~ The Wolf Matchup Center

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

I beat Player 1.

you lost to him to

 

[castorpollux]

every wolf player i've seen plays the diddy matchup badly. but then again, a lot of diddy players play the wolf matchup badly

 

[Seagull Joe]

you lost to him to

I beat him in random Rc singles (Most important event in my opinion), then he beat me in dubs, then he beat me in winners of singles, and I knocked him out when it mattered most in loser's bracket.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Seagull has Pika > Wario and Ishy has Wario > Pika. Is this just because Warios in these regions don't/can't realiably do the D-throw CG?

EDIT: For sake of voting for next discussion mine goes to/

Uh, I've played Reflex. He only played Wario against me when I played him in pools, knowing what I know now, I should have gone LINK/LUIGI/MARTH against him because that chaingrab is gay. He turned and appologized after our set and said that was one of the most gay things he's ever been associated with.

It felt like the first time I played Ice Climbers. If you want to archive hard look up what I wrote fino after our set. It's pretty morbid (I know, right?) and a total joke (I told him there would be fake internet rage). I think it was something like I was going to decapitate his true love and make love to his mother while I forced him to watch.

Anyway...the difference between Wario and IC's is that Wario is a MUCH BETTER CHARACTER THAN IC'S against Wolf in every facet of the game basically, other than before, what, 20%? Wario has the air speed to catch up, and his CG goes on forever.

yeah, pika can kinda platform camp, but his airspeed and laughable ground approach minus the grab is NOOOOOOOOTTTT EVEN CLOSE to warios. Pika can only CG til like 110 or something, if you just stay aprox in the center third of the stage you won't die. Wario keeps coming forever.

(ordered)
-3: |
-2:
-1: |
0: | |
+1: | |
+2: | |

Switch Pika/Wario
Make Sonic +2
Move Bowser back to +2
Make Samus and Ganondorf to +3. (If Falcon's Jab/grab wasn't so good.......)

Looks good imo.

Also I would like to help with both of those matchups, as I have grown to feel comfortable with them, more IC's than Falco, which is a major switch from December of 10 to 11.

 

[MegaRobMan]

whoooooopz

 

[Ishiey]

Thanks for posting the chart Anyways, my definite changes for next time would probably be:

Pika for -2: Duh... like all Wolves agree with this, but whatever, hopefully APEX will change some minds. It was a close call.
Bowser for +2: We're his hardest +1, so I think that's a fair change.
Zelda and Falcon for +3: The Zelda's convinced me about this in the old MU thread. Falcon... can't do anything against bair, or fair. Idk, it's depressing lol

I can see a lot of other MUs being moved around a bit, but don't want to mention things I'm not basically 100% on. Once APEX is past us we'll start discussing, two MUs at a time, first round being D3 and Falcon.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Next matchup chart I'm gonna make have only 5 negative matchups. , , and WILL BE EVEN~!!!!

I also will try to make +1 (Even TKD agreed with this...) and 0.

Definitely gonna argue with 's yet again next time as well...Kain play Esam. IT'S UP TO YOU ENRIQUE!

 

[SinisterB]

PLEASE DO

although I think v is semi-even, Fox definitely has favor but I don't think it's enough for a whole +1

Spoiler

also because we can't let him do that

 

[_Kain_]

Next matchup chart I'm gonna make have only 5 negative matchups. , , and WILL BE EVEN~!!!!

I also will try to make +1 (Even TKD agreed with this...) and 0.

Definitely gonna argue with 's yet again next time as well...Kain play Esam. IT'S UP TO YOU ENRIQUE!

My body is ready

PLEASE DO

although I think v is semi-even, Fox definitely has favor but I don't think it's enough for a whole +1

Spoiler

also because we can't let him do that

He meant in our favor

 

[SinisterB]

Thank ****

I'd rather look like a derp than think like one, totally overhyped what I said because I value Seagull's input and didn't want to blatantly disagree needs to post more in wolf boards.


I've always thought the MU was pretty even, Wolf having better options than I think, just a little annoying to play so I gave Fox small favor. I honestly haven't ever played a good Fox so I can't say much. But yeah thanks for correcting me lmao.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Whoops. Sorry for the confusion LOL. I meant beats +1. I just base this off the fact that 's record in tourney with 's is extremely in our favor and we just seem to have better tools. We both can camp each other because of reflectors and projectile. Our projectile seems better by comparison because it ffff's when he is offstage and puts him in positions to be shine spiked. He is also much lighter (Bottom 5 lightest characters in the game).

Our damage output just seems better by comparison. Sure he can land a billion Utilts on us and kills us with Usmash, but if you just shield his moves then his options are highly limited. I actually wait a lot versus for him to throw out a move. I reflect his lasers till he finally decides to approach or I space Bairs/Fairs perfectly on his shield (Not like his grab range is large anyway) then go from there. Most people tend to be scared to challenge when he is above you out of fear of being Dair'd, but I just jump and space an Uair/Fair/Bair.

 

[Ishiey]

Thank ****

I'd rather look like a derp than think like one, totally overhyped what I said because I value Seagull's input and didn't want to blatantly disagree needs to post more in wolf boards.


I've always thought the MU was pretty even, Wolf having better options than I think, just a little annoying to play so I gave Fox small favor. I honestly haven't ever played a good Fox so I can't say much. But yeah thanks for correcting me lmao.

Bolded for emphasis

But yeah, I can kinda see Fox being towards +1. Ike being 0 is something I don't fully understand, at least when characters like TL are being put in +1.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

every wolf player i've seen plays the diddy matchup badly. but then again, a lot of diddy players play the wolf matchup badly

I'm not bad at it anymore, I'm just not good in general but my performances against Diddy were actually respectable recently.

And I don't think we beat Fox ... though I'm like the only one who thinks we beat GW =/

 

[DUB]

Does Wario have buffered fart on Wolf out of his CG?

 

[Ishiey]

I don't think so, iirc all he has is fthrow which won't even kill at like 230% with good DI lol.

Diddy is a plausible even, most people just suck with items in general, myself included partially due to no convenient grab button and as for G&W, idk, plausible, but it's going to be pretty tough to convince the G&W players, you saw how much they resisted an even MU

 

[Laem]

Next matchup chart I'm gonna make have only 5 negative matchups. , , and WILL BE EVEN~!!!!

I also will try to make +1 (Even TKD agreed with this...) and 0.

Definitely gonna argue with 's yet again next time as well...Kain play Esam. IT'S UP TO YOU ENRIQUE!

Oh boy

Wolf (still) loses to falco snake and diddy -1, and to fox -1 as well imo.
but go ahead XD

 

[Ishiey]

Why would Wolf lose to Fox? @_@ The others make enough sense, but Fox I really don't understand.

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

Id say shiek should be -2 the ftilt combo is ridiculous

 

[Zigsta]

Come at me, Ishey!

 

[tekkie]

snake even, rofl

inkiepie:

 

[MegaRobMan]

I agree with MCPee

 

[_Kain_]

Eh you guys should just learn how to avoid things better than you'll realize sheik isn't even that bad

 

[Ishiey]

No way Sheik should be -2... she's bad lol. Idk, Kain and Judo played eachother and both think -1, so that's what I'm siding with until I have more experience in the MU.

Zigsta, it's not even something I really want to push lol xD it's just that since you're among our easiest +1s, and we're among your hardest -1s, we might as well discuss the possibility of the MU being +/-2

 

[Laem]

Why would Wolf lose to Fox? @_@ The others make enough sense, but Fox I really don't understand.

In my experience:
- Wolf kinda gets combo'd stupid hard by him
- Lasers beat blaster
- Fox breaks through Wolf's zoning quite well (using his dash). When wolf is in in upsmash kill % and not in the lead he's seriously screwed lol.

Sheik is eh. It's better than -1 if we don't get ftilt locked at all, which appears to be suprisingly doable o_O

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Nothing on MK? ): I think it's important that we know about that MU. I can't find information reguarding it.
And how is Wolf even with Marth?

 

[Wolf McBlue]

And how is Wolf even with Marth?

I would like to know this too since we have a few marths in Alabama and I hate going up against them. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FxLyaOOS-Q

 

[tekkie]

lotsa theorycraft

 

[Ishiey]

I'm down for starting up MU exports again if people are interested. Agreed that it'd be helpful to have a bunch of information in one place about how to fight MK.

As for Marth, our fair outranges his, we have better survivability, better aerial mobility (helps with wars between his fair and our bair/fair), juggle him very well, and trap him at the ledge pretty well too. Not to mention camping him with our laser is a bit annoying. I play this MU a lot actually, and I'm pretty confident in saying it's even. Although at the top levels of play where Marth is spacing everything awesomely, it gets a lot harder :x

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

Its still not that bad even with perfect spacing we still got that blaster :T but one more thing you forgot to mention is that marfs when landing like to bait counters depending on the marth of course.

Also will wolfs get up attack on the ledge over 100% hit marth back off the stage if we time it right? I know ness can do it

 

[Ishiey]

I have no idea, but I'll test it out and get back to you next chance I get

Yeah they like to counter sometimes but I've never had too much of an issue with it. Charged smashes / grabbing dissuade them from countering too often

 

[_Kain_]

It only works if they don't space their up b right and go above the stage. If they space it well it won't hit them

 

[Youngster Joey]

guys did anyone figure out a campy toon link yet? i recently had a close encounter with one. brought him to frigate and just fell off the ungrabbable platform each time because he camped so much. but when we arent on frigate what should i do? i had so much trouble approaching

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

Toonlinks always have a pattern to them when the are using there items if a toonlink is camping hard then try and do their strategy which is camp then and let them come to you and good trick to do against toonlink is when tl throws a bomb hold your shield up and zair catch the bomb to throw it back at them also, pay attention to tl landing cause they like to arrow cancel when they land when they are away from you but if they are close they like to land with hookshot

 

[Youngster Joey]

i'll try and read the patterns more. if that doesnt work i'll be back here and let you know. i might just be bad at reads right now since ive really been playing competitively since the summer. do you recommend reflecting the arrow? or just punishing it?

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

Reflect it if you can other than that the safer option is shielding it

CALLING ALL WOLVES I NEED YOUR HELP ON WHAT TO DO AGAINST DDD WHEN HES RECOVERING LOW AND TRYING TO REACH THE LEDGE i NEED IDEAS!

 

[Ishiey]

We definitely need to start practicing ridiculous offstage edgeguards with shine/footstool/blaster hilt. There's definitely room for us to improve our edgeguarding game against D3, but they're all going to be insanely risky lol. But I guess that's normal when playing this MU anyways

 

[Wolf McBlue]

I don't know who I was watching but when d3 uses upb you can shine on the way down, I believe his superarmor is gone on the decend. I think it is too risky to try and do anything to d3 if he is below and still has a jump or two to stage spike us.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i thought yoshi was hard. you guys helped me with falco. what do i do about yoshis? that seems to be a dumb question but yoshis egg camp me and the grab gets me. falcos are easy now because i cant get spiked anymore. yoshi is hard because they're fast and grab a lot

 

[Ishiey]

If they grab a lot, don't shield or attack into his grab range. Yoshi has a tough time getting in through laser/bair/shine, similar to Sonic. The MU is mostly about properly learning how to shut down his options with those moves while not losing the camping war.

 

[tekkie]

also, nair's his "get outta my face" move so watch out (same as ness/peach/others)