield but not them.