There's really only posts about playing AGAINST Yoshi around here

[chipndip]

I don't know...I kind of find it weird that there' hardly any content on playing AS Yoshi in this sub-forum. A lot of the posts are about other people asking us how to beat...us, rather than any information on how to make ourselves better players. No vods, no tech, no strategy talk, no nothing. I find it odd.

 

[TJ919]

A friend of mine has a really good Yosh--but I don't think he does SmashBoards. I was gonna Main him way back when.

 

[Zinith]

Maybe it's because Yoshi is a relatively simple character to get good at that casual players can get good results (and they'd just ask around about characters they can't beat) and the competitive players, since they crossed over from 4, know enough about the character that they need very little new information...

 

[Lukingordex]

I recommend trying the Yoshicord, there are people there willing to give advice and a lot of discussions on MUs and such (if you want to know something specific you can search a key word for it (example: Snake for the Snake MU) and you'll probably find discussion about it.

 

[chipndip]

I recommend trying the Yoshicord, there are people there willing to give advice and a lot of discussions on MUs and such (if you want to know something specific you can search a key word for it (example: Snake for the Snake MU) and you'll probably find discussion about it.

Where's the Yoshicord?

Maybe it's because Yoshi is a relatively simple character to get good at that casual players can get good results (and they'd just ask around about characters they can't beat) and the competitive players, since they crossed over from 4, know enough about the character that they need very little new information...

He's simple to understand, but he plateaus rather hard when it comes to dealing with less than optimal match-ups. He's a character that does well until you run into someone that actually knows how to deal with Yoshi, whether that's through game play or counter-picking. I have a back-up Palutena for the occasion, but I want to be able to deal with most blind pick situations with my main. Palutena's for Chrom/Lucina/Cloud/Rob/a few others.

 

[Jaro235]

I agree with you. I am so tired of scrolling through Smashboards and seeing, “how do you beat Yoshi?” I want to get some advice on how to do some of his egg combos, but all I get are ways to get around him. I want find learn how to deal with a matchup against Lucina, Chrom, or Palutena , because while those matchups are rough, they are not unwinnable. It’s just frustrating when it is nothing but posts about how to beat him, especially when people are already finding ways to gimp and counter him. He’s already dropping on the tier list already and we are still getting these kinds of posts.

 

[chipndip]

I agree with you. I am so tired of scrolling through Smashboards and seeing, “how do you beat Yoshi?” I want to get some advice on how to do some of his egg combos, but all I get are ways to get around him. I want find learn how to deal with a matchup against Lucina, Chrom, or Palutena , because while those matchups are rough, they are not unwinnable. It’s just frustrating when it is nothing but posts about how to beat him, especially when people are already finding ways to gimp and counter him. He’s already dropping on the tier list already and we are still getting these kinds of posts.

I think Lucina's Yoshi's absolute worst match-up, honestly. Cloud and Chrom are pretty bad, too.

 

[Jaro235]

I think Lucina's Yoshi's absolute worst match-up, honestly. Cloud and Chrom are pretty bad, too.

I think Shulk is up there. His sword is huge, he is much faster, and if he is played well, he can kill Yoshi a lot more quickly than Lucina can.

 

[chipndip]

I think Shulk is up there. His sword is huge, he is much faster, and if he is played well, he can kill Yoshi a lot more quickly than Lucina can.

Sure, but his swings are slow and he's only faster with the appropriate Monado arts. You can kite Buster/Smash and play into his lessened damage in Speed and higher damage taken in Jump. In shield, just toss him around.

Lucina, however, is quick, swings quick, and beats literally every option Yoshi has if they try to clash moves. Yoshi's ONLY option into Lucina is to shield and punish, but then she can Shield Breaker the shield and it's lights out at like 50%. I'm honestly just using Palutena into Lucina/Chrom/ROB as a general rule of thumb at this point, and adding others to that list as I continue learning about match-ups I like and don't like.

 

[Delta-cod]

I don't know...I kind of find it weird that there' hardly any content on playing AS Yoshi in this sub-forum. A lot of the posts are about other people asking us how to beat...us, rather than any information on how to make ourselves better players. No vods, no tech, no strategy talk, no nothing. I find it odd.

What's happened is that Smashboards is, by and large, a place for entry-to-mid level players to hunt for pieces of information to help improve their game. Since Yoshi as a character has always had a small player base, there are few Yoshis around to drive discussion or discovery. Since the few Yoshis that are around are entry-to-mid level, they don't really have the knowledge or expertise to generate discussion.

Other, more typically popular characters, will have more players at that entry/mid level, thus more discussion (slightly, anyways). They are also likely to find nothing about Yoshi in particular in their character board and so they come here for help.

Edit: Also, since Yoshi is unpopular and the community is so small, it has become sort of an in-group that has transitioned from game to game. That's also why so much is happening away from here -- the major Yoshis already have the group they will work with and have no need to look here or share anything here.

Most of the higher level discussion/discovery/analysis is held in character Discords now. See below as an example.

I recommend trying the Yoshicord, there are people there willing to give advice and a lot of discussions on MUs and such (if you want to know something specific you can search a key word for it (example: Snake for the Snake MU) and you'll probably find discussion about it.

Message boards have become a thing of the past as far as the Yoshi community (and the Smash community at large) is concerned. It would require the dedication of the individuals in the Discord to share the findings here or shift discussion here, but there's practically no incentive for them to do this.

Part of this could be the increase in competitive games becoming "lifestyles". For competitive Smash, if you want to compete and stay afloat, you need to dedicated an inordinate amount of time to it. That means joining the Discord, staying intensely involved with the players there and forming those connections so they'll actually want to help you. This also requires you to travel to events in person, compete, and get videos to ask for specific advice. You will also typically need to prove yourself as "good" for people to take you seriously and want to spend serious time on you.

In the past, discussion would happen on Smashboards with dedicated threads and topics that were easy to access and find, and did not require you to find an elusive link/invite to a Discord chat somewhere. Things were shared for everyone's benefit publicly and easily. That's just not the case anymore.

So anyways, if you're looking for tips and tricks about playing as Yoshi, you'll need to carve out a lot of your time for Smash and keeping up with the Yoshis in the Discord.

 

[Lukingordex]

Here's the Discord Link: https://discordapp.com/invite/QKanWPU

 

[Sinister Slush]

As Delta said forums are unfortunately losing its use when I still feel it's a better place to archive important topics/discussion.
A problem for Yoshi community at least has always been people dipping their toes in the content creator side of things (good content, not basic entry level stuff that new players aren't looking for while also having low/mid level knowledge of Yoshi) or laziness.
I fit both of these sadly lmao. Could be doing high level knowledgeable vids if I knew how to work around programs, but then even if I did. Lazy.


Discords are the main place to "discuss" things, but the problem with Official ones (Smashcords for any character) it's also a place with 85 or so percentage of entry level players and very few mid level. You'd be hard pressed to find even high level since the PGR level players stick to their own discord groups, and even if they're in the character discord they never talk in there. Some discords owners/staff aren't even a main for said character sometimes.

You'll join one of these character discords, see over 3k members around 70ish active if you go the extra mile and record names of every different user, and the advice people give is usually very low quality or parroting what some top level player said in their recent clickbait ad revenue video.


I'm currently banned afaik in the smashcords Yoshi one along with Wall (the only saving grace of the community in both 4/5 tbh when he made content for Yoshi) so no idea if they've improved but back then in 4 it was pretty... uhhh, interesting to say the least on how many times we'd have to repeat ourselves to the people in there and our advice falling of deaf ears.
It was actually kind of nauseating how us two and others having to tell people so much in that server not to do grab release to the point it turned into a meme for the entirety of the games lifespan, when some servers (not just yoshi, have noticed it in other character cords) main goal is just online crew battles with minimal discussion and making memes, there's a problem in the system. Unless the system truly is just bringing the kiddos together in one place to have fun then nvm its doing the job nicely.

Here's the Discord Link

Also SB don't allow discord links Luking

 

[Delta-cod]

and the advice people give is usually very low quality or parroting what some top level player said in their recent clickbait ad revenue video.

Ahhh, this is one of the craziest things that's happened to Smash. As it's grown and made top players into celebrities, nobody really dares think on their own or challenge what top players say, even if that top player isn't an expert on said topic. Drives me nuts.

Also SB don't allow discord links Luking

I double-checked mod guidelines regarding Discord actually -- there's just not supposed to be dedicated Discord threads on the boards anymore. Seeing as how the link was directly relevant to the topic being discussed (where are the Yoshis at), there's not really any reason to remove it. The rules and Terms of use also don't cover Discord at all (explicitly), though this could fall under advertising I guess. But again, the on-topic relevance sort of excludes that.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Ahhh, this is one of the craziest things that's happened to Smash. As it's grown and made top players into celebrities, nobody really dares think on their own or challenge what top players say, even if that top player isn't an expert on said topic. Drives me nuts.

It's honestly a sad state for Smash. There's tons of horribly bad opinions from top level players like zero m2k leffen ESAM etc. (smash 4/5) but the smaller channels that don't have huge followings, no matter which game, always has more level headed thoughts in their vids most of the time like void dabuz as a few examples.
Not sure what it is but my guess is because the ones with huge followings or sponsors (back then for zero TSM, m2k echo fox, leffen tsm for these examples) they just try to get their opinion out there the fastest due to ad revenue and the sponsors usually want them pumping our and streaming a certain amount to qualify staying with them still while everyone else usually takes their time. Or of course how mellow they are on their content creation since void is CLG but they've started to fall off from being a big org like TSM and C9.

I double-checked mod guidelines regarding Discord actually -- there's just not supposed to be dedicated Discord threads on the boards anymore. Seeing as how the link was directly relevant to the topic being discussed (where are the Yoshis at), there's not really any reason to remove it. The rules and Terms of use also don't cover Discord at all (explicitly), though this could fall under advertising I guess. But again, the on-topic relevance sort of excludes that.

Wasn't sure cause I've seen posts edited in threads before that had discord links, if it's just dedicated threads that's cool but also weird. People just gonna link the server in posts nyways. Though I guess for posts you gotta dig through comments and pages to find em while discord people can just ctrl+f discord for the character board.

 

[Delta-cod]

It's honestly a sad state for Smash. There's tons of horribly bad opinions from top level players like zero m2k leffen ESAM etc. (smash 4/5) but the smaller channels that don't have huge followings, no matter which game, always has more level headed thoughts in their vids most of the time like void dabuz as a few examples.
Not sure what it is but my guess is because the ones with huge followings or sponsors (back then for zero TSM, m2k echo fox, leffen tsm for these examples) they just try to get their opinion out there the fastest due to ad revenue and the sponsors usually want them pumping our and streaming a certain amount to qualify staying with them still while everyone else usually takes their time. Or of course how mellow they are on their content creation since void is CLG but they've started to fall off from being a big org like TSM and C9.

Such is the tragedy of esports. The kind of cult following is a major reason why I feel like a lot of the competition has stagnated -- people aren't really trying to think or learn on their own. Just gotta parrot the talking-heads to fall in line with the community. It was a lot better when regions were isolated and there weren't (generally) huge national followings of individuals. Easier to build up a local reputation that way.

Wasn't sure cause I've seen posts edited in threads before that had discord links, if it's just dedicated threads that's cool but also weird. People just gonna link the server in posts nyways. Though I guess for posts you gotta dig through comments and pages to find em while discord people can just ctrl+f discord for the character board.

Well, this is just my interpretation of what we have. I think it's counter-productive to hide things in situations like this -- it'll just drive things below-board.

 

[Lukingordex]

Discords are the main place to "discuss" things, but the problem with Official ones (Smashcords for any character) it's also a place with 85 or so percentage of entry level players and very few mid level. You'd be hard pressed to find even high level since the PGR level players stick to their own discord groups, and even if they're in the character discord they never talk in there. Some discords owners/staff aren't even a main for said character sometimes.

You'll join one of these character discords, see over 3k members around 70ish active if you go the extra mile and record names of every different user, and the advice people give is usually very low quality or parroting what some top level player said in their recent clickbait ad revenue video.

I'm currently banned afaik in the smashcords Yoshi one along with Wall (the only saving grace of the community in both 4/5 tbh when he made content for Yoshi) so no idea if they've improved but back then in 4 it was pretty... uhhh, interesting to say the least on how many times we'd have to repeat ourselves to the people in there and our advice falling of deaf ears.
It was actually kind of nauseating how us two and others having to tell people so much in that server not to do grab release to the point it turned into a meme for the entirety of the games lifespan, when some servers (not just yoshi, have noticed it in other character cords) main goal is just online crew battles with minimal discussion and making memes, there's a problem in the system. Unless the system truly is just bringing the kiddos together in one place to have fun then nvm its doing the job nicely.

I have to say I completely agree that, in Smash 4 times, trying to discuss anything there felt very ankward. I myself felt discouraged to give any advice there because I always felt like I would either be completely ignored or someone would say I was wrong and give some nonsensical reason as to why. I even ended up quitting the Yoshicord myself at some point and only returned after the release of Ultimate.

I don't know if anything special happened, but I'm feeling a lot better towards the Yoshicord now. The discussions seem to have improved a lot and people usually seem to be providing way better advice than they used to in Smash 4 days.

Maybe it's because I kinda got more recognized? I was still very timid in terms of talking there until I decided to participate in an online Yoshi only tourney organized by the Yoshicord just for fun and got 2nd being able to reset the bracket against Yikarur. I got a lot more talkative after that I guess, and it does seems like people started to take the things I say more seriously. I'm not sure if that's truly the cause I am now take more seriously there, but if it is, yeah, it kinda sucks because there are a lot of players out there that could give good contributions to the community that simply aren't recognized.

I still notice some problems like people frequently repeating certain questions like "how do I deal with swordfighters" and then we have to point out the same thing we said the other day or ask the user to search the specific MU discussion in the search bar. It does get very annoying sometimes, but it's probably more of a Discord thing than a Yoshicord thing, considering the search function is not the most intuitive out there.

Also I had absolutely no idea both Wall and you were banned from there. Why would that happen? Wall was one of the fell who showed good results back in 4 and you're one of the most important discussers that I know of in the Yoshi SmashBoards forums in brawl/early smash 4 meta times. Knowing this does make me raise my eyebrows.

 

[Yoshi_smash]

Edit: Also, since Yoshi is unpopular and the community is so small, it has become sort of an in-group that has transitioned from game to game.

Why is Yoshi unpopular? And does that affect Yoshi's tier ranking?

 

[Jaro235]

Why is Yoshi unpopular? And does that affect Yoshi's tier ranking?

There are MANY reasons why Yoshi is unpopular in Smash. The thing about Yoshi is that many people find him extremely annoying to fight against and easy to use. Many players say that he takes no skill to use with his safe attacks which leads them to say that Yoshi players are braindead. Another thing is that Yoshi doesn’t have the coolness of characters like Falcon or Snake, he is not top tier like Olimar or Peach, and he is not as meme worthy as the Piranha Plant or Jigglypuff, so he kind of sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the fighters. Yoshi may not have as much hate as some fighters, but his haters are much more vocal. I have even seen one person say that it is more satisfying to watch Yoshi get bodied than Smash 4 Bayonetta. I completely disagree with all of this, but Yoshi gets a lot of hate for being simplistic high tier character. It affects his tier ranking because not many people play as him, which results in less people wanting to push his meta and more wanting to learn how to defeat him whenever they encounter good Yoshi players. It sucks, but characters that not many people use are less likely to rise on the tier than popular characters because there are less people that are willing to push that character’s meta. I hope this helps.

 

[Zinith]

There are MANY reasons why Yoshi is unpopular in Smash. The thing about Yoshi is that many people find him extremely annoying to fight against and easy to use. Many players say that he takes no skill to use with his safe attacks which leads them to say that Yoshi players are braindead. Another thing is that Yoshi doesn’t have the coolness of characters like Falcon or Snake, he is not top tier like Olimar or Peach, and he is not as meme worthy as the Piranha Plant or Jigglypuff, so he kind of sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the fighters. Yoshi may not have as much hate as some fighters, but his haters are much more vocal. I have even seen one person say that it is more satisfying to watch Yoshi get bodied than Smash 4 Bayonetta. I completely disagree with all of this, but Yoshi gets a lot of hate for being simplistic high tier character. It affects his tier ranking because not many people play as him, which results in less people wanting to push his meta and more wanting to learn how to defeat him whenever they encounter good Yoshi players. It sucks, but characters that not many people use are less likely to rise on the tier than popular characters because there are less people that are willing to push that character’s meta. I hope this helps.

TL;DR People treat Yoshi unfairly...

 

[Jaro235]

TL;DR People treat Yoshi unfairly...

I agree with you completely.

 

[Delta-cod]

Why is Yoshi unpopular? And does that affect Yoshi's tier ranking?

A lot of it has to do with inertia -- Yoshi has been "weird" since early Smash games, mainly due to his weird Double Jump, lack of a recovery special, and inability to jump Out of Shield. Because of this, Yoshi doesn't play very similarly to...well, anyone. So people don't even play as him for the memes, even if he isn't necessarily bottom tier.

Example: In Brawl, Ganon was likely the worst character in the game. However, every single person I knew had a Ganon. Now, these Ganons weren't as good as the most dedicated of Ganon mains, but everyone knew how to do some basic Ganon tech (thunderstomping, mainly). Basic fundamentals also applied more easily to him because he had a standard double jump and could jump out of shield.

Conversely, nobody had a Yoshi except for Yoshi mains. I don't think I've ever seen a non-Yoshi main play Yoshi in Brawl.

Yoshi's lack of popularity certainly affects his tier ranking -- because he's different, people don't understand him too well, so he's not usually ranked or analyzed properly. However, tier rankings don't really matter. If a character is good, they don't stop being good just because the top players don't understand why and rank the character low. Yoshi hasn't honestly been high/top tier...ever, so the effect on his ranking is insignificant.