things you hate about your main

[LaneTip]

are there some major things you hate about your main?
like a ganon main probably hates his slow attacks
or how I (a bowser main) dislike his boring taunts.
I like to here what fans have to say about their favorite characters

 

[Ruben Samich]

My extremely slow smash attacks (i know you're a bowser main so you probably think i have no idea) but still. My smash attacks are so slow I don't even use them. It's all about that up/down tilt. I also hate my mediocre taunts besides my up taunt which is great for the beginning of a game as a salute. (I like respecting people in game just as much as i like disrespecting them)

but the thing i hate more than anything else about my main is the majority of people who main my main. Toon link mains can relate to this. The majority of Samus mains are annoying 9 year olds that spam on the side of the map and think Roll-roll-roll-roll-roll is a combo. (I don't do that I do real combos and rarely use charge shot)

 

[The_Bookworm]

I don't like the fact that Ness mains spam PK Fire on For Glory. It is a situation of liking to play the character, not being a fan of fighting that same character.
I also don't like the fact that people hate him for this reason.

 

[Uffe]

Ness' PK Thunder 2 wallbounce sometimes doesn't work on the left side of any stage, putting Ness into a free fall state of demise. This was known as early as the 3DS days of Sm4sh, and it was never patched. Lucas never has this problem.

Another thing about PK Thunder 2 that I hate is that while Ness is still in this animation, he can be gimped by items or a dair spike if properly done.

Last thing about Ness' PK Thunder is that he can still be gimped by having someone jump onto it. I wish Ness had the ability to throw out another PK Thunder if the previous one was stopped.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Ness' PK Thunder 2 wallbounce sometimes doesn't work on the left side of any stage, putting Ness into a free fall state of demise. This was known as early as the 3DS days of Sm4sh, and it was never patched. Lucas never has this problem.

Another thing about PK Thunder 2 that I hate is that while Ness is still in this animation, he can be gimped by items or a dair spike if properly done.

Last thing about Ness' PK Thunder is that he can still be gimped by having someone jump onto it. I wish Ness had the ability to throw out another PK Thunder if the previous one was stopped.

I never knew about the wallbounce part. Ness's PK Thunder cannot simply be jumped on, since the start of the move goes through opponents like Lucas's PK Thunder. If it is any other smash game, then yes.

 

[Uffe]

I never knew about the wallbounce part. Ness's PK Thunder cannot simply be jumped on, since the start of the move goes through opponents like Lucas's PK Thunder. If it is any other smash game, then yes.

I meant after the fact. Once it reaches around the quarter mark, it can be interrupted by simply landing on it. It's a stupid idea to do this, though, because chances are you'll get killed by PKT2 in the process. Still, there are moments where the opponent accidentally hits the head of PK Thunder and gimps Ness.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I meant after the fact. Once it reaches around the quarter mark, it can be interrupted by simply landing on it. It's a stupid idea to do this, though, because chances are you'll get killed by PKT2 in the process. Still, there are moments where the opponent accidentally hits the head of PK Thunder and gimps Ness.

Oh yeah. I hate that.

 

[J.A. Gamer]

I hate that the very instant my feet are no longer touching the ground, I have hard comitted to an option.

 

[KirinKQP]

I hate dying the that orange furry at any percent above 42 from an up-smash.

 

[Glitch_Wiz]

Any Smash attack I do can be punishable if used at the wrong time. Even after the smash attack is quite slow.

 

[Sprite]

Ness's recovery

 

[Applebutter61]

I honestly think Ness's recovery is the bane of every Ness main.

But Marth's recovery isn't exactly top tier either XD

 

[DeNikSSB]

Cloud

I hate his non-limit recovery so much

 

[Crystanium]

I hate Samus' grab. Its active hitbox as more frames than any other character with a tether grab. Its FAF is also the highest of any tether grab. Even Zero Suit Samus' FAF, with the exception of dash grab, is better. In the order of tether grabs from best to worst, it goes from Lucas, Toon Link, Link, Zero Suit Samus, and Samus. Because apparently, futuristic tech is slower than some kid throwing a snake rope and Medieval-inspired tech. Right, makes a lot of sense.

I hate Samus' projectiles. Charge Shot can be stopped by Link's and Toon Link's Bomb, but not by Samus' own Super Missile. I'm not complaining about the latter, but the former should be eaten up like the latter. Ganondorf's f-air and Diddy Kong's side special, Pac-Man's side special, and Sheik's side special render Samus' Charge Shot useless. Also, Super Missile doesn't even kill. Sure, Samus is currently low mid-tier, and that's great, but if the developers could just make Samus a tad better would be great.

I hate Samus' limited CQC options. You'd think after the release of Metroid: Other M, which was released before Super Smash Bros. for the Wii U/3DS, would have given Samus a case for dealing with fast characters who get up in your face. I'm looking at you, Fox, Sheik, and Marth. F-smash still whiffs sometimes. Perhaps that hitbox could be a little bigger. Also, short characters are completely unaffected.

 

[Applebutter61]

I hate Samus' grab. Its active hitbox as more frames than any other character with a tether grab. Its FAF is also the highest of any tether grab. Even Zero Suit Samus' FAF, with the exception of dash grab, is better. In the order of tether grabs from best to worst, it goes from Lucas, Toon Link, Link, Zero Suit Samus, and Samus. Because apparently, futuristic tech is slower than some kid throwing a snake rope and Medieval-inspired tech. Right, makes a lot of sense.

I hate Samus' projectiles. Charge Shot can be stopped by Link's and Toon Link's Bomb, but not by Samus' own Super Missile. I'm not complaining about the latter, but the former should be eaten up like the latter. Ganondorf's f-air and Diddy Kong's side special, Pac-Man's side special, and Sheik's side special render Samus' Charge Shot useless. Also, Super Missile doesn't even kill. Sure, Samus is currently low mid-tier, and that's great, but if the developers could just make Samus a tad better would be great.

I hate Samus' limited CQC options. You'd think after the release of Metroid: Other M, which was released before Super Smash Bros. for the Wii U/3DS, would have given Samus a case for dealing with fast characters who get up in your face. I'm looking at you, Fox, Sheik, and Marth. F-smash still whiffs sometimes. Perhaps that hitbox could be a little bigger. Also, short characters are completely unaffected.

What are FAF and CQC?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Ness's recovery

Be glad it is better than it's previous incarnations.

 

[Crystanium]

What are FAF and CQC?

First actionable frame and close-quarter combat. I suspect you understand the latter, but the former needs a little explaining. Most video games have a frame rate of 60 frames per second. How many seconds is in 1 frame?

(1 frame / 60 frames)*(1 second) = 0.01667 seconds, or 16.67 milliseconds

That said, I'll use Samus' jab 1 for an example. It has an active hitbox on frames 3 and 4. After frame 4, Samus has to wait for a total of 14 frames, since the first actionable frame is 18 frames. In total, Samus' jab 1 has to go through 18 frames before she can perform another attack. That's a total of 300 milliseconds, which is within the range of a human blinking an eye.

 

[Sprite]

Be glad it is better than it's previous incarnations.

Haha Ikr, it's sad that smash 4 is the best version of pk thunder 2 as a recovery

 

[Krysco]

When it comes to Sm4sh, I actually have nothing to truly hate about my 'main'. I'm not too loyal to the character since the game overall isn't too great imo but Mewtwo is a rather decently balanced character. He's incredibly fast and oozing with combos and kill power but that's all balanced by being a huge target, being the second lightest character in the game, not being able to double jump out of would be combos and having nothing on the ground or in the air that comes out faster than frame 6. The biggest gripes I can claim to have are not being able to choose when I want to raise with Confusion since it means Mewtwo can't land next to a shielding opponent with a command grab unless he already uses it and I guess the fact that you're forced to shield or airdodge if you don't want to fire Shadow Ball but even then, that's a thing unique to DK's Giant Punch anyways. Having a hitbox on Shadow Ball during the charging phase would be nice like in Melee but it might also be too much since if it acted anything like Lucario's, he'd have an answer to opponents behind him, another confirm into usmash, potentially better ledgetrapping and more shield damage potential.

Looking at other characters I use, I'm not a fan of how much Robin has going against him. Slow walk and run speed, a poor jumpsquat, high startup on aerials, moves that simply run out of uses, not the greatest range for a sword user. For Ganondorf, I wish he had a proper utilt and I wish his down special and up special had the power they did back in Melee and wish his side special couldn't be teched.

 

[The_Bookworm]

When it comes to Sm4sh, I actually have nothing to truly hate about my 'main'. I'm not too loyal to the character since the game overall isn't too great imo but Mewtwo is a rather decently balanced character. He's incredibly fast and oozing with combos and kill power but that's all balanced by being a huge target, being the second lightest character in the game, not being able to double jump out of would be combos and having nothing on the ground or in the air that comes out faster than frame 6. The biggest gripes I can claim to have are not being able to choose when I want to raise with Confusion since it means Mewtwo can't land next to a shielding opponent with a command grab unless he already uses it and I guess the fact that you're forced to shield or airdodge if you don't want to fire Shadow Ball but even then, that's a thing unique to DK's Giant Punch anyways. Having a hitbox on Shadow Ball during the charging phase would be nice like in Melee but it might also be too much since if it acted anything like Lucario's, he'd have an answer to opponents behind him, another confirm into usmash, potentially better ledgetrapping and more shield damage potential.

Looking at other characters I use, I'm not a fan of how much Robin has going against him. Slow walk and run speed, a poor jumpsquat, high startup on aerials, moves that simply run out of uses, not the greatest range for a sword user. For Ganondorf, I wish he had a proper utilt and I wish his down special and up special had the power they did back in Melee and wish his side special couldn't be teched.

Robin's aerials has decent startup... I don't know what you are talking about. His Leven Sword is a decently ranged sword, although his bronze sword is one of the shortest swords in the game (alongside Roy's and Mii Swordfighter's).

 

[Krysco]

Robin's aerials has decent startup... I don't know what you are talking about. His Leven Sword is a decently ranged sword, although his bronze sword is one of the shortest swords in the game (alongside Roy's and Mii Swordfighter's).

His fastest offensive option in the air is f8 Elwind which isn't ideal for attacking and puts him in helpless. After that, it's f9 nair and bair which is absolutely horrendous even for a sword user. Just did a quick check on Kurogane and the only character with all aerial offensive options being slower than Robin's is Shulk. Some characters like Bowser also have slow aerial options with his fastest being an f8 nair but it's still better if only by a frame. Rosalina also has slower startup on her aerials but Luma has much faster startup. The Levin Sword is decent but doesn't compare to the Falchion, Monado, Buster Sword or Ragnell. Robin can also only use the longer ranged Levin Sword with his slow aerials and laggy smash attacks.

 

[Uffe]

I honestly think Ness's recovery is the bane of every Ness main.

But Marth's recovery isn't exactly top tier either XD

You Marth's make my boy cry when he's trying to recover. Keep your counters to yourself.

 

[The_Bookworm]

You Marth's make my boy cry when he's trying to recover. Keep your counters to yourself.

It is actually tricky for Marth to counter Ness's recovery, especially on certain angles. Corrin's counter however....

Yeah, be glad that his counter was nerfed, but against a powerful move like PKT2....

 

[Nonno Umby]

I hate that they were cut

I can't stand his pitiful recovery options. Sometimes he can even be worse than

Give him 6 Pikmins again.

And talking about other characters that I use often

I hate that her default specials are the most boring and useless ones, especially when she has some great ones as customs.

Their Final Smash is pitiful.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I agree with Palutena. Just give me Super Speed, Jump Glide, and Heavenly Light.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Low%s with Doc can get pretty painful at times, the character has quite a high amount of moves that will be unsafe on hit for the first 20% or so, which is really unfortunate when you think of the great position a lot of these same moves throw the opponent at, moreso at these %s. This also leads into the relative frame tightness of some combos, its very easy to mess up some of Doc's B&Bs, as on top of the varying heights having to be taken into consideration in function of the DI of your opponent, you have to nail the following RAR & SH FF Autocancel almost perfectly if you want something that's true.

Get it wrong & you could be left with nothing at best, or a combo starter for your opponent at worst (Curse you, landing Cloud UpAir)

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I hate the fact that one missed input means I SD. On top of that most characters can effortlessly shield all of my moves and only Luigi has worse traction than myself. It's infuriating.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I hate that they were cut

I can't stand his pitiful recovery options. Sometimes he can even be worse than

Give him 6 Pikmins again.

And talking about other characters that I use often

I hate that her default specials are the most boring and useless ones, especially when she has some great ones as customs.

Their Final Smash is pitiful.

Almost no one wants six pikmin back (Olimar was one of the most hated characters in Brawl because of that).
Little Mac has been higher ranked than Dr. Mario ever since the first tier list by a noticible gap.
Rosalina's and ROB's are only useless on larger stages. If you want to talk about useless final smashes, talk to DK's and Dedede's final smash (Sakurai's patches made it so that you can escape Dedede's final smash even when you get hit by the first part).
One: Warp is a pretty decent move, and better than Jump Glide on some areas (such as not suffering from Wings of Icarus's flaw). Her other default moves are terrible though (and the sad part is that her other nuetral special variations are even worse).

I agree with Palutena. Just give me Super Speed, Jump Glide, and Heavenly Light.

Two: Heavenly Light is virtually useless in singles, but very useful if you have a partner in doubles that has an absorption based move.

 

[Uffe]

It is actually tricky for Marth to counter Ness's recovery, especially on certain angles. Corrin's counter however....

Yeah, be glad that his counter was nerfed, but against a powerful move like PKT2....

I just hate counter in general. It's not high risk, high reward. I feel like something that can counter a strong attack should require a lot of risk. At certain angles, Ness can avoid being countered, but for the most part, that isn't the case. I guess I should lab that. There are I believe 12 characters in this game who have it. I think that's pretty unnecessary. I'd say only Marth should have it because he was the first to do it, and Little Mac, because he's a boxer, and that's something boxers do, I guess. I'd even say maybe Shulk, because of his Vision, probably being something out of his Xenoblade game. I understand that counter is probably a common thing in the Fire Emblem series, but all the sword characters from that series don't need one (I'm excluding Robin, because of obvious reasons). I'd even consider letting Toon Link have a counter because of his parry in The Wind Waker, and even Samus, because of what she was capable of doing in Other M, as well as Samus Returns.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Negative hitboxes and exploitable blindspots. His tips also trade with too many feet based attacks like Ryu's B-air and Diddy's F-air. His D-air also sucks so many kinds of donkey balls. Dash Attack and D-smash are worthless.

 

[-Cr0w-]

/ - I wish he was a bit more balanced so that way I don't gotta deal with people insulting me for using him. I also wish he wasn't straight combo food cuz misspacing one aerial on shield and taking like 50% off of a combo is never fun for anybody but ig it's whatever really. A character has to have weaknesses lol.

- Oh man... Marth is my boi in every Smash Bros. he's in, but I could talk about this all day. Coming from Melee/PM Marth to this was, and still is at times, really frustrating. Idk if his range is shorter than in Brawl, but it feels like it is so every so often I'll completely miss a tipper F-smash that I thought was gonna hit. D-air is straight trash compared to its previous incarnations. I was actually in disbelief when I first saw it lmao. Also, SH double F-air will always be missed.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Almost no one wants six pikmin back (Olimar was one of the most hated characters in Brawl because of that).
Little Mac has been higher ranked than Dr. Mario ever since the first tier list by a noticible gap.
Rosalina's and ROB's are only useless on larger stages. If you want to talk about useless final smashes, talk to DK's and Dedede's final smash (Sakurai's patches made it so that you can escape Dedede's final smash even when you get hit by the first part).
One: Warp is a pretty decent move, and better than Jump Glide on some areas (such as not suffering from Wings of Icarus's flaw). Her other default moves are terrible though (and the sad part is that her other nuetral special variations are even worse).

Two: Heavenly Light is virtually useless in singles, but very useful if you have a partner in doubles that has an absorption based move.

I don't care about what others hated back in Brawl, I loved having six Pikmins in Brawl. And I don't see where is the problem with giving them back to Olimar. I mean he wasn't as broken as either Meta Knight or Ice Climbers.

Of course Little Mac has been ranked higher than Doc, but I was talking about recovery, which is something that was purposefully made pitiful for Mac in order to balance his strong moveset on the ground. Doc sometimes can have an even worse time at recovering, but has no particular buff on the ground, which is unfair (His Cape doesn't even stop him mid-air, for crying out loud!)

Rosalina and Rob's Final Smash are useless in almost every stage that isn't Battlefield or Final Destination, because it can easily be avoided by just staying away from them.
And since this thread is about your mains, and I don't main, or even play that often with DK or Dedede, I didn't mentioned them.

Warp is a good recovery, but it is boring. And having another Counter user when we have other cool moves like Celestial Firework or Light Weight is maddening to me.

 

[Krysco]

I just hate counter in general. It's not high risk, high reward. I feel like something that can counter a strong attack should require a lot of risk. At certain angles, Ness can avoid being countered, but for the most part, that isn't the case. I guess I should lab that. There are I believe 12 characters in this game who have it. I think that's pretty unnecessary. I'd say only Marth should have it because he was the first to do it, and Little Mac, because he's a boxer, and that's something boxers do, I guess. I'd even say maybe Shulk, because of his Vision, probably being something out of his Xenoblade game. I understand that counter is probably a common thing in the Fire Emblem series, but all the sword characters from that series don't need one (I'm excluding Robin, because of obvious reasons). I'd even consider letting Toon Link have a counter because of his parry in The Wind Waker, and even Samus, because of what she was capable of doing in Other M, as well as Samus Returns.

There's actually 13 characters with counters:
Bit of a nitpick but technically Peach was the first character to have a counter since both Marth and Roy had to be unlocked in Melee.

As for counters in Fire Emblem, there is a skill called Counter that characters can be equipped with but it doesn't appear in Marth's game, not sure about Roy's and it does appear in both of Ike's games along with Awakening. That being said, countering in Smash is based on battles in general in FE where if a unit initiates battle, if their opponent survives, that unit automatically attacks back if they can. Shulk's Vision is indeed based off an ability his Monado grants him in Xenoblade.

And counters are able to be high risk moves, especially against smash attacks since they can be charged and therefore you can change the timing of when you release it. Against recoveries, they're a bit less risky since if the recovering opponent waits too long, they simply can't get back.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I don't care about what others hated back in Brawl, I loved having six Pikmins in Brawl. And I don't see where is the problem with giving them back to Olimar. I mean he wasn't as broken as either Meta Knight or Ice Climbers.

Of course Little Mac has been ranked higher than Doc, but I was talking about recovery, which is something that was purposefully made pitiful for Mac in order to balance his strong moveset on the ground. Doc sometimes can have an even worse time at recovering, but has no particular buff on the ground, which is unfair (His Cape doesn't even stop him mid-air, for crying out loud!)

Rosalina and Rob's Final Smash are useless in almost every stage that isn't Battlefield or Final Destination, because it can easily be avoided by just staying away from them.
And since this thread is about your mains, and I don't main, or even play that often with DK or Dedede, I didn't mentioned them.

Warp is a good recovery, but it is boring. And having another Counter user when we have other cool moves like Celestial Firework or Light Weight is maddening to me.

Thanks for clearing that up.

/ - I wish he was a bit more balanced so that way I don't gotta deal with people insulting me for using him. I also wish he wasn't straight combo food cuz misspacing one aerial on shield and taking like 50% off of a combo is never fun for anybody but ig it's whatever really. A character has to have weaknesses lol.

- Oh man... Marth is my boi in every Smash Bros. he's in, but I could talk about this all day. Coming from Melee/PM Marth to this was, and still is at times, really frustrating. Idk if his range is shorter than in Brawl, but it feels like it is so every so often I'll completely miss a tipper F-smash that I thought was gonna hit. D-air is straight trash compared to its previous incarnations and its spike hitbox only lasts for one frame. I was actually in disbelief when I first saw it lmao. Also, SH double F-air will always be missed.

I don't want to sound nitpicky, but technically Marth's range was buffed from Melee and Brawl, but it is less in relative to the case due to the drastic range buffs given to other characters like Mario. But yeah, I feel your pain. His new D-air isn't that bad of a move, but it significantly inferior to the previous D-air.

 

[MercuryPenny]

brb letting my opponent live to 150% because they keep blocking and punishing my only kill options

also brb getting punished for using my main spacing tools at all

also also brb losing matchups literally only because my opponent has a sword

 

[Uffe]

There's actually 13 characters with counters:
Bit of a nitpick but technically Peach was the first character to have a counter since both Marth and Roy had to be unlocked in Melee.

As for counters in Fire Emblem, there is a skill called Counter that characters can be equipped with but it doesn't appear in Marth's game, not sure about Roy's and it does appear in both of Ike's games along with Awakening. That being said, countering in Smash is based on battles in general in FE where if a unit initiates battle, if their opponent survives, that unit automatically attacks back if they can. Shulk's Vision is indeed based off an ability his Monado grants him in Xenoblade.

And counters are able to be high risk moves, especially against smash attacks since they can be charged and therefore you can change the timing of when you release it. Against recoveries, they're a bit less risky since if the recovering opponent waits too long, they simply can't get back.

I never considered Peach. I guess because all other characters have themselves covered from all sides with their counters, unless Peach is now capable of doing that as well with Toad, rather than it just covering her from the front. I know that counter is based off from Fire Emblem, and that's their reason. I just think they could have been more creative in that aspect.

 

[MacSmitty]

I hate his recovery, mostly due to the "headbonk" on certain stages, and the absurd amount of landing lag afterwards. The Force Palm Grab hitbox, his jab being very slow, and his weak neutral game.
His grab, The Fire Hydrant's "health" in regards to Pac sending it on his own. Remember where it would take a simple B-Air to send it flying. Trampoline not sending characters at the jump height corresponding with the Trampoline color.

/How opponents can fall out of their Up and Forward Smashes. How Guardian Orbitars takes awhile to pop up, and can be broken. Also, a pit of nitpick but how Pit doesn't say "Upperdash!" For his side B like his Japanese counterpart and Dark Pit does. And how Upperdash doesn't have more kill power/ a lot of lag for the aerial version.

How come the non-tippers do bad damage and knockback compared to Marth's non-tippers.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I'd argue that Shulk's counter could be more creative. It already ignores shields plus he has two variants with long range and varying damage and knockback angles. Add in the the Vision tech that the Shulk community found and he has even more options.

Yet, I still want more.

Spoiler: About Bayonetta and Xenoblade's "counters" (mostly Xenoblade)

I see Shulk's counter in a similar vein to Bayonetta's. They both give you a-lot of time to think about your actions before you do them in their source games. Moreso Bayonetta's as you can activate her's at will and it only fails to activate during certain phases or attacks in boss battles or has a heavily diminished effect like lasting for a split-second.

Shulk's on the other hand, activates whenever an enemy decides to use a powerful move that will either deal huge damage, a status effect, or kill an ally. The latter can activate even with normal attacks if an ally's hp is low enough.

Throughout all of this you only get a 5-15 seconds timer before said attack is used. During the timer you can attack as usual (no slowdown) in hopes to change the ally that the enemy attacks, use a skill to nullify or lower the damage received, heal your ally, kill the enemy if fast enough or coordinate moves with your allies to to topple or stun the enemy (actually two different types of stuns in this game) which cancels their attack altogether.

You have multiple ways to perform the latter. When the vision activates, a button prompt comes up whenever you go near your allies to "warn them". This gives you control of the ally for one command while also stopping time. You can only use this once.

The last thing you can do is a chain attack which also stops time. You need a full party gauge (3 huge blocks that take a while to fill up) and your party has to encase the enemy in a triangle that links your party together. Once the requirements are met, you take control of the party members you do not control and are able to issue them one command each before getting to the character that you control. I'm going to leave out a lot of intricate details but if special conditions are met you can extend the chain attack past the minimum 3 attack limit.

Actually no; the intricate details are just that depending on what type of attack you decide for your party to use, you can stack that color effect. Once the final blow is dealt all of the color damage is multiplied by how many times you used daid1 color in the chain attack. And using any other colors (minus the one move in the game that is colorless so it can stack with everything) changes the color of the stack while removing all of said color's stacks.

As for Olimar, I dropped him in Smash 4 due to the lack of 6 Pikmin along with the absence of the multi-hit up air of the Yellow Pikmin.

In fact, I dropped a ton of Brawl characters due to their changes to Smash 4. Fox was because of f-air (I did not like that it allowed him to hover in place of used used while rising). Zero Suit Samus was because of her new up-Special (Boost Kick) and her new f-smash. Pit was because of his new up-special (Power of Flight) and Upperdash Arm.

A.k.a Smash's 3rd Raptor Boost in the series. 4th if you count Dark Pit. I was really digusted by this move. The only thing I like about it is that it can set-up for Palutena Bow barrages from below. I also miss the old pathing ability with Palutena's Bow. It got neutered in Smash 4. We used to be able to make full circles with ease. Now the only way to reproduce my Brawl memories is to use Guiding Bow which gives him smaller arrows along with damage in exchange for better handling on the arrows. I loved me some Pit on Smash 4's release, he was my go to For Glory character, almost became my main to due to my love of him in Brawl.

Funny how we are on the topic of Pit in the CCI thread right now.

Edit: As for stuff I do not like about Lucas, I cannot think of anything right now. Oh wait, his n-air. Not really hate, it's just that I rarely use it in bracket since I play assuming everyone knows how to SDI it.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I'd argue that Shulk's counter could be more creative. It already ignores shields plus he has two variants with long range and varying damage and knockback angles. Add in the the Vision tech that the Shulk community found and he has even more options.

Yet, I still want more.

Spoiler: About Bayonetta and Xenoblade's "counters" (mostly Xenoblade)

I see Shulk's counter in a similar vein to Bayonetta's. They both give you a-lot of time to think about your actions before you do them in their source games. Moreso Bayonetta's as you can activate her's at will and it only fails to activate during certain phases or attacks in boss battles or has a heavily diminished effect like lasting for a split-second.

Shulk's on the other hand, activates whenever an enemy decides to use a powerful move that will either deal huge damage, a status effect, or kill an ally. The latter can activate even with normal attacks if an ally's hp is low enough.

Throughout all of this you only get a 5-15 seconds timer before said attack is used. During the timer you can attack as usual (no slowdown) in hopes to change the ally that the enemy attacks, use a skill to nullify or lower the damage received, heal your ally, kill the enemy if fast enough or coordinate moves with your allies to to topple or stun the enemy (actually two different types of stuns in this game) which cancels their attack altogether.

You have multiple ways to perform the latter. When the vision activates, a button prompt comes up whenever you go near your allies to "warn them". This gives you control of the ally for one command while also stopping time. You can only use this once.

The last thing you can do is a chain attack which also stops time. You need a full party gauge (3 huge blocks that take a while to fill up) and your party has to encase the enemy in a triangle that links your party together. Once the requirements are met, you take control of the party members you do not control and are able to issue them one command each before getting to the character that you control. I'm going to leave out a lot of intricate details but if special conditions are met you can extend the chain attack past the minimum 3 attack limit.

Actually no; the intricate details are just that depending on what type of attack you decide for your party to use, you can stack that color effect. Once the final blow is dealt all of the color damage is multiplied by how many times you used daid1 color in the chain attack. And using any other colors (minus the one move in the game that is colorless so it can stack with everything) changes the color of the stack while removing all of said color's stacks.

As for Olimar, I dropped him in Smash 4 due to the lack of 6 Pikmin along with the absence of the multi-hit up air of the Yellow Pikmin.

In fact, I dropped a ton of Brawl characters due to their changes to Smash 4. Fox was because of f-air (I did not like that it allowed him to hover in place of used used while rising). Zero Suit Samus was because of her new up-Special (Boost Kick) and her new f-smash. Pit was because of his new up-special (Power of Flight) and Upperdash Arm.

A.k.a Smash's 3rd Raptor Boost in the series. 4th if you count Dark Pit. I was really digusted by this move. The only thing I like about it is that it can set-up for Palutena Bow barrages from below. I also miss the old pathing ability with Palutena's Bow. It got neutered in Smash 4. We used to be able to make full circles with ease. Now the only way to reproduce my Brawl memories is to use Guiding Bow which gives him smaller arrows along with damage in exchange for better handling on the arrows. I loved me some Pit on Smash 4's release, he was my go to For Glory character, almost became my main to due to my love of him in Brawl.

Funny how were are on the topic of Pit in the CCI thread right now.

I still main Pit in Brawl. I do play SSB4 Pit as a large of my large character roster though.

 

[Krysco]

Looking at characters I used from previous games, I dropped Pikachu who was my secondary in Brawl since he no longer has chaingrabs for easy damage racking, recoveries are too good for his edgeguarding to be noteworthy and his Quick Attack Cancel was nerfed too. I still use Falco who I also use in Melee but I may as well say I hate everything about that character in Sm4sh. I like Link in 64 and Melee and don't like his Brawl or Sm4sh incarnations due to the gale boomerang.