The Wario Matchup Thread - Use this thread to talk about any Wario MU!

Sari

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#1
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This thread will be used to talk about Wario's various matchups in Smash Bros. Ultimate. Each week or so I'll update this thread to talk about one or two characters. For each character of the week you may use this thread for the following:
  • Talk about how you think Wario fares when fighting the character(s) of the week in a 1v1.
    • Feel free to also post high level gameplay videos to support your arguments.
  • You may also use this thread to ask for help when dealing with the specific characters.
    • Non-Wario mains are also free to ask how to deal with Wario when their main is currently being discussed.
  • Optional: if you're confident in how well Wario does with the specific matchup then you can assign a ratio rating. For example, a 50:50 rating means the MU is fairly even while a 55:45 rating means it is slightly in Wario's favor.
  • What the ratio ratings mean:
    • 20:80 - Almost impossible for Wario to win
    • 30:70 - Heavily in opponent's favor
    • 40:60 - In opponent's favor
    • 45:55 - Slightly in opponent's favor
    • 50:50 - MU is even (no advantages on either side)
    • 55:45 - Slightly in Wario's favor
    • 60:40 - In Wario's favor
    • 70:30 - Heavily in Wario's favor
    • 80:20 - Almost impossible for the opponent to win
  • The OP will be updated with specific MU ratings depending on how everyone feels about the MU's, as well as how strongly they provide their arguments. Keep in mind that this thread is mainly serving to give a rough estimate on how Wario does with each MU.

Previous ratings:

If you have any objections to these ratings feel free to post your thoughts on them regardless of who is being rated.

:ultmario: - 55:45
:ultluigi:
- 55:45
:ultjigglypuff: - 65:35
:ultdoc:
- 60:40
:ultganondorf:
- 60:40
:ultroy: - 45:55
:ultchrom: - 45:55
:ultlittlemac: - 70:30
:ultinkling: - 55:45
:ultridley:
- 60:40
:ultkrool:
- 70:30
:ultisabelle: - 60:40
:ultpiranha:
- 55:45


---------------------------------------

To start things off we will discuss two fairly popular characters in Ultimate: :ultmario: and :ultinkling:. Discuss how Wario does in either one of these matchups.
 
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Wunderwaft

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#2
:ultinkling:
This is a matchup that Wario should play defensively, rely on shielding and your OOS options. Jump a lot and make sure to control a good space between your opponent and you. You can afford to this because you have great aerials and aerial movement. The roller can be mitigated by shielding/jumping and punishing accordingly. For stages, Wario should never fight Inkling on Final Destination, he needs a stage with platformers to catch some breath. Overall, I can see the matchup slightly in Wario's favor, mainly because Inkling struggles to kill Wario outside of the roller.
55:45

:ultmario:
On the opposite spectrum, here's a character whose strategy is the complete opposite. Mario will usually look for grabs and deal some pain, so for this matchup it's not recommended to shield a lot, especially since Mario has good shield pressuring with his aerials and fireballs. You're gonna have to be more aggressive here and bait and punish. And for the stage, avoid Battlefield like the plague because Mario can do his ladder combo and knock you out. With that said, I find this matchup to be even. Both characters can keep up with each other and both don't have the best approach options, so you're gonna be twiddling in neutral a lot until someone messes up.
50:50
 
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#3
Yoshi
This matchup tends to be very defensive since Yoshi players tend to always play super aggressive. watch out for fairs off stage as well as getting stuck in uptilt combos. As wario spacing is key to winning this match up whoever spaces better wins. Yoshi has better off stage so recovering high can work wonders. Waft is also key in this match up because yoshi is very hard to kill since his weight and edge guarding him is hard and risky. One more thing is once yoshi shields they always neutral air out of shield since its so fast so get ur pressure then punish the nair. Overall I would say since we have waft and they don't we take this matchup 55:45

Ness
This to me is a very bad matchup for wario. None of are moves beat that dumb fair that ness has so its extremely hard to get in. I have actually had a hard time edgeguarding ness as well when they change up there timing which I thought would be are big advantage. What you need to do vs ness is play super defensive and bait out moves and then hit a combo of punish. This matchup is very much if you cant hit your punishes than ness will win. Ness just seems to live longer then he should and his uair downair grab kill us way earlier then it should. I would say this is one of are worst match ups
30:70
 
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#4
I do one more that I know pretty well.
Greninja.
This match up I would say we can play pretty aggressive. Wario has a real easy time getting in a setting up combos and can kill pretty easily if you get a few reads. Greninja's best traits vs us is the fact that he can go way out there and edgeguard so be careful when coming back to stage cause they will go way farther out than you think.. You can also shield on greninja pretty much whenever you want because his grab sucks and his out of shield stuff suck. Other then that I would say Wario has a fairly easy time in this match up due to weight, waft, height, and playstyle of the character.
60:40
 

Sari

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#5
I do one more that I know pretty well.
Greninja.
This match up I would say we can play pretty aggressive. Wario has a real easy time getting in a setting up combos and can kill pretty easily if you get a few reads. Greninja's best traits vs us is the fact that he can go way out there and edgeguard so be careful when coming back to stage cause they will go way farther out than you think.. You can also shield on greninja pretty much whenever you want because his grab sucks and his out of shield stuff suck. Other then that I would say Wario has a fairly easy time in this match up due to weight, waft, height, and playstyle of the character.
60:40
We're mainly discussing the Mario and Inkling MU right now though I'll take your points on those other MU's into account.
 
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#7
Haha but I think warios got good match ups on both simply because we have waft and they do not just stay away from Mario's uair combos and inklings edge guard game and u should be able to stall them out with half wafts and full waft combos over ur own. I tend to have a harder time with inkling because inkling is a better character then Mario Imo. But I would say 55:45 both match ups
 
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MERPIS

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#8
Oh boy I need a LOT of help against mario and doc, for some reason with this character I cant do anything without being antiaired or punished with a grab or a bair or something, also pills are hell against me cause I feel like I cant do anything against either fireballs or pills
 

Wunderwaft

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#9
Oh boy I need a LOT of help against mario and doc, for some reason with this character I cant do anything without being antiaired or punished with a grab or a bair or something, also pills are hell against me cause I feel like I cant do anything against either fireballs or pills
Mario is a tough cookie to handle. Don't attempt to rush him down, what you should be doing is pressuring him and keeping him on the defense. Mario has a really good combo game and his pressuring is dangerous. What you should be doing is to try and be aggressive enough so he doesn't gain enough momentum to stomp you hard. One thing I want to mention is that Mario will almost always look for grabs, so keep an eye on that and don't let him grab you, because if he does then his momentum will start growing and soon you'll find yourself in big trouble.
 

MERPIS

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#10
Mario is a tough cookie to handle. Don't attempt to rush him down, what you should be doing is pressuring him and keeping him on the defense. Mario has a really good combo game and his pressuring is dangerous. What you should be doing is to try and be aggressive enough so he doesn't gain enough momentum to stomp you hard. One thing I want to mention is that Mario will almost always look for grabs, so keep an eye on that and don't let him grab you, because if he does then his momentum will start growing and soon you'll find yourself in big trouble.
How do I keep on the defense as wario
 

Wunderwaft

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#11
How do I keep on the defense as wario
Whiff out an aerial and back off, if Mario messes up then punish him hard and combo him into a disadvantage state. That will be your tactic for this fight, and most other fights. Bait and punish. Against Mario you can't afford to screw up, so you will have to always keep pressuring him and poking him with different attacks. Don't be too predictable with your approaches, you will have to sometimes mix-up with chomp or other different attacks that you don't use much.
 

Sari

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#12
So I recently finished with my finals so I'll be updating this thread more often.

I agree with Wunderwaft Wunderwaft that the :ultmario: MU is 50:50 though I'm still unsure about :ultinkling:. I do think she can give Wario trouble but not to the point where it'd be anything worse than 50:50. I'll list her the MU in the OP as 55:45 in Wario's favor though since I don't have much experience with the MU.

It seems like the character subforums of SmashBoards have been inactive for a while now so I suppose I'll start doing 3 characters at a time now to make things more interesting.

With that said, rate the Wario matchups with :ultdoc:, :ultluigi:, and :ultganondorf:.
 

Wunderwaft

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#13
:ultdoc:
Same as the Mario match-up except less obnoxious. Get him off stage and he's dead. Doc's recovery is completely awful and makes edge guarding him quite easy. You still need to be wary of his grabs like Mario, but if you're good at the Mario matchup then you should know what to do with Doc. Doc's options are limited compared to Mario, but he can still be a pain. Regardless I still find this matchup in Wario's favor overall.
60:40

:ultluigi:
Luigi is a complete combo monster, you thought Mario was bad? If Luigi gets one grab then you will be brought to the brink of death. Avoid his grabs and try your best to stay out of his poltergeist range. Besides that Luigi can be gimped while he's recovering. Luigi's recovery sucks and his off stage presence is awful just like Doc. The way to tackle this matchup is by camping Luigi and never allowing him to grab you. If he's off stage then go ahead and gimp him.
55:45

:ultganondorf:
Ganondorf is complete combo food for Wario, his slow speed and large size makes him easy to combo into many different moves. However, Ganon hits hard, very hard. You're gonna have to respect some of his moves and back off. If Ganondorf is in a disadvantage state then keep the momentum going and let loose on him. Ganondorf doesn't have good approach options, so you should be able to dominate him in neutral if you know what you're doing.
60:40
 

Sari

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#14
:ultdoc:

Doc is my secondary so I can lend a bit of my thoughts on him. He has gotten a ton of improvements in Ultimate, the most notable of them being that pills are harder to deal with since they are bigger and down-B killing really early (it can kill as early as 60% depending on where you are). Pills are great for getting close to Wario as they can limit Wario's aerial options while Doc has some really good d-throw combos that can make him a nuisance up close. That said though his slow mobility and weak recovery still hold him back a lot; if Doc gets knocked far off-stage he's usually forced to use tornado to recover which is really easy to punish. In addition to those downsides, Wario also received a ton of buffs as well which arguably benefits him more than Doc when fighting in neutral.

Overall I'm gonna have to say it's 60:40 in :ultwario:'s favor.

Abstaining on the other two since I don't have enough MU experience with them.
 
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#15
Three characters I actually know a lot about. I don't play Wario but I do play the other three.

  • :ultwario: vs :ultganondorf: is pretty bad for Ganon for several reasons. Wario can gimp Ganon pretty easily, Wario can live until pretty high percents against Ganon because of his weight and recovery, Ganon is slower than Wario so Wario can run away and approach Ganon easier than Ganon can to Wario. Wario can also juggle Ganon with up-tilts and up-airs. However, Ganon still is Ganon and the match may unexpectedly turn in his favor if you land a n-air or get an early kill so you have to play patiently. Overall, I'd say 65:35 in Wario's favor.
  • :ultwario: vs :ultdoc: is actually pretty interesting. A lot of the same things apply here from the Ganon matchup (gimps, how long Wario lives, Wario's superior speed, etc.) but Dr. Mario has some things here that are better than Ganondorf. Dr. Mario's landing options are better so landing isn't nearly as bad of a problem for Doc. Dr. Mario's frame data is actually just as good (and probably better) than Wario's and Dr. Mario has more kill power and damage output too so if you trade hits with Doc, you won't likely benefit as much as him. Tornado actually can mess with Wario's recovery pretty well so recovering is also going to be harder here than in the Ganon matchup. Dr. Mario also has one of the best kill throws in the game and if he grabs Wario near the ledge at 100%, Wario isn't coming back. Speaking of grabs, Dr. Mario (like Wario) has a combo throw. Finally, Wario lacks a projectile and Dr. Mario's pill is a great projectile to throw out while approaching and it puts Wario into an unfavorable position if it hits. I'd say this is either 55:45 (or 50:50 ) in Wario's favor (or even).
  • :ultwario: vs :ultluigi: is still kind of similar to these other matchups in Wario can edgeguard, outlive, and outrun the opponent. Luigi can throw out fireball similarly to Dr. Mario's pills, but it isn't nearly as effective. However, Luigi can edgeguard Wario's recovery a bit better than Dr. Mario and Ganondorf due to being able to put himself farther offstage than the other two without risking his stock. Also, Wario is combo food for Luigi, even more so than for Dr. Mario and since Wario lacks range, Wario will often have to fight Luigi up close meaning that Luigi will have a higher chance of landing a grab. In general, Wario isn't too hard to combo or juggle and those are two things Luigi does great at. This matchup I'd say is 55:45 in Wario's favor.
So IMO, Dr. Mario does the best of these three characters.
 
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MangoPeachey

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#16
For Luigi I would say it's all about how much experience the Wario has vs Luigi. If the Wario has never fought against Luigi then they'll get steamrolled. If the Wario does have experience then he can camp Luigi out and charge waft. You have to play ultra lame against Luigi which would make it a matchup you should practice.

I honestly think the matchup goes pretty even since they both have to fight up close and have nice comboes
 
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Sari

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#17
Thanks to everyone for their input! From what I'm getting the MU's seem to be as follows:

:ultdoc:: 60:40 in Wario's favor
:ultluigi:: 55:45 in Wario's favor
:ultganondorf:: 60:40 in Wario's favor

----------------

Alright, let's proceed with the next characters to rate: :ultyoshi:,:ultmewtwo:, and :ultridley:
 

Wunderwaft

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#18
I don't have much experience with :ultyoshi: and :ultmewtwo: so I can't give a fair assessment on them. I do play :ultridley: heavily so at least I can talk about him.

:ultridley:
Ridley's hurtbox is big which means he's combo food for Wario. If you get in deep you'll hurt him and deal a good amount of damage percentage. However, Ridley can outrange Wario and his moves and as a result he can keep Wario away from him, nair and f-tilt come to mind. Ridley's disadvantage state is quite awful, which makes Wario's juggling combos quite potent on him. Edgeguarding Ridley is a bit more difficult since his up-b is a giant flying hitbox, the key is to hit him before he begins the move or hit him during the startup, and if Ridley used all his jumps before getting hit then that's a dead Ridley. Despite Ridley's negatives I still believe he shouldn't be trifled with. Ridley's damage output is still very good. And Wario will find difficulty approaching Ridley since some of Ridley's moves can outrange Wario. Overall, this matchup is leaning towards Wario's favor. Wario still has the advantage over Ridley since he can combo him into oblivion, and Ridley will find trouble dealing with Wario's aerial momentum speed and strength.

60:40

Also is it just me or do the Cractyls in the OP image resemble Ridley?
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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#19
Mewtwo is alot like Ness in that he can anti-air use with multihits very easily with NAir and getting grabbed by him is very dangerous. Also doesn't help he can kill us with his FAir and his tail is basically a sword. Mewtwo in this matchup will probably use more shorthop Shadow Balls in this matchup to avoid giving us the chance to just eat them. It's only because of Mewtwo's light weight and tall figure that he'll die to half Waft combos at like 50% otherwise this wouldn't be too good.

I'd say 40:60 Mewto's favor.

Ridley is in the same boat as Ganondorf in that you can outlive him pretty easily, he gets comboed into Waft easily and we control air space better than him. You still need to respect his longer range and anti-airs with NAir and USmash. Don't bother trying to challenge the UpB with anything except maybe a walk off falling bike Waft. Also Chomp grab clashes with Space Pirate rush and they love to do that off the edge of the stage to get back on.

60:40 Wario's favor

As for Yoshi, I play a ton on both sides, so I have a fairly good idea of how it works. Both characters can combo each other super hard but all of Yoshi's options are faster and stronger. Wario has to be extremely careful when Yoshi is below him with how strong UAir is. Wario is going to have a hard time with Yoshi above him because of falling UAir, DAir, DownB, B-reversed neutral B, etc. All of Yoshi's aerials are kill moves especially NAir, so don't get too close if you're at a high percent. I'd say Wario has to play campy and lame here and look for windows to punish to get it even because the longer you're alive against Yoshi, the sooner you get Waft advantage.

50:50
 
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Sari

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#20
I think Ridley is also 60:40 in Wario's favor. I also think DrCoeloCephalo DrCoeloCephalo may be right with the other matchups though we may have to talk about them again sometime in the future since there hasn't been much discussion on them. For now I'll add the Ridley rating to the OP.

New rating time: rate the MU's with :ultdk:, :ultlittlemac:, and :ultisabelle:.
 

Wunderwaft

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#21
:ultdk:
DK can be pretty scary since he can easily out range us with his two big arms. He's basically a swordie since his arms are disjointed hitboxes. His u-tilt is an anti-air that can easily shut down approaches from above, and his f-tilt is a big nope to any approach from the ground. Approaching this match-up is the same as approaching Lucina or any other swordie, you'll have to wait for them to whiff an attack and get your chance. Not all is hopeless however, DK has an abysmal disadvantage state, if he's above Wario then he's fresh combo food. Wario needs to be very patient in this fight, he has to respect a lot of DK's moves and bait him into whiffs.

I'd probably say this match up is even-ish so 50:50


:ultlittlemac:
Little Mac can't compete with Wario. He gets stuffed out by Wario's aerials and he's extremely easy to edgeguard. You still have to respect his ground game, he's very fast and his armor can get him through hell. But you shouldn't play Little Mac's game, force him to play your game. What I mean by that is to get him off stage and gimp him. Always ban FD and pick a stage that you can control easily with platformers. Don't rush him down, that's a very grave mistake that can get you killed. Wait patiently and punish him when he misses. If he spams Smash attacks then back off and analyze his movements. You shouldn't struggle with this match up if you know what you're doing.

70:30

:ultisabelle:
Never use your bike besides recovering, Isabelle can pocket Wario's bike and cripple his recovering ability. If it's on the stage then immediately destroy it, eat it, or throw it off stage. Isabelle can try to camp Wario, but Wario can play along the camping game as well and he benefits from it since it adds to the waft timer. Attempting to edgeguard Isabelle can be tricky since she can completely switch the situation if she catches you with her fishing rod, the trick is to wait for her to use her balloons and then fall down with a dair. Isabelle is light and floaty, which doesn't bode well for her since that means she's very vulnerable in her disadvantage state. Keep a close eye on the mine and don't let her pressure you into the ledge and you should be able to take this.

55:45
 

Sari

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#22
Abstaining on :ultdk: since I don't have enough experience with him.

:ultlittlemac:

We all know Little Mac's gist: amazing on the ground, awful in the air. Although Mac has gotten some recovery buffs (mainly due to the general change in air dodging), it is still one of the worst in the game. One nerf that Mac got in Ultimate is that he can also only use jolt haymaker once in the air, so if you hit him with something like f-air while he's using it to recover he is basically dead. His ground game has gotten some buffs, though thanks to Wario's charging waft Mac is forced to approach Wario which allows for you to capitalize on Mac's mistakes. Stages with platforms make it even harder for Mac as the platforms give Wario more places to camp and force Mac to approach him from.

Overall while this MU isn't as braindead as it was in SSB4 (due to Mac's recovery being way worse in that game), it is still an easy MU for Wario.

70:30 in Wario's favor

:ultisabelle:

Isabelle is my 4th most used character in Ultimate (the first 3 being Wario, Dr. Mairo, and Chrom). I love using Isabelle for fun but to put it bluntly she is really bad in her current state. She has almost no good kill moves and her light weight means she can get killed really early. Fishing rod can be great for edge-guarding, but Wario's recovery is so good that it's almost worthless for this MU. Lloid trap is easy to avoid given both how Wario relies on air-game and how unreliable Lloid can be when auto-activating. Unlike Villager who as built more around offense, Isabelle's kit is more for camping thanks to both fishing rod and Lloid. The thing is with Wario, Isabelle is forced to approach him since he'll just keep building up waft so her camping shenanigans aren't that useful here. Slingshot can be annoying at times though it can be countered fairly easily with f-air and proper shielding.

The only really bad thing about this MU is that Isabelle can pocket the bike which in turn can mess up Wario's recovery. However considering that Wario isn't as reliant on his bike as he was in SSB4 (where Wario needed bike tossing gimmicks to stay relevant), the bike pocket downside is nowhere near as bad as it was in SSB4.

60:40 in Wario's favor
 

Sari

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#23
Damn nearly two months without any other responses. Let's try something different by rating characters of a certain type of style that Wario usually has trouble with: swords.

Rate the Wario matchups with :ultroy:, :ultchrom:, and :ultike:.
 
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#24
I don't know too much about the Roy/Chrom matchup but I can say that they are a lot faster than Wario on the ground and they have some decent disjoints that outrange most of Wario's attacks. They also can edgeguard Wario well which is nice.

However, Wario still has some good tools such as his strong edgeguarding and juggling.

Wario's combos on Roy/Chrom are about as good as Roy/Chrom's combos on Wario due to Roy/Chrom having more/better combo moves overall while Wario's moves combo very well on fast fallers in general.

Overall, I'd say maybe slightly winning for Roy/Chrom (55:45?) but it's not a bad matchup for either character.
 

Wunderwaft

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#26
Oh I almost forgot about this thread. Anyways in regards to a previous score I gave to DK I changed my mind since then and I believe Wario wins the match-up, after more experience I think DK struggles against the match-up far more than Wario would. DK's disadvantage state is really bad and he's really easy to edgeguard. If I would rerate the match-up then I'd give the ranking 60:40 in Wario's favor.

-----------------------------
I only have small experience against :ultroy: so I'll be talking about him. Roy is a touch cookie to handle. He's a swordie who can outrange Wario. Roy is fast, can juggle Wario, and is generally pretty scary up close. It's not really that of a hard match-up though, it's doable for Wario if you have experience against Roy and his usual gameplan. Just don't over-extend too much against Roy. As for the ranking, I agree about it being 55:45 for Roy, it's not exactly a bad match-up but it's one that will be a challenge.
 
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Sari

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#27
Thanks for the input guys. :ultroy:/:ultchrom: definitely seems like 55:45 in their favor. As for :ultike: I'm still not sure so we can get back to him at another time (though regardless I don't think either character dominates the other).

Let's move on to some more goofier characters: rate the matchups with :ultjigglypuff:, :ultkrool:, and :ultpiranha:.
 

Wunderwaft

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#28
abstaining on :ultjigglypuff:

:ultkrool:
K. Rool has the odds stacked against him in this match-up. He's slow in the ground and in the air, he's combo food, and his recovery is predictable and linear. He has two projectiles that have a ton of lag which leaves him open for Wario. If you know K. Rool's tricks then you shouldn't be having much trouble, as there is nothing K. Rool can do to pressure Wario and his fast mobility.

70:30 in Wario's favor


:ultpiranha:
PP is a weird character. It's an enigma that on paper should be a problem for Wario yet it faces trouble because of it's terrible frame data. Ptooie is great for winning trades and for preventing Wario from jumping around like he usually does, it deals good damage and it limits Wario's movement. PP still has awful aerials and a bad disadvantage state though. The best showcase for this match-up is Brood vs Abadango as they are two really good players. I don't think this is a match where Wario steamrolls through PP since the plant does have tricks that makes this match-up volatile.

55:45 in Wario's favor
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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#29
Now THESE are matchups I'm pretty familiar with.

:ultjigglypuff:
It's no exaggeration to say Jigglypuff is Wario but worse. All the options and playstyle are similar but ours are just better. Outside of specific Rest combos, BAir reads and Smash attacks, Jigglypuff can't kill Wario. FAir can trade with Jigglypuff's aerials and Wario can afford those trade but you mainly want to catch her after her aerials. Throwing Bike can catch Jigglypuff on high or low recovery in addition to DAir or 2-framing with FTilt while she can do very little to catch ours. She has to commit to going offstage and trying to trade or beat out out Bike if Wario is mid height offstage. Jigglypuff can try to aerial camp but she usually can't afford that while Wario can. Jigglypuff has to work harder for this matchup to be even.

65:35 Wario's favor

:ultkrool:
Same issues with other heavyweights. Wario outspeeds him, combos him hard, outlives alot of his strong attacks and he's a big Waft target. Projectiles are supper laggy and easy to B-Reverse Chomp (as to avoid getting hit by the crown's return). If you're going to challenge his recovery, stick to Bikes and maybe offstage BAir or B-Reverse Chomps if anything. The propeller prevents FTilt on edge.

70:30 Wario's favor

:ultpiranha:
This character's only good close range tool against Wario is the frame 2 Jab so if you expect that, shield it. NeutralB is still a big threatening problem tho. Try to intercept low recovering UpB with DAir. The character is a fast faller so your combos will be different here. Take note in that.

55:45 Wario's favor
 

Sari

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#30
You guys really hit the nail on the head with those characters since that is exactly how I feel about them as well. I think it's safe for us to move on now.

Alright let's rate one of the more tougher MU's Wario has: :ultsquirtle:, :ultivysaur:, :ultcharizard:, and :ultpokemontrainer: as a whole.
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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#31
My experience on :ultpokemontrainer: is kinda limited but I'll do my best.

For more general stuff, go for Chomp, UTilt, DAir or NAir if you predict a DownB to catch them with a lasting hitbox.

:ultsquirtle:
I've learned from watching Glutonny that Wario ACTUALLY outranges Squirtle's aerials. So you can safely shorthop fastfall FAir and NAir to bait out Squirtle's options and Squirtle can do very little to challenge it, let alone go for a grab for their easy 50% combos. Be careful edgeguarding because of UpB.

:ultivysaur:
This one is actually a bit more of a problem. Longer range, powerful aerials and a projectile. Avoid taking this matchup to Battlefield and Pokemon Stadium 2 if you can to avoid UAir juggles and UpB kills. Also be careful edgeguarding cuz they can use UpB to hit you through the edge.

:ultcharizard:
This one is also a bit less problematic. They'll try to outrange you with BAir and punish with USmash out of shield. They'll usually be at kill percent when they're at this stage so Waft confirms should come easy cuz of heavyweight plus big model.

I wanna say this one is an even 50:50
 

Sari

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#32
Oof I forgot to update the thread for a long time.

Alright I'm going to abandon the schedule I've been doing so from now on you are all free to discuss any MU to your choosing.
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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#33
In that case, I'd like to offer :ultsnake: as the next matchup as I have enough experience to fairly say enough on it from at least local tournaments.

It's fair to say Snake actually struggles in this matchup. He's going to spend alot of time setting up grenades and traps for Wario to try to dance around aerially and wall him out with his longer ranged aerials and tilts,especially that antiair UTilt.

However, the longer he does this, the sooner Wario builds Waft. So you can kinda camp out this matchup. Make sure to ban Final Destination and Lylat. In my opinion, Snake gets a ton of leverage off those stages.
Snake cannot land to save his life so UTilt, NAir and UAir will be very helpful here.

I'd say 60:40 in Wario's favor. Snake has to really change up how he plays if he gets Wafted again and again throughout the match.
 
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Ajimu

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#34
Hey guys !

In light of the Maister-Gluto set at Genesis7, do you have any more to say on the :ultgnw: matchup ?
Seems at least 40:60, but I haven't had enough practice against the little monster to be sure..
 

hydrobatmann

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#35
This is eltiti. I'll try to share with you some of my experiences with the characters that I have fought before. I hope this post could help you out with that. I understand the purpose of this discussion, but if you can help me watching my video and rate it with a like, it would be appreciated from you, guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaiAtFvlhX0

I recommend you to watch my video to see how I perform the Chomp attack in order to send the opponents that recovers vertically (Sonic, Wolf, to the center below of the stage >:D


Now, let's discuss about some MUs.

ROY/CHROM :ultroy::ultchrom:

From my experience:ultroy::ultchrom: matchup are difficult and it's hard to kill them if you get pressured with their sword attacks. They have the way to approach/kill Wario easily because Wario has a bad time with characters with swords in this case, so I think :ultwario: must play this match patiently. Aerials attacks such as Fair, Nair, and Upair are our primary attacks on air, while bair should be used close to edge or if Roy/Chrom has some high percentage in order to kill them. Please DON'T try to fight their upair on the edge because it's probably that IT CAN SPIKE YOU DOWN if you missinput trying to jump to them to perform an aerial attack :(

If you want to edgeguard these character I'd recommend:

- Grab your motocycle from the stage (if it is close to you to grab it, of course) and try to throw it to strike Roy/Chrom. It would be a good option if they are just starting they up air xD.

-If Wario has the chance, try to gimp :ultroy::ultchrom: with fairs or nairs and try to get back to the stage as you can.

Uptilt, nair and upair combos are good for this match to deal damage during this match. Remember that if they shield or counter we can eat them with Chomp. There is chance that if you react at time while Roy/Chrome are standing too close from the edge, you could chomp them in direction to the center to the stage so in case that they release of Chomp they would up b below of the stage and loss a stock. This is not always guaranteed, but sometimes it works. It's just a simple tip that has worked well for me against Sonic, Cloud and Roy xD.

These characters will try to upair/bair/uptilt/ftilt Wario a lot of times, so be prepared for that. Also be careful when you try to tech on the ground because they will likely wait you to roll or get up to fsmash or ftilt you D: . Also be careful when you have high % because Roy/Chrom could be waiting Wario to predict a way to kill us. For example, they could Bair if we try to perform an aerial attack or something similar.



I think this MU is 40:60 - In :ultroy::ultchrom:'s favor, but we can still beat them up. The key for this match is play patiently. Don't despair.

CAPTAIN FALCON :ultfalcon:

I think this matchup is in favor of Wario because Captain Falcon can be nair and uptilts to upair/wafts comboed easily. The problem is that this character runs faster than Wario, so we must pay attention if he tries to run to us and perform a grab or dash attack, or run into a bair. Chomp is super useful for this match together with the motocycle (When we drive it on stage and as a projectile). Watch out when trying to get back with the motocycle, otherwise Falcon will receive us with a smash attack or fair and could cost it a stock of Wario :( . Also, we should react when Falcon shields with Chomp as fast as we can because Falcon can up b to us.

We could edgeguard Falcon with dairs, fairs or throw the motocycle out of the stage because we could strike Falcon while he tries to up b or get back to the stage. Be careful to not get caught into a side b if you are trying to gimp him. Full or Half waft would be another option to edgeguard Falcon, just be careful and don't let Falcon up b to you.

On stage Falcon could do upairs, bairs and nairs to deal some damage to us, or kill us if we have high%. Pay attention to your damage because Falcon can kill Wario with fairs, bairs, up b or nair if we are out of stage D: . At least Soki (Best C. Falcon of Mexicali) does a lot of up b out of the stage, and when it accert it, we loss the stock definitely :(

I think this MU is 60:40 in favor of Wario.

MARIO:ultmario:

This plumber can give us some trouble if we get stuck with his fireballs, upair stairs combos, and if we are careless and let him use F.L.U.D.D. to move away from the stage. But this doesn't mean that Wario can't do something, so here we go!.

Wario can hit and run Mario preferable with fairs. If we are too close of Mario we could nair combo to him. Avoid getting hit by the fireballs, if you are so away from Mario you could Chomp the fireballs so we will charge our waft faster. Uptilts combos are also useful to deal damage to Mario. Sometimes you will need to grab him and fthrow/bthrow out of the stage and prepare to edgeguarding him or wait to get in the ledge, so we could read how Mario will get up on the stage and attack him. When Mario has high % we could bair on the air if we have that chance, or dash attack him if we react correctly to hit him and take his stock off. Waft is also a good option to kill, or use the motocycle as a projectile.

Watch out, Mario could combo us with up airs to up or up airs,dthrow,nair to Fair to spike us down. Also watch out for the F.L.U.D.D. because that flow of water could ruin our recovery options. D: . When Wario has high % should avoid land close to Mario because he could be waiting us with an upsmash, a grab, or maybe he could perform another smash attack or special attack. On the other hand, when Mario has high % and he is trying to land close to Wario and close to the ledge, we could dash attack, ftilt or eat them with Chomp.

Be careful of Mario's cap during recovering :( , he can also bair us close to the ledge to kill us.

This MU is 55:45 in favor of Wario.

:ultpokemontrainerf:POKEMON TRAINER:ultpokemontrainer:
:ultsquirtle::ultivysaur::ultcharizard:
From my experience in Socal Chronicles and with some players in online games and local friendlies and tournaments, this match even. Both characters could win or lose. It would depends of the players who this match will be done. Sometimes the PKMN Player will start with Squirtle, others with a different one. Still, Wario can win this MU if we play patiently and take correct decisions on our moves.

:ultsquirtle: Usually the PKMN Trainer player will start with this Pokemon. Be aware that Squirtlte is much faster than the other two Pokemon and also faster than Wario, so take in count that during the match. This turtle will likely try to make a combo with fairs or nairs that wll deal a lot of damage to Wario if we are careless. However, we must play patiently this match. You can Chomp their side b if you read that Squirtle will perform it. CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP his side b. Also, use a lot of fairs and nairs to deal damage to him. To take a stock from Squirtle dash attack, bair, nair or waft combos could works well.

As Mario does with the F.L.U.D.D. , Squirtle can ruins our recovery options with his neutral b. Flow of water can move away off stage when we jumped out of the moto D:

We could edgeguard Squirtle with dair (if we accert the spike when they try to upb or hit us, it's better for us! :D), fair, bair or simply wait Squirtle to come back to the ledge. We could throw him the motocycle, or use the motocycle to prepare a kind of ledgetrap and try to read and kill Squirtle.


:ultivysaur: This Pokemon is selected after the PKMN Trainer has played Squirtle to do some damage to Wario to take off a stock from us. Ivysaur will try to throw some leafs to start combos (We could parry the leafs if we know how to parry or just evade them to be safe) or simply deal some damage and put pressure on us. Don't be above him for a long time because he can upair or upb to us. We can hit and run Ivysaur with fairs or nairs. Also we can combo him with nairs and uptilts to upair. Chomp works fine with this Pokemon, too. When Ivysaur tries to recover with his upb on the ledge, we could use dair close of the edge to try to hit him.

When we are trying to recover he could try to dair us to get a spike close of the edge, so we should mixup our recovery options, otherwise we will be spiked D:

:ultcharizard:Charizard is usually used when Wario has high % because this is the stronger PKMN that has PKMN Trainer and can strike us and take one stock from us. .This lizard can take stocks from Wario usually with bairs, upsmash, down smash, ftilt (if we have too much damage), upthrow, side b (I recommend not fighting back this one, I'd rather evade it or use shield to make it go on air and strike him back) or up b (We could attack this if the opponent has failed to hit us >:D) We also will deal with their nairs and neutral b when we try to recover. Dair can spike us out of the stage. Side b can kill us, so avoid getting hit by this move. Instead try to shield to the attack, and after Charizard is on the air try to read their DI and attack him (I don't know, with nair combos, fsmash or full waft if possible). Charizard likes to kill us with Bairs .

When edgeguarding Charizard, you could dair his upb so we probably could spike him down. Also you could perform a series of nairs or fairs to deal some damage, just take in count that he can still side b out of the stage and recover. Again, avoid getting hit by his side b, specially in high damage %. Don't try to fight back his side b with our side b (running the motocycle) because we will be striked so hard and possibly loss a stock. This is another character that you could Chomp on the edge of the stage to throw it below of the stage and force it to up b below the stage, just like in the video that I'm sharing at the start of this post. You could also throw the moto out of the stage to strike the opponent while trying to recover.

In my opinion, this MU is 50:50

PIKACHU:ultpikachu:

This one of the hardest MU that Wario can deal because of Pikachu's aerials, these has dominance over our Wario. This is another match that needs to be played patiently because Pikachu will be trying to perform the dthrow to bair combo to us, so we will need to know how to DI this if we want to release this. Reserve your waft to kill confirm, the advantage for us is that Pikachu isn't a heavy character, so that means that we can kill it with attacks like dash attack, upsmash, bair, etc. without problems if are done in the perfect moment. It's also possible that we will be facing a spam of Pikachu's neutral b, so try to evade it, and if you can, approach to your opponent with Chomp or Fair to dtilt/dash attack. Up air are useful sometimes if Pikachu is above our Wario and we can catch it up with up air. You can uptilt combo to up air or uptilt to waft to this character. You must try to play hit n run style on this match. Bair are great to take stocks from Pika.

When edgeguarding Pikachu, I recommend waiting for him to get into the ledge because Pikachu will probably expecting us to come for him and could perform down b to spike us. Also sometimes Pikachu tries to recover with side b. If you have your motocycle close to you and you are close from the edge, you could throw it away of the stage to try to hit the opponent while doing side b or up b. You could do a kind of ledgetrapping with the motocycle (For example, throwing it up to cover the get up/attack options while also trying to guess if Pikachu will jump from the ledge or roll. You must be alert about what Pikachu could you in order to accert your attacks correctly. If Pikachu decides to get up from the ledge and he has around 120-130% I recommend you to Chomp to it and mash b as fast as you can, and hope to get the stock, If Pikachu uses up b you could wait for him to see where could end his move and then you can attack him, or simply shield and wait until you can do it a nair or fair.

This MU is 30:70 heavily in Pikachu's favor :(


KING DEDEDE :ultkingdedede:

King DDD is easy to combo with nairs, fairs, uptilts to upair. You could have problems when DDD starts to throw Gordos to you. You could hit them, but you must be sure that you can hit them in the right momento because you could get trade damage trying to respond to this attack. You can also parry to them if you are good at doing parries, or simply avoid them. If we have the chance, we can Chomp to DDD close to the ledges. Another info is that DDD won't loss stocks so easily because he is a heavy character, so don't be surprise despite you did, for example, a dash attack when DDD has high % (110-125) and he survives xD. Also be careful with his up b because it can kill you easily if you have high % and you are careless. Also it could break your shield, so avoid trying to fight back DDD when performing his up b. Instead, if his up b is ending, you could jump to Chomp to it or do a combo with nairs and up airs. If we have high % and DDD is expecting jumps or aerials from us, he could kill us with nair, so watch your moves. DDD also sometimes tries to put a Gordo close to the ledge if we want to get up/attack and get strike by the Gordo, or waiting for us to do a roll and then he receives us with a down smash to take a stock from us. Be wise when trying to get back in the stage.

When edgeguarding, don't be close to the edge of the stage if you don't plan to attack DDD out of the stage because he will tend to approach to the ledge and hurt you with upairs and then upb to the ledge.

I rate this MU as 55:45 slightly in Wario's favor

Well guys, I hope this help you for something.
 
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