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Thoughts on Ness

Swedish_Otaku

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I hope it's ok to create this thread seeing that all sorts of weird threads are created left and right for no reason... Couldn't find a place to just talk about what I think about Ness.

Got the game today obviously. First time playing Ness in Smash 4. I've been a Ness main since the first game. Been playing for about 10 hours but with Ness maybe 6.

I think Ness is both buffed and nerfed, which doesn't make much sense, but some things are better and some worse. I think he's better over all from previous games, but that goes for a lot of characters. And the negatives/positives could also just be the game and not just Ness.

Down air, one of my favorite moves, now doesn't seem to be as strong and is more difficult to spike with. Really upset about this, maybe it's something I gotta learn but I just loved his dair in the other games. Now it hardly does anything.

The yoyo, not only does it look worse but now you can't hit with it while charging. It made perfect sense for him to "walk the dog". Looked so awesome and you could hurt people with it. Now it has lost some of it's uniqueness.

PK Flash is even more limited, I use all of Ness' moves and this one I loved even though it's hard to hit with. Still love it but it doesn't go as far and it doesn't go to the side in the first part of the animation.

I'm hoping back air is the same but maybe it's weaker. Which is so frustrating when it's one of his best moves. Except that, I don't like the animation where his legs are not as before, before it was more pointy and precise.

I miss the fire in his down throw. His Final Smash got worse... *sigh*

Everything else is better or the same. It's easier to point out the bad sides when you love a character. And I'm a little disappointed, but I guess I just have to get used to it. He's still my main for sure.

What do other Ness mains think of him now when you've played him?
 

Ganreizu

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Literally all of those moves have buffs, and no one cares about his final smash. Plus all of his customs have a use. He wasn't nerfed.
 
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Swedish_Otaku

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They are not buffed if they're harder to use and deals less knockback/procent. Tell me what I'm doing wrong then with dair for example. Also I'm not only saying it's nerfed/buffed, I'm saying I don't like these things cause they don't suit me.
 

Ganreizu

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They are not buffed if they're harder to use and deals less knockback/procent.
They are buffed if the reward is greater (dair can't be meteor cancelled) or if the speed is increased (bair is at least 2x as fast). Ness in general is harder to gimp now, and those buffs as well as his improved nair and pkt1 and fair benefit his strong gimp game. Again, not a nerf. If anything in dair's case it's a break even situation.

Tell me what I'm doing wrong then with dair for example.
Accept the strong non-spike hitbox into your life.

Also I'm not only saying it's nerfed/buffed, I'm saying I don't like these things cause they don't suit me.
You're a ness main so i find that hard to believe.
 
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Swedish_Otaku

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How is the reward greater? In both Melee and Brawl his dair and bair is very different. I didn't start up the games and checked but if I'm not wrong people slap to the ground or fly back without control. In Smash 4 they just get hit and get higher percent when they're not having much percent.

I don't know what meteor cancel is exactly, but even if that's a good thing then it doesn't make the attack hit better.

Don't start talking about other things I didn't say I dislike. These are the only things I dislike, everything else is great and I love that he's over all gotten a buff.

Not sure what you mean with "strong non-spike hitbox".

I really wanna learn if I'm doing anything wrong, it just doesn't feel like it hits hard like in other games. That's why I loved it, it hits people so damn hard and fast in to the ground or abyss.

I love Ness so damn much but I'm just being honest with what I like. People have different taste in character even if we both love the same character you know. I'd love to play against you so you can teach me if you know a better way to use these attacks.
 

j3lly

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I think Ness as a character got significantly buffed which excites me. However that doesn't mean much in the long run until we start to understand the game's mechanics and meta more.

Ness was buffed in Brawl as well but we all saw how grab shenanigans screwed him over.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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How good or bad a character is doesn't matter much to me, I use Ness because I love him as a character. His moves and attacks and design and personality and... character. Just saying that some things got worse and some things better. It's over all positive that people consider him buffed. I haven't touched his custom moves yet but with those being limited in play with humans I'm not sure I even wanna bother because I don't wanna be switching back and forth. I need to play one way and one way only. Just as I don't wanna jump between the games.

Gonna get in touch with a lot of Ness mains on Smashboards later but if anyone of you wanna exchange friendcodes, let me know.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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I also forgot to say that he really does have bad landing lag after his BAir.
 

Uffe

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I don't like his down air attack in this one. I remember being able to spike in previous games, but now it's flimsy. Can he still spike with it? If so, I haven't been very successful with it. Neutral air still seems good. I'll need to test his PK Flash in Training Mode to see how strong it is, whether it was buffed, nerfed, or kept the same. So far, I like him. I just wish his down air was as effective as previous Ness' in Smash.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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Yeah so do I. It can spike but I'm not sure where the sweet spot is or what percent is needed or if it matters. Nair has better reach at least. PK Flash is limited in it's controls like I said. I'm both sad and glad about his changes. At least they were pretty minor.

@ Uffe Uffe I'd like to play you sometime since you're a Ness main.

I need to practice D-air, jumping off the stage, coming back from above, up-air... and tilts. I have never use, didn't know they existed until a few years ago... I don't know how people do it, I can't ****ing move the stick that little in the heat of a battle. =S
 
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Gatoray

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I haven't got to play Ness just yet. I've been playing exclusively Classic mode with each character 1 by 1 going from top left to bottom right on the character select screen. Once I unlock everyone and everything, then I'll start playing online and have a real opinion of Ness.

However, something that REALLY NEEDS to be understood when it comes to yelling nerfs and buffs on a character is how that character plays in direct relation to other characters in the SAME GAME and should NOT be compared to how he played in other games. Let's say it's an objective fact that Ness really did get nerfed from Brawl. Well, that doesn't mean anything, because every other character could have been nerfed even more than Ness, and would mean that Ness actually got a buff.

Reason for edit: I've been playing too much smash and I forgot how to make sentences.
 
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Swedish_Otaku

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@ Gatoray Gatoray Aw nice a 100% Ness main. ^^ Or... hmm, Villager ey? ;P We gotta play, let's exchange friend codes and you tell.
5026 - 5652 - 5915
 

Gatoray

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@ Gatoray Gatoray Aw nice a 100% Ness main. ^^ Or... hmm, Villager ey? ;P We gotta play, let's exchange friend codes and you tell.
5026 - 5652 - 5915
Sure, I'll add you. I don't know how the ping will be when playing online from Western USA to Sweden, but I can give it a shot.
 

Ajj487

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I just picked him up in PM and now 3DS, and though I don't have too much to add in terms of technical stuff in 3ds, I love playing him :D
 

mygamecube

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He's buffed I can tell you that. I got my ass kicked by a Ness player online. Only one so far to 2 stock me.

His air game is improved and his strength increased just a touch. Back throw is as good as ever. He's a beast.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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Yes over all he's buffed for sure and that's sure about time and something we Ness mains appreciate very much.

Sure, I'll add you. I don't know how the ping will be when playing online from Western USA to Sweden, but I can give it a shot.
Well if you got some fast internet like me then it shouldn't be a problem.
You didn't add me yet? I added you.
 

thesage

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I think the yo yos are significantly better than before. Especially u-smash. The hitbox is much bigger now and covers Ness.

Dair sucks, older fair was better, nair doesn't last as long, uair has a better hitbox, bair is faster with more range but less powerful.

Pk fire is more spammable. Pkt is safer. Pk flash is balls.

Some of the new characters are broken as hell (Shulk, Mac (???), Rosalina, and French Frog that tastes like chicken) and give him some major issues. I have no idea how to deal with Shulk at all.
 

NocturnalQuill

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Ness feels different, but once you get used to him I think you'll find that he's been buffed considerably. dair and bair not hitting as hard are the main things you'll have to adapt to. I've found myself relying more in fair. It and his dash are godly now. Dthrow and Bthrow are as scary as ever. I'm not sure why, but PK Fire feels a lot safer. PK Thunder feels buffed too, though I can't quite figure out how. People give flash a lot of flak, but I still think it's a great edgeguarding move if you play smart. PSI Magnet got some strange but nice buffs (absorbs explosives now). Check out the reference thread when you get a chance.
 

Spinosaurus

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There's a Ness player I play against sometimes and he kicks my ass with him.

PKThunder is buffed big time. The buffed hitbox and different knockback compared to Brawl, and since the air dodge now has a pretty big landing lag, you don't really have many options in avoiding it, otherwise you'll get hit by a PKT2 if the Ness players sees your air dodge coming. Best way is to cancel it out is with an aerial.
It's an amazing and safe harassing move here. It's very difficult to land to the ground against Ness.
 
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Swedish_Otaku

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I think the yo yos are significantly better than before. Especially u-smash. The hitbox is much bigger now and covers Ness.

Dair sucks, older fair was better, nair doesn't last as long, uair has a better hitbox, bair is faster with more range but less powerful.

Pk fire is more spammable. Pkt is safer. Pk flash is balls.

Some of the new characters are broken as hell (Shulk, Mac (???), Rosalina, and French Frog that tastes like chicken) and give him some major issues. I have no idea how to deal with Shulk at all.
I just don't like that he doesn't walk the dog... Both from a visual and functional perspective.

So sad about dair. T_T My favorite aerial attack. I don't have problem with anyone you mention except Shulk... He's ****ing insane. Just jumping around and hitting that sword all over the place and so damn far.
 

NocturnalQuill

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I just don't like that he doesn't walk the dog... Both from a visual and functional perspective.

So sad about dair. T_T My favorite aerial attack. I don't have problem with anyone you mention except Shulk... He's ****ing insane. Just jumping around and hitting that sword all over the place and so damn far.
You must embrace the f air. Accept the f air into your life. Know it and love it.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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You must embrace the f air. Accept the f air into your life. Know it and love it.
Haha. Oh yes. Ofc, I use fair heavily and love it. Ever since 64 brother.
But it doesn't reach Shulk in time because of his massive range in every damn direction.
 

NocturnalQuill

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Haha. Oh yes. Ofc, I use fair heavily and love it. Ever since 64 brother.
But it doesn't reach Shulk in time because of his massive range in every damn direction.
Shulk might just be a bad matchup for Ness. Ness loves to be in the air, and Shulk has absurd range. Maybe try faking him out and punishing him, or force him to come to you.
 

Ganreizu

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Just abuse the start-up delay shulk has in every single move he has and avoid approaching when he tries to art cancel if he knows how and you should be fine.
 

Swedish_Otaku

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Shulk might just be a bad matchup for Ness. Ness loves to be in the air, and Shulk has absurd range. Maybe try faking him out and punishing him, or force him to come to you.
My playstyle has a lot of fake attacks to it. But I'll try spacing and keeping my distance the next time. I don't like to use just a few attacks but sometimes I should change my playstyle. Maybe I should just try and do projectiles with Shulk and then go in for the backthrow. Not so fun but gotta try and win.

Just abuse the start-up delay shulk has in every single move he has and avoid approaching when he tries to art cancel if he knows how and you should be fine.
I don't have time for neither man. And they just run off to change the art and I'm always too late to attack cause I'm too far away because of fear/being hit.
 

Fachewachewa

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I just spent some time against a good Shulk (i.e. not spamming backslash :3), and I used more PK thunder than usual.
His down smash is a problem, it seems super fast, and of course all of his attacks have crazy range, so he's not easy to approach.
I find myself using a lot of aerial approaches with aerial dodges, and counter attack in the air or behind him if he's on the ground, as he's kinda slow to recover after an attack.
 

thesage

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I think Ness is extremely different in this game since pk fire and pk thunder are actually useful in this game. I've just been playing for glory and haven't encountered anybody really good yet, but pk thunder juggling seems to be extremely good in this game. I think Ness' main priority now is to get people in the air with u-smash, dash attack, or uthrow and then juggle them with pkt.

The fact that airdodges have landing lag in this game gives him an easy punish into pkt2 after a pkt juggle.
 

Fachewachewa

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I can confirm that pkt2 is really effective to punish airdodges (and sometimes counter). I made A LOT of KOs this way in for glory.

You can also start the juggle in the air, if pk thunder hit the ennemy just above ness, you can usually land a pkt2 right after.
 
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