Thoughts about Cloud in Ultimate?

[Chrollolith]

Hello everyone!
I made this thread for “recopilating” information about the new Cloud, as you could see, he seems as familiar as strange from sm4sh, i can’t really see which one more, and i played him a lot in smash 4, but just for fun, and now in ultimate i find him very comfortable, enough to bring him to the competitive scene, but i am not pretty sure how good he is, he looks as strong as always but which all these changes, i need to talk and discuss with other cloud players, i guess that’s what i need to finally find him okay.
Obviously, this isn’t just for me, this is my personal case, but i guess it would be ok to talk about him and give tips and tricks about his gameplay.

(Btw, i’m not really deep in forums, i’m practically new in smashboard, if this isn’t the place where i should do this kind of thread, i’m so sorry, i’ll accept any advice and help about it)

 

[dingeyeycl]

I am having a lot of fun with him, nearing the 1.7 mil mark with him online. There is no better feeling than having momentum with him, knocking them into the air and just blasting their ass over and over with Cloud's crazy aerials. Full hop fast fall fair is nutty too, pretty safe if you space it and the range is huge. Short hopping fair is an ok approach or a punish, but its pretty punishable. Getting those fair chains though just feels so satisfying. Blade beam is also a really decent projectile, it can beat out of negate alot of them (not great against Krool's crown though). Very nice to just strengthen his already great neutral, and its also great to just throw out at people who back roll a lot.


There are 3 big problems I feel cloud has

1. His recovery is ****. No way around this, if you don't have limit, it is super easy to just gimp him.

2. Hyper rushdown can give him some issues. If you didn't space well and they are all in your grill, might have a tough time. I have found Climhazzard to be a really good tool for this though. The move is just absurdly fast, makes a wall in front of you, and does insane damage. Definitely a good move to have for people trying to rush you down.

3. Killing people. All his limit moves kill at a pretty early percent, sure, but it is also super telegraphed now that we have a time limit. Most people just go super defensive if they see you have limit, and can make it difficult (I have had this be a blessing sometimes though, as people tend to spam back roll to get away, and nothing ****s a back roller like a limit blade beam does). His foward smash can kill at a reasonable percent, but if it gets blocked you are gonna have a bad time, and in general is pretty slow. Up smash also definitely feels like it takes forever to kill with.. All his other kill moves have a hard time until around the 120% mark in my experience. I've seen Krools survive my backair or foward tilt at 180% and it is super frustrating.

 

[CreamPig]

I'm a Cloud Main since I play Smash.. (joined pretty lately but played about 150hrs with him) and he was a very solid character in 4. He got some really huge nerfs in Ultimate and made me sad, but he's still playable.
Nerfs
-Bair and Nair Range nerf
-15sec Limit Status
-UpAir Range and Dmg nerf

I prefer the Zoning playstyle with much Ground attacks and shorthop UpAirs and Bairs. He's UpTilt is still pretty insane so if you can, go always for 2uptilt shorthop upair or nair..guaranteed dmg and pretty safe.
If you REALLY want to win then use your Cross Slash very often. You can use it instead of Jabs, but I'm sure everyone's gonna hate you but its really powerful.
If you are in the LIMIT BREAK status, go for grabs. They are going to play defensive using lot of shields and rolls. Rolls are very punishable and you can counter their Shields with grabs. If they are still playing agressive, punish them with a LimitBreak CrossSlash or Limit Beam. Good Advice: there are 3 great edge guard moves of Cloud. Bair from Edge Grabing or the 2frame Finishing Touch. Practise it and you will ruin the day of some online players for sure. The third one isn't that safe, but it can leads you to kill very early. If you hit a sweetspot with the FAir when Clouds sword is horizontal you are going to spike the enemy and not launch them. But like i said it's risky. If you are facing someone in the air, go for crossslash bcause its much safer. The delay and range of FAir is pretty terrible.

 

[Chrollolith]

I got an “update”.

After some (much of them) hours of practice, i noticed all the changes more clearly.

Definely, he is f****** funny to play with, but the nerfs feels really frustrating some times.
There te biggers and smallers so i will try to tell them in order.

For tilts, i barely noticed changes, so i don’t have anything to say about them.

Airs: NAir: Nerfed range, i researched on it for a while, watching frames and that, and it actually hits less than it shows, need to be really close to the enemy and it’s difficult to land the hit, but just compared with the smash 4 cloud. It still hitting ok, but lowered ranged, for sure. I recommend just using it for leaving the shield in a close position or a quickly response to an attack.

UpAir practically can’t hit if the enemy is on the ground. The only part that you can hit with, is with the middle of the sword, as if cloud were hitting with his body. (Sometime i hit with the peak of the sword but i really don’t understand why, so don’t trust on it)
On air it still being such a nightmare for enemies.

FAir: Same as Sm4sh. Stronger, more kill potential, but somehow i feel like it’s more difficult to land the spike on enemies.

BAir: A little less range than before. It keeps really strong, but as much cloud’s attacks, feels like you need to be closer to the opponent to hit.

DAir: Just the same. I couldn’t notice any difference, but i’m open to listen.

Special Attacks:
Up B: It’s “nerfed” in the timing. For activating the fall of the up b, you have to input more quickly, giving you less time to think if you wanna / need to do it or not.
On another hand, it feels more powerful, safer, and practical for some combos.

Neutral B: Just the same. I feel (but not really sure) that you can throw it more quickly, but it goes in a lower speed.

Side B: Pretty buffed. More damage, and much more kill potential, (i haven’t see one killing in the entire smash 4 lol)
Even it has more range, the kanji (the japanese word) appears a little more away from cloud, and even takes people a little away from the kanji, but sometimes it can let people go easily.

Down B: I just could notice about it, that it has more lag to shield. The rest, just the same, limit charging.

This is everything i already could see about Cloud’s moveset, i wish it helps you somehow, and if i am wrong with something, just say it, i’m open to hear everyone and discuss about, and really thankful to be helped by all of you.

See u.

 

[popemanz]

all I know know is when I ask anyone how to beat him they say no

 

[BigDamnHero]

Cloud is still good in doubles!

 

[Kellojolly]

Cloud was nerfed across the board. But he's still very good. Moving and distancing yourself more ferquently and well is now more important than ever. He feels like a "one of the best high-tier characters" type of character to me so far. He's VERY VERY solid. He's just not as easy to as as he was in SSB4 or as good.

 

[soobly]

Cloud is still good in doubles!

This is very true even M2K stated this, went to a local playing cloud and he just felt way nerfed and not the character from SSB4 I loved to play.

 

[popemanz]

This is very true even M2K stated this, went to a local playing cloud and he just felt way nerfed and not the character from SSB4 I loved to play.

how do you beat his neutral though I stoped playing smash 4 after dlc

 

[soobly]

how do you beat his neutral though I stoped playing smash 4 after dlc

Depends on the players play style as cloud. As somebody who used to play cloud heavily in Sm4sh I'd transfer over the same method of playing against him into SmUsh, which would be not allowing limit and as the KING using your projectile as an advantage.

 

[Dyltack13]

Cloud is still very good he just isn’t broken anymore

 

[Eggimannd]

still broken as ****

 

[soobly]

still broken as ****

lowkey though, i just feel like i can't perform well with him even though i love him

 

[OmegaXF]

Only played Sm4sh two times maximum. Cloud feels pretty fluent in Ultimate. They made his weaknesses and strengths more defined in Ultimate. I feel like everyone suffers once placed off of the stage so that's a universal issue but Cloud feels it more than others. I like approaching with RaR Nairs as the hitbox fells pretty reliable when hit from behind. I do fell like I put in quite a bit of effort when playing as Cloud, but I have tried some other swordsman (Marth, Corrin, Robin) and the work I put in w/Cloud feels far less than the above stated swordsmen. Soooo..Cloud feels fair.

 

[Cloud-Dream]

Cloud is a very fun character to play as, though requires a lot of skill to play as.

 

[MarioMeteor]

He has a few things that irritate me. First, his neutral air. The move was stupid before, I get it, but good Lord, what have they done to it? The range on it is laughable. I find it slightly unfair that Ike gets a neutral air that does his taxes and makes him a sandwich while Cloud gets this dinky little thing.

Second, why can I not see my Limit Gauge depleting? It seems like a really obvious QOL change, considering every other character with a gimmick like this has something on their HUD that tracks it.

Third, he seems to be overly reliant on back air and Limit Cross Slash to kill, neither of which are particularly strong (I’ve hit someone with LCS at 100% and still had them live). I don’t think it’s too much to ask for down smash to kill reliably like it used to.

Other than that, I find Cloud very fun to play, probably even more so than Smash 4 since I actually have to use my brain now. I just wish they would use their brains when balancing him.

 

[KavMaster]

While he was nerfed to oblivion in some aspects, he's still actually a very viable character overall. Here are just a few quick things that I have to say on him:

- Nair was an extremely annoying and broken move in Sm4sh. I have no problem with them nerfing it, but Jesus H they absolutely slaughtered the move as a whole.

- Cross Slash and Climhazzard seem a lot easier to fall out of now. Not talking about them with Limit, but the regular versions of these moves can be janky sometimes.

- Killing can feel like a chore sometimes. His 3 hit FSmash can cause havoc at ledge maybe, but it's punishable and slow. Cross-Slash Limit and B/Fair are his main kill options.

- His recovery still sucks, there's nothing much you can do horizontally to recover without a jump. Blade Beam or Cross-Slash stalls are your best bet, and even then they barely work.

Still love him tho <3

 

[Fenrir-Bolt]

I seem to enjoy playing as Cloud the most for some reason. I’ve tried and played all of the other characters (of course) and there’s something about his playing style and stats which make it just feel really comfortable and easy for me to play as him. He’s just a good combination for me I guess, for whatever reason. Otherwise, it’s hard for me to pick a favourite character, I really like Ike, Pikachu, Megaman, and Link, but I get frustrated because all the characters moves, they have weird pauses or don’t quite feel fluid enough,and it can leave the characters vulnerable. It irks me that Pikachu is not as fast.


So otherwise, I haven’t played online yet as I’m waiting until I fully complete and beat the single player game first. Thus far I did very, easy, normal and am completing hard on the spirite mode, which surprisingly I don’t find too difficult. Ive also half way unlocked all the sprites and I want to get close to a 9.9 on classic mode. I also still haven’t unlocked all the music, challenges, and Mii outfits. I have around 200 Horus logged in though it’s white startling.

I have managed to beat the lvl 9 CPU as well, but 10 is like impossible.

 

[Fenrir-Bolt]

I guess I could play online and just not choose characters I would like to main, but I still want to unlock most of everything first. All the stupid good you have to unlock to get Mii customizable parts. I wonder if anyone hardly uses spirit mode online? Because I have almost all the spirites and have managed to get many of them to 100.

Spirit mode is actually really cool, not only does classic mode grade you on your skill level, but in spirite mode many of the matches are actually trying to reach you gameplay mechanics and strategies; like this one battle with Lucas, he was blocking and evading almost all of my attacks (or housing his reflector) and I realized you just have to run and grapple him all the time, it was hilarious. I then became more aware of that aspect in the game. It also gives you lots of online game match ideas. So, I’m just really impressed and like all the different gameplay modes they included in Ultimate.


I wonder though on this topic how much maining a character has to do with your disposition, personality and temperament? I also wondering Cloud has so many vocal haters.

 

[LightKnight]

I don't play Cloud much but one of my main issues with him now is ever since Joker and Terry being introduced it seems they just totally outclass Cloud's limit.
Joker can get his 'limit' sooner and gives ALL his moves more damage and knockback. Granted, the aspect of Joker getting Arsene so quickly should probably be toned down a tad.
Terry may not get his super moves till later but they both have more damage, range, and power than limit cross-slash and limit-break combined! Not to mention they even gave the moves some super-armor...
I know both of these are new DLC characters and Cloud no longer is one himself but at this point I feel some buffs to his limit moves are warranted.

Starting with limit cross-slash, its currently comparable to Roy's side B in KO power which is kinda sad so it at the very least needs more KO power perhaps on par with Terry's 'Go' moves.
As for limit-break (down-B), I'd say it mostly just needs to be more reliable to hit with while maybe increasing its knockback just a little more sense it hardly does any damage (but can be used in the air). The idea is it would be noticeably better at KOing than limit cross-slash but still doesn't have quite the same range in exchange for simultaneously covering both sides of Cloud. Maybe it would come out just a tad faster than limit cross-slash as well?

In my mind at least, these changes shouldn't over-buff him but definitely somewhat help his issue of netting the KO at times while feeling more on par with Joker and Terry in terms of their super modes/moves. Just to be clear, its not that he's the most in need for buffs compared to other characters but that his limit currently lacks that 'cool' 'oomph' factor now with the release of Joker and Terry.