The ULTIMATE KONG--Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies

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I think Klaptrap being an assist trophy and not Dixie is very telling. Although I wish Lanky Kong was the assist trophy. (I love Klaptrap, but he's already in a stage)
My only question is this. Is she in Diddy Kong’s FS? Not having her as atleast an Hybrid Echo would kinda surprise me but I’m honestly not sure if she makes the cut. Might be better to root for her as DLC as a full original character. I’m kinda torn by this. Making her an IC type character with Kiddie Kong is still an option too. Hmmmmm so much speculation to be had here.
 
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I'm honestly very happy to see so much support for Dixie flood in after K. Rool's reveal. I'll have to comb through the posts to list everyone, but as it stands this is great news.

So the direct has come and gone. I personally loved everything about both trailers, but I do feel bad for Luigi; worst night of his life no doubt. There was so much juicy content to digest and here's my thoughts on some of them:

So with Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus we see that Sakurai's serious about Echoes, and although we have "not too many new characters," we'll have a healthy amount of Echoes, and some of them can have a mix of different fighters as we've learned with Chrom. We also saw that newcomers from the same series can be revealed separately thanks to Ridley and Dark Samus, so taking all this into account, my conclusions are that we're not done with Echoes yet as both Nintendo and Guests can get them (Shadow and Ryu's Ken come to mind), and Dixie's still a possibility.

Now when it comes to Dixie, she has a chance to step in as an Echo, a Semi-Clone or Unique. A lot of people are leaning in the Echo direction, which is fine; I very much want the latter but I'm not begrudging anyone who thinks she will be. That said, our current understanding of the game points towards Echo for her, but we can't throw out the other 2 possibilities (or 4 actually, because AT and No-Show are still there) because those also stand a good chance.

If she is a bona-fide Echo, the best time to show up would've been during K. Rool's trailer, as he's her arch nemesis too. A straight-up Echo could've got the Dark Pit style reveal (show up at the very end), a Lucina style (thought to be the main focus until the unique newcomer arrives) or Richter style (jumps in when the hero's on the ropes) but she didn't show up at all. Barring AT or No-Show status, 2/3 of those options were on the table and still possible in a later direct, or she could get the Dark Samus, etc reveal too. I don't want an Echo out of her, but as it stands the idea is still alive and well.

If she's a Semi-Clone or Unique, then she's likely getting a trailer of her own to showcase it. As good as it would've been to show her with K. Rool, we gotta keep in mind that his trailer was meant to close the Direct. They bookended the presentation with a new unique fighter, 3 Echoes and then 1 more unique. If Dixie's in, whether she's an Echo or not it might've disrupted the flow they were aiming for, despite her best shot as an Echo to be shown was during K. Rool's debut. It's also worth noting that in order of appearance, it's DK, Diddy, K. Rool, Dixie in their home series, so while the 3 Kongs are the main trio throughout the games, that's their order of debut and it's very possible they're following the same. The good news about the current situation is that Echo or Unique are 50/50 here. No Echo has gotten a trailer all to themselves, and even the trailers that did start with an Echo (Lucina's) shifted focus to the Unique character (Robin) or mainly featured said character (Simon) until it was time for the Echo to shine. I think that if Dixie shows up with a trailer of her own she's not an Echo, but they could easily show her like they showed Dark Samus, which is why I'm 50/50 overall. This leans to a Bowser Jr scenario, who (as I say often) was expected to be a clone, then thought deconfirmed when Rosalina showed up and y'all know the rest.

Looking at the characters so far, we've got 4 Uniques and 4 Echoes; an even split, and we know there's not too many new characters. What we don't know is the exact number; I'm gonna say 12 at most and 10 at least, Echoes included. The good news is that a massive number of characters got their fates revealed, so the pool of potential is getting shallow, which makes Dixie stand out a lot more, especially now that K. Rool and Ridley no longer dominate speculation. I'm still confident about Dixie, and I would really like her to be Unique or Wolf-Level at worst. I'll be disappointed if she's an Echo, and I simply won't play as her if that's the case.
She will. Honestly, after seeing the final tidbit of K. Rool's trailer — and I know I might be setting myself up for disappointment — I am expecting her to show up next time. There is no reason for that tidbit with K. Rool burying the kongs otherwise (and it is honestly nothing like the Kredits fake out from DKC1).

Of course, it is not confirmed until it happens but I am confident and I haven't been confident about a fighter getting in so far (Smash 4 traumatized me :p).
THAT'S interesting! I didn't even think about this--they're in a sense captured, and not just DK but Diddy too. Only one Kong can save them...and I'm not talking about Kiddy LOL.
 

Reila

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My only question is this. Is she in Diddy Kong’s FS? Not having her as atleast an Hybrid Echo would kinda surprise me but I’m honestly not sure if she makes the cut. Might be better to root for her as DLC as a full original character. I’m kinda torn by this. Making her an IC type character with Kiddie Kong is still an option too. Hmmmmm so much speculation to be had here.
We don't even know if there will be DLC. Honestly, they wanting to reveal all fighters before release lead me to believe they just want to be done with the project. I mean, it is a massive project, after all. I mean, DLC is likely but not confirmed, so there is zero reason to speculate about it at this point.

The whole roster wasn't revealed yet, so Dixie still has a shot.

Also, why in the hell would she be part of Diddy's Final Smash?
Only one Kong can save them...and I'm not talking about Kiddy LOL.
 
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We don't even know if there will be DLC. Honestly, they wanting to reveal all fighters before release lead me to believe they just want to be done with the project. I mean, it is a massive project, after all. I mean, DLC is likely but not confirmed, so there is zero reason to speculate about it at this point.

The whole roster wasn't revealed yet, so Dixie still has a shot.

Also, why in the hell would she be part of Diddy's Final Smash?

Dude I don’t know why she’d be apart of Diddys FS. I mean maybe because they starred in a couple games together and they could do some boombox/guitar jam cutscene as Diddys FS? All I’m saying is I wouldn’t count it out. I need to see Diddys FS though.
 

Reila

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Dude I don’t know why she’d be apart of Diddys FS. I mean maybe because they starred in a couple games together and they could do some boombox/guitar jam cutscene as Diddys FS? All I’m saying is I wouldn’t count it out. I need to see Diddys FS though.
You are not wrong in not counting out the possibility. It just seems super random.

Speaking of guitar jam, I would expect it to be Dixie Kong's final smash if she is included as an echo fighter. If she is unique, the guitar HAS to be part of the moveset. Please, Samurai.
 
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Dude I don’t know why she’d be apart of Diddys FS. I mean maybe because they starred in a couple games together and they could do some boombox/guitar jam cutscene as Diddys FS? All I’m saying is I wouldn’t count it out. I need to see Diddys FS though.
To be honest I doubt it but I wouldn't count it out either so, fair enough.
 
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I'm a bit torn on this situation.

On one hand, Dixie definitely has the tools to become a more interesting character the more she is differentiated from Diddy.
We've hopefully all seen BirthNote's and Veemon's movesets (and if not, what's wrong with you?) and what they can do with the simian acrobat style and a moveset that doesn't capitalise on Dixie's "extra limb" is missed potential, so to speak.

On the other hand, Daisy's moveset, which as recent reveals show include Peach's Turnips, includes several elements that Daisy never or barely interacted with (including two special moves and the entire floating schtick), whereas there were viable alternatives that would suit Daisy better.
So as a fan of Daisy, it's annoying to see that Dixie would specifically be a semi-clone instead of an Echo, or is requested to be so.

I know that that sentiment is based on spite and Dixie is still one of my most wanted, but I'm very much content with giving her a one-on-one copy of Diddy's moveset (albeit using her hair instead of the rocketbarrel to charge up her UpB) and I can't help but feel a bit of salt everytime someone suggests that Dixie could never be a pure Echo.
 

zferolie

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With CHrom being a mix of Roy and Ike it seems(at least it seems he has Ikes Up B and the rest is Roy), I can see Dixie kong being a clone of diddy still, and getting Donkey Kong's Up B. It would fit her really well, and if could be slightly modified as maybe it does low damage but goes more vertical at first then has a glide down afterwards.
 

Reila

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I'm a bit torn on this situation.

On one hand, Dixie definitely has the tools to become a more interesting character the more she is differentiated from Diddy.
We've hopefully all seen BirthNote's and Veemon's movesets (and if not, what's wrong with you?) and what they can do with the simian acrobat style and a moveset that doesn't capitalise on Dixie's "extra limb" is missed potential, so to speak.

On the other hand, Daisy's moveset, which as recent reveals show include Peach's Turnips, includes several elements that Daisy never or barely interacted with (including two special moves and the entire floating schtick), whereas there were viable alternatives that would suit Daisy better.
So as a fan of Daisy, it's annoying to see that Dixie would specifically be a semi-clone instead of an Echo, or is requested to be so.

I know that that sentiment is based on spite and Dixie is still one of my most wanted, but I'm very much content with giving her a one-on-one copy of Diddy's moveset (albeit using her hair instead of the rocketbarrel to charge up her UpB) and I can't help but feel a bit of salt everytime someone suggests that Dixie could never be a pure Echo.
The thing is Dixie is not some random kong from the DK universe. She is one of the main kongs. She can't be compared to someone like Daisy. While she might show up as an echo, or a Chrom-like echo, the comparison with Daisy is flawed (it was flawed when Daisy was revealed as an echo and still is).
 
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Vez

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I'm a bit torn on this situation.

On one hand, Dixie definitely has the tools to become a more interesting character the more she is differentiated from Diddy.
We've hopefully all seen BirthNote's and Veemon's movesets (and if not, what's wrong with you?) and what they can do with the simian acrobat style and a moveset that doesn't capitalise on Dixie's "extra limb" is missed potential, so to speak.

On the other hand, Daisy's moveset, which as recent reveals show include Peach's Turnips, includes several elements that Daisy never or barely interacted with (including two special moves and the entire floating schtick), whereas there were viable alternatives that would suit Daisy better.
So as a fan of Daisy, it's annoying to see that Dixie would specifically be a semi-clone instead of an Echo, or is requested to be so.

I know that that sentiment is based on spite and Dixie is still one of my most wanted, but I'm very much content with giving her a one-on-one copy of Diddy's moveset (albeit using her hair instead of the rocketbarrel to charge up her UpB) and I can't help but feel a bit of salt everytime someone suggests that Dixie could never be a pure Echo.
The difference between the two is that Daisy originated as a clone of Peach and she's purely been a non-action based character stuck in the Mario sports titles until Super Mario Run. This is not the case with Dixie who never originated as a clone. In her first playable appearance she was much more sluggish than Diddy and had her own distinct abilities and attacks.

Even in Tropical Freeze where Diddy, Dixie and Cranky all have identical controls and speed, she has completely different animations and abilities from him. The only attack that is identical is her gun. Despite her appearance she's NOT just a female version of Diddy, so having her be an echo really rubs me the wrong way.
 
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I remember someone saying this on another board, but apparently Sakurai likes to keep characters with similar silhouettes the same in terms of move set, as that creates less confusion for new players. This is why Lucas shares many of Ness’s moves. Since Dixie is very close to Diddy in terms of model, he may try to keep them roughly the same with minor variations.

My best guess for Dixie is that we’ll get a Doctor Mario situation where some moves are changed, but ultimately they are really just a clone of another character. Obviously Dixie isn’t known for the barrel jet pack, so hopefully her hair will be her recovery, change a few things like the Final Smash, taunts, and her having a bubblegum gun that maybe doesn’t charge, and she’d probably make for at least a decent adaptation.
 

GAINAX

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I am 100% sure she will make it as a Diddy hybrid echo and use Donkey Kong's Up B attack. We know Diddy's tail attacks have been changed and we now know echoes can borrow other character's moves, ala Chrom. Donkey Kong's recovery is VERY similar to Dixie's hair spin in DKC.
 
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The thing is Dixie is not some random kong from the DK universe. She is one of the main kongs. She can't be compared to someone like Daisy. While she might show up as an echo, or a Chrom-like echo, the comparison with Daisy is flawed (it was flawed when Daisy was revealed as an echo and still is).
As far as importance goes, yes, Dixie goes above and beyond. But in a game where newcomer derivatives all follow the newly-set up Echo brand, asking for Dixie to be an exception and be a semi-clone with a wishlist of things she HAS to do feels weird when other Echoes aren't 100% faithful either (with Dark Samus having potential of her own as shown in the AT, and Daisy being the best example of her using stuff she never did to fit the Echo predicament)

Importance has little to do with it in my opinion. Clones and derivatives all play by the same Echo rules and so far I have little reason to believe that Dixie would need to bend those rules in order to be in the game.

The difference between the two is that Daisy originated as a clone of Peach and she's purely been a non-action based character stuck in the Mario sports titles until Super Mario Run. This is not the case with Dixie who never originated as a clone. In her first playable appearance she was much more sluggish than Diddy and had her own distinct abilities and attacks.

Even in Tropical Freeze where Diddy, Dixie and Cranky all have identical controls and speed, she has completely different animations and abilities from him. The only attack that is identical is her gun. Despite her appearance she's NOT just a female version of Diddy, so having her be an echo really rubs me the wrong way.
I've noted the difference of Daisy's "Using moves she was never associated with" and Dixie's possible "Not using moves she's directly associated with" before, and that's a viable complaint. But now that Helicopter Spin is back on the table thanks to Chrom, I feel it is not inexcusable for Dixie to use Diddy's moveset because aside from Rocket Barrel, nothing in there is really exclusive to Diddy (Like Monkey Flip and Banana Peel aren't Diddy's signature moves)! The weird part would come when Dixie's abilities wouldn't take a front seat, but with Helicopter Spin UpB I feel that'd be good enough for a clone.

Her personality has all room to shine through in the animations still.

That said, if Dixie turns out to be fully unique, I wouldn't complain. With Smash Ultimate movesets being much less gimmicky than Smash 4's, she can truly be a great momentum-based playstyle.

But if she's a Diddy derivative, then she's gonna be an Echo. (Or, at least, it'd piss me off if she would suddenly be a semi-clone)
 
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I think Klaptrap being an assist trophy and not Dixie is very telling. Although I wish Lanky Kong was the assist trophy. (I love Klaptrap, but he's already in a stage)
Honestly, that would annoy me a little, since I would prefer him to be playable. Having the animal buddies as ATs would be nice, though.
 

Vez

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I'm not discounting the possibility that she actually will be an echo, it would just be hugely disappointing to me and I think like BirthNote I just wouldn't play as her.

I actually don't mind if she has some of Diddy's attacks, but I want her to feel like her own character as well.
 
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KingZing

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Looking back, it's bizarre Dixie wasn't shown in the K. Rool reveal. Still hoping for her though, as it seems there are still some echos to announce. The more DK stuff we get, the better!
 

Reila

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I'm not discounting the possibility that she actually will be an echo, it would just be hugely disappointing to me and I think like BirthNote I just wouldn't play as her.

I actually don't mind if she has some of Diddy's attacks, but I want her to feel like her own character as well.
Yeah. I mean, I am okay with a few moves being shared by both, since they are both chimps and despite Dixie flying, they do play relatively similar in DKC2. But an echo fighter would be disappointing, for sure.

That said, I will be glad if she gets in either way, (but please be at least what Lucas is to Ness) because I believe if there is a new Smash after Ultimate, they will focus on fleshing out the echo fighters, since they can't just focus on newcomers anymore (roster too big, most relevant folks are already playable).
 

GAINAX

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Yeah. I mean, I am okay with a few moves being shared by both, since they are both chimps and despite Dixie flying, they do play relatively similar in DKC2. But an echo fighter would be disappointing, for sure.

That said, I will be glad if she gets in either way, (but please be at least what Lucas is to Ness) because I believe if there is a new Smash after Ultimate, they will focus on fleshing out the echo fighters, since they can't just focus on newcomers anymore (roster too big, most relevant folks are already playable).
Isn't Diddy a spider monkey and not a chimp? :estatic:
 

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I kind of wonder if Dixie should really be an Echo though? It certainly isn't necessary, but I see a lot of players suggesting it'd be a good idea and I just don't understand. I can see her being a Doctor Mario-like character, but never an Echo. She represents way too much in the series to be given that treatment, and is capable of (at the very least) having a different grab, a different pummel, all different specials, different throws, and if we are going to get nitty-gritty, all different aerials with different hit-boxes. If she shares a few tilts and other attributes, so be it, but it's far from an Echo. We also need to remember what a stellar job Sakurai has done in terms of minor details with characters like Simon Belmont and King K. Rool (and in general). If Sakurai adds her, I doubt he will half-*** her given the level of fan service we're getting.

And it's because of the above logic that I think a lot of the Echo suggestions stem from people's growing anxiety that we're running out of time and Dixie hasn't shown up yet. These people would rather see her represented at all for launch, even if it means she's an altered Echo, than left out of the game completely, and this is understandable.

Personally I'm not worried for Dixie, and think she's in the game at this point. King K. Rool's inclusion does not hinder her, but helps her because Donkey Kong is no longer that "forgotten franchise". I would have liked to see her pop out at the end of K. Rool's trailer, I won't lie, but perhaps in her reveal trailer the 3 Kongs will corner K. Rool in an epic showdown with Dixie being the driving force?
 
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Reila

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Isn't Diddy a spider monkey and not a chimp? :estatic:
He is actually Dracula's ******* son, but keep it a secret.

(TIL the word b*st*rd is censored)

--

Can someone tell me who else from the "leak" hasn't shown yet? Some random arbitrary Gen 7 Pokémon and Isabelle? Or is there more?
 
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The difference between the two is that Daisy originated as a clone of Peach and she's purely been a non-action based character stuck in the Mario sports titles until Super Mario Run. This is not the case with Dixie who never originated as a clone. In her first playable appearance she was much more sluggish than Diddy and had her own distinct abilities and attacks.

Even in Tropical Freeze where Diddy, Dixie and Cranky all have identical controls and speed, she has completely different animations and abilities from him. The only attack that is identical is her gun. Despite her appearance she's NOT just a female version of Diddy, so having her be an echo really rubs me the wrong way.
That's exactly my gripe too. I'm obviously biased but I wanna see the 3 Kongs in as unique fighters. Clones used to be seen as a bad thing and it was often suggested for Dixie because she was seen as having not much better going for her. Luckily the perception has changed but you can really make something different out of her options. I recognize that Echo status is possible but I know where I stand on the matter, because the chance of not being one or even flat out unique is still there and I won't ignore it. I'll be disappointed if she is an Echo, and she'll be the only DK member I don't play as, because Diddy's my main and I won't need a 1:1-ish fighter. Will I curse Sakurai? Nah, but I'll just enjoy 3/4 characters from the DK series.
 

Reila

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I won't lie, but perhaps in her reveal trailer the 3 Kongs will corner K. Rool in an epic showdown with Dixie being the driving force?
I think she will save both of them. They were buried at the end of the K. Rool's trailer, and she will appear to save the day (without Kiddy Kong this time unless he is a DK echo!).
 

Reila

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But what if instead of Kiddy,
Funky, Cranky or even Tiny or Chunky show up to back her up?
I only mentioned Kiddy because he helps her save DK and Diddy in DKC3. I would definitely prefer Funky or Cranky. Or Lanky to represent DK64..
 

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I think she will save both of them. They were buried at the end of the K. Rool's trailer, and she will appear to save the day (without Kiddy Kong this time unless he is a DK echo!).
Dixie saving Donkey and Diddy from King K. Rool in a trailer would certainly be an epic callback to DKC3. Since K. Rool has been revealed first, this could indeed be a real thing. Don't want to get too hyped, but damn that would be epic. xD
 
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Reila

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Dixie saving Donkey and Diddy from King K. Rool in a trailer would certainly be an epic callback to DKC3. Since K. Rool has been revealed first, this could indeed be a real thing. Don't want to get too hyped, but damn that would be epic. xD
You should be hyped! So I won't be disappointed alone if it doesn't happen.
 
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Johnknight1

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We could get Dixie at a later date pre-release, especially since we didn't see a new Donkey Kong stage and both the new stages added in Brawl and Smash Wii U aren't in Ultimate.

That means the newest stages from the Donkey Kong universe in Ultimate are from Melee.

That seems like a sign.

The folks working on this game are not holding ANYTHING back. Everything anyone has asked for they seem to add. Like... they added freaking Richton Belmont as an Echo Fighter! That's hype as hell!!!!!

The fact they are going balls to the walls crazy like this and want to make everyone happy and give people characters they have always wanted is a sign we should stay resilient. I'm sure our voices were heard!

Whether we get Dixie as an Echo Fighter, with a new DKC stage or as DLC, we gotta stay resilient, we gotta stay positive, we gotta stay excellent. We just got K. Rool and should be celebrating that! We should be celebrate all the characters we've received. And we should be prepared to celebrate Dixie Kong in the near future!!!!

I BELIEVE!!!! It's Smash "Ultimate" not Smash "Kind of Ultimate" after all!! :grin:
 
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Johnknight1

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Also how am I not in the official supporter list lol?

I'm an OG support for Dixie Kong lol. I've been saying since early 2007 on this site that once we get Diddy Kong, we gotta push for K. Rool AND Dixie!

Well we got Diddy in Brawl in late 2007 and we got K. Rool 2 years. Hopefully I don't gotta wait another damn 11 years lol.

By then I my hands might have fallen off from playing too many video games! :laugh:
 

cybersai

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Dixie has to make it. There's no way she can be overlooked. I'm sure when Sakurai finally decided to add K. Rool he probably thought, "Well I can't not add Dixie too" and then probably decided to make her a hybrid of DK/Diddy's moves.

Also Metroid now has 4 reps, DK is still stuck at 3. Would feel weird if Sakurai thought Dark Samus was more requested than Dixie, so I'm sure she's in too
 

Reila

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Dixie was probably not shown for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) She isn't done yet (especially possible if she's an echo)
2) They wanted to focus everything on K. Rool in his trailer due to the massive hype
The game is going to be released a few months from now. Believe me, all fighters are done by now. Your point 1 could be right if Dixie is like the echoest of all echo fighters and they left her for last or only decided on adding her very, very late on, but if I recall correctly the roster was decided by 2015, so that is unlikely (which is why I find bizarre that people still think Waluigi is playable even though he was shown as an Assist Trophy two months ago).

Your point 2 is more likely. I think the end of K. Rool's trailer was a cliffhanger to Dixie's even (and yes, I am repeating myself on this).
 
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I only mentioned Kiddy because he helps her save DK and Diddy in DKC3. I would definitely prefer Funky or Cranky. Or Lanky to represent DK64..
Man if we could get Cranky and Funky as an echo on top of getting Dixie and K. Rool with maybe the rest of the DK64 gang being assist trophies, that would be the best thing ever.

Also, not sure if this was ever posted, but there's a nice easter egg in Splatoon 2 with inklings recreating the cover of Returns.

Dje3ptfUUAAbW8E.jpeg
 
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