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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated
- Thread starter Trent
- Start date
AscWolf
Smash Apprentice
Hey, I´m kinda new to Sonic.
Using him since a few Weeks as 2nd..
Got a tournament Match from last Week recordet.
I was a bit ill and got headache, so don´t wonder about the suicide at the beginning (Chair said it would be ok to come back to the Stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fxvRRgY7Nd4#t=305s vs. Chair :wariobrawl:
Using him since a few Weeks as 2nd..
Got a tournament Match from last Week recordet.
I was a bit ill and got headache, so don´t wonder about the suicide at the beginning (Chair said it would be ok to come back to the Stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fxvRRgY7Nd4#t=305s vs. Chair :wariobrawl:
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
where your vids Mr. Espy Kasrani. I wanna check them out! I havent watched you play in awhile. thats always fun to see.
Life
Smash Hero
^
Here you go.Vids of me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJn8RQslbY - Espy/Paw (Sonic/ZSS) vs. Trela/K Prime (Lucario/Pikachu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3jVjM3FIk - Espy (Sonic) vs. Tree (Sheik) (Winners Bracket)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC5j34A0EsU - Espy (Sonic) vs. Trela (Lucario) (Winner's Finals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10GAm4rk9c4 - Espy (Sonic) vs. K Prime (Pikachu) (Loser's Finals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiCpjbvNKc - Espy (Sonic) vs. Trela (Lucario) (Grand Finals)
I like my WF set with Trela more than my GF. I goofed waaaay too much in GF.
I'd say "**** this character", but that's kinda a given by now.
I swear to god this match up is stupidly hard. Unlike Meta Knight, this match gives you the false hope that MAYBE, just MAYBE you'll win a set, but then the game says, "Nah, we're gonna reward him for making mistakes and getting outplayed for a majority of the game" and BAM, you die around 100%. Hell, just look 8 minutes into the Grand Final set. That spells out the entire friggin' problem with this MU (by the way, that was just THREE HITS starting at 63%!!). There's no justice in that situation. It's bad enough that I have to work around gigantic walls of hitbox, a ridiculously fast jab, and amazing command grab mixups/early game combos that lead into crazy pressure-games, but the damn aura turns this road bump into Mount Kiliman-goddamn-jaro. Oh, and then you have to pull a win TWICE, or in my situations, THREE times in Winners, or SIX TIMES in Grand. That's just so friggin' IMPROBABLE.
I've tried camping, I've tried being patient, I've tried super aggro, I've tried timing out, I've tried preserving KO options, and mixtures of all of these possibilities, and nothing works. The only surefire way I'll EVER win this match up is to outplay Trela tenfold over a span of thirty minutes or MORE at this point, and that's reaching up into the realm of absurdity.
**** it, I'm just going to do whatever the hell I feel like from now on. There's nothing you can really do to this ******* of a character.
0-13 in sets with him now too, by the way. I give up at this stupidly lopsided match up.
By the way, our Team Set vs. K Prime and Trela went to Game 5. There was a game that didn't get recorded where I win a 2v1 vs. the two of them on Delfino. It was completely AWESOME.
But then they got better.
Our set vs. Nike/Megafox is also somewhere. Hopefully it'll be uploaded soon. We get pretty rocked. It was nasty.
=====
This isn't to say that I hate playing the people though. Much love to Trela, Prime, and everyone else too. I had a hell of a fun time PLAYING the games with you guys without a doubt.
But seriously, after re-watching the matches and feeling the frustration through the videos, all I have to say is **** your character and his ridiculous mechanics, Trela.
I just realized I said "**** your character" again when I already said that it was a given. I laughed.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
You know what must be done...
You know what must be done...
JoseLuisUrias
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 26
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
I second this if you feel theres nothing else that can be done Espy. I do think you are close though in figuring it out.
Yea, there is room for improvement Espy. You have to keep in mind that Trela is a very smart player of one of your worst matchups and he KNOWS the matchup. You will have to truly outsmart him at every turn to take a set.
I remember last time you faced him, you were saying you were gonna save kill moves and stuff, but like on your last stock of WF, you Fsmashed him across FD at like 100, then you baired him when could have hit with any aerial (nair is 1 less damage and you might have been able to land and then grab him for alot more than 13 damage).
I guess you had reasons for trying to get him to land in your dsmash, didn't look like it ever worked. Probably safer ways to try to punish an airdodge without getting daired every time.
In your GF set were you going to Dmash @ 3:27 or were you reading for a roll?
I remember last time you faced him, you were saying you were gonna save kill moves and stuff, but like on your last stock of WF, you Fsmashed him across FD at like 100, then you baired him when could have hit with any aerial (nair is 1 less damage and you might have been able to land and then grab him for alot more than 13 damage).
I guess you had reasons for trying to get him to land in your dsmash, didn't look like it ever worked. Probably safer ways to try to punish an airdodge without getting daired every time.
In your GF set were you going to Dmash @ 3:27 or were you reading for a roll?
Kinzer
Mammy
Yes.
Welp.
Espy, do whatever you want. Let me say that first.
Now that we've got that established, stop playing like you're a low-level Sonic not making every move you make efficient. That's not you and you damn well know it. Tesh has the right idea that you get too hasty when it comes to this, and you know better than to go in head first.
You want to win this matchup with Sonic? Then you have to start playing it properly. Doing this certainly won't get you anywhere. Complaining about it only admits to the frustration you feel and your opponents don't care how you feel. All that matters in the end is the one who is (golf)clapping.
... Anyway, who am I to talk anyway? I hate this game and especially the gimmicky characters. The ones that give Sonic trouble (not Lucario though) naturally also bother me.
Wanna look?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5X_4NodlFE - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. FOW(Falco, Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjg4EbLH6FA - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. K9(Falco)
Mmm, singles I lost. Probably the only one recorded I won... probably the only one I won anyway, lol.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo2Ka5yjJ14 - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. Twinx(Ness)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0xSlnl_JTY - Kinzer(Sonic) & Hino(Marth, Falco) Vs. SK92(Falco, Wario) & Lycan (Wolf, Snake)
Please tell me how I probably should've won, I'm out of practice, blah blah blah, basically whatever vice you got. Hahahaha, my goodness. I'm terrible when it comes to this game.
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
All Sonic's need to just think differently about kill percents. If you thought of Upthrow as a kill move and everything else as "early" you wouldn't be so bitter that you tried to fsmash him at 170 only to get grabbed at 110 thrown to another planet.
That goes for the end of that set with K9 too. Alot of other characters don't even have throws that kill like...ever. So get that grab and pummel pummel pummel. Why be greedy. You didn't work that hard and tack on 180 damage just to throw it away hastily.
All Sonic's need to just think differently about kill percents. If you thought of Upthrow as a kill move and everything else as "early" you wouldn't be so bitter that you tried to fsmash him at 170 only to get grabbed at 110 thrown to another planet.
That goes for the end of that set with K9 too. Alot of other characters don't even have throws that kill like...ever. So get that grab and pummel pummel pummel. Why be greedy. You didn't work that hard and tack on 180 damage just to throw it away hastily.
I'm tempted to look up your gameplan after your other loss and point out all the times you didn't follow it at all.
Or make some sort of "bad game plan" parody.
But seeing as you have 20,000+ post I don't really wanna go looking for it.
Or make some sort of "bad game plan" parody.
But seeing as you have 20,000+ post I don't really wanna go looking for it.
Kinzer
Mammy
Dammit, just as I was about to log out.
Espy, I'm basically with Tesh on this one. I don't know about your wall of whine, maybe. But the idea here is that you have the right ideas. That's the result of you just being a good player in general. For whatever reason, though, you don't execute them.
*Shrug.*
What else can I say?
Espy, I'm basically with Tesh on this one. I don't know about your wall of whine, maybe. But the idea here is that you have the right ideas. That's the result of you just being a good player in general. For whatever reason, though, you don't execute them.
*Shrug.*
What else can I say?
It's hard to follow a concrete "do this" plan when your environment is consistently changing against a player.
Now, add in the MU difficulty and a top level player into that mix.
That's probably why you never win, Tesh.
Kinzer, you haven't said anything that isn't already known.
Now, add in the MU difficulty and a top level player into that mix.
That's probably why you never win, Tesh.
Kinzer, you haven't said anything that isn't already known.
Kinzer
Mammy
Damn, that call out.
Well, I suppose all I can ask is this: Are you one of those people, such as myself, that gets incredibly annoyed by listening to people tell you what you are already aware of?Kinzer, you haven't said anything that isn't already known.
If yes, I'll stop here and go back to my life at home/campus.
If no, then you'll have to understand that even we take simple/obvious facts for granted and need to be reminded of them every so often. I can go from here... with something... possibly.
Edit: Oh boy, the "broken" card.
How I'd rather play a Meta Knight over a Falco, a Diddy, and a Luigi and blah blah blah any day of the week. But maybe I can only agree to disagree here.
When I say "I give up", I say "I'm not going to listen to any more of your suggestions because they don't work".
I'm playing the match up from here on out in a way that I feel comfortable with. Doing that got me closer than any of your elaborate "play to win" strategies, Tesh.
I guess no one read my wall, then. Except KID.
I'd LOVE to play more Diddy, Falco, and Olimar over Meta Knight.
I'm playing the match up from here on out in a way that I feel comfortable with. Doing that got me closer than any of your elaborate "play to win" strategies, Tesh.
I guess no one read my wall, then. Except KID.
I'd LOVE to play more Diddy, Falco, and Olimar over Meta Knight.
Da1AndOnlySonic
Smash Journeyman
Just keep doing your thing Espy, you'll have that winning set against Trela eventually. I didn't know it was that bad up to this point though, 0-13. How often do you guys play each other outside of tourney?
Da1AndOnlySonic
Smash Journeyman
That's unfortunate. =(
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
... yupI guess no one really cares, then. Except KID.
maybe you should change that.Never.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
thats why I trash talk people.
Its impossible for anyone to sandbag me.
I get the people who sand bag in tournament and against everyone else they know to play serious against me.
Its impossible for anyone to sandbag me.
I get the people who sand bag in tournament and against everyone else they know to play serious against me.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Pretty sure K9 sandbagged you pretty hard with secondaries.
And still bodied you for free.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
I think you all need to chill. Espy will find his way by himself. If he wants to play it a certain way then so be it. I do think there are certain advantages to playing defensive at certain times, however it has to be changed up. You play like Tesh is telling you and Trela being a smart player will read that ish and get that one punish. And unlike the majority of the cast, theres certain situations where Lucario can change the entire match around with one punish. The character is a fiend at high percent and can actually combo naturally not to mention free frame traps daily.
Espy you play it damn well, and i definitely understand what you are looking for to rush him down at kill %. I honest believe that if you work on punishing the small windows of his "safe" moves ( like fsmash or any spacing tool) then you can get that victory. It is hard though when you dont get a chance to play a competent lucario regularly. You really have to be on point with those small windows with that character imo. Especially when it comes to spin dash. Like learning what range you have to release right when Lucario puts the tilt or fsmash out. That would be the only advice I would ever give you Espy. Which isnt really anything you dont already know. I think thats the only thing I ever see you mess up on tbh. Thats a good thing.
Dont listen to Tesh, all he wants is an "i win" strat and refuses to believe anything can change within the span of 2-3 8 minutes matches ( if you are trying to camp them out).
That being said....... someone critique these old matches from me, I would like to see what i should and shouldnt take away from these. I already have an idea for myself but lets pretend I dont and tell me what you think.
B.A.M (Sonic) vs Jebus (Diddy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DzX-FYONrw
B.A.M (Sonic) vs Nismo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZtyNtmXavg
B.A.M (Sonic) vs DSF 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXvL2_8sj6c
B.A.M (Sonic) vs DSF 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMWrRqbZJmw
Espy you play it damn well, and i definitely understand what you are looking for to rush him down at kill %. I honest believe that if you work on punishing the small windows of his "safe" moves ( like fsmash or any spacing tool) then you can get that victory. It is hard though when you dont get a chance to play a competent lucario regularly. You really have to be on point with those small windows with that character imo. Especially when it comes to spin dash. Like learning what range you have to release right when Lucario puts the tilt or fsmash out. That would be the only advice I would ever give you Espy. Which isnt really anything you dont already know. I think thats the only thing I ever see you mess up on tbh. Thats a good thing.
Dont listen to Tesh, all he wants is an "i win" strat and refuses to believe anything can change within the span of 2-3 8 minutes matches ( if you are trying to camp them out).
That being said....... someone critique these old matches from me, I would like to see what i should and shouldnt take away from these. I already have an idea for myself but lets pretend I dont and tell me what you think.
B.A.M (Sonic) vs Jebus (Diddy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DzX-FYONrw
B.A.M (Sonic) vs Nismo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZtyNtmXavg
B.A.M (Sonic) vs DSF 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXvL2_8sj6c
B.A.M (Sonic) vs DSF 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMWrRqbZJmw
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
my trash talk is almighty. not even your mountain of apathy can contain it.I'd sandbag you regardless.
Life
Smash Hero
Trash talk about trash talk? 0_o
And I stand by my statement of "don't get hit".
And I stand by my statement of "don't get hit".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD7zUyh1xdk - Espy (Sonic) vs. RedShadow (Wario) 1 & 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYqA6IpJDg - Espy (Sonic) vs. Trela (Lucario) 1-4
Some more sets from this last weekend's tournament. Got some more coming soon.
Towards the end of the sets with Trela I started relying too much on my spins. Came back to bite me in the *** during Grand Finals. Got my *** handed to me because I stopped thinking and just started spinning too much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYqA6IpJDg - Espy (Sonic) vs. Trela (Lucario) 1-4
Some more sets from this last weekend's tournament. Got some more coming soon.
Towards the end of the sets with Trela I started relying too much on my spins. Came back to bite me in the *** during Grand Finals. Got my *** handed to me because I stopped thinking and just started spinning too much.
Death Arcana
Rum is for Drinking
9:54 spincharge stage spike?
that was legit espy good stuff
that was legit espy good stuff
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
I do think you got it down tho Espy. you were punishing fsmash really well. He was having trouble spacing you out until you just went brain dead a couple times. I think you performed very well. You got it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD7zUyh1xdk - Espy (Sonic) vs. RedShadow (Wario) 1 & 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYqA6IpJDg - Espy (Sonic) vs. Trela (Lucario) 1-4
Some more sets from this last weekend's tournament. Got some more coming soon.
Towards the end of the sets with Trela I started relying too much on my spins. Came back to bite me in the *** during Grand Finals. Got my *** handed to me because I stopped thinking and just started spinning too much.
Unsound_Shinobi
Smash Apprentice
Please rate and advise
Hey guys, I'm just recently picking up Sonic again as a main, I had played him previously before I was any good at the game, but could never do anything with him. I'd really like to get some input on a few videos, these matches are all against my friend Dude who recently took first in both singles and doubles in a recent tourney. These were also recorded after one day of practice with Sonic so AT's such as the ASC-PDT and similar concepts are well beyond me. I'd like to know basically what I do wrong that is noticeable, along with things I could improve, and AT's that would help, along with advice for kill set ups and approaches.
We played 3 games, and I lost all 3, one of which I can blatently blame on my lack of skill with Sonic's special moves, i.e. trying to recover and accidently using aerial spin dash instead of spring.
Game 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmVRgNuY8o&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (DK) 1
Game 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDIHdcZy7-I&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (Ness) 1
Game 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpgDEKV14jA&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (DK) 2
Also, when commenting could you please let me know which game you are commenting on? If commenting on something at a very specific moment could you please leave an approximate time it occurred so I can go back and watch it while thinking about the advice given?
Thank you all very much, I'm desperately trying to get my Sonic tournament ready before the 28th of this month.
Hey guys, I'm just recently picking up Sonic again as a main, I had played him previously before I was any good at the game, but could never do anything with him. I'd really like to get some input on a few videos, these matches are all against my friend Dude who recently took first in both singles and doubles in a recent tourney. These were also recorded after one day of practice with Sonic so AT's such as the ASC-PDT and similar concepts are well beyond me. I'd like to know basically what I do wrong that is noticeable, along with things I could improve, and AT's that would help, along with advice for kill set ups and approaches.
We played 3 games, and I lost all 3, one of which I can blatently blame on my lack of skill with Sonic's special moves, i.e. trying to recover and accidently using aerial spin dash instead of spring.
Game 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmVRgNuY8o&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (DK) 1
Game 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDIHdcZy7-I&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (Ness) 1
Game 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpgDEKV14jA&feature=youtu.be Suicide Slushie (Sonic) Vs Dude (DK) 2
Also, when commenting could you please let me know which game you are commenting on? If commenting on something at a very specific moment could you please leave an approximate time it occurred so I can go back and watch it while thinking about the advice given?
Thank you all very much, I'm desperately trying to get my Sonic tournament ready before the 28th of this month.
Kinzer
Mammy
Well gee, isn't this self critique on-point?
...
I know I'm being condescending and quoting out of context, but I can't really sugarcoat it. I would save a lot more time by going over what I noticed in general as opposed to cherry-picking every single instance you made a mistake.
First off, you're playing Sonic. Use his natural speed to your advantage, kill that rolling habit you have. Speaking of excess, you use way too much: Homing Attack, FSmash, and USmash. Things like Jab and DSmash, I would say, were used inappropriately. There wasn't even a single time I saw you use Down-B. Maybe it's best if you kept it to a minimum now, or you might just end up using too much of that too. If you're going to play Sonic, however, you should start using him to his full potential.
I suppose what I said just now can be summarized as just you not knowing how to play Sonic and overtime you should be able to pick up on it, but for your sake I'll go over the specifics and why you should or shouldn't use certain attacks more.
Forward smash is self-explanatory. Even if it's Sonic's strongest and most damaging attack, it's mediocre at best in everything else. On top of this, the more you use it and your opponent doesn't die from it, the harder it will be for you later in the match. Start replacing this for things like Forward Tilt, SH Fair, et cetera. Save it for kills or hard punishes.
USmash has to be used in specific cases. Most of them are Anti-airs or platform pressure. You certainly shouldn't be using it as an attack to throw out. It won't kill, it doesn't do much damage, and it isn't even reliable under some circumstances.
Homing Attack is just bad. Use it mainly for recovery when your opponent can't punish you, and perhaps as a wacky mix-up, but otherwise just don't use it. The risk is medium-high to high, and the reward isn't in proportion.
DSmash is more of a punish attack. If your opponent happens to airdodge into the ground you're next to, this is a neat thing to have waiting for them. Also works as a means to punish say a roll or a spotdodge, since it lingers and covers some ground. Again, not something to use as a direct means of tacking on damage.
I'll leaver you with this. I rather you find your own ways to apply other moves, and I can't tell you the spacing of attacks: you will have to learn that on your own. Very quickly; albeit, most of these are going to be be obvious: Bair for attacking behind, Uair for above you, FTilt for quick work of opponents in front of you, and DTilt if you need a low, semi-fast poke with a little bit of reach (as far as Sonic's limbs are concerned).