The toughest matchups - unfinished

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,215
Location
New Jersey
#1
I feel like it would be beneficial for everyone--even me--to jot down some clues on how to fight our worst matchups.

Snake

Imo 40-60 to 45-55

We have no solid ability to hit him, and his shield is retardedly good at blocking bananas without shield poking. I almost never shield poke snakes with a toss. His up close frame data and absurd weight make this matchup aggravating as hell. If we had the ability to make Snake approach, this matchup would be ez, but his grenades beat out peanuts (like every move in the game).

The key to winning is precision. Don't make mistakes. Snake is a character that like Ike, relies on quick reads. Never whiff anything, and you'll take 50% less damage than necessary. Fortunately for us, Snake is partly ***, and you can grab the ledge or air camp if you ever feel pressured. This is only unique vs. Snake. Here are some notes on the matchup:

-Our best stages against him are neutrals, like Battlefield and Smashville. The worst are counterpicks that make approaching difficult, such as Halberd and Castle Seige.
-You can stop his camping by SH or FH throwing bananas at him over the grenades. This works 100% of the time, and you'll get a reaction that isn't grenade guaranteed.
-Side b grabbing stops over-shielding Snakes.
-Destroy mines he sets down, because they almost never work in our favor.
-Grab him and throw him off-stage alot, as Snake only has about 3 basic landing options which are easy to punish with practice.
-Be sure to nail your combos, because if you don't, that's an instant 21% or more.

It's doable, but still hard. If he throws out moves with perfect timing Diddy Kong gets completely *****.

Wario

Imo 45-55 to 50-50

Wario's mobility and weight makes this matchup hard. Diddy Kong has decent frame data, not great, but decent. If you throw out anti-aerial moves, you can get punished because of his mobility. We're not like Metaknight, unfortunately. Fair can stop most of his aerial approaches with perfect spacing, and up smash covers falling airdodges. If Diddy has a good camping/anti-air game, Wario will get mad. Notes:

-Retreating fairs are very hard for him to punish.
-You can read his SH dair DI on shield and punish depending on the direction he goes after.
-Grab Release to dair over the edge still works for some reason, and is easy to set up with banana locks (you can also fair or fsmash for the kill and they'll have terribad DI).
-Fart combos from bananas. Don't be an idiot and it won't happen.
-Never approach. Like ever.

Not much to this matchup. If you really struggle, just counterpick DDD and bair/grab :troll:

Coming up: Falco + Metaknight
 

SaveMeJebus

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4,372
#3
Snake is really stupid. He can throw a banana at you, F-tilt to push you into the banana (for some reason it lands right behind you sometimes) and punish you with another F-tilt
 

Sails

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
561
Location
Southwick, MA
#9
You're acting like Diddy Kong is ever able to play on FD... :glare:
I get almost no experience on FD, and whenever I get a friendly going there, I manage to screw up something under the stage because I'm not used to it at all. Getting gimped under there, failing wall jumps, exploding barrels :awesome:
 

Vega4

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
553
#13
Just asking. Aren't Luigi and Peach labeled as "checks" to Diddy Kong as well?
"I don't know why the match up chart has that thing about Peach and Luigi beating Diddy.
Yes, I know that Peach can avoid naners with her air game, but Fairs, Peanuts, jumpin' monkey flip and jumpin' monkey flip kicks can destroy her air game... and when she is in the air, close to you, you just have too many options to avoid her dair>dair>... combos....
And Luigi... I know that Luigi's weird trip make hard to do naner combos, but you can rack up damage anyway, and Luigi shouldn't even touch you if you know the match up..."
 

Ingulit

Ing-u-lit
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
1,828
Location
Huntsville/Tuscaloosa, AL
#15
We beat Peach. Luigi is harder though.
Diddy definitely beats Luigi, though. All Diddy has to do is spam Popgun with a Banana in front of him and wait for Luigi to approach. If Luigi does, Diddy's F-Air outranges and (afaik) outprioritizes everything Luigi has. (this is all theorycraft ofc)

Peach is arguably harder, but it's not like either are that bad for Diddy.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,205
Location
Rainbow Cruise
#18
not really, being cornered at the ledge of the stage with diddy is bad anyway especially with luigi. His quick jab and aerials can keep you from getting away for at least a good bit of damage
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
#20
What does Peach have on Diddy? Peach is like Falco: we used to think it was hard for us, then we realized it really wasn't.

Luigi is different. He may have trouble approaching, but once he does he wrecks us with jabs and ****. If we are camping him at the edge of a stage we can't go anywhere, and if we camp him somewhere else it is much easier for him to approach us.
 

SaveMeJebus

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4,372
#21
Luigi doesn't beat Diddy. He has no moves that force an approach. The only way I could see Diddy lose to Luigi is if Luigi power shields to get his kills and this has to do with the player and not the character.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,215
Location
New Jersey
#23
Peach has no way to get around fair. Use it to block her in the air occasionally and just camp her. She has no way around it since her defensive frames are bad.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,205
Location
Rainbow Cruise
#26
Yeah they are what does that have to do with what I am saying?

:phone:

Edit: and my diddy is probably better than biglous luigi since he doesn't play him any more and idk about boss since i haven't played him or been to the sane tournaments as him
 

Vega4

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
553
#31
Luigi is different. He may have trouble approaching, but once he does he wrecks us with jabs and ****. If we are camping him at the edge of a stage we can't go anywhere, and if we camp him somewhere else it is much easier for him to approach us.
If you replace Luigi by: "MK, Snake, Mrth, Wario, Falco, IC's,................................., and almost every other character,...", and erase the word "jab", then you can realize that...: That happen in almost every single match-up...
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
#34
Snake's Fsmash should not hit us the same way Luigi's can. Up-b is much quicker than Fsmash for snake and if you are getting hit by a snake who's trying to approach you so he can throw out an Fsmash there's a problem.

IC's chaingrab is a legit kill when they get a grab on you but I'd still be more scared of a luigi up close than an IC. Only because it's easier to run away from IC's than a Luigi who just jabbed you and has a guaranteed Up-b.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
#37
Yeah, I need to face a better IC main. Maybe I'm just not scared because the one IC I face just fishes for a grab and its super predictable.

:phone:
 
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