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The Ultimate SSB4 Character

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by XenoFalcon95, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. XenoFalcon95

    XenoFalcon95
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    hey guys, I made this last night out because it's something I've been thinking about awhile. I tried to make the ultimate SSB4 character using preexisting moves. Feedback is very appreciated. Thanks! ^_^

    ultimate smash 4 character (by xenofalcon95) (also I might be wrong)
    fox's model and movement
    villager's jab
    sheik's f-tilt
    mario's up-tilt
    diddy's d-tilt
    fox's dash attack
    marth's f-smash
    fox's up-smash
    zss's d-smash
    bowser's grab
    dk's cargo throws instead of foreward throw
    bowser's up throw
    ness's back throw
    mario's down throw
    cloud's n-air
    fox's f-air
    rosalina's up-air
    cloud's b-air
    cloud's d-air
    zss's up b (insane kill power, has two angles + priority)
    corrin's side b (priority, range, safe on block, safe on miss and can help with recovery)
    sheik's down b (kill power, speed, safe on block, and good horizontal recovery
    sheik's neutral b (priority, edgeguarding, and fast projectile)
     
  2. PURGE THEM LIKE THE

    PURGE THEM LIKE THE
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    Jab should go to either mac or rosaluma

    There are better up tilts than mario such as fox's

    Down tilt i would give to mewtwo

    Forward smash....mac's is better but there will already be other moves that anti-air or are safe on block so i guess marth's is fine

    Up smash should be mr gw

    Cant decide between mac and zss for down smash

    There are 3 grabs so i would say standing should be the longest range frame 6 grab, dash grab should be falcon's or greninja's, and pivot grab could be bowser or dk

    There are already 2 combo throws so up throw should be mewtwo's

    Fox's forward air isnt even good and since theres already cloud's neutral air for spacing forward air should be either shieks for extended horizontal comboing or mewtwo's for horizontal comboing and a brilliant kill move

    Since theres already a lot of coverage from neutral air i guess rosaluma up air would be a better pick than cloud

    down air should be someone like peach's

    shoryuken kills better than boost kick except when close to the blast zone and is invincible on frame 1 so i would pick it instead
    Or just pick witch twist

    Pin is one of the best side specials but i would also consider having a reflector. It makes those with killing projectiles hesitant to shoot them. I would pick mewtwo's since it also acts as a miniature jump and command grab

    Down special should be witch time

    the real reason you should be picking needles is because they allow you to do tilts out of running
     
    Uffe likes this.
  3. Hotcakes

    Hotcakes
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    You should swap out Mario's up tilt for a stronger anti air since you already have two good combo starters with your forward and down tilts. Ryu's strong up tilt is an excellent anti air and would also include his weak up tilt if you still want another combo starter.

    Forward air should definitely be swapped for something else. Sheik's, Luigi's, and Mewtwo's are all good combo starters with the latter also killing at higher percents. Something more disjointed along the lines of Lucina's or Robin's could also work.

    For neutral special I think that Shulk's is a clear cut above the rest. It enhances the rest of your kit dramatically.

    If you're going to stick to one character's movement specs then I think that Greninja's would be a better choice. His walk speed, run speed, and fall speed are all pretty close to Fox's but he also has significantly better air speed.

    For up smash, I think Game & Watch's is a better choice than Fox's due to its partial invincibility and much lower end lag.

    Since you already have cargo throw and Mario's down throw I think your up throw should be switched to Mewtwo's. Three combo throws seems a bit excessive.

    Bouncing Fish is pretty good but I think opting for a held item instead could really open up a lot of options. Diddy's Banana, Rob's Gyro, and Toon Link's Bombs would all work pretty well.

    Swapping down smash for something else could help. Mario's is extremely fast, hits on both sides, and has little end lag. It might not set up for spikes like Zero Suit's but it still secures kills pretty early with its high knock back growth and low angle.
     
  4. XenoFalcon95

    XenoFalcon95
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    Monado arts are actually kind of not that good, since they all have bad weaknesses and are disabled after you use them. The reason I picked needles is because they're fast and good for edgeguarding. I do kind of agree with mewtwo's upthrow, I think I kind of overdid it with combo throws.
     
  5. Hotcakes

    Hotcakes
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    I'd look again at the downsides of monado arts. Buster lets you dish out 40% more damage in exchange for taking only 13% more. That's a very large difference. You also deal decreased knockback in this mode which increases how long you can extend your strings for.
     
  6. Scribe

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    I feel like Monado Arts on a character with better frame data would probably be way more busted than they are on Shulk. Just look at how favorable the Shulk-Kirby matchup is for Kirby

    And I think MagicScrumpy brought this up in his "ultimate spacie" video for Melee, but move synergy is also an important consideration. Just giving a character the best move in the game for each move slot might not be as good as you'd expect if the rest of their kit prevents them from fully taking advantage of what makes it good on the character it's from
     
  7. Frection

    Frection
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    It's not about better frame data. It's about ZSS down smash into Finishing Touch while in Smash mode. Literally any kill-confirm setup, even before considering character combinations, becomes completely overpowered once you consider Smash Monado Art.
     
    #7 Frection, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  8. Scribe

    Scribe
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    See, I was thinking about, like, how Kirby has a loop with jump monado activated, and stuff like that.
     
  9. SwagGuy99

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    Captain Falcon's models and attributes except with Mario's falling speed
    Villager's jab
    Sheik's f-tilt
    Mario's up and down tilts
    Meta Knight's dash attack
    Luigi's up smash and forward smash
    DK's down smash
    Bowser's grab
    DK's forward throw
    Dr. Mario's forward and back throws
    Luigi's down throw
    Bowser's up throw
    Luigi's n-air, f-air
    Captain Falcon's u-air
    Falco's d-air
    ZSS's up b
    Corrin's side b
    Lucas's down b
    Shulk's neutral b

    Luigi's d-throw and aerial combo tools are here so comboing isn't an issue. Kill power isn't an issue with the knockback scaling on forward and up smash along with DK's down smash for damage and knockback combined. Dr. Mario's throws are good KOing options and Bowser's up throw combos into Rosa's up air. Falcon's high speed and jump height allow maneuverability and Meta Knight's dash attack allows for combos. Falcon's up air works with boost kicks and Corrin's side B allows for stage control. Lucas's down b allows healing and monado arts are just OP. All tilts here are also combo starters and Dair is a reliable meteor smash.
     
    #9 SwagGuy99, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  10. Gryphon827

    Gryphon827
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    There are definitely better options for all of these, and more opportunities to make them as busted as possible.

    Jab: Ganondorf
    F-smash: Little Mac
    F-throw: Mewtwo, with every Shadow Ball doing as much damage as his fully charged neutral special (along with the last hit doing as much knockback)
    Nair: Mewtwo
    Fair: Falcon
    Up air: Zelda
    Bair: Zelda, with the sourspot given her sweetspot's data
    Dair: Ganondorf
    Side B: Cloud (Limit)
    Neutral B: Little Mac (KO Punch, always fully charged)
     
    #10 Gryphon827, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  11. Scribe

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    I think that part of the point is that the moves would work exactly like they do in Smash 4, so Zelda Bair but the entire thing is a sweetspot, or being able to use KO Punch or Limit Cross Slash without having to build up meter wouldn't be in the spirit of it.

    Plus it seems like you're just looking at which moves hit the hardest, rather than their frame data or overall utility. M2 nair has the most compelling argument in its favor, but that depends on what you're looking for - Cloud nair is a far better tool for spacing, but M2 nair generally seems better for covering getup options. It depends on whether you want something that's better in the neutral or when the opponent's in disadvantage state.

    Falcon fair I could also see over Fox fair, though I feel like there'd probably be better options than both of those.
     
  12. MercuryPenny

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    mario's up tilt is unsafe on hit at low percents (especially against fastfallers) and doesn't combo into anything for very long. fox and bayo have way better combo starters/extenders that work for longer and won't get you punished at 0%

    shiek fair
     
  13. Scribe

    Scribe
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    Yeah. Even if you're absolutely dead set on having one that hits like a truck, there's Mewtwo fair.
     
    #13 Scribe, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  14. Frection

    Frection
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    You don't want more than one move fulfilling the same purpose - like Sheik Ftilt and Mario Utilt on the same character. It's better to consider moves that would complement each other.
    Example: ZSS Dsmash into footstool, then fastfall with Fox's speed to jab lock with sourspot Zelda Dair. That lets you do something very similar to the 3DS infinite on Robin (https://youtu.be/VpHDN522MDo), which usually wouldn't be possible as ZSS goes too high to jab lock people after a footstool.
    There's plenty of ways you could completely break the game if you put some thought into it...
     
  15. teluoborg

    teluoborg
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    Let's not forget that every move has the bullet arts property. So if your godforsaken abomination of a character uses his Cloud-Nair and keeps the A button held he will keep rotating his gigantic sword for seconds, simultaneously firing bullets from the blade in every direction.
     
    Frection and Zero Soul like this.

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