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The Ultimate Life Form ~ Shadow the Hedgehog for Smash Ultimate! (Maria...)
- Thread starter TCT~Phantom
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magiciandude
Smash Journeyman
Guys, guys, boxes are for Snake, not theories.
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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True that lol
VioletSmashfan
Smash Ace
spoilerowl
Smash Journeyman
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Blog theory adjusts depending on the pacing. Less newcomers a week just means there are less newcomers predicted by it. There's not really anything that can prove or disprove it.
magiciandude
Smash Journeyman
Uh oh guys, looks like Shadow is upset about being an AT for the past two games and is now impatient. Quickly Sakurai, confirm or we're all doomed!
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xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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Shadow want that DAMN smash invitation already lolUh oh guys, looks like Shadow is upset about being an AT for the past two games and is now impatient. Quickly Sakurai, confirm or we're all doomed!
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Though he can't get that Damn Smash 4 invitation anymore.
AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea
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Good post, overall. Not to be rude, but most of these points we've pretty much already talked about at one point or another, though your post puts it all together. It really puts things into perspective about how Shadow seems like a real possibility, box/card/whatever theories aside. I'm still on the fence about Shadow being a semi-clone like Isabelle, because Isabelle was a bit of a special case, to me anyway. She's incredibly popular in the Animal Crossing fandom and pretty much took over as its mascot, and she was a first-party, so she kinda has more priority over Shadow in terms of making a unique character.
I also take Sakurai's statement about defining and echo fighter and a semi-clone to be someone who both has different proportions AND has a different personality compared to a similar character. Shadow is definitely different personality wise, but it's really impossible to ignore that he pretty much has the same proportions as Sonic. Don't forget that the character devs have more elbow room for making echoes than we originally thought. Look at Chrom or Dark Samus. They can tweak Shadow's animations as long as they still fit Sonic's hitboxes, for example trading Sonic's wind-up punch FSmash with that back-handed fist attack he does in Sonic Battle, maybe even add some special effects to it, and give him one or two special moves from other characters. I think he'd definitely win the award for 'most unique echo' if that ends up being the case. I'd be ecstatic if he's a semi-clone though, but I don't want to get my hopes up only to get disappointed.
I also take Sakurai's statement about defining and echo fighter and a semi-clone to be someone who both has different proportions AND has a different personality compared to a similar character. Shadow is definitely different personality wise, but it's really impossible to ignore that he pretty much has the same proportions as Sonic. Don't forget that the character devs have more elbow room for making echoes than we originally thought. Look at Chrom or Dark Samus. They can tweak Shadow's animations as long as they still fit Sonic's hitboxes, for example trading Sonic's wind-up punch FSmash with that back-handed fist attack he does in Sonic Battle, maybe even add some special effects to it, and give him one or two special moves from other characters. I think he'd definitely win the award for 'most unique echo' if that ends up being the case. I'd be ecstatic if he's a semi-clone though, but I don't want to get my hopes up only to get disappointed.
Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
I honestly am pretty positive Shadow is getting in. Likely an echo especially being next week is the 11th anniversary since Sonic's reveal in Brawl. What better time to do it then now with the possibility of a duo reveal with Tails?
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It's more like she couldn't be an Echo due to having different proportions. Besides that, the moveset didn't fit her personality so it needed tweaks. The proportions part is still the most key to her being a semi-clone.
It's not that simple. You don't need different proportions to be a semi-clone. You just need the same ones to be an Echo. Dr. Mario is a clone(and arguably a semi-clone) but has the same proportions. Pichu actually does not, only have a similar bodyshape.
You need to have the same proportions to be an echo. Semi-clones simply are characters who were given enough differences to not share the same moveset(mostly) regardless of proportions. It's two unrelated things for development. In fact, the only character in Melee to not have the same proportions was Pichu as is. Falco was actually given a new model to fit the clone model, making him easier to developer.
But yeah, if they can tweak his animations to better fit his personality without changing too much, he can still be an echo. Though a regular clone(not semi-clone) is still possible if he takes a bit more time. But it's not like he needs it. It depends how much effort is needed to change his animations to better fit his characterization at this point. That's really the only thing that'll change whether he's an echo, clone, or semi-clone.
GlitchWarrior
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Four days left, are you guys ready! Let a dark Shadow fall over these fools; we are almost assured our goal.
(~Lol what was that?)
Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to play some Sonic 3. Time to go find that **** fourth chaos emerald.
(~Lol what was that?)
Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to play some Sonic 3. Time to go find that **** fourth chaos emerald.
Tempest
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I really hope Shadow the hedgehog makes his way into Super Smash Bros Ultimate.
At this point I think he could be either a echo. semi-clone or even his own unique fighter, and honestly I don't mind which type he is. I think for the fact he can be an echo fighter does actually raise his chances to be playable, but the only question in my mind right now is if Sakurai would put him in the base-game or if he would be reserved for DLC.
Whenever a new smash bros game is announced, I always love browsing the internet and reading fan speculation. Doing a basic internet search will reveal that he actually is a highly speculated character to appear, which is good to see.
Fingers crossed Shadow the hedgehog is playable Super Smash Bros Ultimate, the more sonic characters the merrier. I 100% support him to be playable.
At this point I think he could be either a echo. semi-clone or even his own unique fighter, and honestly I don't mind which type he is. I think for the fact he can be an echo fighter does actually raise his chances to be playable, but the only question in my mind right now is if Sakurai would put him in the base-game or if he would be reserved for DLC.
Whenever a new smash bros game is announced, I always love browsing the internet and reading fan speculation. Doing a basic internet search will reveal that he actually is a highly speculated character to appear, which is good to see.
Fingers crossed Shadow the hedgehog is playable Super Smash Bros Ultimate, the more sonic characters the merrier. I 100% support him to be playable.
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Honestly I love how Shadow went form this meme pick to a top speculated character. The advent of echos is such a good thing, we have grown so much since June.
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Not so much Echoes as the fact that we finally see a 3rd party franchise get two characters. That drummed up hope for him far more. Echo or not, that was the only big argument people had against him that wasn't "cause somebody else is better, imo".
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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I know this is random but does anyone else get annoyed when someone say “shadow should play exactly like sonic in smash because in SA2 he was a sonic clone”. I feel that people are down playing Shadow. Yes in SA2 he was a clone gameplay wise but in SA2 he the one started using chaos control before sonic did and he had chaos spear in the multiplayer. Plus I feel when people say this they forget Shadow have chaos powers :/
SonicMario
Smash Master
I think part of it though is the chaos powers aside from cutscenes were seen in only games that are not very well received. His spin-off game and Sonic 06 (Where much of Shadow's chaos powers are shown in both games) are considered black marks of the franchise and for some people if Shadow must be in Smash. Being a Sonic echo would at least harken back closer to SA2 (Where for the exception of cutscenes and the chaos spear in boss fights and multiplayer barely uses chaos powers) where Shadow was at peak popularity since he was just as fun to play as Sonic was since they generally played the same.
He should at least be a Chrom-level echo where he has a different recovery but I wouldn't see anything too wrong with him keeping Homing Attack and even both of the Spin dashes.
Personally I feel like he should at least have at least one variant of Chaos Control (Either slow down opponents like Bayo's witch time, or just a Mewtwo teleport) and Chaos Spear if that's the case, since both of those attacks were present in SA2. But even then, a teleport recovery will be enough for me. The homing attack should definitely stay since he's always had it, but him having two spindashes just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth since he never had a Classic-style spindash, to my knowledge anyway.
On a different note, I was looking at all of Shadow's moves in Sonic Battle and... wow. There's so many move list ideas you can get from just that game alone. Kinda wish I got the chance to play it.
On a different note, I was looking at all of Shadow's moves in Sonic Battle and... wow. There's so many move list ideas you can get from just that game alone. Kinda wish I got the chance to play it.
SonicMario
Smash Master
Someone with Sonic's speed + Bayo's witch time would be so damn OP :V And honestly I wouldn't want Shadow to essentially invalidate using Sonic competitively that way. I don't watch many competitive matches anyway, but it'd rub me the wrong way that Shadow gets basically some of the best tools of both of the other Sega characters (Sonic and Bayonetta) and get that overuse in tournaments. Also Shadow still spin dashed in Sonic Adventure 2 just fine. And whether you guys like it or not, the two spin dashes have a purpose in Sonic's moveset (Mainly for mix-ups and confusing the opponent)
TerminatorLOL
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It's not really that they forgot that he had these powers, its more that being a copy of Sonic (like in his first and last game) is a big part of why a lot people want/expect him to be in the game as an echo. Because being a echo of Sonic is accurate to how he plays in his games and makes him a low effort addition to the roster (no wasted slot complaints)
Still, I'm sure that there are plenty of people that would prefer him to at least get the
treatment and maybe get one or two of his Chaos powers in his move set. (Not representing his Chaos Control at all would be a crime)Shadow Supporters: 139
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It'd definitely be a nightmare to fight a character with Sonic's speed with Bayo's Witch Time, hah. I wasn't too serious when I said that, sorry.
And by 'Classic spindash', I meant Sonic's down b, the one where you have to rapidly mash to charge up, like in the originals. His side b version is more akin to games like SA1 and 2, where you just hold the button to charge. That's the one I would be fine with keeping. I'm not a Sonic player myself, but I'm pretty sure the down b version is vastly inferior because unlike the side b version, you can't shield cancel it, which made the side b version so good for mixups and such in Smash 4. I don't think there was really any combo potential with it, either. I wasn't around for the competitive Brawl scene, so I don't know if there really was any reason to use the down b version over the side b version. Sonic was a bit too hit-and-run for me in Smash 4, which rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer him more like a rushdown character that can overwhelm the opponent with speed, which I hope is the case for Shadow. They seem to be rebuilding Sonic to be that way in Ultimate, so who knows.
And by 'Classic spindash', I meant Sonic's down b, the one where you have to rapidly mash to charge up, like in the originals. His side b version is more akin to games like SA1 and 2, where you just hold the button to charge. That's the one I would be fine with keeping. I'm not a Sonic player myself, but I'm pretty sure the down b version is vastly inferior because unlike the side b version, you can't shield cancel it, which made the side b version so good for mixups and such in Smash 4. I don't think there was really any combo potential with it, either. I wasn't around for the competitive Brawl scene, so I don't know if there really was any reason to use the down b version over the side b version. Sonic was a bit too hit-and-run for me in Smash 4, which rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer him more like a rushdown character that can overwhelm the opponent with speed, which I hope is the case for Shadow. They seem to be rebuilding Sonic to be that way in Ultimate, so who knows.
verysleepywolf
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There is plenty of good reason to get semi-clone Shadow. Sonic would be a stale character in comparison if Shadow came equipped with his chaos powers.
Despite being a big Tails and Knuckles purist, I can admit Shadow would be pretty rad. We'll see what happens.
Despite being a big Tails and Knuckles purist, I can admit Shadow would be pretty rad. We'll see what happens.
SonicMario
Smash Master
I'm still going to be using Sonic myself more though either way. I just prefer Sonic as a character much more. I also don't hate Sonic's moveset really.
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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Shadow might just use chaos control in his final smash. I really don’t want shadow to be op at the point that people will hate him and people who would main shadow get thrown under the bus. I’m just trusting sakurai with shadow if he does make it in the game.
Sonic battle is such a underrated game people seem to forget about it. It was actually my childhood game and I spent hours on it. Although shadow gave me a hard time in the story mode by just fighting him. -_- he was so ridiculous strong in that game. Surprised Sakurai did not pull some move sets for sonic in that game and it would be nice if he would pull movesets for shadow from that game too but I highly doubt it. The shadow in legacy xp had some moves from that game and it just puts a smile on my face that someone did not forget that game.
Luigifan18
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Heh, I agree, I've spent several hours on that game.
7NATOR
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I believe that there are a few references to that game, Sonic's Down air might be referencing p\one of the attacks in that game (though Sonic battle didn't have Sonic go down to the floor though). There was also an Emerl Sticker in Brawl, so Sakurai is aware of Sonic Battle
Anyways No Sonic Echo, Shadow no echo. If you don't want to invalidate sonic by giving Shadow a witch Time or Chaos Spear, then just slow him down, and give him his Chaos Powers yeah. Make Sonic about his Speed and spinning and Shadow more about his Power and Chaos Abilities. Sonic can stay having TWO Spindashes. Shadow doesn't need that at all.
Don't need Shadow doing the splits for his Down smash, nor doing a Cartoony Wind up Punch for his Forward Smash. give him his Sonic Battle moves. If Sakurai used Sonic the fighters for a good portion of Sonic's moves, i can see him do the same with Shadow with Sonic battle. Give Shadow his Chaos boost Mechanic he had in 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog. Give him the Chaos Spear, the Chaos Blast, the Chaos control. hell he can even use techniques sonic doesn't do in Smash like the Light Speed Dash, the Boost, the Stomp, Black Tornado. Isabelle is using stuff from Animal Crossing Villager doesn't use, why not do the same thing with Shadow. Shoot
Tempest
Smash Cadet
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That's why I was very happy with the reveal of Richter, as it debunked one of the "unwritten rules" that fans always create in their head. Before Richter, people on the internet would always use as an argument that there can only be one character per third party franchise which to me I found to be complete utter garbage. It's those same people who thought cloud could never make it into smash due to him not being a predominant final fantasy character on a Nintendo System.
If Richter Belmont can make his way into smash, there certainly should not be any reason as to why shadow can't.
Mastermiine
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Call me desperate but I hope shadow/tails are reviled this week.
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Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead.
Yeah, I get ya. Mind you, so far all we know is that 3rd party franchises might only get Echoes for their second character, but that's just a pattern(or will be when Ken shows up, at least). I feel Richter is a special case compared to others. As in, he's the only one that has to be an Echo due to the circumstance behind how Simon was made(being a mishmash of his and Richter's moves). Ken and Shadow still make a ton of sense as Echoes, though, it's just not the same reasoning behind it as what Castlevania showed.
SonicMario
Smash Master
They can change some of the animations that would be a little "goofy" for Shadow to use like the wind-up punch to a more regular forward smash punch.
And Shadow still has a two-tailed fox in the room regarding possible Sonic uniques/semi-clones. Who has a Mii costume upgrade in role unaccounted for just like how Shadow is an unaccounted for Assist Trophy right now. They could even be announced together with Tails as an Isabelle style semi-clone and Shadow as Sonic's echo. (Doubt that happens this week for October 10th like some speculated. I feel like we would of already been made aware of an October 10th reveal happening by now. Though I suppose there is still room for it to be announced tomorrow) Even if it takes til' DLC for one or both to make it.
In short. If Sonic gets an Echo, it's going to be Shadow. If Sonic gets a Semi-clone/Unique, there's a decent chance it's Tails as we have Knuckles accounted for and the echo spot is a perfect fit for Shadow's upgrade.
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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As much as I would love a unique shadow because he have the potential sadly we are probably just getting a echo fighter of shadow. Probably a chrom level echo fighter. However if he does become unique or a semi-clone but still consider unique then you have my permission to message me “I TOLD YOU SO!” on this thread.
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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Maybe there will be a announcement Wednesday? And get a direct Thursday. Idk I think I’m being alittle too hopeful..
I hope bro.
Aeon Lupin
Survival of the fittest
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I'm pretty confident for an announcement tomorrow. The bundle comes out November 2nd, so the missing spots need to be accounted for before then.
xAquaCrystal
Smash Journeyman
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I hope so. This lack of smash news is killing me lol
smash puffle
Smash Ace
I completely forgot about that LOL.
SonicMario
Smash Master
I kind of already mentioned this in the Tails thread but thought I'd make it a common courtesy to mention it here too.
It is now October 10th, 11 years since Sonic was confirmed for Brawl!
We got nothing Sonic Smash related at all for this day as neither the music track nor the stage was Sonic related. Nor did some kind of special announcement come and probably isn't happening this week. But that's not to say we can't still celebrate what was a great day for Smash and Sonic fans alike.
So where were you when Sonic was confirmed for Brawl?
It is now October 10th, 11 years since Sonic was confirmed for Brawl!
We got nothing Sonic Smash related at all for this day as neither the music track nor the stage was Sonic related. Nor did some kind of special announcement come and probably isn't happening this week. But that's not to say we can't still celebrate what was a great day for Smash and Sonic fans alike.
So where were you when Sonic was confirmed for Brawl?