Tier List Speculation

[1FD]

I think everybody is nutty for not putting my furry first

 

[redbeanjelly]

Yeah basically that

Roy isn't butchered because he sucks, he's still pretty good. Roy is butchered because a lot of his tools don't feel refined, there's a bunch of really small **** on the character that isn't polished and it's really discouraging to play a character you have issues with vs. the cancer that is 3.6 characters

Care to elaborate on which characters you're referring to? And what elements of Roy are relatively unrefined by comparison?

 

[Deleted member]

Care to elaborate on which characters you're referring to? And what elements of Roy are relatively unrefined by comparison?

typical cancer characters like sonic, squirtle, snake, ddd, etc

his sword trail GFX on most of his moves look really off, side b doesn't flow well, up b grabbox is stupid small, down smash sweetspot doesn't kill well but the sourspot destroys you, etc. Just a bunch of small **** that adds up and frustrates me, both gameplay and aesthetically.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

I know this might be off-topic, but what is the 3.6 Fox capable of? If optimized perfectly, would he be the best character in the game? Also, what melee tech can't you do in this game? Like thunder's combo or like triple waveshine d-smash?

 

[Ya Boy GP]

I know this might be off-topic, but what is the 3.6 Fox capable of? If optimized perfectly, would he be the best character in the game? Also, what melee tech can't you do in this game? Like thunder's combo or like triple waveshine d-smash?

In my opinion, Fox is top 3 or so in the game. This might change in like 2 or 3 years but as of now I think he's top 3. Fox can do anything he could do in Melee, while also having the ability to use RAR and footstools.

 

[Bazkip]

up b grabbox is stupid smal

???
Am I missing something here? This doesn't seem small at all...

 

[Deleted member]

The horizontal distance of the grabbox is good, the vertical distance of the grabbox is horrible and misleading. If you actually play as Roy for more than an hour, you'd instantly notice that it's wrong.

https://youtu.be/vb5FwOm8ni0?t=45 Not only is the timestamped one hilarious, but there are also a few other points in the video that are pathetic

(Ex. 1:10, 1:22, 2:27)

This happens in tournament all the time to both @Sethlon and I, it's probably the most discouraging thing about Roy.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

In my opinion, Fox is top 3 or so in the game. This might change in like 2 or 3 years but as of now I think he's top 3. Fox can do anything he could do in Melee, while also having the ability to use RAR and footstools.

So I can do crazy 20XX stuff?

 

[Ya Boy GP]

So I can do crazy 20XX stuff?

lmao yes you can

 

[I speak Spanish too]

You said that Fox is top 3 and that might change in like 2 or 3 years, but how would it change? Do you think he will drop or eventually become uncontested for number 1? B/c if **** like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDHs6UXgR8&nohtml5=False is doable I wouldn't seem him getting any worse

 

[Avro-Arrow]

He's saying it's possible that a new age of DDD comes out and destroys the world as we know it
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But seriously. Yeah he's always gonna be good, don't sweat it. He's being open to the idea that some nutty tech or development of characters (perhaps mk, diddy, wolf, zss, m2, maybe others) could threaten his position in the long run.

 

[G13_Flux]

typical cancer characters like sonic, squirtle, snake, ddd, etc

his sword trail GFX on most of his moves look really off, side b doesn't flow well, up b grabbox is stupid small, down smash sweetspot doesn't kill well but the sourspot destroys you, etc. Just a bunch of small **** that adds up and frustrates me, both gameplay and aesthetically.

the vertical grab box issue frequently comes up in my play too. that was one of the first things that bothered me when 3.6 came out. whats the issue with side b though? do you mean the way the hitbox angles/KB values link into subsequent hits, or the timing of the hits? or the safety of the hits? i thought the 2 frame window they added made it fairly comfortable to link with.

 

[Farquaad]

People should ***** about ROB more, it does the heart good

 

[1FD]

whats the issue with side b though?

when I first learned roy was about to be in PM like with the trailers and stuff, I got together with a bunch of locals and we were SO HYPE! We ended up sitting around talking about all the sweet stuff that his side B might be able to do because we thought it would've been an awesome thing to serparate him from Marth. Then it turned out to be just kind of ok and not really a big thing
That made me sad

 

[G13_Flux]

when I first learned roy was about to be in PM like with the trailers and stuff, I got together with a bunch of locals and we were SO HYPE! We ended up sitting around talking about all the sweet stuff that his side B might be able to do because we thought it would've been an awesome thing to serparate him from Marth. Then it turned out to be just kind of ok and not really a big thing
That made me sad

well its super different at face value, but its definitely better than marths. it links better, does more damage, fourth hits kill better and reach further, and it obviously has the fourth back hit. the difference isnt monumental, but its still there a bit. I can see how some could still want more of a change though i suppose to further differentiate.

 

[Zoa]

People should ***** about ROB more, it does the heart good

I thought this was Fox or Squirtle?

 

[Denjinpachi]

So what character exactly is considered #1 so far?

 

[Life]

So what character exactly is considered #1 so far?

This gets asked all the time. Most common response is Fox, but there isn't really a consensus.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

So what character exactly is considered #1 so far?

general favorite: fox
objective results: diddy
super theory bros: wolf

 

[Strong Badam]

Fox/Diddy/MK are all basically as good as each other and Wolf could be as good as them as well as time progresses IMO

 

[Kapapanerp]

So basically there's like 5 chars that are potentially #1 as of right now lol. Fox Diddy MK Wolf and Mewtwo in my humble opinion.

 

[trash?]

MK is moreso theoryman supreme, since he explicitly has everything you'd want but nobody plays him on the high-end so there's no results

lunchables can u just like temporarily not hate this game for long enough to solo-main MK and win everything forever

 

[DrinkingFood]

no don't turn this game into brawl

everybody should just play wolf and then the melee players will HAVE to stop bitching because we can just say our top tier is Falcon+Fox+Falco in 1

 

[Phaiyte]

Fox, Falco, Wolf, GW, MK. Top 5, no realistic ranking between them. Just those as top 5.

 

[Zach777]

^But GnW really isn't top spot material because of him having serious issues with Marth and maybe Roy. Don't know about any others that are like that.

Fox has mus that might be bad but only in the sense of a slight uphill battle. DDD is thought to have a positive (+1) mu vs Fox by some players while others think it is even.


To be #1, a character must have mostly winning mus and only a few slightly disadvantaged ones like Fox does.


Mr GnW is a great character and a solid top 10 or top 5 contender.

 

[ilysm]

From what I've seen Fox also just kind of trashes Mr. Game and Watch. A lot of it is just run away laser into get killed by uair at 70%, and if the Fox is on point it can be tricky for Game and Watch to do anything. Game and Watch does okay if he gets an opening, but getting an opening is difficult to say the least. By no means an expert in the MU, but I can't see Game and Watch having a good time with it.

 

[Life]

GnW honestly loses to a lot of characters. The more I think about GnW, the worse I think he is. Loses to dash dancing and stuff.

Falco's also generally too fragile to be a contender for a top spot IMO. Even if his matchup "numbers" (psst, matchup numbers are dumb, they are based on data that doesn't exist) look good, expecting to actually go the whole tournament without running into that one matchup you don't know well enough to not get blown up in is a bit much.

 

[Oracle]

People should ***** about ROB more, it does the heart good

Amen

 

[Farquaad]

Amen

Lmao. Really wanted to work him in as a secondary but dude really doesn't cover Squirtle's annoying matchups, it'd just be for fun. Love his design though

 

[Strong Badam]

GnW honestly loses to a lot of characters. The more I think about GnW, the worse I think he is. Loses to dash dancing and stuff.

Falco's also generally too fragile to be a contender for a top spot IMO. Even if his matchup "numbers" (psst, matchup numbers are dumb, they are based on data that doesn't exist) look good, expecting to actually go the whole tournament without running into that one matchup you don't know well enough to not get blown up in is a bit much.

Yeah I agree, I can't see Falco much higher than like 9th and he may be lower as well. His strengths are clear but he needs to be so precise and careful, other characters don't need to and have similar strengths.

 

[Tomaster]

Wolf is just as good as fox imo... If not better. It's just that one requires a brain and the other doesnt.

The reign of wolf will come, be ready.

 

[Kipcom]

It's just that one requires a brain and the other doesnt.

Do people actually think like this

 

[trash?]

I mean, from the standpoint of technical difficulty PM fox is objectively an easier-to-play melee fox, whereas wolf has pretty much no safety nets and can accidentally SD if you mistime one of his major kill moves

I still dunno if you can consistently do 1-frame stuff enough for him to be flawless, but then I don't know what the world's gonna be like in 2020 because I cannot peer into the future, so who knows

 

[DMG]

If people nerd up the top 5 chars in this game, we should probably just move on to another game tbh. I vote Water Frisbee

 

[Tomaster]

Do people actually think like this

Well it's an exaggeration of course, but yes, i think wolf requires harder decision making. His tools aren't as dominant alone as fox's, they're dominant when used together well. I know that's vague and that it's true for all characters to an extent, maybe ill write more about it later..

 

[1FD]

I'm bad but Wolf is good so it makes us together be ok

 

[CORY]

i'm bad and ganon's midtier at best, so together i drown in pools.

 

[KakuCP9]

Real talk tho.
Are there any recent high level wolf matches out there or wolf players that don't travel? Wolf defiantly sounds very strong, but without seeing him in action, it's a bit hard to take in his top tier status. At least with MK, I can see his top-tier strengths when Lunchables tech chases people to death at I&B as well as Gurukid beating Pro.

 

[Life]

Your best bet for Wolf is probably Switch from NYC. Has a win over Jaden among others, so he's probably not bad?

Someone in the Wolf Discord put together a YT playlist of Wolf matches. Gonna go bug those people in a second here...

 

[Deleted member]

I've revised my tier list

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