The Wind-Waking Princess, Toon Zelda for Smash Ultimate

ShadowKoopa

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#1
If Link can have two younger versions of himself, why can't Zelda get one?



Why Toon Zelda?
The Zelda fans have been asking for a new character for over a decade given its status as one of Nintendo's biggest series and Toon Zelda is a viable option. While there are plenty of great choices, Toon Zelda herself can help represent the more cartoony art style the franchise bears in several of its games (Four Swords, The Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and TriForce Heroes). It's also worth mentioning Toon Zelda was considered for Brawl as evident by unused character files named "toon_zelda"

As for why I choose Toon Zelda over Tetra for this role is because Toon Zelda has appeared in more games (Four Swords, The Wind Waker, The Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks) making her more relevant than Tetra, who's only appeared in two games (The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass).

Moveset Potential

While Toon Zelda would most likely be a semi-clone of regular Zelda, a smaller, faster and floatier version of Zelda would still be appealing to some players. Besides, it's possible they do make a unique moveset for her such as the one laid out in this video by Source Gaming's NantenJex. Another option would be to base her moveset on her ghost form from Spirits Tracks since she had a large role in that game after all and Hyrule Warriors also used that for her moveset as well.


Hurdles for Inclusion
The Zelda franchise is brimming with popular requests from fans with several of them eclipsing Toon Zelda's popularity including her alter ego Tetra. The other candidates could offer more moveset potential in comparison. Also, Toon Zelda hasn't appeared in a new mainline game since Spirits Tracks which was almost a decade ago meaning relevancy isn't in her favour.

Conclusion
While her chances may be slim, I'll continue to hope one day she makes it and that you'll at least consider her as a possibility. Maybe one day Sakurai will add characters he planned to some time ago and that includes Toon Zelda. Or maybe Toon Zelda gets a big role in a new Zelda game making her more a viable candidate once more.
 
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Kirbeh

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#2
Support. Even if she were another clone, I'd be pretty happy about her inclusion. I'd prefer her to be differentiated more than TL is to Link of course, but there are a few moves that could carry over like a few normals and the Phantom which was originally hers in the first place.
 
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ShadowKoopa

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#3
Support. Even if she were another clone, I'd be pretty happy about her inclusion. I'd prefer her to be differentiated more than TL is to Link of course, but there are a few moves that could carry over like a few normals and the Phantom which was originally hers in the first place.
Yeah they would most likely share some moves but I do think it is possible she could be more unique than Toon Link is. If she were a support how do you think her Assist Trophy would work?
 
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Kirbeh

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#4
Yeah they would most likely share some moves but I do think it is possible she could be more unique than Toon Link is. If she were a support how do you think her Assist Trophy would work?
I mean, presumably she'd stun opponents with Light Arrows or become the Phantom to attack. Both being abilities that have already been incorporated into Zelda. Expanding on what she can do and taking some creative liberties works if she were to become playable, but if she were just an assist trophy, it'd feel a little weird if she used abilities she doesn't normally have access too imo.
 

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#6
I mean, presumably she'd stun opponents with Light Arrows or become the Phantom to attack. Both being abilities that have already been incorporated into Zelda. Expanding on what she can do and taking some creative liberties works if she were to become playable, but if she were just an assist trophy, it'd feel a little weird if she used abilities she doesn't normally have access too imo.
Yeah if she were an assist trophy she would use something that is associated to her. Although if she became a Phantom I think Zelda would have to get a new Down B. It might cause confusion seeing two Phantoms at once.
 

Kirbeh

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#7
Yeah if she were an assist trophy she would use something that is associated to her. Although if she became a Phantom I think Zelda would have to get a new Down B. It might cause confusion seeing two Phantoms at once.
They'd likely keep Toon Zelda's Phantom design, well, more cartoonish. They did alter its look to fit Zelda after all, so making them distinguishable from each should be fine.
 

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#8
They'd likely keep Toon Zelda's Phantom design, well, more cartoonish. They did alter its look to fit Zelda after all, so making them distinguishable from each should be fine.
True but they did replace Toon Link from Spirit Trains stage if either Link or Toon Link were present. So it is possible they would do that to prevent confusion
 

Kirbeh

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#9
True but they did replace Toon Link from Spirit Trains stage if either Link or Toon Link were present. So it is possible they would do that to prevent confusion
That'd also be a good way to go about it. Perhaps just disable Toon Zelda from spawning if a Zelda is already in battle. Either that or just give her Light Arrows that work differently from Zelda's Final Smash. I could see her's being much weaker, but having a stun effect like they did in the fights against Ganondorf in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.
 
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#10
I'd support too. Nintendo seems to have quite a fondness for her as she did get a bit of love here and there in the marketing department (New 3DS commercial, Starlette's in Puzzle Swap despite that there was already another Zelda there, her own nendroid figure and most recently, her own amiibo, a playable appearance in Hyrule Warriors as well as her upcoming Phantom armor in Breath of the Wild) I'm assuming that she's quite popular with the Japanese audience.

Due to her shorter legs, much like Toon Link, she'd most likely have Zelda's kicks replaced with more magic based attacks. I'd also like her to momentarily go into the Phantom itself very briefly for an attack, just to differentiate it a little bit from Zelda's. Perhaps make it a bit stronger since she's using her full power for the Phantom, unlike Zelda who merely summons it. As for the Phantom design itself, they will most likely give it its more cartoonier look for her, since Zelda's Phantom is a bit more proportionate than how its usually portrayed.

Also, shout out for @Scamper52596
 

ryuu seika

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#11
I can't watch the video in the first post right know because I'm at work but I do really like the idea of Toon Zelda becoming the phantom instead of summoning it. It would have the drawbacks of less range due to her size (bigger than her but scaled appropriately still) and her taking damage when it does but it would still have super armour and it wouldn't be killable anymore, negating potential cooldowns. Add to this the suggested damage buff (see above for thematic reasoning) and it could very well be its own unique move.

This does not, however, do enough to declone the rest of her. In the lead up to Smash 4, I was kinda hoping we'd get a Toon Zelda/Tetra transformation because the idea of 2 practically identical characters with completely different transformations really appealled to me for some reason. Not a possibility now, sadly.
 
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#12
In the previous Toon Zelda support thread, I had a more in depth guide on how her own Phantom transformation would work out and that she could probably also use the traits of the other three Phantom variants depending on the input she uses for it, to make her stand out a bit more from Zelda and giving her her own unique trait to separate her a little further (As well as making it a bit more in line to how it was portrayed in Spirit Tracks). However, that may be a bit too much workload for a character who'd most likely be a low priority character for Smash.

Perhaps for the Phantom Slash, she can become one briefly, giving her access to further damage buff and super armor, but would also give her more end lag and vulnerable to punishments if her attack misses. To balance that, she could probably cancel the Phantom sooner by destroying it, but on the drawback that she's on cooldown and can't reuse that attack again for a short while (Much like what happens with Zelda when someone destroys her Phantom Slash.)
 
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Luminario

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#13
Using the rods for attacks is a genius idea I would never have thought of. It's a fantastic way to separate both the Zeldas.
I think that the phantom armour should be more prominent for Toon Zelda's moveset though, seeing as Spirit Tracks is Zelda's first playable appearance in a main Zelda game (barring Wand of Gamelon of course). I like the idea of the pseudo-transformation into the phantom armour others have brought up in here already.
 

Diddy Kong

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#14
B moves all the same as Zelda's.

Replace Forward Air and Back Air, maybe Down Smash with different attacks and boom, good enough for a clone character. Different stats due to different weight and height (which I imagine would help a lot), maybe a little faster even? I'd buy it. She'd probably, like the case with Link, be the 'better Zelda', which is better than having solo disfunctional Zelda who's still balanced as if Sheik was part of her moveset.

The Zelda roster is so ****, I'd take this just to have something.

They probably won't include Impa as a Sheik semi-clone or clone if there isn't a Zelda clone present so... :awesome:
 

ryuu seika

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#15
Eh, might as well just replace Sheik with Impa at this point. Impa's actually relevant these days.

As for Toon Zelda, I'm still liking the "same specials, different implementation" approach but I don't know the series intimately enough to suggest alternate versions of the goddess powers myself.
 
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#18
The thing I don't like about Zelda (and what probably hampers her most) is her slow speed. Therefore, I agree Toon Zelda would make a great addition to the cast as a fast clone of Zelda. Tier lists have shown that faster clones are usually higher placed (TL to Link, Falcon to Ganon, Mario to Doc, etc.) so she could possibly be a viable Zelda. My question is this: if we got toon zelda, then what about... toon sheik? ... yeah I guess probably not, since she'd be wayyy too fast.
 
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#19
My question is this: if we got toon zelda, then what about... toon sheik? ... yeah I guess probably not, since she'd be wayyy too fast.
Toon Sheik would have probably been a thing had transformation's remained. Much like what was planned in Brawl, but since that's no more, I don't see any reason why Sakurai would consider including Toon Sheik anymore, If he still wishes to include a Sheik clone/semi clone, he'd most likely opt for Impa.

Though I guess there is reason to speculate that the reason Toon Zelda got scrapped back in Brawl had probably something to do with Toon Sheik. Non existence in canon Zelda's aside (If that where the case, he probably wouldn't even plan her in the first place), Sakurai mentioned that the reason Toon Link's kicks where replaced with additional sword slashes where due to his stubbier legs, if that's the case then chances are high that the same applied to Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik too. Zelda herself has more kick based attacks than Link, but that would have probably been doable to replace that with additional magic attacks for Toon Zelda. Sheik on the other hand, doesn't only have more kick based attacks than either Zelda or Link, but also has more acrobatic based animations too, which would probably look more awkward for a Toon Sheik. Which would most likely be more trouble than it is worth for Sakurai to change up, especially for a character who canonically doesn't exist and on a tight time schedule for a low priority character who Sakurai most likely just did solely to include Toon Zelda.

That's just speculation on my part though, mind. But I think that's most probably what went down during Brawl in regards to Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#20
The thing I don't like about Zelda (and what probably hampers her most) is her slow speed. Therefore, I agree Toon Zelda would make a great addition to the cast as a fast clone of Zelda. Tier lists have shown that faster clones are usually higher placed (TL to Link, Falcon to Ganon, Mario to Doc, etc.) so she could possibly be a viable Zelda. My question is this: if we got toon zelda, then what about... toon sheik? ... yeah I guess probably not, since she'd be wayyy too fast.
Toon Sheik doesn't exists. So no Toon Sheik in Smash. This terrible idea has been around for far too long. Impa is anything you'd search for in a "Toon Sheik". She could be a slower, more powerful Sheik clone or semi-clone. Still, making her fit with the rest of the Zelda cast might prove difficult.
 

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#22
Toon Zelda should have been in Smash already. Toon Zelda, Tetra, Dixie Kong, and Plusle & Minun would have been fun to play in Brawl or SSB4.

I can't believe Sakurai planned to add them in Brawl and then scrapped them from Brawl and didn't even bother to put them in SSB4 at all. Scrapping them from SSB4 would probably give me some hope that Sakurai still wants to add them in Smash eventually.

When I saw that Sakurai added Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy back to SSB4 after scrapping them from Brawl, I had hoped that Sakurai would add Toon Zelda, Tetra, Dixie Kong, and Plusle & Minun to SSB4 as a way to make up for scrapping them from Brawl.
 
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#23
Toon Zelda should have been in Smash already. Toon Zelda, Tetra, Dixie Kong, and Plusle & Minun would have been fun to play in Brawl or SSB4.

I can't believe Sakurai planned to add them in Brawl and then scrapped them from Brawl and didn't even bother to put them in SSB4 at all. Scrapping them from SSB4 would probably give me some hope that Sakurai still wants to add them in Smash eventually.

When I saw that Sakurai added Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy back to SSB4 after scrapping them from Brawl, I had hoped that Sakurai would add Toon Zelda, Tetra, Dixie Kong, and Plusle & Minun to SSB4 as a way to make up for scrapping them from Brawl.
Well Sakurai did state once that he had more characters planned, but couldn't include them due to time restraints again, with Bowser Jr almost being one of them too, (As well as evidence being there in the game's code that a Rythm Heaven character may have also been planned) So who knows, perhaps some of the planned cut Brawl characters may have been among them too, I mean, Sakurai is not one to just let old idea's go if they didn't work out or didn't have the chance to include in previous entries.
 

Diddy Kong

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#24
Having Tetra in place of "Toon Sheik" would have been the logical option, IMO, but I'm totally cool with losing the transformations.
With that considered, they wouldn't need both Tetra and Toon Zelda. So most likely they would opt for Tetra for a sort of original moveset, and Toon Zelda as a pure clone.

Was also bothered with the absense of the Forbidden 7. Still seems weird, then again, there's quite a lot of characters that where scrapped from earlier games that never made it in, or where even considered at all anymore.
 

Kirbeh

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#26
With that considered, they wouldn't need both Tetra and Toon Zelda. So most likely they would opt for Tetra for a sort of original moveset, and Toon Zelda as a pure clone.

Was also bothered with the absense of the Forbidden 7. Still seems weird, then again, there's quite a lot of characters that where scrapped from earlier games that never made it in, or where even considered at all anymore.
I'm not really too bothered about their absence. Many planned and considered characters end up not making the final cut, and circumstances change over time, so unless the character in question is a big one then it's unfortunate but necessary to pass on others as priorities change.

-:4drmario: got a lucky break as an easy last minute addition.
-:4mewtwo: and :4feroy:made it back eventually thanks to DLC.

The above 3 likely also held priority due to being veterans. As for the cut newcomers:

-Dixie was scrapped after the tag team idea fell through, and while she seems like a more likely contender now that she's come back in Tropical Freeze, I think it's understandable that she wasn't planned again for Smash For given that DK had only just recently been revitalized with Returns which only featured DK and Diddy. So long as DKC doesn't go on too long of a hiatus again and Dixie remains as one of the playable characters (which I think she more than likely will) then I think she has pretty good odds of finally getting in for the next game.

-Given that :4tlink:himself was a last minute addition in Brawl I don't think it's too surprising that we didn't get Toon Zelda & Toon Sheik given that they were short on time. Given that the Toon styled games are still going, I think there's a chance for Toon Zelda in the future so long as they don't suddenly drop Cel-da games for some reason.

-I can't really say anything on pra_mai given that we still don't even know who they were. Plusle and Minun do seem like a decent guess, but we basically have nothing to go off of aside from the file name so I'm not going to assume that it was meant to be them.

Going back on topic though, what if they dropped the Light Arrows as :4zelda:'s Final Smash and gave it both her and Toon Zelda as Neutral B. Nayru's Love would be moved to Zelda's Down B, and the Phantom would become unique to Toon Zelda.
The Light Arrows would function like hybrids of the many bow and paralyzing projectiles already in the game. The bow could be charged increasing the power and distance that the arrows would fly. Opponents hit would be paralyzed for a brief period as we see in the actual Zelda games during battles against Ganondorf like in Twilight Princess.

That of course begs the question of what they'd get for Final Smashes.

For Toon Zelda I thought that having her enter the Phantom and be able to attack using it as a body for a short period could work as a nice nod to how it actually works in Spirit Tracks, but I've been drawing a blank on what to give to Zelda.
 

ryuu seika

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#27
Going back on topic though, what if they dropped the Light Arrows as :4zelda:'s Final Smash and gave it both her and Toon Zelda as Neutral B. Nayru's Love would be moved to Zelda's Down B, and the Phantom would become unique to Toon Zelda.
The Light Arrows would function like hybrids of the many bow and paralyzing projectiles already in the game. The bow could be charged increasing the power and distance that the arrows would fly. Opponents hit would be paralyzed for a brief period as we see in the actual Zelda games during battles against Ganondorf like in Twilight Princess.
That of course begs the question of what they'd get for Final Smashes.
For Toon Zelda I thought that having her enter the Phantom and be able to attack using it as a body for a short period could work as a nice nod to how it actually works in Spirit Tracks, but I've been drawing a blank on what to give to Zelda.
Way to make Kirby less interesting :p.

It would make sense though, what with light arrows being her power given to link in OoT and Nayru's love being a reflector.

What I'm not sure about is relegating Toon Zelda's most defining trait move to an FS that many players won't use.
 
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Kirbeh

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#28
Way to make Kirby less interesting :p.

It would make sense though, what with light arrows being her power given to link in OoT and Nayru's love being a reflector.

What I'm not sure about is relegating Toon Zelda's most defining trait move to an FS that many players won't use.
Oh no, it's not meant to just be her FS. It'd be her Down B in the same way it currently works for Zelda, but for her FS she'd actually possess it like in Spirit Tracks and have one or two powerful attacks mapped to A and B similar to Yoshi Dragon and Mega Charizard X. It'd be a transformation FS.
 
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#29
Basically like Diddy Kong, Peanut Pop Gun and Rocket Barrel as moves, but both for a Final Smash.

Fully using the Phantom sounds like a good idea for Toon Zelda's Final Smash (Or at least, about as much as the likes of Yoshi and Charizard use theirs). Zelda can probably use that magic light thing she used at the end of games like Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild.
 
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#30
Toon Zelda's specials should be different from Zelda's even if they share the same normal moves.

Zelda
B: Light Arrow
Side+B: Din's Fire
Up+B: Farore's Wind
Down+B: Nayru's Love
Final Smash: Rapier (she slashes her enemies Hyrule Warriors style with her rapier)

Toon Zelda
B: Light Arrow
Side+B: Magic Armor (like Nayru's Love but Toon Zelda can still move)
Up+B: Ballad of Gales (like Farore's Wind but with a tornado)
Down+B: Phantom (except this time it can be charged and stored much like Samus's Charge Shot)
Final Smash: Phantom (the Phantom slashes the enemies Hyrule Warriors style)
 
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#32
Oh yeah, I remember I have these old renders of my attempt at making a Smash Wii U styled Toon Zelda based off how Toon Link was done.
I thought you guys might like to see those since I don't think I've shown them off here yet.



I should probably get back to her and fix her up (Since I've come a long way since then) and probably release her for public use.
 
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Krysco

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#33
Wow, not even a full page. Guess it makes sense since Toon Zelda wouldn't entirely be a new character since she'd just be Zelda again. Anyways, she has my support since WW is my favourite game in the series and I equally love the TP Zelda design and the WW Zelda design.
 

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#36
I wouldn't mind this as a way of keeping things like Phantom Slash (but storable Sakurai pls) and the teleport from her curent moveset if her BotW version does infact come with a new moveset. I'm not going to pretend to be super attached to all of it (even if she was my main) because lets be real it's a generally awful moveset, but it would be nice to keep parts of it.
 
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#37
I'd be down with giving Zelda a new BotW inspired moveset and giving her Smash 4 moveset to Toon Zelda. That way, Phantom Slash would make a lot more sense as a move. Plus, TZ would likely be faster and more mobile, so Sm4sh Zelda's moveset might function a little better on her, especially if they make adjustments to it (like not going into special fall after using Din's, Phantom being storable, less landing lag from aerials).

Toon Zelda was one of my favorite HW characters, and she's one of the few clone ideas I support.
 
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#38
One of Zelda's issues was that she was too slow to properly take advantage of her moveset, especially since they where generally more powerful attacks. If she traded in some of that with more agility (As well as less sweet spot requiring aerials) it may have worked out a little better for her.

I guess if Zelda gets some changes to reflect her BotW appearance, they could use Toon Zelda to adopt her old playstyle with the necessary adjustments to make them more useful for her, much like what they did for Toon Link. I think she's be very fun to play as.
 
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