The Wario "franchise"

[Quillion]

"Franchise" is in quotes since it's clear the Wario franchise isn't really a franchise. Just a bunch of random games they decided to slap Wario onto.

Anyway, you may discuss anything having to do with this group of games.
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Anyway, why is it that Nintendo wants to make everything Wario is in separate not just from the Mario franchise, but each other? I'd genuinely love to see Captain Syrup in the Mario spin-offs and Ware and Waluigi in Land and Ware.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

First they actually have to acknowledge that Wario Land exists.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Wario (more specifically Wario Land) has probably been hurt the most by the end of Nintendo's traditional handhelds. DKC or Yoshi's series could survive given they started on consoles and had enough lingering legacy from those 90s games to be considered safe. Wario Land, by virtue of starting on a handheld and being largely sustained by such, lacked the same safety net, especially when Wario Ware emerged to effectively take its place in the DS era and onward.

Its a pity Shake It came out when it did, because such a beautiful looking game with solid level design feels like it would have done well now, especially when the indie scene has demonstrated how much value non-traditional 2D platformers have. Heck Shovel Knight King of Cards is some ways the Wario Land successor we never officially got after 2008.

 

[Quillion]

Wario (more specifically Wario Land) has probably been hurt the most by the end of Nintendo's traditional handhelds. DKC or Yoshi's series could survive given they started on consoles and had enough lingering legacy from those 90s games to be considered safe. Wario Land, by virtue of starting on a handheld and being largely sustained by such, lacked the same safety net, especially when Wario Ware emerged to effectively take its place in the DS era and onward.

I've heard that WarioWare is also a very inexpensive production relying on simplistic art and animation, so it can survive the fact that Ware overall has not yet matched Wario Land overall in sales.

Its a pity Shake It came out when it did, because such a beautiful looking game with solid level design feels like it would have done well now, especially when the indie scene has demonstrated how much value non-traditional 2D platformers have. Heck Shovel Knight King of Cards is some ways the Wario Land successor we never officially got after 2008.

Following the above, it seems that Shake It used traditional animation techniques a la Cuphead for its visuals, which probably made the game super-expensive to make for audiences' general perception that 2D games should be inexpensive.

I guess that means Wario will need modern polygonal animation to go back to platforming. But that'll entail the sacrifice of not being visually distinct from Mario now.

 

[Mamboo07]

Part of me would really love to see a sequel to Wario World with Waluigi playable.
(Which will never happen)

The bosses themselves look like something out of Courage the Cowardly Dog, and I love how every boss in this game not only looks uncanny but also make the most ungodly sounding noises on top of that.
(Wario not only stands up to but taunts these Lovecraftian horrors gives me a whole new level of respect for this man in yellow)

This game feels like the weirdest fever dream.

If bosses in Wario games are this weird, I'd hate to see how weird bosses in a new one would be...

 

[Quillion]

Part of me would really love to see a sequel to Wario World with Waluigi playable.
(Which will never happen)

The bosses themselves look like something out of Courage the Cowardly Dog, and I love how every boss in this game not only looks uncanny but also make the most ungodly sounding noises on top of that.
(Wario not only stands up to but taunts these Lovecraftian horrors gives me a whole new level of respect for this man in yellow)

This game feels like the weirdest fever dream.

If bosses in Wario games are this weird, I'd hate to see how weird bosses in a new one would be...

Love that game too for the simple fact that it shows what Wario is capable of, both in terms of abilities and character.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think it'd be cool to incorporate farts into a new Wario Land somehow - perhaps something small like adding a fart effect when the ground pound hits. The lowbrow humour was always what made Wario endearing to me, without them he's just a slightly more comical take on the "tough macho anti-hero" that's a dime a dozen in any non-Nintendo game. While I do consider the WL titles some of the best platformers ever created, they feel a little "incomplete" as Wario games with the lower amount of gross jokes compared to Ware and Wario's apperances in Mario games.

 

[Mamboo07]

I think it'd be cool to incorporate farts into a new Wario Land somehow - perhaps something small like adding a fart effect when the ground pound hits. The lowbrow humour was always what made Wario endearing to me, and while I do consider the WL titles some of the best platformers ever created, they feel a little "incomplete" as Wario games with the lower amount of gross jokes compared to Ware and Wario's apperances in Mario games.

I would have Wario use some kind of fart attack that makes him lift up to higher places.

Fart rocket with a gas meter, refilling by getting garlic.

Edit: Using it near fire makes you blast higher and faster because flammable.

 

[Veca Gorebyss]

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i ha hte it.



◇

 

[Quillion]

I think it'd be cool to incorporate farts into a new Wario Land somehow - perhaps something small like adding a fart effect when the ground pound hits. The lowbrow humour was always what made Wario endearing to me, without them he's just a slightly more comical take on the "tough macho anti-hero" that's a dime a dozen in any non-Nintendo game. While I do consider the WL titles some of the best platformers ever created, they feel a little "incomplete" as Wario games with the lower amount of gross jokes compared to Ware and Wario's apperances in Mario games.

Is Wario even that gross in the Mario spin-offs? He seems more of a mischievous cheater alongside Waluigi in those games.

All I can really think of is the special fart item he has in Mario Strikers Charged.

i ha hte it.

 

[Veca Gorebyss]

◇



as if about to backhand someobody oh shjt no.



◇

 

[Torgo the Bear]

All I’m gonna say is that I genuinely don’t care how, I want Captain Syrup back. I really like pirate characters in a series that isn’t centered around pirates or seafaring in general.

 

[Quillion]

All I’m gonna say is that I genuinely don’t care how, I want Captain Syrup back. I really like pirate characters in a series that isn’t centered around pirates or seafaring in general.

They could make her a rival microgame maker in Ware. Bring their rivalry from Land there.

Or at least make her an actual Mario spin-off character.

 

[Laniv]

They really do need to bring back Captain Syrup, yeah.

Here's an idea for her if they make a new Wario Land: what if she was a playable character alongside Wario, with the story being that the two of them are racing for the same treasure? I imagine the gameplay would be a sorta like Crash Twinsanity, with both players able to screw over the other by attacking or knocking them into a pit. But both players would need to do this in order to solve puzzles and get past obstacles in order to get more treasure at the end of the level.

Other than that, I feel like Captain Syrup could be placed in the Mario sports games to fill in the "Wapeach" role, in case they feel like Peach needs a rival character.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Other than that, I feel like Captain Syrup could be placed in the Mario sports games to fill in the "Wapeach" role, in case they feel like Peach needs a rival character.

Strong disagree here. A Wapeach would need to be ugly, Syrup is not ugly.

 

[Mamboo07]

A Wapeach would need to be ugly

Correct, have her look like one of these old witches in media with warts.

 

[Quillion]

Strong disagree here. A Wapeach would need to be ugly, Syrup is not ugly.

She would be the incompetent princess of an impoverished nation who stalks Wario because she finds him hot and rich.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Strong disagree here. A Wapeach would need to be ugly, Syrup is not ugly.

That’s why nintendo would never make Wapeach lol

 

[FazDude]

As long as Miyamoto's alive, Wapeach will never happen. That's probably for the best.

Anyway, I'm way more familiar with the Land series - I've been meaning to play more of 4, since it is Wario's greatest achievement and all. Plus, as an Antonblast/Pizza Tower enjoyer, I kinda owe it to myself to play their main inspiration. Had a fun time with Get It Together, though.

 

[Quillion]

Is Wario just doomed to never reach the commercial heights of Donkey Kong, Yoshi, or Luigi's Mansion because Wario isn't quite as friendly and marketable as any of the other Mario-universe heroes?

It's a painful thought I have about Wario that will likely dampen any effort to further him as a franchise. Wario can at least coast on his connection to Mario, but maybe not work so well on his own with Mario's target audience.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the issue is also that Wario is a platformer style game that's a bit off the beaten path. The other three have their loosely defined roles with marketing and image:

Mario - Baseline platformer for all ages, typically with the standard art style and aesthetics
Donkey Kong - Kinetic emphasized platformer with greater difficulty and venturing into stylized imagery and very coherent level design
Yoshi - Kid friendly platformer oriented around slow in stage exploration and the one most prone to experimentation with art style

Wario as the often non-linear variation based around power-ups and a more wacky world can fit, but its a bit trickier to effectively fit into their plans and general mass marketing. Its easy to attract a niche audience, not so much with a larger one.

 

[Quillion]

Part of the issue is also that Wario is a platformer style game that's a bit off the beaten path. The other three have their loosely defined roles with marketing and image:

Mario - Baseline platformer for all ages, typically with the standard art style and aesthetics
Donkey Kong - Kinetic emphasized platformer with greater difficulty and venturing into stylized imagery and very coherent level design
Yoshi - Kid friendly platformer oriented around slow in stage exploration and the one most prone to experimentation with art style

Wario as the often non-linear variation based around power-ups and a more wacky world can fit, but its a bit trickier to effectively fit into their plans and general mass marketing. Its easy to attract a niche audience, not so much with a larger one.

I guess that explains why Wario is growing in influence on indie devs.

Something that appeals to a niche audience like that is exactly what indies thrive on.

You know, since Wario has a virtually "no rules" presentation unlike other Marioverse IPs, would he be more suited to an indie farmout?

 

[Aligo]

Y

I guess that explains why Wario is growing in influence on indie devs.

Something that appeals to a niche audience like that is exactly what indies thrive on.

You know, since Wario has a virtually "no rules" presentation unlike other Marioverse IPs, would he be more suited to an indie farmout?

Yes I could definitely see Nintendo allowing for a wario crossover or even a third party developed game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is Wario just doomed to never reach the commercial heights of Donkey Kong, Yoshi, or Luigi's Mansion because Wario isn't quite as friendly and marketable as any of the other Mario-universe heroes?

It's a painful thought I have about Wario that will likely dampen any effort to further him as a franchise. Wario can at least coast on his connection to Mario, but maybe not work so well on his own with Mario's target audience.

Wario Ware is commercially successful.

Are you talking about Wario in general or specifically Wario Land?

 

[Quillion]

Wario Ware is commercially successful.

Are you talking about Wario in general or specifically Wario Land?

WarioWare still hasn't beaten Wario Land as a whole in sales yet.

Yes, I'm talking bout Wario in general, but for his own franchise predating Donkey Kong Country alone, the DKC games have outsold the Wario platformers 4 times over.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I wouldn't want this to entirely aesthetically define a possible revival (especially with how good Shake It looks to this day) if there was a Nintendo series that could potentially thrive as a retro throwback visually, its Wario Land. A new game that looked like a very slick, widescreen GBA title (with better sound obviously) would stand out a lot in comparison to other first party platformers and indeed might be the context that would be best served by getting indie talent with fresh ideas to work on it.

Furthermore, not to entirely crib from Shovel Knight, but given how that game excelled via a wide cast of fun and wacky NPCs, there could be worse ideas to utilize for Wario Land title than that one. Hell if anything you could finally start merging elements from that series and Wario Ware by having the cast from the latter fill out those roles, effectively bridging the two subseries in a real way for the first time. A move that would also perhaps allow aspects from Land like Captain Syrup to pop up in Wario Ware games down the line.

 

[Quillion]

While I wouldn't want this to entirely aesthetically define a possible revival (especially with how good Shake It looks to this day) if there was a Nintendo series that could potentially thrive as a retro throwback visually, its Wario Land. A new game that looked like a very slick, widescreen GBA title (with better sound obviously) would stand out a lot in comparison to other first party platformers and indeed might be the context that would be best served by getting indie talent with fresh ideas to work on it.

Furthermore, not to entirely crib from Shovel Knight, but given how that game excelled via a wide cast of fun and wacky NPCs, there could be worse ideas to utilize for Wario Land title than that one. Hell if anything you could finally start merging elements from that series and Wario Ware by having the cast from the latter fill out those roles, effectively bridging the two subseries in a real way for the first time. A move that would also perhaps allow aspects from Land like Captain Syrup to pop up in Wario Ware games down the line.

You talking about pixel art?

I must admit, I have been wanting a mid/high-budget pixel title for a while.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

High budget pixel art yeah. Its a relatively fresh angle for a Nintendo series to try these days and feels like it would fit the wackier nature of Wario Land's setting. If they were finally willing to incorporate Waluigi in that setting, seeing him that style would be another novelty.

 

[Quillion]

If what I've heard about SNK is correct, there may be a threshold of detail above which pixel art is more trouble than it's worth while polygons are more efficient.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think something at the level of ultra detailed Metal Slug animation wouldn't really be necessary, especially given Wario Land's typical aesthetics.

Something like Kaze and the Wild Masks feels like a good baseline to work off of, something that's already distinct and could get that extra touch from a Nintendo budget.

 

[Oracle Link]

That’s why nintendo would never make Wapeach lol

You do know Shokora exist her 3rd Form is basically Wapeach:

 

[Quillion]

So over on the Donkey Kong thread LiveStudioAudience brought up a good point about why Wario doesn't have the mass appeal of any of the other character-centric Mario spin-offs.

Moreover for the purposes of using Mario connected uiniverses they're simply an easier sell to mass audiences than Wario/Wario Ware characters (which are fantastic but need a bit more set--up to explain their odd characteristics)

Therein lies a problem though, as Wario kinda thrives on just being as inexplicably wacky as possible. Maybe if Wario did have more of a cohesive universe between the platformers and Ware, it wouldn't really feel like Wario anymore and would just be another character-centric Mario spin-off.

 

[Quillion]

Wario's getting some love on the NSO GB and GBA sections for what that's worth. That's both Land and Ware at that.

I still find it weird that Land and Ware practically treat each other like they don't exist.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know looking at the timeline, I think is possible that Wario Land was effectively acting as a replacement for 2D Mario (despite how different they were), and once the latter came back, Nintendo simply didn't see as much use for the series outside the Wario Ware brand. No real evidence, but that there's relatively little overlap between the two does seem pretty telling.

 

[Quillion]

You know looking at the timeline, I think is possible that Wario Land was effectively acting as a replacement for 2D Mario (despite how different they were), and once the latter came back, Nintendo simply didn't see as much use for the series outside the Wario Ware brand. No real evidence, but that there's relatively little overlap between the two does seem pretty telling.

It seems Wario Land was acting as the replacement for 2D Mario during the GB era, but most of the GBA era was dominated by ports of SNES (versions of) games.

Also, the last Wario Land game was released five years into the life of WarioWare, so there was at least some overlap.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Happy to see Wario Land 3 make the cut for NSO, hopefully 2 and 4 are in the pipeline.

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of Warioland 3 it is seemingly the most underated wario land game i mean everyone seems to talk about 4 and alot of people talk about 1, 2, world and shake it Wario land 3 barely gets noticed which is sad cause it was one of the biggest games in my childhood after seasons and ages maybe ...
Im Calling this phenomenon the Gameboy Color Curse!
Ps. I just lumped in world with land because its basically 3d wario land so yeah!

 

[Quillion]

Speaking of Warioland 3 it is seemingly the most underated wario land game i mean everyone seems to talk about 4 and alot of people talk about 1, 2, world and shake it Wario land 3 barely gets noticed which is sad cause it was one of the biggest games in my childhood after seasons and ages maybe ...
Im Calling this phenomenon the Gameboy Color Curse!
Ps. I just lumped in world with land because its basically 3d wario land so yeah!

I find 3's Metroidvania elements rather restrictive, slow, and weirdly integrated with the world map. I prefer 2 since it has all of the same core mechanics plus a cool branching story.

 

[FrozenRoy]

I wonder if Pizza Tower's success will help Wario get a second look?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Speaking of Warioland 3 it is seemingly the most underated wario land game i mean everyone seems to talk about 4 and alot of people talk about 1, 2, world and shake it Wario land 3 barely gets noticed which is sad cause it was one of the biggest games in my childhood after seasons and ages maybe ...
Im Calling this phenomenon the Gameboy Color Curse!
Ps. I just lumped in world with land because its basically 3d wario land so yeah!

I'll give 3 a shot at some point, i have the Gameboy app on my switch lol