~ The Wolf Matchup Center

[castorpollux]

does jab1>utilt work at all?

i'm awful at getting anything to work out of jabs other than jab1>grab :/

been trying jab1>jab2 run away then bair and it works sometimes but i mess up the spacing a lot

jab only works into jab.

the other shenanigans are just mixups and mindgames

 

[Goldenadept]

**** you wolf D< if only he had ikes jab prowess!

nah, i like wolfs jab, its useful in some cases, its just too bad that i suck at mindgaming ppl into anything out of it

 

[castorpollux]

**** you wolf D< if only he had ikes jab prowess!

nah, i like wolfs jab, its useful in some cases, its just too bad that i suck at mindgaming ppl into anything out of it

well here's a tip,

jab jab -> runaway a little and bairing them (this is a very safe option and if you get people into the habit of shielding everytime you jab them twice, u can do jab jab -> grab instead)

 

[Ishiey]

Jab has variable knockback, although it isn't guaranteed jab > dsmash works out pretty well when floaty opponents are at kill %s for me.

Also, I like to complain about Wolf's jab not being broken. It does less damage than it should, can't jab lock, has too slow of a start-up, doesn't have any sexy guaranteed follow-ups, etc etc etc. Why oh why is our character good but not broken :<

 

[Goldenadept]

its cause wolf mains are all honorable and choose to play the best worst character in the game, when people lose to us its not cause we're broken but played better :3

then on the other hand we can whine all we want when we lose cause other characters are broken

 

[Laem]

silly ish closin the social
has he forgotten the first rule of wolf boards?
All threads are social threads.

 

[Lordydennek]

lol I don't play mario in brawl. I hate mario in brawl. I play melee. wolf's blaster seems really good to me. just be careful of lag. btw what throws should i use? do any set up for combos? also wolf seems like a good char to me. he just needs to be played in a situational basis rather than an all around strategy...tho bair is always a good choice. his jab combo is ****.

 

[Goldenadept]

against snake or characters like rob that're easily juggled bthrow/uthrow are helpful

agaisnt everyone else dthrow is usually the best choice cause it sets up for a mini tech chase where if you predict well enough you can get a follow up or another grab it also semi spikes if you're close to the ledge.
fthrow is close to dthrow and can combo into dacus at low/mid percents

 

[Ishiey]

silly ish closin the social
has he forgotten the first rule of wolf boards?
All threads are social threads.

Exactly why I felt it would be okay to lock it for a while :3

Use the temp social for now though. I want this thread to attempt to remain at least somewhat on-topic

 

[Goldenadept]

JJ and i had an intelligent and on topic discussion here somehow, it was fun.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

The Wolf matchup is gong to be discussed in the Lucario Metagame IRC tonight at 8 pm EST, if you're available then stop by and join the discussion.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283638

 

[Juushichi]

Why not just use the big five? Heavy Advantage, Advantage, Even, Disadvantage, Heavy Disadvantage? Is a number system super necessary? (Hi Wolf mains!)

Hi again everyone!

 

[Ishiey]

Hi again everyone!

Hi

Yeah...................... I suck at life. Bad.

But we decided on matchup ratios being given for certain categories of stages on a 10-point scale, I believe. This means we need to go back and discuss stages more in the last set of exports though :x

 

[Rizk18]

ikachu:
:Fox:
nuff said jk

 

[Deleted member]

So...yeah. I wanna discuss other characters soon. And we need to put down ratios for the MUs we discussed. I don't think the 10 point scale is gonna work. 5 point just seems the most sensible.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I think that some of the problems we have is that we don't have much experience as a group to make the best judgments on MUs. So this is what I think we should do. Instead of saying, "Let's discuss Fox," we should say, "Alright, it's Fox week. Go out and hunt as many foxes as you can, play them, then get back here in two weeks. We'll discuss the MU."

I think if each of us takes the initiative to go and GET the exp, it'll be easier. Rather than come into the discussion and say, "Yeah, not much exp. Oh well, can't help."

We need initiative.

We're so lazy.

 

[Choice]

Don't worry if its put on hold ish.

 

[Ishiey]

I like what you're saying Asaph, but... not everyone can just go out and get Fox experience, y'know? X_x It's easier said than done, basically. Especially because when you really want to learn a matchup, secondaries rarely ever cut it. You need a main, and a good one at that. We should be taking initiative all the time regardless, whenever you're at a tournament and see a skilled main of another underrepresented character ask them for some serious friendlies. Don't wait for a MU discussion to get experience ;D

@ Choice: You know. Let me know ;D

@ everyone else: Mindgames. Since it's break I might start this up again, maybe pick a few of the matchups that people had varying opinions on from Seagull's thread.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I like what you're saying Asaph, but... not everyone can just go out and get Fox experience, y'know? X_x It's easier said than done, basically. Especially because when you really want to learn a matchup, secondaries rarely ever cut it. You need a main, and a good one at that. We should be taking initiative all the time regardless, whenever you're at a tournament and see a skilled main of another underrepresented character ask them for some serious friendlies. Don't wait for a MU discussion to get experience ;D

Oh, and I'm not criticizing you, Ish. Hope you didn't think it was directed at you.

The entire wofl board is kind of lazy. Hell, I've skipped you guys for a year. lol But I do know, including myself, that we need more initiative, even if "Fox week" isn't realistic. We should be playing as many people as we can.

Actually, I'd argue that our MU discussions have a ton of experience...in not getting much done.

That's another big problem, actually. We can get big time players of other characters, but they've never really played many amazing wolves. I don't think we'll have a good MU thread until the Wolf game explodes a bit.

 

[Tesh]

Sonic boards are discussing the Wolf matchup. Come educate us about your character.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296095

 

[Deleted member]

Lets discuss the Toon Link Match-up.

 

[Ishiey]

Anyone else up for a TL matchup discussion?

Btw in case I didn't say this before, this is on hold because I'm waiting for the BBR to release their matchup chart thingie.

 

[Laem]

did you know TL has like a 0-70% combo on wolf
its looks really freaking stupid cuz it is but it works and is fairly flashy so.. yeah

Semifer knows it (get in here D: ), its something with bair > footstool and double dair hits

anyway
i like to think its even, but TL is pretty hard imo
returning boomerangs are gay for interrupting my guaranteed punishes.

 

[_Kain_]

Wolf wins the MU not by a lot. You just have to play it patiently. Trade hits with his camping with urs. Chase him offstage. Bair beats everything he has. He dies pretty fast. Avoid his bair chains with good DI. Learn to PS good. One thing you should never do in this MU is go aggro cause you'll eat up so many projectiles its not even funny. PLay patient

 

[castorpollux]

im sure shine -> roll can be useful

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

dont forget about the tl dsmash off the edge the could end up being a gimp if you dont Di correctely which can happen at low percentages

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf wins the MU not by a lot. You just have to play it patiently. Trade hits with his camping with urs. Chase him offstage. Bair beats everything he has. He dies pretty fast. Avoid his bair chains with good DI. Learn to PS good. One thing you should never do in this MU is go aggro cause you'll eat up so many projectiles its not even funny. PLay patient

That may have been my issue. It was on wifi, but I got absolutely destroyed by a Toon Link mainly because I didn't know how to deal with the projectiles.

I think I just need to play every MU patiently...lol.

@M.C. Pee-Pants, I thought that's only on stages with slanted edges, like YI or Pictochat.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wolf beats Toon Link 55-45. Just reflect projectiles and Bair through his crap. When you're at death percents then stay grounded. He can't kill you safely if you're not in the air. His choices of kill moves:

*Usmash
*Fair
*Uair
*Fsmash

All these moves can be easily avoided by just staying grounded and powershielding then punishing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can jab his boomerang and his arrows and z-catch bombs. That takes care of his projectiles with minimal commitment.

 

[castorpollux]

LOL u can jab his boomerang? THATS AWESOME!!!

 

[Arrows]

Someone teach me the snake MU

 

[Laem]

first and foremost learn how to juggle if you can't yet.
bair is good vs snake, specifically moreso than fair which is relatively bad vs snake imo
some snakes will stubbornly attempt to shield > ftilt your (well spaced) landing bairs which actually works if you decide to jump again immediately(to bair him obv :D).
In this case shield and punish (2nd hit ftilt means a fair/usmash OoS regardless of its spacing, 1st hit preferably shieldgrab but if its well spaced i'm not too sure ).
so see whether they attempt to punish the bair or accept it as too good.

umm.. you can shine nades without taking damage. However, if you hit the nade AND Snake or his shield, you get hit.

If you're overly agressive(like me), remember to sometimes back off and bug him with laser. If you're overly defensive, at least make sure you blaster from a safe range. If you see him getting closer and PS'ing your lasers, dont shoot another.

im sure others will have more stuff
wasnt toon link going on?
w/e
wolf - snake is much cooler.

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

That may have been my issue. It was on wifi, but I got absolutely destroyed by a Toon Link mainly because I didn't know how to deal with the projectiles.

I think I just need to play every MU patiently...lol.

@M.C. Pee-Pants, I thought that's only on stages with slanted edges, like YI or Pictochat.

if you have bad di like me and recover poorly then it can pretty much work on anystage

 

[ToferTheHuman]

What is the Wolf match up against Marth?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf slightly wins it in my opinion. My experience against Marth is a bit outdated I admit but I'm hoping to play Mr-R soon to see how I'll do.

 

[Deleted member]

I always saw it as an even MU. Though the fact that Wolf has aerials that beat his Fair helps a lot in diminishing his stage control, so maybe it could be 55:45 Wolf?

I would prefer MU exports rather than a jumble of character MU discussions in one thread. We never even seemed to conclude the other MU discussions...>_>

Why wait for the BBR? It's not like there's a lot of actual Wolf players there(or people with a clue on how he's played), so their MU ratios will probably not reflect ours.

 

[tekkie]

55-45 marth

 

[Seagull Joe]

A lot of people say it's Wolf's favor 55-45 these days, but I think it's just even.

 

[Laem]

Spoiler

eureka

Whatever the number may be, you can't blame your character if you lose.

 

[tekkie]

Spoiler

eureka

Whatever the number may be, you can't blame your character if you lose.

this isn't the mk boards lol