The URC has been disbanded.

[Cassio]

Hey folks, and anti-ban in particular (and mew2king, this means you especially). I was one of the biggest advocates and posters on that side of that aisle, and fairly strongly opposed to a unified ruleset since forever, but lets try and be sensible and respectful k?

Rather than bicker about past events lets please move on. There are significantly more pressing issues we need to address within our community. The "I told you so's" and conspiracy theories will do absolutely nothing for you or the communities benefit from this point forward. Nor will arguing about the affects of the sticky rule or how long it was implemented or 'power abuse' from an entity that no longer exists.

Issues that still need to be addressed (quoted from xyro)

1. People have been saturated with smash. They have been going to 37 HOBOs, 10-12 Phases , 10-11 Revolutions, 8-9 final smashes, 16 DMTs, 3 whobos and HUNDREDS of fests. All of these things have pretty much been happening every other week for the past 4 years(at one point, sunc was having fests/torunaments at his house EVERY WEEKEND for like 2-3 months). At one point tx was the most active state in the USA. People are sick of it.

2. People are tired of losing to the same people. GNES/RAZER/TRELA and some of DOJO. For the past 2.5-3 years these people have claimed top 3-4 in EVERY tournament(not whobo) they go to. So why do people want to travel when they know AT BEST they will get 5th(aka no money or very low money).

THOSE^ things are why the scene was dying.

Id also add things like the fact that tournaments take forever, or community outreach and advertisement to potential players outside the community is exceptionally poor, and probably a ton of other things.

 

[Player-1]

Speaking of level discussion. This is the opposite. You're type of behavior is probably more damaging to the community than the fractional change caused by varying rulesets and authoritative decision making.

You're in a position of power on this site. One may argue that the power is superfluous, or that it doesn't matter because it's just a video game. However, there's still an example to be set. Try to set a good one.

some people just don't respond to a 'level discussion' and just needs to be told how it is.

 

[Cassio]

Player-1 that isnt true. You werent "telling it how it is" you were being unnecessarily mean. You can be straightforward and honest without being disrepsectful, and the frequent disrespect you show to others on the board regardless of how erratic their posts are or where is very likely the leading reason people have little respect for you as an authority/potential authority in return from an otherwise strong resume of traits.

 

[Player-1]

Respect is a 2 way streak, if people don't respect me then I won't respect them back. And yes I was telling it how it was, it's pretty clear when people tell M2K the same stuff over and over again about how it wasn't even the URC's decision about the sticky policy. If he doesn't get it by the 500th time from a 'leveled discussion' then it clearly isn't working. I don't really care about people's respect for me as an authority either and IDC about ever being a potential authority either.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Respect is a 2 way streak, if people don't respect me then I won't respect them back. And yes I was telling it how it was, it's pretty clear when people tell M2K the same stuff over and over again about how it wasn't even the URC's decision about the sticky policy. If he doesn't get it by the 500th time from a 'leveled discussion' then it clearly isn't working. I don't really care about people's respect for me as an authority either and IDC about ever being a potential authority either.

His claims were that the sticky rule caused the ruleset to be forced, and that like minded individuals gathered to push change when it didn't go their way in the BBR.

He didn't necessarily try to refute the origin of the sticky rule (this time), so you seem to have addressed something different. I can't say much about his second point. A group of like minded people did gather to push change, and it may have been because the change they wanted wasn't visible... he just makes it seem more malicious than it probably was intended (though mal intent may have been felt from the sticky rule, which was passed down by the URC... the senate origins are only coming out now, so for most intents it was seen as a URC enforced rule).

His standpoint is emotionally reinforced, but not completely illogical.

 

[Krystedez]

2-way street.

M2K doesn't read, he only goes by what people tell him that especially sound good to him specifically.

URC in my opinion was fine. SWF as a whole is not something tournament operators should expect to cater to them in any form. You make large events? Advertise them yourself. Getting exposure because you use URS vs not getting exposure because you use something else is your own decision; it is not a god damn right that you reserve from SWF to get that exposure, and anyone who thinks they deserve that exposure automatically is a !@#$ing fool.

I really don't understand how anyone thought URC was FORCING ANYTHING.

I'm a little upset about the issue. I think the Senate gave up on URC too quickly, and I feel the URC didn't restructure itself accordingly in a professional manner in order to keep respect for their recommended ruleset.

 

[DeLux]

I'm a little upset about the issue. I think the Senate gave up on URC too quickly, and I feel the URC didn't restructure itself accordingly in a professional manner in order to keep respect for their recommended ruleset.

You see, that's the thing. The URC was in the process of restructuring itself heavily with 3.0 and the code of conduct from the Charter.

I actually asked Xiivi to let me take control of the group for administrative purposes via PM, but rather than let the restructuring / functioning with proper active leadership occur the choice was made to disband.

 

[Player-1]

He blamed the sticky rule on the URS, and his first claim has been addressed multiple times in the past as well.

 

[Krystedez]

That's really unfortunate DeLux. I would have liked to see a restructed URC. I was going to one day ask to be able to join it once my goal of reestablishing Indiana as an actual state and get large events goin' on at my college for my last year of school. Guess that won't ever work out.

 

[etecoon]

great news for smash wii u/smash 3DS, I think the damage was pretty much done to brawl so that's w/e

 

[Cassio]

Question for anyone that legitimately thinks the URC didnt weild any power. Whats the difference between a URC thats SWF Senate endorsed and one that isnt? If the URC really had no power, then it shouldnt really matter whether SWF officially endorses a URC or not.

 

[DeLux]

That's really unfortunate DeLux. I would have liked to see a restructed URC. I was going to one day ask to be able to join it once my goal of reestablishing Indiana as an actual state and get large events goin' on at my college for my last year of school. Guess that won't ever work out.

This doesn't mean the end of anything in terms of a standard ruleset, outside of just a minor setback to me.

If you look at in terms of activity in the MW, MWW has local scenes operating in MN, MO, KS, IA, IL. MWE has MI, OH, and if you build in IN.

That's only 8 TO's we could work to get on board to run the same ruleset regionally.

Question for anyone that legitimately thinks the URC didnt weild any power. Whats the difference between a URC thats SWF Senate endorsed and one that isnt?

An open discussion thread for starters >_>

Being able to update the ruleset itself because THAT thread is ALSO locked

 

[GimR]

daaaaang....

 

[Cassio]

Are discussion threads on a common ruleset(s) for TOs banned from existing now? I agree that that would be a bit silly if true.

 

[DeLux]

Why would we make ANOTHER URS discussion thread if one already exists?

Doing so what just be circumventing staff decisions/policy, and I'm not about to be the one to do that.

 

[t!MmY]

Rather than bicker about past events lets please move on. There are significantly more pressing issues we need to address within our community.

...Id also add things like the fact that tournaments take forever, or community outreach and advertisement to potential players outside the community is exceptionally poor, and probably a ton of other things.

I'm with Cassio in that we don't need to focus on things that hold us back, but rather put it behind us and turn our attention to issues that need resolution. -^_^-

 

[Espy Rose]

@Tag: I think what's unfortunate about the problems that still exist is that there are incredibly easy fixes to some of them (more placement payouts and 2-stock games, for example, solve the "why go when I'll get fifth" end "tournaments take to long" problems, respectfully). People just don't want to try, or want to keep it "their way" in their regions.

 

[Z'zgashi]

An open discussion thread for starters >_>

Being able to update the ruleset itself because THAT thread is ALSO locked

This so much. We spent a good 3+ months debating, discussing, and analyzing pretty much EVERYTHING trying to make a huge update, but without any discussion or ability to explain ANYTHING, the Senate just shut us down. They literally just PM'd us out of the blue with no explanation saying, in 3 days, we're shutting down the URC. They didnt care about anything we were working on, they didnt care to try and 'fix' any problems they might have seen/had, they just closed it, and there's really nothing esle to it.

 

[Krystedez]

What's the point in that?... I really don't even know any of the Senate members besides Ankoku to be honest.

 

[Cassio]

Theres a difference between a choice made (or lack of desire) by TOs to not do so and the forum staff preventing it.

I wont drag out the point but the gist of it is that there is a legitimate difference in the power behind a SWF endorsed URC and one that is not, regardless of whether its able to enforce its stance or not (imo the stick rule wasnt that big a deal as AZ said from the beginning, but the URC did hold a lot of authority until Apex and events thereafter). At least this is what gobernment learned me

Likewise it would be silly to place the needs of such an entity over the community assuming they were to come into conflict, which was what I gathered from Krystedez's post.

Anywho yeah at espy and t!mmy, but sometimes change comes about slowly and I have hope things can get better if we put in the effort. So far I think weve been distracted by less important issues or were simply being lazy, but I think we need to start shifting focus on what we really care about and on the real issues affecting the community.

 

[JTsm]

Get ****ed up URC.

No but seriously, as a whole, I think the URC did a pretty pathetic job to keeps things unified. Certain members of the group like Xyro won't even take a second look at any other opinion other than his own and just say, "Nope **** MK." You can't have a small group of people as close minded as that and expect people to follow it.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Xyro dropped using like..4 or 5 stages for the Unity Ruleset and the MK ban wasn't even talked about while he was doing that. Xyro probably compromised the most - there were some TOs who came into the URC and didn't budge on a single issue.

 

[Espy Rose]

To be honest, I trust Xyro as a TO over anyone else in that group. Anyone who hasn't talked to him in person or talked to him behind closed doors doesn't seem to get this idea that Xyro REALLY knows what he's doing as a tournament organizer.

He's just a character online.

 

[Strong Badam]

it's about time
terrible ruleset

 

[Dcold]

I wasn't a fan of some of the Unity Stages and rules, but I did and still do think the ideas behind it are solid, and there's no harm having a "default" ruleset for both new players and new TOs to use. I personally don't even look at the stickies but I see they would be important. You can't blame them for things directly out of their control, but the ruleset was always recommended as there was no real punishment for not using it.

Can someone clarify why it would be terrible if Unity continued to make updates to their ruleset for recommending purposes? Don't like it? Don't use it. Telling people we're using "Apex Ruleset" or "Unity Ruleset" is much easier than writing out all of the rules you're using for your tournament repeatedly. I don't see the harm when there's no detriment.

 

[Luxord]

While I have no ill will towards the individual members of the Unity Ruleset Committee, the URC was unquestionably one of the worst things in the history of the Smash community. The URC's attempt to remove decision-making power from Regions and Tournament Organizers by forcing a "standard" ruleset was completely counter to the core of our game/community and did nothing but further alienate and disrupt the scene.

I can't wait to return to a recommended ruleset instead of an enforced one. The power should always be in the hands of the community, not a committee.

Very good post.

And to anyone defending the URC by using the argument that it was "only recommended" is honestly ignorant. The URC was MADE up of the most prominent TOs for the most part so just them running it covers a large portion of (bigger) tourneaments. Then there was the whole, "yeah no advertising whatsoever unless you run this."

PS) The URC didn't have to be the way it was, if it was updated more or had a *little* more lenience it could have been much better, but alas it wasn't meant to be.

 

[infiniteV115]

If you're hate the ruleset, then this is actually bad news for you, cause now it's not gonna change.
And people can (and will) still use it, cause all URC members are prominent TOs and will probably use the URS or something close to it.

Edit: I think I'm going to stop posting here.

 

[WindMajor]

This so much. We spent a good 3+ months debating, discussing, and analyzing pretty much EVERYTHING trying to make a huge update, but without any discussion or ability to explain ANYTHING, the Senate just shut us down. They literally just PM'd us out of the blue with no explanation saying, in 3 days, we're shutting down the URC. They didnt care about anything we were working on, they didnt care to try and 'fix' any problems they might have seen/had, they just closed it, and there's really nothing esle to it.

Can you give me a date on this? This is really alarming in my opinion.

 

[MR. K]

whelp...if there was any doubt before that the brawl community is falling apart its just been confirmed now.

 

[Dcold]

Very good post.

And to anyone defending the URC by using the argument that it was "only recommended" is honestly ignorant. The URC was MADE up of the most prominent TOs for the most part so just them running it covers a large portion of (bigger) tourneaments. Then there was the whole, "yeah no advertising whatsoever unless you run this."

PS) The URC didn't have to be the way it was, if it was updated more or had a *little* more lenience it could have been much better, but alas it wasn't meant to be.

And this surprises you that a tournament organizer would want to use the ruleset they like the best and/or created? There are other tournaments out there if you don't want to go to that one. But would you still be annoyed/frustrated at the same set of TOs if they had all used the same ruleset, but they were not banded together as a committee?

The sticky rule has been covered over the last couple pages, so not even going into that again lol.

 

[WindMajor]

And to anyone defending the URC by using the argument that it was "only recommended" is honestly ignorant. The URC was MADE up of the most prominent TOs for the most part so just them running it covers a large portion of (bigger) tourneaments. Then there was the whole, "yeah no advertising whatsoever unless you run this."

The point is that nobody was forced to use Unity. If I were to host a tournament right now, I doubt that a single URC member would go up to me, point a gun at my head, and say, "You run Unity right now or else you die."

I still had full control over my tournament, and even though there was a lot of incentive to use Unity, I still had the choice to ignore it and do whatever I wanted, and no Senator, Admin or URC member was going to stop me from wanting to run the tournament the way I wanted.

The only way that you can be forced to use Unity was if you made the choice to join the Unity Ruleset Committee, but you still had the option to be a tournament organizer and not be in the URC.

 

[Luxord]

And this surprises you that a tournament organizer would want to use the ruleset they like the best and/or created? There are other tournaments out there if you don't want to go to that one. But would you still be annoyed/frustrated at the same set of TOs if they had all used the same ruleset, but they were not banded together as a committee?

The sticky rule has been covered over the last couple pages, so not even going into that again lol.

No wonder the smash community is doing so well lately. inb4 sarcasm
And believe or not, not EVERYONE can go to any tournament whenever they want, they may only be able to go to let's say one a month for now and it's always the same ruleset.

@twink and dcold
Also, ignore the statements about the sticky rule, I typed up my post to this thread earlier but didn't post it till later (by which time there were way more pages of posts explaining what happened with the sticky rule in depth)

 

[Dcold]

No wonder the smash community is doing so well lately. inb4 sarcasm
And believe or not, not EVERYONE can go to any tournament whenever they want, they may only be able to go to let's say one a month for now and it's always the same ruleset.

@twink and dcold
Also, ignore the statements about the sticky rule, I typed up my post to this thread earlier but didn't post it till later (by which time there were way more pages of posts explaining what happened with the sticky rule in depth)

Then that's unfortunate lol. Back to my main point, why wouldn't a TO use the ruleset they like the best or created? Tournaments are like business. If you don't like it, don't go to it. If enough people don't like it, the TO will be forced to make a change to something or else they're wasting time/money. If you're in a store and you think something is overpriced, or cheap [in quality] or whatever, do you buy it anyway just because it's there?

But again, would you be as mad/frustrated with the same members of Unity who make most of the bigger tournaments [as you said] use the same ruleset, but were never called the URC? If they were just single people who all decided to use that ruleset, not even a committee, would you have as much hatred towards it?

 

[tekkie]

the URC ruleset was crap.

banning MK wasn't.

MK will still be banned at things i run.

 

[Flayl]

it's about time
terrible ruleset

have you seen the recommended 3.0 BBR ruleset?

 

[Omni]

Basically, now everyone will have the freedom to make whatever ruleset they please.

[glow]Why no eh'vry'body happy?[/glow]

 

[Luxord]

Then that's unfortunate lol. Back to my main point, why wouldn't a TO use the ruleset they like the best or created? Tournaments are like business. If you don't like it, don't go to it. If enough people don't like it, the TO will be forced to make a change to something or else they're wasting time/money. If you're in a store and you think something is overpriced, or cheap [in quality] or whatever, do you buy it anyway just because it's there?

But again, would you be as mad/frustrated with the same members of Unity who make most of the bigger tournaments [as you said] use the same ruleset, but were never called the URC? If they were just single people who all decided to use that ruleset, not even a committee, would you have as much hatred towards it?

At a certain point you have to think of the long-term. The way I see it is like this:
Situation Now: X people go to Y tournament, and then there's newcomers who we can call the Z group. Z group doesn't want to attend because of ruleset, so the tournaments keep going on with the same X people going. EVENTUALLY the X people quit and now smash has no future, you NEED to want growth for the smash community cold. At a certain point a TO having to make concessions for the new generation is more effective in order to preserve our community. And to be quite honest, if the TO of Y tournament changed the ruleset to encourage people from the Z group to come, I can't imagine more than 5-10% of people from the X group saying "oh the ruleset has changed, guess I'll stop going."

But I concede to your second point, I would not have as much hatred towards it. But because they did make it official it did 2 things:
1. People new to the community come onto smashboards homepage, see the ruleset and think "wow this looks like the legit stuff, I guess I'll look for tournaments that have this!" and disregard tourneys with other rulesets.
2. Regardless of the sticky rule not being from the URC and regardless of how long it lasted, it happened for the time it did and it was incredibly detrimental because it discouraged other rulesets.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

But I concede to your second point, I would not have as much hatred towards it. But because they did make it official it did 2 things:
1. People new to the community come onto smashboards homepage, see the ruleset and think "wow this looks like the legit stuff, I guess I'll look for tournaments that have this!" and disregard tourneys with other rulesets.
2. Regardless of the sticky rule not being from the URC and regardless of how long it lasted, it happened for the time it did and it was incredibly detrimental because it discouraged other rulesets.

This is essentially the backbone of why people didn't like the sticky rule. It actually did damage to events.

I like the discussion about trying to get more people in the community though. I've heard that facebook advertisement has seen pretty good success.

 

[Dcold]

At a certain point you have to think of the long-term. The way I see it is like this:
Situation Now: X people go to Y tournament, and then there's newcomers who we can call the Z group. Z group doesn't want to attend because of ruleset, so the tournaments keep going on with the same X people going. EVENTUALLY the X people quit and now smash has no future, you NEED to want growth for the smash community cold. At a certain point a TO having to make concessions for the new generation is more effective in order to preserve our community. And to be quite honest, if the TO of Y tournament changed the ruleset to encourage people from the Z group to come, I can't imagine more than 5-10% of people from the X group saying "oh the ruleset has changed, guess I'll stop going."

But I concede to your second point, I would not have as much hatred towards it. But because they did make it official it did 2 things:
1. People new to the community come onto smashboards homepage, see the ruleset and think "wow this looks like the legit stuff, I guess I'll look for tournaments that have this!" and disregard tourneys with other rulesets.
2. Regardless of the sticky rule not being from the URC and regardless of how long it lasted, it happened for the time it did and it was incredibly detrimental because it discouraged other rulesets.

Your first paragraph took exactly what I said and made it more confusing for people to read. The TOs will have to make a change or die out if people don't go, which is exactly what I said. If you choose to not go to the tournament because of that aspect, and it's actually hurting the TO from having a successful tournament, they will be forced to change it or die out/lose money/time. You just agreed with both of my points.

1. Recommended Rulesets [specifically under that name] do the same thing. Because it has a different name does not change.
2. It still was never forced, meaning the problem was in the minds of the TOs that felt pressured to using this ruleset or not get any attendees. But since they feel Unity is the cause of this, that is who the blame is on. Just my opinion. Also the anger should be towards the source, not what came out of it. You can't hate Unity for something it didn't control, and say that it caused its own unpopularity. Misplaced anger.

 

[_GrapE_]

This reminds me of Star Wars. Senate vs Republic.