Thoughts on playing for time out?

[CanadianMegaMan]

Hey guys, lately I've been experimenting with playing a hyper defensive keep away play style to try and build damage slowly while running the timer. It seems to work reasonably well with Megaman because of the projectile wall he creates with pellets, blades, and leaf shields. Has anyone else had any success with time out strats on megaman?

 

[Mega-Spider]

I personally don't like playing for time out. I understand that it is a valid strategy to use and only a few characters like Sonic can pull this off, but to me, it feels like a cheap way to win. Maybe it's because I don't like playing too defensively, and would rather strike a balance between offensive and defensive play. I know that Megs works better defensively than he does offensively, but I don't like timing out the clock, nor do I like the stigma that comes with it.

 

[Mythzotick]

You could also use Rush on the ground and play the cat & mouse game in the air if you really feel the need to do so because it is an option that can work, but it's such a low blow of a move to do that can leave a bitter taste in someone's mouth.

While going for a timeout does benefit Mega Man somewhat since he has the heavy weight+projectile wall combination, it can also be a huge drainer for you as each match drags on. 5 or 6 minutes can feel like an hour if all you're doing is playing super defensively to the point where it'll always be likely that a timeout will occur.

The only time I would probably ever go for it is if there just so happens to be 30 seconds or so left and neither character is in kill percent. I don't encourage going for a timeout, but if it's the option that you're the most comfortable in or it gives you the most success, then keep doing it until you feel like it's no longer worth it.

Even if I do win using this tactic, it doesn't feel all that satisfying to me. It actually makes me feel worse instead.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I've been practicing time outs by trying to time out the lvl 9 cpu in a 2 stock 15 minute game so 6 feels like nothing now. I can see what you guys mean about people getting salty about it, but I don't play this game to make other people feel good. I do have the courtesy to warn my opponents before hand, but I find it extremely satisfying to shut out all of their offense. Not only that, but it tilts my opponent and makes them more aggressive and easier to punish in subsequent games. I don't go for timeout every game though, just in certain MUs like link

 

[Mega-Spider]

Like I said, timing out the clock is a valid strategy. It's just a strategy that I personally don't like. The only time I'll ever stall a match completely is when Little Mac has his KO punch, and if I'm on a stage like Battlefield or Town and City. Remember when ScAtt used Rush Camping to stall out a Mac player? It took up so much time, but it's the best thing we have against Mac at that point since he can stomp all over our neutral with his amazing running speed and KO Punch being a godsend to him.

Other than that, I don't like timing the clock out.

 

[Nu~]

Makes me feel dirty. Like I took a bath in pig slop and dried myself off with a dirty table rag. I personally know how it feels to be camped out by repetitive keep away tactics (my training partner is a sonic that likes to time people out for fun...) so why would I want to do that to anyone else?

To win?

Nah, there are many other interesting ways to win in this game. To me at least.


It's boring to me as well, personally. Repetitive, stagnant, and overall uncreative. It does not coincide with why I play competitive smash in the first place.

I can see why some mega man mains in particular would want to do it (I mean...he kinda lends himself to that type of gameplay) but I could never relate.

 

[Azazel]

Megaman is simply too slow to time people out. He is most speedy vertically but that is not helpful against ledge traps(put self into juggle situation, or box your way out), nor does he have good zone breaker moves to escape ledge trapping.
Tldr
Megaman is too slow for cat and mouse, and doesn't have the options to punch through some one trapping him besides nair(up close, shield damage, knock back), dtilt(fastest frame option, legs intangible), dash attack(frame 8, lots of stage control on hit), leafshield(most powerful zone breaker, hit box while moving, thrown high priority, low lag)

If you do want to try cat and mouse I think leaf shield and nair plane are key. They will get you out when you are cornered.
Crash bomb is interesting, frustrated people will get stuck and you can essentially purposefully corner yourself(buying time easily without needing to consistently out play your opponent) and use crash bomb detonation as a planned escape.

The key is to buy time buy cornering yourself and planning escapes, collect metal blade + leaf shield + crash bombs to increase your escape options because they will catch up because megaman is too slow

Smart opponents know to be patient, and trap not chase and gradually take away your escape options.
Leaf shield can be waited and baited
Metablade in hand can be baited
Crash bomb can be easily counter (waiting or don't get hit)
Most reliable thing is nair plane zone breaker
And putting self in the air (rush) and play anti juggle

 

[Azazel]

I think the general strat is to collect escape options while playing anti juggle (or cat & mouse) at the same time
And when it's safer to play the anti trap game play anti trap and get some damage

 

[Azazel]

Ifeel like megaman falls short in this play style. He doesn't have anti juggle tools like bouncing fish or land8ng options that are safe on shield or a zone breaker like sonics spin dash nor the speed to punish across stage or run away. He's much better suited for countering this type of play by zoning and trapping which is why he gives sonic trouble

 

[CopShowGuy]

Mega Man isn't fast enough and doesn't rack up damage fast enough to play keep away reliably for an ENTIRE match. If the opponent gets in, Mega Man tends to eat a lot of damage too.

That said, I'll go for time outs if there's about 45 seconds left on the clock. I'll also stall for as long as I can when I'm up a stock and at a comfortable percent lead.

 

[ravemaster47]

I only stall mac. They get super frustrated and either SD or try to approach with up b. In which I air dodge and then up air him.

 

[Azazel]

Mega Man isn't fast enough and doesn't rack up damage fast enough to play keep away reliably for an ENTIRE match.

I only stall mac. They get super frustrated and either SD.

I think these are touching on something important I didn't think of. I described megamans ability to do this is not as strong as other characters in general.

This stratedgy may be very useful situationally. Mac for example for match up. And other evolving situations like leads and timer. This thread has good direction

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I've been using ditcit as a movement option to mitigate megaman's slow ground speed, and he's fairly fast in the air, as well as being able to weave back and forth in the air very quickly compared to most of the cast. If you think your opponent is going to corner you soon just wait for an opportunity to ditcit through them and reset neutral, it's really effective for being slippery. I think time outs could really be explored as a strat on megaman. Sure, it'll make some opponents REALLY salty, but that just means they get tilted and lose next game by being too aggro.

 

[Mega-Spider]

I've been using ditcit as a movement option to mitigate megaman's slow ground speed, and he's fairly fast in the air, as well as being able to weave back and forth in the air very quickly compared to most of the cast. If you think your opponent is going to corner you soon just wait for an opportunity to ditcit through them and reset neutral, it's really effective for being slippery. I think time outs could really be explored as a strat on megaman. Sure, it'll make some opponents REALLY salty, but that just means they get tilted and lose next game by being too aggro.

The thing with DITCIT is that it's a really hard thing to do. Sure, it takes practice to get right like Megs's entire character, but I don't think I've seen any Mega Main use DITCIT on command. ScAtt's the closest person I've seen get DITCIT consistently, but that's because I see him use it more than a lot of the other Mega Mains. I do think that timing out is a good strategy to use near the end of the match (last minute at latest), but not for an entire match. I had to do that with a Lucas player yesterday because all he did was use PK Fire to space himself, got off stage, and use Rope Snake to get back on stage. I had to wait it out until he got impatient and I took that time to stomp on him. That said, he almost killed me with his U-Throw near the end of a match, but I managed to DI myself to survive. I was at kill percentage too. He was pretty pissed about that loss, though.

 

[Rush 2112]

I never even notice the timer, so no. But MM isn't that slow. If you just run maybe, but if you dash multiple times and jump a lot he's fast enough to weave around just about any character. Plus using pellets to fill space to stuff their approach. It's not difficult to stall.

 

[Azazel]

I never even notice the timer, so no. But MM isn't that slow. If you just run maybe, but if you dash multiple times and jump a lot he's fast enough to weave around just about any character. Plus using pellets to fill space to stuff their approach. It's not difficult to stall.

Pellets don't quite stuff approaches rather just breifly interrupts it but at the cost of stage control. Nair and dtilt however does stuff things and has knock back.
There I remember this one random bayo just spamming jab and scatt kept using the pellets instead of nair (up close) or something with appreciable hitstun and found himself cornered and eating a full bayo jab.

The context was he just got a lead on this bayo and was playing this defensive keep away but got trapped by a simple silly strategy . Lemons (projectile) aren't meant to "stuff" things in a traditional sense.

Edit: found the set
It happens at 7:42

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

The thing with DITCIT is that it's a really hard thing to do. Sure, it takes practice to get right like Megs's entire character, but I don't think I've seen any Mega Main use DITCIT on command. ScAtt's the closest person I've seen get DITCIT consistently, but that's because I see him use it more than a lot of the other Mega Mains. I do think that timing out is a good strategy to use near the end of the match (last minute at latest), but not for an entire match. I had to do that with a Lucas player yesterday because all he did was use PK Fire to space himself, got off stage, and use Rope Snake to get back on stage. I had to wait it out until he got impatient and I took that time to stomp on him. That said, he almost killed me with his U-Throw near the end of a match, but I managed to DI myself to survive. I was at kill percentage too. He was pretty pissed about that loss, though.

The forward thrown ditcit is hard to do consistently, but the up throw ditcit is super easy to do though. I can do it on command. I do practice by doing it as many times in a row as I can and try to beat my previous number though, it starts to feel pretty natural when you do it 127 times in a row without fail

 

[Rush 2112]

Pellets don't quite stuff approaches rather just breifly interrupts it but at the cost of stage control. Nair and dtilt however does stuff things and has knock back.
There I remember this one random bayo just spamming jab and scatt kept using the pellets instead of nair (up close) or something with appreciable hitstun and found himself cornered and eating a full bayo jab.

The context was he just got a lead on this bayo and was playing this defensive keep away but got trapped by a simple silly strategy . Lemons (projectile) aren't meant to "stuff" things in a traditional sense.

The reason he eats that Bayo jab is because he's only doing short hops. He should have realized it wasn't working and did something different before running out of stage.

I suppose it is more accurate to say that it interrupts an approach but with enough of the right kind of pressure, coupled with the right kind of movement, it absolutely can keep them away and keep you safe. You can see some of what I mean in this video I just made.

 

[Azazel]

I believe this gives more insight onto uses for Lemons.

I think "just use lemons" or "lemons are good for blank" is much too general. Different hitbox and different movement can make all the differents especially since lemons jabs Ftilt and Nair all have varying hitboxes and knockback. heck the lemon alone have several different types of knockback based on distance.
Also because smash uses tracers you can also "drag" hitbox with your movement to make them more have more range (moving) and disjointed (retreating) or less disjointed (adavncingt). An extreme case of this is melee ness yo yo glitch

The projectile lemon is very good for interrupting, since it confuses opponents and they won't take advantage of the minicule hitstun consequently giving them a god frame advantage (about a 1/3 of a second, if they get hit by the max range pellet)

The opponent can counter lemons with a positional attack and eat the lemon, and effectively "trading." Once in they can use a direct attack which megaman has trouble dealing with because lack of priority in close range (besides nair).

Basically I think what happened to ScAtt was that he focuses on interrupting attacks using lemons and he just got baited by the bayo's trolling. He was at high percent and opponents that are hungry for stocks tend to throw out moves, so he was planning on getting chip damage using lemons. He was probably scared of their position thinking they could stuff out his aerial escape and take a stock with a bair or nair and also bayo jab beats nair. Then he continued to get backed into the corner waiting for an opening that was never given. It's a silly example to pick apart since it was just trolling but it has significance.

Short hop Nair is pretty good for stuffing/walling opponents short hop approaches. A good example would be the ike where he relies on short hop nair and bair to get in. Attempting to interrupt his approaches with lemons ends up with him out maneuvering your lemon and him getting in big damage. Where as walling his aerial approaches works wonderfully.
His Dash attack can be a scary mixup where he can combine a position attack with a Direct attack if you attempt to interrupt it with a lemon, he can purposefully get his dash attack interrupted and dtilt/jab and if you don't catch it in time you eat a dash attack

Walling with Nair is pretty ineffective if they are below you because nair has a bad hitbox for hitting opponents below megaman, but a good hitbox for hitting opponents above megaman.

Triple short hop nair (nair-ff nair- sh nair) is ridiculous as a Direct attack if you are in. Kamemushi does this a lot. This works wonderfully after "getting in" with a JC metalblade. This kind of lemon is perfect for pushing or preserving stage control.

Your video seems to be more of opponents not knowing how to deal with Lemons than a working around opponents counter-strats to your lemons. Perhaps show more than just your successes or show comebacks?

Spoiler

Captain falcon had stage control

Megaman had little stage control and couldn't retreat safely

 

[KillerqueenxTusk]

I heavily dislike timeout matches. To me, it seems cowardly to run away when you have the advantage and only shows you're actually afraid of the other person. Plus imagine what you'd do if there was no timer. Relying on that is a crutch imo

 

[smasher1001]

I heavily dislike timeout matches. To me, it seems cowardly to run away when you have the advantage and only shows you're actually afraid of the other person. Plus imagine what you'd do if there was no timer. Relying on that is a crutch imo

What is the goal of the game? To win, correct? So to do so we should do anything within the rules of the game to do that. Who cares if it's cowardly if it gets you the win? As to your question of what you would doif there was no timer, you could still play campy until the opponent said screw it and approached, giving you an advantage. The goal is to win, not to play the game with imaginary rules that say specific tactics are unfair.

 

[Knight Dude]

Hey guys, lately I've been experimenting with playing a hyper defensive keep away play style to try and build damage slowly while running the timer. It seems to work reasonably well with Megaman because of the projectile wall he creates with pellets, blades, and leaf shields. Has anyone else had any success with time out strats on megaman?

As some others have said, using Rush on the ground is a good way to move around and annoy people. I would reccomend using Crash bombs too since they almost always force an opponent to block or dodge. Though I'm far from a pro when it comes to Smash.

That said, despite Mega Man being my main, I can't really say I do too much stalling unless it's my only option. I tend to whittle someone from mid range and use a lot of throws so I can chip them down some more.