Through the fire and flames he carries on! Charizard in Smash Switch

PF9

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#1

The Fire/Flying type dragon is a safe bet to return in Smash Switch. And I thought no picture better exemplifies the character than this one. Charizard is my second-favorite of Ash's Pokemon in the anime after Pikachu, although I liked the dragon better as a rebel. Since SSB4 I think it has been this very Charizard that has been in Smash, following Pokemon Trainer's departure (much like we've been playing as Ash's Pikachu since 1999).

Charizard is still one of the most popular of the original 151, and one of the most popular overall. An addition I'd like is a palette swap which colors him like Toothless from HTTYD.

Charizard fans, let your voices be heard!

Pokémon Trainer Discord
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#2
While I generally like all of Charizard's palette options in SSB4, I'd prefer it if they replaced its GSC Shiny palette with the newer version from the more recent gen titles:

 

ryuu seika

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#3
Has Charizard lost Rock Smash or Flare Blitz? Which way are they choosing to cripple him?
Both were essential to his solo playstyle so I'm really hoping that they find a way to keep him both fun and playable without whichever is missing.
 

JJBro1

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#4
Has Charizard lost Rock Smash or Flare Blitz? Which way are they choosing to cripple him?
Both were essential to his solo playstyle so I'm really hoping that they find a way to keep him both fun and playable without whichever is missing.
RIP Rock smash. I was watching videos and he still has his flair blitz.
 

Nerd Saga Nate

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#7
Don't count your eggs before they've hatched. We still don't know if the Trainer retains the same Final Smash or if all three get a seperate one. Furthermore, maybe - just maybe - switching is triggered with a different button input. If they can make Ryu use SFII inputs and have the Inklings regain Ink from Shield-B (an essentially fifth special move) they can find a way to give all three 'mon four specials.
 
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#8
However Charizard turns out, it's not going to stop me from maining him. Rock Smash may be a big loss, but it's something I'll adapt my strategy around. No Stamina was all I needed!

I'll gladly learn Squirtle and Ivysaur as secondaries, but you'll most likely see me Zard 100% of the time.

I'm not too worried. But then again, I'm a casual player.
 

PlayerOneTyler

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#9
I wasn't a Charizard player in Smash 4, but I played Pokemon Trainer today at E3. Can confirm that Flare Blitz stays and Rock Smash is gone. Also I'm not sure if this is how it was in Smash 4 or not, but Charizard doesn't become immobile (or whatever term you guys use) after using Flare Blitz, meaning he can use it for horizontal recovery + Up B to get the vertical recover.
 

DtJ Glyphmoney

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#10
So the suicide rush stays but not the landing armour? Guess he's gonna be combo fodder...
Switch off! Squirtle much faster and smaller, much more likely to get to the ground safely all in what equates for a free air dodge after you use your first. This is a MASSIVE buff!
 

JJBro1

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#12
Just got done playing the demo and cycling through pokemon is not as simple as just holding down and pressing B. You'll stay crouched until you move or jump and then hit B. By the time I cycled back to charizard my invincibility frames were over. I would definitely take rock smash over flair blitz any day of the week. Rock smash is relatively quick and can save you from plenty situations. Flair blitz is easy to read and is very punishable not to mention it's self damaging.
 
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ggamer77

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#14
Im looking at one of the Smash Bros Ultimate E3 videos. The one with Pokemon Trainer being explained and I see this:
https://youtu.be/nIZb2C6EMBA?t=4m7s
What is this extra animation after Charizard's jab? Is Charizard just stuck there until it the animation finishes leaving no time to follow up the jab?
It seems very odd to me.

EDIT: No this extra animation doesnt lock you like I though but it still looks weird to me.
 
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#16
I wasn't a Charizard player in Smash 4, but I played Pokemon Trainer today at E3. Can confirm that Flare Blitz stays and Rock Smash is gone. Also I'm not sure if this is how it was in Smash 4 or not, but Charizard doesn't become immobile (or whatever term you guys use) after using Flare Blitz, meaning he can use it for horizontal recovery + Up B to get the vertical recover.
Charizard didn't enter a "helpless" state after using Flare Blitz but the end lag was so taxing that it might as well have been helpless state. If you can go straight into a Fly then Flare Blitz might have some actual use as a recovery.

Really not liking how zard doesn't retain his individuality anymore
You and me both... It's been an adjustment but I'm slowly starting to get used to Pokemon Trainer being back. No Stamina is such a blessing. Funny how "Everyone is back!" but not Solo Zard, my main from Smash 4.

I still plan to mostly stick with Charizard in battles until the nearly instant Pokemon Switch (to Squirtle) becomes useful.

The sad part, for me, is seeing Pokemon Trainer's face on the CSS and not Charizard (or Squirtle or Ivysaur).
 

Jamisinon

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#20
As far as pokemon trainer goes I think the biggest hurdle thus far is that based on the demo they brought back automatic rotation to the next pokemon upon losing a stock. I was never a fan of this in Brawl and I don't like it for sma5h either. You could likely use angel platform invincibility to get one pokemon rotation off but you'd have to buy yourself time to transform again to get back to the pokemon you were playing upon death. This means you will either need to run away giving up stage position or giving your opponent the chance to charge things like charge shot, needles, ink, limit etc. Since the transformations appear cyclical this seems like it will be a character weakness for sure.
So for the people who want to essentially solo main any of the 3 pokemon it's going to take some learning of how to get that 2nd transformation off safely. It also likely means learning how to play all 3 pokemon will be essential to a degree even if you use mostly just one.
This could change but for the time being I'm not a fan of the auto rotation. I assume there will be a simple way of choosing which pokemon to start the match off with as in Brawl and not have it be random/squirtle at least.
 

Spinosaurus

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#22
I have a quick question which Pokemon trainer color has the red Charizard color
Default Leaf.

Order of Charizard's colours in the E3 build are the same as Smash 4's. Default (Default Red) > Red (Default Leaf) > Green (Gold Red) > Pink (May Leaf) > Yellow (Lucas Red) > White (Hilda Leaf) > Blue (Calem Red) > Purple (Moon Leaf)
 
D

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#24
Default Leaf.

Order of Charizard's colours in the E3 build are the same as Smash 4's. Default (Default Red) > Red (Default Leaf) > Green (Gold Red) > Pink (May Leaf) > Yellow (Lucas Red) > White (Hilda Leaf) > Blue (Calem Red) > Purple (Moon Leaf)
The fact that the Pokemon alt color order was just kind of pasted on to the trainer alt order bothers me quite a bit considering how mismatched Colors 2/3/4/5 are. Hopefully it's swapped around before release.
 
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Psychoace

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#25
But can we tech flare blitz? Since footstools can be.

Also flare blitz will be a good tool for recovery, as much as i love rock smash for landing having more recovery options is better imo.
 
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#28
Default Leaf.

Order of Charizard's colours in the E3 build are the same as Smash 4's. Default (Default Red) > Red (Default Leaf) > Green (Gold Red) > Pink (May Leaf) > Yellow (Lucas Red) > White (Hilda Leaf) > Blue (Calem Red) > Purple (Moon Leaf)
Awww man, I was hoping the Pokémon and the Trainer palletes were separate.... I want to use standard Leaf with standard Charizard :c
 

Mewtwo

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#29
Like you all, I am sad to see Charizard lose Rock Smash and whatnot. I was actually a verrry reluctant Charizard player...I was never a fan of the Pokemon and preferred Ivysaur or Squirtle even but then one day I picked him up in Smash for Wii U and not only did I discover that I was having tons of fun, but I won a LOT. He became basically my main out of no where.

The way I look at it, Charizard was awesome enough to hold the fort for Squirtle and Ivysaur during that era. "What's that? 3DS limitations? Don't worry guys, I can handle things on my own until you two return in Smash Ultimate." So from that perspective the Pokemon Trainer never really went away, it was just carried by Charizard alone until hardware limitations weren't a thing anymore. So that's kinda cool. It was really neat that he was able to shine on his own that way.
 
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#32
I am also dissapointed that Zard isn't solo. He's one of my favorite characters of all time, and I could care less about playing as Squirtle and Ivysaur. Now that my most wanted character, King K. Rool, is playable, I will probably focus on him as my new main in Ultimate. With that said, I practiced Zard so much in Smash 4 that it may be worth keeping the trainer as a secondary. Time will tell what happens, but I'm so frustrated that the trainer came back. I just want to play as Charizard, it's like if Pichu came back but he gets tied with Lucario and Greninja.
 

1FC0

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#33
I hated it when Zard went solo. I loved switching between the 3 Pokemon during battle and playing with Ivysaur and Squirtle as well. Now that Pokemon Trainer has finally come back I will probably play Zard again.

t's like if Pichu came back but he gets tied with Lucario and Greninja.
Actually it is not since the three you mentioned do not complement each other as well as Pokemon Trainers Pokemon do. This is more like as if Zard came back but he gets tied with Squirtle and Ivysaur.
 
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#34
Actually it is not since the three you mentioned do not complement each other as well as Pokemon Trainers Pokemon do. This is more like as if Zard came back but he gets tied with Squirtle and Ivysaur.
To each their own. I never liked the trainer and was so excited to use solo Zard after loving him in Project M, and I mained him since day one in Smash 4. Every time I use Squirtle and Ivysaur, I struggle much more with making them work. I love how aggressive and tanky Zard is, I've never been good with fast characters like Squirtle or balanced characters like Ivysaur. The personal attachment to Zard also works out for me imo, since I only ever use Charmander in the Kanto games, even in Yellow alongside Pikachu. I never used Squirtle or Bulbasaur in a Pokémon playthrough before.

Also, the Pichu comparison may have been a bit iffy. In my opinion, it would be werid for a character to lose an important move in order to be tied to two other unrelated characters. But that is just my opinion, and you clearly feel very differently about it.

I'm just curious though to hear your perspective. Why do you love playing as all three at once rather than only one or even two of them? Do you like all of them as characters, do all of their movesets fit your playstyle, how so do they compliment each other and why is it better than being solo like in Project M, do you prefer the Pokémon trainer as a whole over many other characters in Smash? I'm really curious why you feel so strongly about all three being tied together, because it's a very hard contrast to my solo Zard interest and I find that comparison intriguing.
 

Mewtwo

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#35
I didn't play much of Brawl and when I did play the Pokemon Trainer I did not prefer Charizard. I fell in love with Ivysaur in Project M and always wanted it to return. Considering it seemed pretty hopeless, however, you can imagine how ecstatic I was at the reveal of Pokemon Trainer's return, even if they're not separate. When a miracle comes true, it's senseless to complain about particulars.

Anyway, in the interim of Smash 4 I eventually tried playing as Charizard and surprised myself when he became one of my mains. I freaking love the Pokemon now. So while they're all tied together, it is certainly great that the stamina mechanic is gone, and that switching is pretty quick, so if you really want to play as only one of them, it's much more viable than it was in Brawl. Just do a quick swap when you spawn and you're good.
 

1FC0

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#36
I'm just curious though to hear your perspective. Why do you love playing as all three at once rather than only one or even two of them? Do you like all of them as characters, do all of their movesets fit your playstyle, how so do they compliment each other and why is it better than being solo like in Project M, do you prefer the Pokémon trainer as a whole over many other characters in Smash? I'm really curious why you feel so strongly about all three being tied together, because it's a very hard contrast to my solo Zard interest and I find that comparison intriguing.
I enjoy drastically changing my character mid battle in order to get the right properties for the current situation.

E.g. with shulk I enjoy knocking off the opponent with Smash and then switching to Jump to gimp and then to Speed to damage rack. Or to switch between Defence when the opponent is on stage and Jump when the opponent is off stage (trying to keep him there while Defence recharges) in order to stall.

Now that Pokemon Switch is faster and can be done mid air I will be able to switch just to recover, get a KO move, stall with weight, escape combo's at low %, etc, or maybe even in order to more easily evade rare attacks like KO Punches and highly charged Wafts.

Charizard alone is simple and does not offer anything special like Pokemon Trainers adaptability to me. The three Pokemon complement each other very well because all weaknesses that the Pokemon have is a strength of another of the Pokemon and vice versa. Same goes for Shulk's Monado Arts which I like for the same reason as Pokemon Switch.
 
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#37
I enjoy drastically changing my character mid battle in order to get the right properties for the current situation.

E.g. with shulk I enjoy knocking off the opponent with Smash and then switching to Jump to gimp and then to Speed to damage rack. Or to switch between Defence when the opponent is on stage and Jump when the opponent is off stage (trying to keep him there while Defence recharges) in order to stall.

Now that Pokemon Switch is faster and can be done mid air I will be able to switch just to recover, get a KO move, stall with weight, escape combo's at low %, etc, or maybe even in order to more easily evade rare attacks like KO Punches and highly charged Wafts.

Charizard alone is simple and does not offer anything special like Pokemon Trainers adaptability to me. The three Pokemon complement each other very well because all weaknesses that the Pokemon have is a strength of another of the Pokemon and vice versa. Same goes for Shulk's Monado Arts which I like for the same reason as Pokemon Switch.
I see, thanks for replying. Shulk is another character I have a hard time using, it's difficult for me to multi-task his monado arts. I liked the simplicity of using only Charizard, playing as Pokémon Trainer at E3 felt tricky as I had to be good with all three characters instead of just one. I guess we just have to agree to disagree, but I'm happy that you are excited to make the most of all three Pokémon.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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#38
I prefer the one character road myself. Charizard alone is what I did in smash 4, but if this what he needs to be so be it. I think it will help the character out a lot for covering bad match-ups and working as a team.

Just it will take a lot of work which yeah it’s what it is.
 

Noventiaa

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#39
I think the trainer is designed this time so that you can solo main one character pretty much fine, though. Losing your down-b kinda sucks but apart from that it seems to be fine.
 
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