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Things you dislike about Ultimate

Mr.Dale

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
16
Alright to preface this I love playing ultimate and it's a great game but nothing is perfect so.
What do you guys miss from older games/not like about ultimate.

Personally I miss the end lag on neutral airdodge from 4 , Like being able to dash>SH>airdodge>aerial>

Add more end lag on some moves so you can't hit shield then immediately spam spotdodge.

Overall smash 4 was worse but I cant help but miss some of the character designs. For example IKE had a bunch of cool little tricks in 4 that ultimate removed. He's better now but not as dynamic as a character. TOO SIMPLE I miss his pivot grab


I miss being able cancel jabs so like Jab1> ?? mixup. That was a fun mechanic that's not in ultimate. Like with Falco in 4 you could jab then grab or shield or dtilt depending on what you expect the other guy to do.

I don't like how you can get away with mindlessly landing with aerials on shield. Now it seems like anyone can just land with an aerial and immediately spam spot dodge. I feel like this removes an aspect of the game where you would jump in on someone and have to guess whether they were going to empty land>grab or throw out an aerial. But now it's just **** it hit your shield for free. Just mashing.

I also miss running through people and pivot grabbing with ike it was swaggy


REST IN PIECE SWEET PRInCE
 
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SuperSceptile15

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
1,302
Location
Fortree City, Hoenn
I miss Smash Run, and I wish they brought back Event Matches. World of Light was meh. The Subspace Emissary was better. I find some of the roster picks to be disappointing, but that's just my opinion.
 

FatFry

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
8
In the reveal for Simon/Richter, there was gameplay of them fighting Dracula. I wish they actually had him in the roster!

Why are there so many Fire Emblem characters? It seems that for a series that I never really knew about until I played Smash, they have a pretty large amount of characters, and have been in the games before characters like Mega Man and the Belmonts, which could almost be called Nintendo icons. Doesn't really bother me but it is weird.

I hate the idea of DLC characters. I don't want to pay more money on top of a $60 game to have a complete roster.
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,441
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
-Classic Mode's difficulty raise isn't a bad idea, but the execution makes me wanna jump off a cliff.

-I'm glad bosses are back, but six besides Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Galeem and Dharkon seems like too little. At least one more wouldn't hurt.

-The AI is still the same BS it was in Smash 4.

-As much as I liked World of Light, I could do without it if it means freeing up space for Target Test, Boss Battles, maybe a couple more fighters (I'd keep Spirits, though).

-And speaking of fighters, I think some of the Echoes should've used their custom moves from Smash 4, so they're not just glorified skins.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
The "free the spirit" thing with the Spirit Board. It is just...unnecessary. This is why I never touched Spirit Board.

I am also surprised no one brought up the online mode yet. There has be something y'all do not like about that.

Sayonara :kirby:
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,621
Really, no trophies. Trophies may have became niche but their still a staple of Smash tho. I dislike the auto difficulty.
 

Wrathful_Scythe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
253
Location
Germany
For me its just the online. Bad netcode and the console not coming with a ethernet port don't make for a good online experience. Even if I have an ethernet adapter, it doesn't matter if the other player is playing on wi-fi. Sadly, not much that can be done about this with the hardware limitations.

Additionally to that, throwing everyone into one playlist was a bad move. You can do that with dwindling playernumbers at the end of the games lifespan but not at the release of a system seller. Even 1 out of 10 matches where I get thrown into a FFA is 1 time to much. Thankfully arenas alleviate this problem.
 

Mr.Dale

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
16
For me its just the online. Bad netcode and the console not coming with a ethernet port don't make for a good online experience. Even if I have an ethernet adapter, it doesn't matter if the other player is playing on wi-fi. Sadly, not much that can be done about this with the hardware limitations.

Additionally to that, throwing everyone into one playlist was a bad move. You can do that with dwindling playernumbers at the end of the games lifespan but not at the release of a system seller. Even 1 out of 10 matches where I get thrown into a FFA is 1 time to much. Thankfully arenas alleviate this problem.
I think the online is fine way better than 4's. I haven't gotten into an ffa since maybe the first month of the game coming out. Maybe you just need a higher gsp
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,162
Lack of new stages is my biggest disappointment. I understand time and resources went largely to the old ones, especially the Melee ones which essentially had to be rebuilt from scratch, but there were still a few obvious choices for stages that were overlooked, like Tropical Freeze, Rhythm Heaven, Pokemon SM, Samus Returns, Kirby Robobot, and 3D World. Similarly, the choices for some stages to come back (Pac-Land), and some to not come back (Pac-Maze) can be a headscratcher.

I think World Of Light needed more cutscenes, even if they were just static text interactions like the shopkeeper NPCs. Just to make the world and story feel a little more alive and lived in. It also is a bit bloated and sags in the middle.

Hero's menu is incredibly unwieldy and makes the character borderline unplayable for me. (Also, no female alts? Seriously? Major ball drop.)

Some song exclusions are baffling, like Life Will Change and the Gruntilda Battle Theme.

Spirits should have at least a one or two line description.

Boss battle mode is such an obvious inclusion I'm dumbfounded it hasn't happened as DLC.

I think that's it. This is the best newcomer roster the series has ever had, so I can't complain about that too much. I prefer Spirits to trophies pretty massively since Spirits allow you to have deeper cuts and are actually integrated into the gameplay. I think World Of Light, although not perfect, is the best single player mode the series has ever had. And the gameplay's very solid, with the best balanced roster despite it being the biggest.
 
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Wrathful_Scythe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
253
Location
Germany
I think the online is fine way better than 4's. I haven't gotten into an ffa since maybe the first month of the game coming out. Maybe you just need a higher gsp
If the online is way better than 4's then I don't even want to experience that unplayable catastrophe. My last smash was Melee so I don't know how past entries were.

Yes, maybe my rank is not high enough but is that really a valid argument? You are bad so you have to play modes you dont't want to play. Either git gud or live with it. Thats just awful design. Given, I haven't played smash online for a while due to above mentioned reasons (and also because I live at a place without stable internet currently). If it got better than I have to take my argument back. My GSP was around 3 million in april or may I believe, which would lead me to my next thing I dislike: the ranking is also pretty bad. I don't know if 3 million was good or bad at the time I played without doing some research.
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,303
Some inconsistent mechanics bother me quite a bit. They went to the trouble of showing how people can't dash through each other anymore and attacks that used to pass through shields like Fox Illusion would now stop on block, making them less safe to throw out... but left a slew of such moves on characters anyway seemingly arbitrarily. Some attacks pass through shields, some never do it, some do it at specific distances but not others, it boggles the mind trying to keep track of all of these.
 

volbound1700

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
4,443
Location
SE USA
World of Light, the Fighter Pass 5 minus Banjo and Hero (based on the deconfirmations, I already think FP5 is going to stink), Grinch Leak not being true.

Overall Game is great but there are some minor areas that can be improved.
 

Bobert

"...And His Music Was Electric"
Joined
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Messages
568
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I hate how the colors take like 15 seconds to load in.

I also don't like that some characters are just not allowed to snap to ledge at a certain distance, or not at all. Cloud and Terry should at least be allowed to snap to the ledge. There are characters that are better than them that practically get to recover for free.
 
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link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
-online.

Smash4's was better for a few reasons. Most obvious was it was free. Second was you could change your character after every match in it's random online. You also had two distinct modes for random, for glory and for fun. It ensured I'd NEVER run into item players at all whereas in ultimate I occasionally do(more common when I use my characters who aren't as high with their GSP) In game taunts were allowed, which cut down a lot from people teabagging(i'd rather see character taunts than teabagging, character taunts have never been toxic or disrespectful, teabagging from it's very beginning has always been a purely disrespectful thing in gaming. It's the very definition of poor sportsmanship in gaming, it has no other meaning than that.). Reporting players actually had an effect(not *always* a good thing, as you could get sent to banland just for losing to someone, but at least it did *SOMETHING* to punish players who acted toxic online. I just wish you could have reported em in a way like ultimate, since many players would trash talk after a match and then bail out before the next to prevent getting reported....) Whereas in ultimate I'm fully convinced the report feature is just a placebo, and the only thing that has any effect is if you disconnect mid-match.

lag and connection issues overall are virtually the same between the two, so given all the above, most notably 4 being free, I'd much rather have its online. When you start paying for a service you expect it to be at least somewhat better than what you had in the past. With nintendo forcing us to pay for online play now, it's absolutely unacceptable that it's overall worse than what the wii u had(not just for smash but in general).

-Lack of break the targets and board the platforms(AGAIN!) I wish they'd bring back board the platforms so damn bad. It's only appearance was smash64, yet it was just as fun as break the targets IMO. Now we don't have either and we almost didn't get homerun contest back.

-the fact that it doesn't save which character costume you prefer online. although wii u didn't do this either, at least smash3ds did. I hate how I constantly have to choose my favorite character skins each time I play online now. Moreso now in fact due to it taking so long for the skins to load.

-speedy characters no longer being able to run through anyone. Pivot grabs with sonic and c.falcon(and raptor boost mixup) in 4 were amazing. Granted these characters and other speedy ones got some massive buffs that sometimes make up for it, but It'd be so much better if these characters at the very least could still blaze past opponents instead of just pushing em.

those are the things off the top of my head....
 
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CrusherMania1592

Deaf Smasher
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
6,252
3DS FC
5472-7454-3545
- Lack of Crash Bandicoot
- no board the platform (AGAIN) and target test
- story mode being a bit lacking. Wasn't really interested in the Ultimate story because I like how Brawl made characters interact with each other
- lack of Crash Bandicoot
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,578
At this point it's mostly nitpicky if anything.

Mainly how some stages aren't correctly labeled. For example the temple stage should be labeled as coming from "Zelda 2 the adventure of Link" instead of the generic "Legend of Zelda" and figured 8 circuit should be labeled "Mario kart DS" instead of just "Mario kart"
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
Location
Ravnica
A lot of things, primarily Nintendo's refusal to dip their feet into esports and how crappy the online is.
 

Oz o:

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
214
I miss punishing like a normal ****ing person without it having to be an Einstein project. Oh, so this guy is airdodging you read it? The game doesn't give a ****. They can just land automatically do something.
 

Ben Holt

Smash Master
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The Moon
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The removal of Custom Moves.
Hell, I created a thread with the idea of EXPANDING them.
Check my signature for that.
 

SilverSoul24

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
332
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St. Louis, MO
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SilverSoul94
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- Online is actually worse than Smash 4's, for reasons I'm sure you already know. My main beefs with it are that GSP is a pretty terrible system and that the speed and connectivity of the service are just as unreliable as you'd expect from a Nintendo game. But now we're paying for it. Honestly, I think it's pretty inexcusable that Nintendo still hasn't fully embraced online gaming in 2019 but that's just something you have to deal with being a fan of them.

- World of Light isn't as good as it could have been. Some additional cutscenes would have really helped it feel like a true adventure, rather than just a series of glorified event matches with a CG opening and ending. The ending sequence is pretty incredible though, and almost makes the process of slogging through it worthwhile. Being able to legitimately play as Master Hand and take my frustrations out on the entire cast was one of the most cathartic experiences I've ever had with a video game. That being said, if they had kept Spirit Battles exclusive to the Spirit Board, and given us other single-player content in place of World of Light (like Smash Run, Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, Master/Crazy Orders, Boss Rush, and a true All-Star Mode) I wouldn't have missed it.

- Speaking of Spirits, I feel like they're ultimately inferior to Trophies. I completely understand why Trophies were cut, and if it means we got as many Fighters and Stages as we did, good riddance. But Spirits just aren't as cool. While I do like that they dynamically affect the core gameplay, and just how creative some of the Spirit Battle scenarios are, I'm baffled at how they lack any flavor text to give context for their presence in the game. I spent countless hours reading the Trophy descriptions in previous games, always learning about some obscure character from a game I'd never heard of. Not so with Spirits. They should have at least given a brief bio to the Fighters' Spirits since they serve no other purpose.

- As impressive as the Stage selection is, I would have loved to see some additional new ones. I'm still very surprised that we didn't get one from Pokemon Sun/Moon, considering the Mario and Zelda universes got new Stages. As for the returning stages, some omissions are baffling. No Melee Mute City or 3DS Pac Maze? Why?

- There's a pretty uneven distribution of love concerning the soundtrack. I was hoping to see more than a mere handful of songs from Sonic Mania and Xenoblade 2, two of the strongest soundtracks from the past decade. Also, why couldn't we have had more songs from Persona 5 and Banjo-Kazooie? Ultimate's soundtrack is still incredible, and I feel like I'm nitpicking at this point, but I want what I want, you know?

- They butchered Toon Link's Fsmash. Yes, I'm still salty.
 
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Michael the Spikester

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
29,094
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Canada
Switch FC
SW-0818-8347-0203
Just the lack of less modes though its understandable like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, All-Star Mode, Boss Rush, etc.. Don't know what's stopping constant updates to adding more granted they take lot of time and work.
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
Administrator
BRoomer
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Messages
46,176
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Steam
I hate the idea of DLC characters. I don't want to pay more money on top of a $60 game to have a complete roster.
I see your point, but this is likely to be the only Smash game that will have a 'complete' roster.
 

stixie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
176
Location
philbusiness52@gmail.com
Some inconsistent mechanics bother me quite a bit. They went to the trouble of showing how people can't dash through each other anymore and attacks that used to pass through shields like Fox Illusion would now stop on block, making them less safe to throw out... but left a slew of such moves on characters anyway seemingly arbitrarily. Some attacks pass through shields, some never do it, some do it at specific distances but not others, it boggles the mind trying to keep track of all of these.
This is SO TRUE!! It's actually irritating to me. I'm like "why the actual heck did that just cross me up" and then a different move doesn't (or the exact SAME move doesn't the next time). It's really quite dumb.







My MAIN MAIN beef with this game is online though. Online play is a GIANT steaming hot juicy dumpster fire. It's LITERALLY the WORST BY FAR online gaming experience I've EVER had with ANY console or game company in my entire 33 years of life.

It's not just the bad netcode or no ethernet port (which are both atrocious) it's literally the entire package.

No standard ruleset for competitive players.

STILL no true tournament mode with best out of matches.

Lag... oh my goodness................. laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.

Bans for quitting laggy matches.

Bans for quitting against janky rulesets at 5+ million gsp.

GSP.

No leaderboard.

Falling out of elite smash after one game (should have a "season" where if you make it in you're in until the end of the month).

The implementation of arenas (only one match at a time while everyone else sits there for 10 minutes).

WiFi players.


This online rant was all off the top of my head and I could probably come up with more if I really gave it some thought.
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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Mar 24, 2013
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I hate the idea of DLC characters. I don't want to pay more money on top of a $60 game to have a complete roster.
Game development is costly and developers have to compensated for their post development work. Just imagine working one month for free or telling the baker that you shouldn't be paying for their bread because you bought a loaf last week already.

The game's roster is complete from the beginning with DLC being extra add ons. And it's only 5.99 dollars a piece which are released over the span of a year. No way no one can afford that.
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,441
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Game development is costly and developers have to compensated for their post development work. Just imagine working one month for free or telling the baker that you shouldn't be paying for their bread because you bought a loaf last week already.

The game's roster is complete from the beginning with DLC being extra add ons. And it's only 5.99 dollars a piece which are released over the span of a year. No way no one can afford that.
And the Pass alone is only $25, which is cheaper than all the packs combined.

Anyways, back on topic: I’m also baffled not only by our default costume being reverted back to after a match, but taking its sweet time loading.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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I guess the biggest issue to me is the lack of Fire Mario. I absolutely love his new alts, but Fire Mario is a mainstay for me.

I kinda hope they start selling alts as paid DLC.
 

FatFry

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
8
And the Pass alone is only $25, which is cheaper than all the packs combined.

Anyways, back on topic: I’m also baffled not only by our default costume being reverted back to after a match, but taking its sweet time loading.
So you think it's okay that we have to spend $60 for a game, and then another $25 to have all of the characters? I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree, I personally think that's ridiculous. No fighting game should cost $85 for a complete roster.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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So you think it's okay that we have to spend $60 for a game, and then another $25 to have all of the characters? I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree, I personally think that's ridiculous. No fighting game should cost $85 for a complete roster.
YMMV, but adding five more characters to a game that has over 70 is arguably a sweet deal.

Also, you are completely ignoring the circular flow of income with that response. If you bought Ultimate in December 2018, you paid 60 dollars for it. The first fighter from the pass, Joker, became available on April 17th of this year, four months after the release of the game. By that time, you already made back the 60 dollars you spent on the game and if you decide that you want him you can afford the 5.99 dollars to download him. The next DLC fighter, Hero, dropped on July 30th, more than three months after Joker and the same principle applies for him and the rest of the DLC. The reason why DLC fighters are scattered like that (besides the fact that they are being worked on) is so that their sales don't cannibalize each other; most consumers will be able to afford paying 5.99 every 2 or 3 months instead of making a bigger expense. Obviously, you can drop $25 immediately to get all the characters once they release if you feel you will like them but that is up to personal criteria.

This is a similar reason to why it's wise to carefully choose a release date for a movie or game. Releasing your movie close to the debut of some big blockbuster like Avengers is going to hurt it, because consumers will be presented with a choice on which movie they want to spend their hard earned money on and they will likely choose Avengers most of the time.

So yeah, I think it's fair to compensate developers for working on extra characters because nobody should be working for free. And it's just 5.99 per character anyways. Why do you think that you shouldn't be paying for goods and services?
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
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Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,441
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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
So you think it's okay that we have to spend $60 for a game, and then another $25 to have all of the characters? I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree, I personally think that's ridiculous. No fighting game should cost $85 for a complete roster.
Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite had it even worse with DLC. It had a $30 character pack for characters who were already on the disc (half of them, anyways) and another $30 for costume packs. Add that up and you get a DLC the same price as base Ultimate for a $40-$50 game with only 36 characters against Ultimate’s current 81 character lineup. Infinite costs over $100 with less characters with DLC than base Marvel vs. Capcom 3, while Ultimate only costs $15 less and has way more characters than MvCI without DLC.
 

Ice-N-Space

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
94
I consider Smash 4 to be the best Smash game. I miss how I could play custom stages in special smash with my camera being able to zoom in which is much better then ultimate's camera but what I really don't like is how poorly animated Peach is in Ultimate both Brawl and Smash 4 did animation so much better and I will never understand why Sakurai copy pasted a toad to Peach's grabs removing two of them as well.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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I consider Smash 4 to be the best Smash game. I miss how I could play custom stages in special smash with my camera being able to zoom in which is much better then ultimate's camera but what I really don't like is how poorly animated Peach is in Ultimate both Brawl and Smash 4 did animation so much better and I will never understand why Sakurai copy pasted a toad to Peach's grabs removing two of them as well.
Increased end lag on moves doesn't mean that they are "better animated", they just take longer to complete and are more punishable.
 

channel_KYX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
195
Online, because:
Quick match is a joke.
GSP is meaningless.
Arenas are way too tedious for continuous pay.

No flavour text for spirits.

Alt colors take an eternity to load. By now, I memorised how often I have to hit R for my favourite character's color to appear.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
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Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
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Ravnica
The online is just an effortless money grab. They put no effort into this. Nintendo's refusal to develop a decent online experience combined with their isolation from esports is a telltale sign that they're still trying to maintain the image of a game company that makes family friendly games with a demographic of kids under the age of 14. Almost all of their highly advertised games are meant to be played as couch multiplayer (or at least not online in a major way), and Smash suffers because of this. It could be very lucrative for Nintendo if they tried esports or at least developing online servers that provided players with an experience they can't get on another platform. Smash was clearly meant to be the flagship of NSO, and it's the only game save SMM2 that has a major connection to the service. Other games have little use of online, which I'm guessing was Nintendo's intention.

The best example of evidence I can give for this is Three Houses. There was so much missed opportunity for online content in FE3H, and yet the most interaction between players is a laggy system of NPCs that represent random players online. You'd think in 2019 (basically 2020 now) they would have concocted some sort of brilliant online battle system or map maker or something that creates an interactive feedback loop for players who have completed the game half a dozen times by now. But no, we're limited to little icons and blips that tell you what other players are doing.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Nintendo has no intention of establishing a major online presence, and the only reason they're charging for NSO is because they realized they can make a ton of quick money by advertising it alongside Smash, which is why Smash's online is absolute trash. They don't have to make it any better if they know you're still going to pay for it. I'm pretty sure a few months ago somebody from Nintendo stated they were disappointed that not as many people s they had hoped for were purchasing the $20 subscription, even though it should be obvious to them that their online platform is mediocre compared to almost all others.
 
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