Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[BoomFrog]

still trying to find out a way to mislynch the cop eh?

Well I started the day with thinking you were nearly 100% scum, so this has taken some adjustment. I really don't understand how you started the day not be suspicious of me. Like, cirucumstantially I look terrible from EoD3. I moved the yeet off of scum and onto two different townies. So it was very suspicious for me that you didn't find me scummy at that time.

Anyway, Frozen has been fairly convincing that he and Fonti are actually not DH's buddies, so I'm going to do some rereading, but I think the team has to be just Kary+wam. Too bad Kary had to be replaced out. I'd prefer he is here to talk with before yeeting him.

 

[Malakandra]

I just have. We will see.

You got this answer yet?

 

[BoomFrog]

Hey, Wam If I'm scum, who is my buddy?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Mod Announcement: Kary has requested a replacement.

guys can we just ****ing euthanize this slot please ffs

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

if all the scum want to be bitchmade and replace out once Im on them just let them but dont force GLG to have to sell some poor soul on replacing in this late in the game and have to carry water for someone who openly admitted theyve given up

 

[BoomFrog]

I really don't want to be refreshing this game for the next hour and a half.

I think Wam is a much better elim than somi, and Chaco might be better than somi as well. If somi flips up green I feel like we learn nothing.

My spicy picks would be fonti or synchro at this point, but I'd rather reach a consensus I can get behind than shoot myself in the foot trying to be clever.

Vote: Wam

Man, Kary+Wam does not make sense. What is the deal....

 

[BoomFrog]

This game is going to give me a headache.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Man, Kary+Wam does not make sense. What is the deal....

Wam has been the most bussable slot this game and you know it, why would kary get any credit for this in your eyes?

 

[Pythag]

guys can we just ****ing euthanize this slot please ffs

I'm down

vote Kary

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wam on me im so ****in obvtown dont let me down

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Malakandra on me*

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

wam can go for it too, prove to me youre a neighbor plz im ready to solve now

 

[BoomFrog]

bolded is juicy af, further confirms trying to keep kary's general townreadness afloat and continuing to go after me and fonti. scum DID NOT like the idea of our two slots becoming a coalition it seems

Why did your evaluation of this quote ignore that DH was pushing against me in it? It feels like you are pushing a specific narrative here.

 

[fontisian]

Yeah, no need for a replacement, let's just kill em.

Boom after probs ends it.

 

[fontisian]

No hammers yet, I need some time tomorrow to go over things.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Why did your evaluation of this quote ignore that DH was pushing against me in it? It feels like you are pushing a specific narrative here.

dont even start with me with rhis narrative bull****, Ive been the victim of it all game I aint got the patience to deal with people trying to 180 it onto me

if you seriously couldnt tell how literally stream of consciousness that entire sequence was youre either scum or lost like come the **** on Im not ****ing pushing anything that was me reading each of DHs posts sequentially and hitting reply when I had a comment on what I read

 

[Malakandra]

I'm willing to vote Kary at this stage.

 

[Malakandra]

oh throw a question mark on that so I'm not giving my reads

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

BoomFrog ok sorry that was unnecessarily snarky Ill actually respond to the point youre trying to make possibly in good faith

If theres any narrative im subconsciously pushing its the narrative that the scum have been coasters and are now giving up and kary fits the mold 100%

Am I riding high from validation after DH flip? You bet your ass. But idc, I have all signs pointing to this being a real solve and withvmy convictios having having been validated I have no reservation calling what is very obviously my slightly tunnely solve as a "narrative" because I understand how it could be seen that way

 

[Malakandra]

Weren't we all wanting like a town core we could trust to follow and stuff. Do you think that knowing the position of the town peeps is worth the trade off of scum maybe going for a buss when we have them to a small PoE at this point Boom?

 

[BoomFrog]

Yeah, no need for a replacement, let's just kill em.

Boom after probs ends it.

You're the one who told me not to go for Kary D1 and D2. And DH D2 for that matter.

 

[Malakandra]

What do people think the chances of scum roleblocking Wam to try to frame him here are?

 

[BoomFrog]

Weren't we all wanting like a town core we could trust to follow and stuff. Do you think that knowing the position of the town peeps is worth the trade off of scum maybe going for a buss when we have them to a small PoE at this point Boom?

The point of the town core is to force the scum in the PoE to panic as they have no where to go. Then town core decides where to actually go at EoD.

 

[BoomFrog]

What do people think the chances of scum roleblocking Wam to try to frame him here are?

Decently likely. That's a weird message for a roleblock though. But Busdriver shouldn't have stopped neighborizer either, so idk.

 

[BoomFrog]

Yeah ****it. Fonti and FF seem sincerely excited about the flip and the cop result. Let's yeet Kary and see what happens.

 

[Malakandra]

Decently likely. That's a weird message for a roleblock though. But Busdriver shouldn't have stopped neighborizer either, so idk.

what would be a standard roleblock message?

Also I asked and I wouldn't get told if I was redirected, which is why I'm skeptical about this whole thing.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Decently likely. That's a weird message for a roleblock though. But Busdriver shouldn't have stopped neighborizer either, so idk.

This is a fair point and Ive been chewing on this which is why Im trying to pull wam to confirm with me. My current explanation im rolling with if its town!wam is that instead of it failing in an obvious way that didnt require mod explanation like targetting the nightkill straight up is. GLG maybe have felt compelled to offer some explanation to wam due to him targetting someone who to his knowledge is still alive, him being unaware of the bus driving effect. Essentially N3s "failure" has operative distinction from wams claimed N1 and N2 moves

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

what would be a standard roleblock message?

Also I asked and I wouldn't get told if I was redirected, which is why I'm skeptical about this whole thing.

fwiw, bodyguard isnt an "info generating role" in the same sense neighbor is. As neighborizor youre expecting some informational development that is mod sourced, bodyguard you just wait for the flip post because according to your role your ability gets public modconfirmed anyway. Just an important asymmetry to consider, Im still not at all convinced wam isnt scum neighborizor or just lying scum lol

 

[BoomFrog]

what would be a standard roleblock message?

I've seen just no message or usually something like "No result" or "Your action failed" or in flavorful games, "A dark mist chokes you and you fail to find Malakadra" so I wouldn't worry too much about the wording. There's really not a standard. Also, this forum probably runs things slightly differently anyway. #HBC | FrozeηFlame Do you think that message was normal for a roleblock on this forum?

Im still not at all convinced wam isnt scum neighborizor or just lying scum lol

I'm 80% sure that wam really has that power and really got that weird error message. It's too specific and weird of a lie to claim that. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I've seen just no message or usually something like "No result" or "Your action failed" or in flavorful games, "A dark mist chokes you and you fail to find Malakadra" so I wouldn't worry too much about the wording. There's really not a standard. Also, this forum probably runs things slightly differently anyway. #HBC | FrozeηFlame Do you think that message was normal for a roleblock on this forum?


I'm 80% sure that wam really has that power and really got that weird error message. It's too specific and weird of a lie to claim that. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum.

Just catching up I got your action was unable to be completed. Which aligns with targeting mala and mala being bus driven with osie. Interestingly it also backs it up as in the two nights I hit the night kill I didnt get any message.

There really isn't a standard so it's up to mod discretion to decide how much they communicate about a failed action if at all. Generally speaking though I think the general trend is that if you use an ability that normally "returns information to you via the mod" then it is normal to expect the mod to say something along the lines of "your action failed" if you were roleblocked or otherwise had your ability caused to fail. A message like "your action was unable to be completed" as wam is claiming doesn't come off to me as particularly stange, just a bit unique/idiosyncratic. I think "your action failed" would be the more "standard" language but again it doesn't come off as outside what I'd expect

and again, I think given the highly unique scenario that pythag/mala/wam are claiming to have occured, saying the action "was unable to be completed" seems to follow. Like mala would have been a valid target but wams target was surrepticiously swapped. There's no reason for the mod to confirm it was swapped but it certainly is fishy that his target was still alive but the action didn't happen. normally wam wouldn't be scratching his head if his target was also the NK cuz he'd see the flip, so it doesn't really warrant the mod saying anything, it'd be redundant

 

[Pythag]

and again, I think given the highly unique scenario that pythag/mala/wam are claiming to have occured, saying the action "was unable to be completed" seems to follow. Like mala would have been a valid target but wams target was surrepticiously swapped. There's no reason for the mod to confirm it was swapped but it certainly is fishy that his target was still alive but the action didn't happen. normally wam wouldn't be scratching his head if his target was also the NK cuz he'd see the flip, so it doesn't really warrant the mod saying anything, it'd be redundant

well, the bus driver swaps all things, so in this instance isn't it like wam target OsieOrb, who got killed by the mafia?
Can you neighbhorize a dead person?
Does the mafia kill go first or what?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

well, the bus driver swaps all things, so in this instance isn't it like wam target OsieOrb, who got killed by the mafia?
Can you neighbhorize a dead person?
Does the mafia kill go first or what?

As far as order of operations, this is always my assumption for what is being applied and tbqh I think mods do their games a disservice by not applying this system: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

generally, target swappers and role blockers would be in the highest tier because for them to even be effective they have do go first or after very, very few other moves who would essentially be granted immunity from their powers by virtue of going first

so in this instance, this is how I believe it would be resolved:

pythag swaps mala and DH, therefore all abilities targetting mala now target DH and vice versa

wam targets mala, which is then, unbeknownst to wam, changed by the mod via pythags power to wam targetting DH

??? targets mala to kill, which is then, unbeknownst to ???, change by the mod via pythags power to ??? targetting DH

therefore, mod has no result to return to wam, but wam would not ordinarily receive any info to explain why his original target, mala, is still alive but yet his action failed. normally, when someone's submitted target dies, there is no explanation need for not getting a "result" from the mod because the answer is self evident from the flip. In this scenario, mala did not flip yet wam's ability failed. The mod cant, and shouldnt, tell wam that his "target was swapped to an invalid target" because that gives too much away. Saying something like "your ability failed" to a role expecting a result outside the scenarios where their target flips makes perfect sense to me in such a scenario

 

[BoomFrog]

I buy it. I'm ready to yeet Kary once Fonti is done with whatever she's working on. See ya around Mala :D

 

[Wam]

You got this answer yet?

No

Hey, Wam If I'm scum, who is my buddy?

Font most likely. Kary as a runner up by poe

 

[Wam]

I will support a kary lynch on the proviso that whether they flip town or scum we go boom next!

 

[BoomFrog]

I will support a kary lynch on the proviso that whether they flip town or scum we go boom next!

Mmmm hmmm...
A) Your consent is not needed to yeet Kary, we already have 4 votes.
B) If anyone would yeet me regardless of how Kary flipped then they should yeet me first.

Make your case man. Yes, EoD3 looks bad for me. But you were for yeeting Fonti who you now think is town, so what else can you show that points to me?

Can you show where you have pushed for a Kary or DH yeet before?

 

[fontisian]

Bleh, I'm sorry guys, I'm having a rough few days. I don't want to drag this Day out for my sake if that undermines other people's enthusiasm, and I feel like we should always yeet Kary anyway with the timing of that replacement, so I can vote if needed.

 

[BoomFrog]

Meh, I'm pretty sure we got this.

Vote Kary

 

[BoomFrog]

I can't see myself getting talked out of the Kary yeet, (not that anyone is trying besides wam) And a definitive flip will make the analysis easier.

 

[Malakandra]

Should I hammer?