Thoughts on Wobbling?

[LonerCrisis]

Do you consider it a good, fair tactic or do you think it is a cheap tactic?

 

[EPsilon933]

It's more respectful to get wobbled than not to. It means your opponent is trying their hardest to win

 

[Suzukipot]

To me, wobbling is fair. Considering how difficult it is to pull off and the fact that your opponent is more than likely going to split them up, then yeah I'd call wobbling fair game.

 

[gmBottles]

The only people who dislike wobbling or think it should be banned are either salty as **** or don't like it because EEEH NO HYYPE

I think wobbling can be hype as hell, depending on the scenario.

 

[Deleted member]

The only people who dislike wobbling or think it should be banned are either salty as **** or don't like it because EEEH NO HYYPE

I think wobbling can be hype as hell, depending on the scenario.

As an ICs main myself, these are my exact thoughts. Wobbling takes a hell of a lot of management to pull off and they should be commended for doing such an advanced, yet deadly technique in the first place.

ALSO YEE 2,000TH POST

 

[-ACE-]

Don't get grabbed.

 

[LonerCrisis]

The only people who dislike wobbling or think it should be banned are either salty as **** or don't like it because EEEH NO HYYPE

I think wobbling can be hype as hell, depending on the scenario.

To me it depends on the player for wobbling to be interesting. Like Wobbles when he does desync combos and wobbles I get super hype.

 

[-ACE-]

To me it depends on the player for wobbling to be interesting. Like Wobbles when he does desync combos and wobbles I get super hype.

I'd be hype for nintendude to win a national. His skill def goes far past wobbling.

@Feelicks drunksloth da best tho lol

 

[Protanly]

I personally don't have a respect for people that feel the need to consistently use it to the point of then acting as if they can only wobble with IC's. (Which ultimately ends in either endless punishes, or me falling for it every time and having cost my game for not reacting properly to the tactic.)

That being said, I'm not against people using it when they know how to throw other tactics into the mix and can hold their own without it (With wobbling simply being a bonus for their character).

The only time I will outright be against its use is when it is used to stall.

 

[LonerCrisis]

I'd be hype for nintendude to win a national. His skill def goes far past wobbling.

@Feelicks drunksloth da best tho lol

Ninten does more than just wobble and thats super hype imo

 

[LonerCrisis]

I personally don't have a respect for people that feel the need to consistently use it to the point of then acting as if they can only wobble with IC's. (Which ultimately ends in either endless punishes, or me falling for it every time and having cost my game for not reacting properly to the tactic.)

That being said, I'm not against people using it when they know how to throw other tactics into the mix and can hold their own without it (With wobbling simply being a bonus for their character).

The only time I will outright be against its use is when it used to stall.

Wanna reenact M2K vs Ninten? I see you are a peach main.

 

[Deleted member]

IMO wobbling suxx. The main reason for this is because IC's have loads of other cool grab things that are really flashy and effective at the same time, which is clearly evident when seeing wobbles play, he almost never uses wobbling. SO, instead of being able to do all sorts of cool grab-based combos like handoffs and messing around with desynchs, you have wobbling, which is the better option instead of the flashy things 9 times out of 10. It suxx because wobbling makes learning all the other grab combos almost useless, which is a real shame.

 

[Massive]

Wobbling is the dumbest thing in melee, it rewards a low risk behavior (grab) with a guaranteed stock if performed correctly, and has a very low skill requirement to preform reliably. I used to actively support banning it (as did most old-school players) until I reconsidered my viewpoint.

Here's why I changed my mind:

Due to some pretty substantial deficits in ICs aside from wobbling, you do not see many IC players performing on a high level. Wobbling is very clearly a silly, broken tactic, but it doesn't grant ICs any more than the bottom edge of the viable zone in the tier list.
ICs really do need wobbling to be relevant in the modern meta and I prefer as many characters to be relevant as possible.

So overall, I'm fine with it staying legal even if I think it's completely stupid.

 

[-ACE-]

The key is that the risk associated with going for a grab completely depends on the level of play.

 

[Twinkles]

It's fair, it's just ridiculously annoying, both the actual wobbling and the millions of ways in which a screw up leads into a wobble

 

[TurboLink]

I've never liked Wobbling. Glad I don't play Melee.

 

[Dolla Pills]

I don't mind being wobbled at all

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Wobbling is the dumbest thing in melee, it rewards a low risk behavior (grab) with a guaranteed stock if performed correctly, and has a very low skill requirement to preform reliably. I used to actively support banning it (as did most old-school players) until I reconsidered my viewpoint.

Here's why I changed my mind:

Due to some pretty substantial deficits in ICs aside from wobbling, you do not see many IC players performing on a high level. Wobbling is very clearly a silly, broken tacit, but it doesn't grant ICs any more than the bottom edge of the viable zone in the tier list.
ICs really do need wobbling to be relevant in the modern meta and I prefer as many characters to be relevant as possible.

So overall, I'm fine with it staying legal even if I think it's completely stupid.

ICs have stubby short arms. Getting a grab is hard hard work

 

[WinterShorts]

For as much as I absolutely dread getting wobbled, since when it happens I know I've lost the stock and I have to sit there and watch my character get pummeled for about 10 seconds, I would assume there are legitimate arguments people have for not complaining against wobbling (unless the Melee community would be the kind of people to excuse every single little bit of **** it has because it's "Melee"). For starters, it's a little bit hard to pull off, requiring a bit of desyncing and decently timed jabs and pummels. Also, I think people can get out of wobbling at very low percents (correct me if i'm wrong there). Any other reason for supporting wobbling would be minor. So overall, there's probably good reasons people excuse wobbling.

(Though me personally, I think it's utter s**t that people are okay with it IMO)

 

[LonerCrisis]

I've never liked Wobbling. Glad I don't play Melee.

What are you doing in the Melee forum?

 

[Dolla Pills]

If you play any of the top 8 or so characters and you spend a couple of hours studying video, theorizing, and playing a decent Ice Climbers player then you won't get wobbled for four stocks and you'll realize wobbling isn't as dumb as you thought.

Seriously, I have never heard a single good argument against wobbling and if you ask most top players (except maybe like m2k) they'll say the same thing. The arguments I typically hear are: it's annoying, it's dumb, it's broken, it's lame, it's gay, it's boring, it takes no skill, m2k didn't deserve to lose to Nintendude, it's a glitch, etc. None of those are even remotely good arguments, and the only one that needs to even be addressed is that "it takes no skill." Sure it's not mechanically challenging to press a at 200 bpm, but you try and find wobbling set ups against someone who has played the match up before, then maybe you'll realize you actually need to be playing at or above the level of the other player to beat them.

Oh yeah I forgot about people saying Wobbles desync combos are way cooler and IC's should do that instead. Look at his tournament placing at G3. IC's are at best an extremely inconsistent character without wobbling and the fact that he managed to win Forte 3 while only using it sparingly is somewhat of a small miracle (although I don't think one of either Sfat or Westballz was SDI'ing the down through down air chaingrab, so they weren't doing all they could to get out of the non guaranteed punishes).

 

[TurboLink]

What are you doing in the Melee forum?

I was bored.

 

[LonerCrisis]

I was bored.

>Doesn't play Melee
>Hey, lets play some PM

 

[TurboLink]

>Doesn't play Melee
>Hey, lets play some PM

What's the problem?

 

[gmBottles]

>Doesn't play Melee
>Hey, lets play some PM

The two games have enough differences for this to not be a bizarre thing to do.

No need for snarky meme arrows

 

[LonerCrisis]

The two games have enough differences for this to not be a bizarre thing to do.

No need for snarky meme arrows

Memes R lyfe XddDXDDXDXXDDDDDXDDDD

 

[GenNyan]

I think its hilarious/adorable when people try to apologize to me for wobbling or chain grabbing after we finish a game/set. Then I just think its kinda sad that people will hate them for their play style. Do what you gotta do man. ICs are barely in top 8 as is, they need every advantage they can get.

But yeah, its actually ridiculous how much people hate ICs players.

 

[Scurry059]

Wobbling is fair but if your doing it repeatedly, that's a problem. Anyway, try to avoid grabs as much as possible

 

[Kaibo]

I see it as a part of the game, just like wavedashing and any other tactics. It probably wasn't meant to be implemented but it was so what can you really do? It does suck to get wobbled though :/

 

[Protanly]

In addition to what I said earlier, no one complains as much about any other infinites, and IC's happen to receive the major backlash against infinites. I'm not going to hate people playing to win, and if that includes me being helpless in an infinite, then so be it. Just be ready for punishes if you are a one trick pony.

 

[Ed94]

Let me know when an IC's win a national. Then we can discuss if it should be allowed or not. As it stands the character needs as many options as they can muster against the top character in the game who have won these repeatedly for years now.

Its obviously not broken considering how the character has placed at tournaments.

 

[Lichi]

It's no fun to be wobbled, but it's a legit tool to use. The hunt for a grab can be very exciting tho, just as a jiggs fishing for a rest.

 

[B-Will]

Wobbling is fine. As people have said, I dont remember the last time ice climbers have won a national. If it was so broken or unfair, we would have the likes of wobbles or chu or nintendude or fly winning national after national. Like seriously, when was the last time ice climbers won a major?

 

[Brash Candihoot]

It is fun to hear people on here talk about about how hype and exciting it can be to watch pummeling for a half a minute. (might also be fans of watching Sheik TCs and Puff vs Puff matches)

I especially love how the commentary is awkward and silent during wobbling and how the crowd BOOs in mass when wobbling is happening in on a main stage (everytime)

But the best part about wobbling is how Nintendude and pretty much every other top ICs talk about how they don't wobble until they are desperate (pretty much saying it's an unbalanced mechanic).

That's like Fox mains talking about not using their shines until they are about to lose.

They even look guilty and apologetic during and after wobbling lol

So, in conclusion wobbling is very hype. It's probably the best thing about Melee.

But to answer the thread question....of course it's a good tactic to use. Why would you not use a 0-death grab? Silly question.

 

[-ACE-]

^^ someone got grabbed.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

I don't know why people don't think wobbling is hype. I guess at a low level of play, yeah, IC players generally get grabs pretty easily and that can be interpreted as broken or whatever. The thing is, at high level play, a good player will always convert off of any opening they get. If a Fox grabs a Falco, there is always a chance of him getting all the follow ups and killing him off of that grab. Wobbling isn't really that much harder of a punish than what all the other top tier characters have on each other; it's just easier. Even then, setting up the wobble against a good opponent is SO difficult. Usually it requires a series of desync setups and mixups to force an opening to allow you to start the wobble. Seeing those setups are really hype to me (for example, Wobbles catapaulting his desynced Nana with a full hop Down B to force Hbox into shield and initiate a wobble). I don't even play ICs, but they are incredibly layered and interesting.

tldr; Wobble setups are hype. If you're getting wobbled off of raw grabs, git gud.

 

[Sutekh]

IC's need wobbling to be viable, but that doesn't mean it's not lame. Melee is a spectator sport, and watching Nintendude wobble 4 stocks in a row is boring to watch. The difficulty of wobbling vs the payoff is what people have a problem with. I think it should be legal, but I think that players that rely heavily on those tactics to succeed deserve the hate they get.

 

[gmBottles]

Melee is a spectator sport, and watching Nintendude wobble 4 stocks in a row is boring to watch.

That does not matter in the slightest. Melee is about competition, and if you play to win, you do whatever it takes.

Spectators come second to the competition.

 

[-ACE-]

Melee is a spectator sport? Wow.

 

[Ladder]

Gay. .