Thoughts on Jiggs in SSBU?

[Dan_X]

First of all, what do you guys think of Jiggs in SSBU? Combos? Rest combos? What have you found?

I'm not sure exactly how she differs from her Smash 4 incarnation but one thing I noticed that I believe to be different from Jiggs of past is her roll out (neutral B) now can only be held charging for a set amount of time then it automatically launches forward. Unless I'm crazy I don't believe it has ever worked like this before. I'm pretty sure you could just hold B and keep it spinning until you want to launch. If I'm not crazy, and this change is real, it's a lame nerf. I can't begin to tell you how many times this has messed me up and made me SD. Normally when I charge roll out I'm looking at the enemy and timing when I need to release B based off what they're doing. Now when I do that I launch when I don't expect to and sometimes don't react fast enough to not die. Lol why in earth would they change this? It's not like she was too strong before.

One thing that's annoying regarding the new rollout is that I use to use rollout as a followup to a getup attack or roll or whatever, but now a character who's lying on the ground can probably lay down long enough to where I have to launch and they can counter the rollout with their attack.

 

[Desu~]

Came back from the dead just to come and warn people to not get their hopes up.
Jigglypuff is still garbo confirmed.

They messed up rollout yet again but this time though they were going on such a good path with rollout only to kinda ruin it. not having much lag uncharged + the fact that endlag on hit has been cut would've made this move kinda viable if they didn't just tweaked this dumb thing where you can't hold down B anymore.

But it's not even about this move that Im gonna be talking about anyways.

First, they decided to make it so bair has this animation that makes you turn from bair's direction. So they basically killed bair pressure in favor of using fair as a poking tool, which is poor considering fair has basically no knockback on early %.

There is a significant reduction of endlag on most of Jiggs' moves, rest does not last a century and can be acted out as soon as she opens her eyes, and "combos" in general are easier to do. The problem about this is that this did not help at all as there was a general buff to a good chunk of the cast in terms of movement, heavies are actually faster than puff now, and characters are overall better at what puff was specialized to be good at in the first place (smash 4 all over again).

Now almost everyone's aerial trade against Puff's and from what I've experienced, she suffered the worst from those trades, Pound does not have enough priority to be a threat in neutral, not to mention she still has garbage range, garbage auto cancels compared to cursed characters like Inklings, and characters like Samus, Belmont Brothers and the likes won't even let you approach for the heck of it.

You can forget about using battlefield too. Everyone's so good with platforms they just straight out outperform Jiggs in all aspects.

Im really bummed out about this. What were your experiences with Puff fellas?

 

[Dan_X]

Came back from the dead just to come and warn people to not get their hopes up.
Jigglypuff is still garbo confirmed.

They messed up rollout yet again but this time though they were going on such a good path with rollout only to kinda ruin it. not having much lag uncharged + the fact that endlag on hit has been cut would've made this move kinda viable if they didn't just tweaked this dumb thing where you can't hold down B anymore.

But it's not even about this move that Im gonna be talking about anyways.

First, they decided to make it so bair has this animation that makes you turn from bair's direction. So they basically killed bair pressure in favor of using fair as a poking tool, which is poor considering fair has basically no knockback on early %.

There is a significant reduction of endlag on most of Jiggs' moves, rest does not last a century and can be acted out as soon as she opens her eyes, and "combos" in general are easier to do. The problem about this is that this did not help at all as there was a general buff to a good chunk of the cast in terms of movement, heavies are actually faster than puff now, and characters are overall better at what puff was specialized to be good at in the first place (smash 4 all over again).

Now almost everyone's aerial trade against Puff's and from what I've experienced, she suffered the worst from those trades, Pound does not have enough priority to be a threat in neutral, not to mention she still has garbage range, garbage auto cancels compared to cursed characters like Inklings, and characters like Samus, Belmont Brothers and the likes won't even let you approach for the heck of it.

You can forget about using battlefield too. Everyone's so good with platforms they just straight out outperform Jiggs in all aspects.

Im really bummed out about this. What were your experiences with Puff fellas?

Aww man. Bummer. We'll have to see how things pan out but from what you say her future isn't looking promising. Sadly I haven't had a chance to play against friends yet and I kind of refuse to pay for Nintendo's trash online service and the fact that you can't even guarantee 1vs1 with no items. That said, I haven't even used bairs for approaching with Jiggs in this game yet because I haven't needed to versus the ai. They are so stupid fair, Nair, and rollout wrecks them.

The rollout nerf is huge and so effing stupid.

Yeah...i have no idea how Jiggs will deal with characters like the Belmont Brothers. They have so much disjointed range it's crazy. Also... I feel like this new shield parry (perfect shield) system could be a big game changer. It looks like it's something you can pull off way more intentionally and consistently than before and it puts the attacker in a slight stun and frame disadvantage. It looks like this will have a huge impact on characters that have telegraphed aerial approaches. I can see it now, Jigg's obvious aerial attacks just being easily perfect shielded and being counter attacked. Now obviously noone will always be able to perfect shield properly... but from what I've seen it seems like it can be done more consistently than in any smash. It will be interesting to see how top players take advantage of the new perfect shielding.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Landing D-air to Rest is an exciting kill confirm now that the landing lag has been halved. But they can often be knocked too far from Jiggs for the Rest to reach every single time. So hopefully there's a way to predict their trajectory and guarantee this followup. You can D-air multihit to grab or an Utilt string if you're not feeling confident.

Falling U-air is certainly improved from 4. Not just because of the 6 frames less landing lag but because Jiggs rises much faster in her initial jump as another engine change. Before you had to double jump immediately for decent height, but now you can get the most out of her full hop height before double jumping, improving your reach with the rest as a followup. However, approaching people with a raw short hop U-air is a risky proposal. The move still has no serious horizontal reach and isn't safe on block unless you cross up. U-tilt to Rest is also more doable, but I doubt is a true combo at kill ranges.

Rollout has a laundry list of buffs. Base damage now 20 from 14. Endlag on hit is reduced, but still very punishable. She can grab ledges during her helpless fall state. Which means you won't die if you rollout back onto the stage while your opponent sits with their shield up at the ledge. She can also lightly drift to the left and right while in free fall. I don't think Rollout is suddenly good now, but I do appreciate the vastly reduced risk in choosing to use it. Pound's endlag reduction leads to some easier followups. Pound to rest is feasible, but only a kill if you nail them with a very late hit very high up at low percents which is an unlikely scenario to be in.

But altogether none of Jigglypuff's buffs are real head turners. Sing being sped up so that it takes 2.5 seconds instead of 3.0 seconds isn't as big of a deal as if they increased the range or made it so you could put them to sleep through shields. Rest having 20 less endlag is nice, but only covers for how much faster they reach the blast zone. Perfect Shielding should open up her punish game, but everybody's benefiting from that. Being able to tilt or Smash out of a run is not as big of a deal for her as it is for most veterans and her dash attack was her go to move on the ground in the first place. The only engine change that really helps her out more than the average character is rising faster on your initial jump.

 

[Vermilion]

Came back from the dead just to come and warn people to not get their hopes up.
Jigglypuff is still garbo confirmed.

They messed up rollout yet again but this time though they were going on such a good path with rollout only to kinda ruin it. not having much lag uncharged + the fact that endlag on hit has been cut would've made this move kinda viable if they didn't just tweaked this dumb thing where you can't hold down B anymore.

But it's not even about this move that Im gonna be talking about anyways.

First, they decided to make it so bair has this animation that makes you turn from bair's direction. So they basically killed bair pressure in favor of using fair as a poking tool, which is poor considering fair has basically no knockback on early %.

There is a significant reduction of endlag on most of Jiggs' moves, rest does not last a century and can be acted out as soon as she opens her eyes, and "combos" in general are easier to do. The problem about this is that this did not help at all as there was a general buff to a good chunk of the cast in terms of movement, heavies are actually faster than puff now, and characters are overall better at what puff was specialized to be good at in the first place (smash 4 all over again).

Now almost everyone's aerial trade against Puff's and from what I've experienced, she suffered the worst from those trades, Pound does not have enough priority to be a threat in neutral, not to mention she still has garbage range, garbage auto cancels compared to cursed characters like Inklings, and characters like Samus, Belmont Brothers and the likes won't even let you approach for the heck of it.

You can forget about using battlefield too. Everyone's so good with platforms they just straight out outperform Jiggs in all aspects.

Im really bummed out about this. What were your experiences with Puff fellas?

I couldn't disagree more. Pound does a ton of shield damage and is actually a great combo starter. She can perform reliant true combos into rest that are pretty easy to perform on all characters, and her aerial game is way better in this game thanks to the air dodge nerfs.

 

[Dan_X]

I couldn't disagree more. Pound does a ton of shield damage and is actually a great combo starter. She can perform reliant true combos into rest that are pretty easy to perform on all characters, and her aerial game is way better in this game thanks to the air dodge nerfs.

What have you found the combos to be that lead into rest? I'm sorry, I can't play as much as much as I'd like to because of stuff in life. I don't have time to figure out much on my own right now.

 

[Toyamasmash]

Puff is lethal, you just gotta play Floyd mayweather style and really be super evasive her forward air blocks most projectiles, it’s so much different playing offline because no lag. As far as the rollout it’s just going to take practice we are only a few days in. When you really learn how to move her it feels like magic only a week in, it’s going to be crazy after a month. Watching Hbox videos is really gonna help, and if you can murder with her in this game your melee power is gonna go way up I feel. I’m in love with this character more than ever. So much fun playing around in training it blows my mind.

Anyways everybody is complaining too much I have watched a few of these low tier characters in arena mode work absolute magic, I saw a mega man put up an impenetrable wall of projectiles like a fireworks show three stocking everyone in his path. I hope to honor puff in a similar way

 

[Desu~]

Aight, here's the thing.

Puff has been better from both brawl and smash wiiu by a long shot, that's for sure.
Along with the rest of the cast, her cancels and end lag have been greatly reduced, allowing for more options. And Rest has been made so that it's harder to punish if you get a quick ko.

Right now I feel like a lot of you gets positive feedback for Puff for the wrong reasons. Y'all say she's good because of combos, and that's incredibly misleading. She gets dumped on by sword users, zoners, and characters that has more range than Puff. Most of her aerial moves has been iffy when trading against other aerials and that is an actual problem since she's supposed to be so good in the air.

What's more, her ground game is still garbage since as of right now most people tend to go for grabs, which Puff can't do the same because of her abysmal range. And Pound can't help you too long because the range is still short and can be outspaced.

The meta that Im seeing right now is pretty damn campy, and that doesn't help Puff in any aspects. So we can talk about combos as much as we want, but with weaknesses as obvious as this, we gotta have to find this one thing that helps her neutral.

This leads me to parries atm. That stuff looks super situational tho. But with that supposed 3 frames of advantage, you could do something about it.

 

[King Ching]

From my experience playing Puff in Smash 4 vs Puff in Ultimate:

Pros:
-Her edge guarding game is much stronger and easier. This is due to air dodge nerfs (characters can only air dodge once), and the nerfs to most characters recoveries and aerial speed trying to get back to the ledge (most characters can't recover as well as they did in Smash 4). Edge guarding and off stage is her biggest advantage to me at the moment (I was actually able to wall of pain Yoshi, Ridley, K Rool, Ike, Pikachu, Doc, and several other characters completely off the stage into the blast zone easily).
-Second biggest buff I've seen is Puff's shield pressure. Pound breaks shields much earlier due to change in shield damage mechanics. I've broken shields about 50% of the time more in Ultimate than in Smash 4. Also Rollout has greater shield pressure and can break many shields in just two or three hits (passes of rollout). I broke a full Ike Shield with Rollout in just 2 hits of Rollout.
-Puff's aerials have less ending lag. People will argue that everyone's moves has less lag, and that's true. However, what matters is that the less landing lag for Puff's aerials makes it easier for her to combo and get rest follow ups vs Smash 4 (ex. uair to rest is much easier).
-Sing has been buffed because the range is bigger and people have not adapted to the sing range buff yet. Sing is a greater tool now for covering rolls and its a better mix up than in Smash 4.

Cons:
-Rollout obviously can't be held down anymore, which may cause Puff Players to suddenly rollout and SD.
-Rest is harder to hit on the ground because characters can no longer dash through each other. This means its impossible to run up to a character standing still and rest them (you would need to jump into them in order to rest them).
-Still no kill throw or true combo throws. Puff's grab range is still terrible and her dash grab still has a ton of end lag.
-Puff can still get out ranged by sword users and anyone with a long reach. This means Puff players have to have better spacing than their opponent to win, which is difficult to do against many match ups.
-Air Dodging for Puff is bad because her air dodge has so much end lag now. This means air dodging to rest is almost impossible. Its also easy to SD if Puff air dodges, misses the ledge, and goes into free fall for awhile since she has no UP b recovery.

Overall:
-Puff is doesn't feel like a top tier, but doesn't feel like a complete bottom tier either.
-Puff in Ultimate is definitely better and more buffed than Puff in Smash 4.
-Puff could potentially be a mid tier, but its early so only time will tell.

 

[Toyamasmash]

That maneuverability is unmatched, I think the true players are gonna have a fun time. It’s more so the mental games with puff than anything!

 

[Desu~]

Ok here's the thing.
Why is it that pound is so bad against aerials now?

Edit: oh and also, I'd love that Jiggs had this up grab that actually kills at high %. That way people would finally start to respect Jiggs grab game.

 

[FunAtParties]

Puff main in Smash 4, I'm not really into her rn.

The bair turnaround is an extremely frustrating and pointless change, rest combos still take too long to kill, and she lacks neutral tools. I dont understand these design choices

 

[NeonBurrito]

We're still early in the meta, but I've found that Puff has a whole lot more tools at her disposal. Things in particular I've picked up on:

• First and foremost, her edge guarding game is really strong. Easily the most useful thing I've found to do with her in Ultimate. Because of the airdodge changes, preventing people from getting back on stage is really easy, and for the time being, seems like one of the best options for her in most games.
• Rollout got some extreme buffs, to the point where I can actually find some use for it against people who aren't expecting it. First of all, the fact that it no longer puts Puff into freefall is incredible, but it is especially brutal on shielding opponents, and can easily come close to breaking shields when hitting twice with it. I'm not really sure if this will remain the case in the future, but it's been working well in Elite Smash.
• Similarly, Pound does a ton of shield damage as well, a lot more than in other games. Puff eats them up.
• The new rest cancels for landing a successful rest are phenomenal and ties in well with a lot of Puff's new shield breaking tools. Falling UAir -> Rest seems like the bread and butter rest combo this early on, and works on most characters at lower percents.
• Universal jump squat change does wonders for Puff and allows her to get into the air much quicker than usual.

However, there are two pretty big things holding her back at the moment:

• BAir turnaround is really rough. Like, I really don't know why they thought it was a good idea. BAir walling has been a staple of Puff's since 64,
• I've found that a lot of commonly used high tier threats (most notably the Belmonts and the Marth Quadfecta) are absolutely brutal on Puff. They outrange, outdamage, and outspeed the hell out of Puff. Matches like these really just come down to Puff having to be patient, wait for an opening, attack, and getting the hell out of there. Not much fun most of the time.

Overall, she's for sure a ton better than she was in Smash 4, but she's hardly anything close to top tier. I don't think she's as bad as some people in this thread are making her out to be though. We'll just see as time progresses.

 

[FunAtParties]

We're still early in the meta, but I've found that Puff has a whole lot more tools at her disposal. Things in particular I've picked up on:

• First and foremost, her edge guarding game is really strong. Easily the most useful thing I've found to do with her in Ultimate. Because of the airdodge changes, preventing people from getting back on stage is really easy, and for the time being, seems like one of the best options for her in most games.
• Rollout got some extreme buffs, to the point where I can actually find some use for it against people who aren't expecting it. First of all, the fact that it no longer puts Puff into freefall is incredible, but it is especially brutal on shielding opponents, and can easily come close to breaking shields when hitting twice with it. I'm not really sure if this will remain the case in the future, but it's been working well in Elite Smash.
• Similarly, Pound does a ton of shield damage as well, a lot more than in other games. Puff eats them up.
• The new rest cancels for landing a successful rest are phenomenal and ties in well with a lot of Puff's new shield breaking tools. Falling UAir -> Rest seems like the bread and butter rest combo this early on, and works on most characters at lower percents.
• Universal jump squat change does wonders for Puff and allows her to get into the air much quicker than usual.

However, there are two pretty big things holding her back at the moment:

• BAir turnaround is really rough. Like, I really don't know why they thought it was a good idea. BAir walling has been a staple of Puff's since 64,
• I've found that a lot of commonly used high tier threats (most notably the Belmonts and the Marth Quadfecta) are absolutely brutal on Puff. They outrange, outdamage, and outspeed the hell out of Puff. Matches like these really just come down to Puff having to be patient, wait for an opening, attack, and getting the hell out of there. Not much fun most of the time.

Overall, she's for sure a ton better than she was in Smash 4, but she's hardly anything close to top tier. I don't think she's as bad as some people in this thread are making her out to be though. We'll just see as time progresses.

Is Pound really that significantly better than in Smash 4 where it did like 50% shield damage?

 

[King Ching]

Is Pound really that significantly better than in Smash 4 where it did like 50% shield damage?

Yes Pound does 75% to 80% Shield damage now

 

[Toyamasmash]

Dude I’m loving it, I think the thing about puffs bad match ups with the fire emblem and link characters is rough, but I have really been putting in work on my rest, and it’s so gratifying. Just gotta get good and really anticipate where to put your kicks. It mentally destroys most getting a rest early on in the match with that flower lol.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Low mid at best... if not low tier. Not bottom, but she still has issues and her playstyle isn't particularly strong in Smash Ultimate. Biggest issue is lack of real combos into rest or kill moves (I'd even take smash 64 d-air to u smash), and out ranged by most of the cast. I can see high tiers annihilating her, so as usual this regulates her usefulness to a pocket character/counter pick. There's far better options than Puff in this game... again... :/

I hope I'm wrong about my first impressions of her... :/

 

[Desu~]

The forced foxtrot doesn't necessarily help too. She can't pivot as well as she used to in smash4 because you have to wait for your dash before inputting any tilt attacks whatsoever, and is overall subpar along with her tools compared to the rest of the cast.

And right now the fire emblem crew is so braindead good right now it's not even funny.

Things would be better for Jiggs if she had any reliable kill options for the current meta. As much as she got buffed in the movement departement none of her move kills at a reasonable %. God knows how many times I've landed a killing blow at high % with bair and still didn't managed to ko the opponents. Utilt is now an unreliable kill move and the most frail looking characters aside from jiggs has dumb kill throws they shouldn't have.

So really, Im just super irritated about the sword fellas and zoners. Jiggs will probably be good in side tournaments with items on. I suggest y'all start looking at some better characters for now.

btw, parry into rest is so amazing, but it's so bad because everybody doesn't want to get close to you afterwards and starts camping on you and outplaying you with zoning.

 

[Teeb147]

I was hoping to find more focus on how she CAN be good, rather than looking at her flaws so much. The more we push the character, the better she'll get. I'd like to see all the combos available, but I guess that'll take a bit more time.

Puff is an aerial character, and she's pretty good there, make no mistake on that. Many characters are super fast on the ground, so it'll be about outplaying in the air one way or another. I get that sword characters are fast with attacks too now, so it might take a bit more to figure out how to handle them, but I think there are ways, maybe it'll mean playing a bit risky off the edge, dunno, but it's worth exploring. Or just not solo-playing puff.

Let's see what can happen. HBox will be at least one place to look for inspiration. Hopefully more combos are going to be posted too

 

[R O F L]

Edit: Whoops, wrong thread. Nothing wrong with seeing this, though.

Fast fall Uair might true combo into rest? I've tried it with shuffling on, and to level 8 CPUS, and it seems to work at about 40% to Mario. It also seems to KO on all battlefield platforms.

??? I've been able to get it consistently w shuffling on. Someone else try this with DI. (I don't have a second controller)

Fair also seems like it might combo at around 40% too.

 

[Luigifan18]

I'm using Jigglypuff in World of Light in lieu of Ness, who I have yet to unlock (in WoL). Jigglypuff is still the aerial blitzkrieg fiend I know and love. She was my character of choice for hilariously roflstomping Snorlax, among several other Spirits.

https://www.facebook.com/100005288382015/posts/892271657625772

 

[MisterDom]

Puff is a bait and punish character. What she needs in neutral is effective options to pressure an opponent and to condition an opponent.

Don’t get me wrong. She still has some options. But overall, she’s bad. Like, really bad.

One noticeable nerf, whether intended or not, is the bair turnaround thing. Bair was one of her greatest tools in Smash 4 as it had an effective auto cancel and safe spacing, and ledge trump bair was one of her consistent killing options. With only being able to throw it out once, and ledge trumping not viable with puff in Ultimate, this is a significant nerf.

And then there’s pound. Pound was never necessarily safe to just throw out in neutral, but it was an effective pressuring tool on low shields and can bait an opponent. Though I don’t believe pound was nerfed itself (I need to be fact checked on that), because of how Ultimate plays and how fast everyone is, it’s generally extremely unsafe to throw out, and especially in a competitive setting. This tool is effectively worthless and easier to punish for most characters.

Another great option Jigglypuff had in Smash 4 was dair. It applied shield pressure, was a great combo and punishing tool, was an effective edge guarding tool, could be used to cover ledge options, and etc. Dair still covers some options in Ultimate, but overall is a worse move. It has lost most of its combo potential, and you can’t easily full hop dair anymore, since if you buffer dair too early, the game will force a short hop and you’ll get punished. Since most characters have more options on platforms and jumping out of shield is more rewarding, trying to pressure with dair is more difficult, though possible.

The biggest flaw Jigglypuff had in Smash 4, which was her lack of viable kill options, has only intensified. Like I said, ledge trump bair is effectively over with Puff. Pressuring with bair is nonexistent. Rest is harder to land as punishing in this game is more difficult, especially for a slow character like Puff. Her edge guarding game isn’t much better, with some nerfs by losing options such as bair and dair, and some buffs since characters can’t air dodge excessively (though that wasn’t even much of a problem at a competitive level, so this won’t be much of a buff anyway). She can edge guard slightly better, but other than that, she loses bair, she won’t be resting much, and dash attack is simply unsafe. It’s bad.

The only noticeable buff she has is up air to rest, which is easier to perform and has a bigger range. This doesn’t make up for what she loses though.

If she doesn’t have an effective neutral, doesn’t have as many options as Smash 4, and a horrid punish game, I’m willing to bet she will be one of if not the worst characters in the game. At a competitive level, she is undoubtedly worse than she was in Smash 4, and I’ll definitely pick up another character if not drop her entirely.

 

[Teeb147]

Puff is a bait and punish character. What she needs in neutral is effective options to pressure an opponent and to condition an opponent.

Don’t get me wrong. She still has some options. But overall, she’s bad. Like, really bad.

One noticeable nerf, whether intended or not, is the bair turnaround thing. Bair was one of her greatest tools in Smash 4 as it had an effective auto cancel and safe spacing, and ledge trump bair was one of her consistent killing options. With only being able to throw it out once, and ledge trumping not viable with puff in Ultimate, this is a significant nerf.

And then there’s pound. Pound was never necessarily safe to just throw out in neutral, but it was an effective pressuring tool on low shields and can bait an opponent. Though I don’t believe pound was nerfed itself (I need to be fact checked on that), because of how Ultimate plays and how fast everyone is, it’s generally extremely unsafe to throw out, and especially in a competitive setting. This tool is effectively worthless and easier to punish for most characters.

Another great option Jigglypuff had in Smash 4 was dair. It applied shield pressure, was a great combo and punishing tool, was an effective edge guarding tool, could be used to cover ledge options, and etc. Dair still covers some options in Ultimate, but overall is a worse move. It has lost most of its combo potential, and you can’t easily full hop dair anymore, since if you buffer dair too early, the game will force a short hop and you’ll get punished. Since most characters have more options on platforms and jumping out of shield is more rewarding, trying to pressure with dair is more difficult, though possible.

The biggest flaw Jigglypuff had in Smash 4, which was her lack of viable kill options, has only intensified. Like I said, ledge trump bair is effectively over with Puff. Pressuring with bair is nonexistent. Rest is harder to land as punishing in this game is more difficult, especially for a slow character like Puff. Her edge guarding game isn’t much better, with some nerfs by losing options such as bair and dair, and some buffs since characters can’t air dodge excessively (though that wasn’t even much of a problem at a competitive level, so this won’t be much of a buff anyway). She can edge guard slightly better, but other than that, she loses bair, she won’t be resting much, and dash attack is simply unsafe. It’s bad.

The only noticeable buff she has is up air to rest, which is easier to perform and has a bigger range. This doesn’t make up for what she loses though.

If she doesn’t have an effective neutral, doesn’t have as many options as Smash 4, and a horrid punish game, I’m willing to bet she will be one of if not the worst characters in the game. At a competitive level, she is undoubtedly worse than she was in Smash 4, and I’ll definitely pick up another character if not drop her entirely.

Dair is better now and has combos including into rest. She has a bunch of other good tools too.
Also, it's really early, and there's no reason to think she cant be played well.

You're free to post your opinions, but they're really skewed against the character, you're not looking at her strengths much, and there's also little point in looking at the worst if you like the character, and im sure many people here want to see how far she can be pushed, not just what seems to be flaws. She has potential, and the more you look at it, the more you'll realize she's actually a decent character.

I'll stop there, and I dont feel like debating so I wont respond more, but I said what I wanted to

 

[MisterDom]

Dair is better now and has combos including into rest. She has a bunch of other good tools too.
Also, it's really early, and there's no reason to think she cant be played well.

You're free to post your opinions, but they're really skewed against the character, you're not looking at her strengths much, and there's also little point in looking at the worst if you like the character, and im sure many people here want to see how far she can be pushed, not just what seems to be flaws. She has potential, and the more you look at it, the more you'll realize she's actually a decent character.

I'll stop there, and I dont feel like debating so I wont respond more, but I said what I wanted to

Perhaps they are skewed, and you are right that I’m not looking at her strengths.

Like I said, up air to rest is a lot better, which is a good thing, and might be competitively viable, though we still have to test it at a tourney.

Some options in the game favor puff as well. For example, this game revolves less around grabbing out of shield and more around jumping out of shield, so when two characters are shielding next to each other, puff can short hop fair/nair or full hop fair while spacing away.

But other than those two buffs, she doesn’t have much going for her. She lost a lot of powerful options, gained a couple minor options, but largely stayed the same while the game evolved into a meta that doesn’t favor Jigglypuff’s neutral. Jigglypuff has a mix of buffs and strong nerfs, and every other character got buffed. I love puff. I’m disappointed that the game has done this to her. But regardless, it happened, and in a competitive setting, she is so far pretty unviable. I’ll still fiddle with her, hope for buffs, and contribute to building her meta game, but right now, it just doesn’t look good, and it’s a misconception that she might be better than her last iteration.

 

[Teeb147]

Perhaps they are skewed, and you are right that I’m not looking at her strengths.

Like I said, up air to rest is a lot better, which is a good thing, and might be competitively viable, though we still have to test it at a tourney.

Some options in the game favor puff as well. For example, this game revolves less around grabbing out of shield and more around jumping out of shield, so when two characters are shielding next to each other, puff can short hop fair/nair or full hop fair while spacing away.

But other than those two buffs, she doesn’t have much going for her. She lost a lot of powerful options, gained a couple minor options, but largely stayed the same while the game evolved into a meta that doesn’t favor Jigglypuff’s neutral. Jigglypuff has a mix of buffs and strong nerfs, and every other character got buffed. I love puff. I’m disappointed that the game has done this to her. But regardless, it happened, and in a competitive setting, she is so far pretty unviable. I’ll still fiddle with her, hope for buffs, and contribute to building her meta game, but right now, it just doesn’t look good, and it’s a misconception that she might be better than her last iteration.

Well, keep open. Maybe don't solo-main her if you feel that way. I think she has a lot more potential, it's been not even one month since release, the meta is still new, and no one's really mastered a character. Anyway, looking forward to what will come, I think she has enough tools to be good.

Both fair and bair can be fast-felled right after short-hopping out with them, so I think someone could still pressure with bair if they wanted to, since the turn-around doesnt matter as much there. I think fair is good by itself tho, and nair is a lot better now, I've been using it quite a bit. Using a lot of characters still though, so I dont consider myself at the forefront for puff. Going to use her more from now on tho. Let's see how far she can go.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don’t know if anybody’s mentioned this, but one of the most important changes to Jigglypuff is definitely the physics on her ears.

See how they fold now?

 

[Dan_X]

I thought it might be worth mentioning that a full hop from Jiggs brings her model half way through the lowest platforms of battlefield at which point she can Waveland onto them to gain the rest of the height. The angle that you Waveland affects the amount that you will slide but you can slide across about 75% of the platform. This isn't anything super over the top useful, but it is a handy movement tech for spacing purposes. Once you get the timing down it's really easy to consistently do.

Have you guys found this/ found any other uses?

 

[Luxent]

I never cared for Puff before, but I found her to be so much FUN in this game!!

I love walling people out with Fair/Nair... which is rather easy to do. Its awesome.
Im soooo close to Elite with her too.

I do find a lot of moves kinda useless though. I dont think Ive never use Upsmash or DownSmash or DownTilt..... I use everything else though.

 

[Toyamasmash]

I’ve been in Elite secure for about a week, I have fallen out a time or two but stormed back when they let me play people in normal matchmaking. Puffs rollout is amazing in this game and when you raise your sleep prowess and execute you can really string together wins in elite smash. I think a lot of people just get angry because you’re playing in such a cute character who doesn’t even wield the sword or projectile. It is such a simple approach to playing smash that you have to get in close to everybody at all times. There is simply just not a way to text somebody without doing that. I really see this character having potential to be the top character, Especially when you raise your game to get around some of the polarizing moved to the top tier characters. It’s been quite an experience of being in elite smash as some these people are just unbelievable. I will participate in my first live tournament in a couple weeks and I’m pretty excited.

 

[King Ching]

Here is a tournament clip of me getting a Wall of Pain Zero to Death twice on my opponent. Jigglypuff's edge guarding is stronk is this game! Also my opponent Pyro is a great player and took second recently I was fortunate to get him good in Game 2.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantStrongJamCclamChamp

 

[Toyamasmash]

Here is a tournament clip of me getting a Wall of Pain Zero to Death twice on my opponent. Jigglypuff's edge guarding is stronk is this game! Also my opponent Pyro is a great player and took second recently I was fortunate to get him good in Game 2.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantStrongJamCclamChamp

That my friend was a wonderful game against one of puffs toughest matchups... my puffs better though lol
Seriously amazing work with the jiggz!!!

 

[King Ching]

That my friend was a wonderful game against one of puffs toughest matchups... my puffs better though lol
Seriously amazing work with the jiggz!!!

Thank you I've been practicing :-)

 

[Luigifan18]

Here is a tournament clip of me getting a Wall of Pain Zero to Death twice on my opponent. Jigglypuff's edge guarding is stronk is this game! Also my opponent Pyro is a great player and took second recently I was fortunate to get him good in Game 2.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantStrongJamCclamChamp

I'll be watching a lot of this.

 

[Toyamasmash]

This new Dair to rest is pretty phenomenal! Keep resting friends.