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The Toon Link dilemma

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
The problem:

  1. Can't catch him
  2. Can't punish him
  3. Hard to kill him
  4. He kills us at 110
  5. Hard to hit him
  6. Can't outcamp him

It is one of the most frustrating matchups to play (besides against Kirby who is as cheap as pennies as well).

- We can't catch him horizontal as he is jumping away, or even if we hit him we can't string combos. Can't catch him vertically. He jumps much higher and has bombs to get us from under him.
- It's almost impossible to punish him if he is spacing his aerials properly and timing them right. Either a jab will stop us, or a zair or a BROKEN utilt or one of his retreating (no lag) aerials. About the only thing we can punish with out of shield is jab or else we get one of those three attacks in our face.
- It's hard to kill him because it's so hard to hit him. And about the only kill move that has enough range (nair and bair are strong enough you just CAN'T hit him with it) is fair which gets stale.
- Can't outcamp him. Oh my gosh.

So how do you fight him?
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
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CO
3DS FC
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BATTLEFIELD

It's just... so much... so much easier there. He can and will win just by scampering away, tossing crap, and zoning away your aerial approaches. All you can do is continually try to get in - which has a lot of reward once you've finally entered the bubble.

Toon Link was even my example when I drew this:

[COLLAPSE="pitur"]

[/COLLAPSE]
Once you've breached the jab zone, you're GOLD. At least until the trap dismantles - but basically, Toon Link has nothing there. He's one of the tether characters with an awful grab, so you can jab away mostly everything, and even chase with dash attack, and mixup with dair. Fun fun fun.

Right outside that is horror land though. That midspace, where he can just zair your away. If he has the space for it, he can do it indefinitely - but the trick of the matchup is to continuously pressure him to the edge, where you can close in, or at best throw him unto the ledge.

Learn to instant toss and steal bombs. They can be just as useful to you, than to him, even more so.

Clashing with boomerang, rather than just shielding, is pretty classy.

Arrow is slow - slow enough to punish if you're in range.

His kill moves are aerials near the ledge, and usmash all the time, which can be predictable, since it's kind of his only useful smash against us.
 

Meru.

I like spicy food
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
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Merudi
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Zone him better than he zones you. Jump whenever you can but don't jump whenever you cannot. If you think you're at an uncomfortable place, just get away quickly. Don't try to chase him too much... Peach is too slow. Look for whiff and landing punishes instead, so you can you lock him down effectively.

He shouldn't be killing you at 110 either lol.

:053:
 

CraigWashPro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
13
Probs of the Past!

I have 2 friends that plays TL all the time and b4 had the same probs u did, but the way i play against TL to learn how to power shield and and work him to the edges of the stage where he got very few answers. if u get TL pinned down(he got bad OFS answers) jab and pressure is the main key and never EVER! Chase him even after follow ups cuz he have a way better air game than peach :mad:
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I think I'm learning not to chase him, can't even really COMBO him because of his aerials. I like the drawing you made Meno, and I need to practicing instant grabbing and tossing. Is there a solid way to practice that?

And Yaay there's is something to what you're saying. I played my friend a couple more times and was determined to NOT chase him, and jump/dodge the rabble he was throwing at me. After patience I was able to eck out some wins!

This is definitely a lose matchup if played without perfection :(

Illmatic you've got any videos?
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
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Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
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RicardoAvocado
Super amazing pro tip: If TL hits you with the first hit of his F Smash, start a Float and the second hit will miss


I love that drawing Meno

To add to what everyone has already said, try going in with a Turnip in hand to help zone him (gives you a follow up if his Zair hits your shield)

I find the best way to approach this MU is to stay on the ground and keep dodging/shielding stuff he throws at you until you reach the Jab zone Meno was talking about. NEVER go in the air until you're in Fair/SH Dair range - certainly never approach from the air because even if you manage to avoid one projectile you'll just get hit by the next

I think I'm learning not to chase him, can't even really COMBO him because of his aerials. I like the drawing you made Meno, and I need to practicing instant grabbing and tossing. Is there a solid way to practice that?

This is definitely a lose matchup if played without perfection :(
You could try fighting CPU Diddy - he's pretty peanut gun happy and he never charges them so they're a slow moving, gives you plenty of time
Orrrrr you could go into Training Mode, constantly Up Throw Bob-ombs/Smart Bombs and then practice instant tossing them as they fall back down
Best method is just to keep fighting TL's imo

And yea it definitely is lol. Stupid TL...
 

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
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Oshawa 905
Footstool out of shield guys >.<

At 0 percent, fair to instajab.

The second hit of your dash attack out spaces TL's entire moveset.

Ledge float -> Dsmash pokes shield then chase grab.

When I was at COT4 I just barely lost the set to Hylians TL using these strats.

Though that was like the last ice age.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Footstool out of shield guys >.<

At 0 percent, fair to instajab.

The second hit of your dash attack out spaces TL's entire moveset.

Ledge float -> Dsmash pokes shield then chase grab.

When I was at COT4 I just barely lost the set to Hylians TL using these strats.

Though that was like the last ice age.

I'm not 100% sure how you'll land fair -> on a grounded toon link. They'll either me in the air and throwing tons of stuff at you. And the same with dash attack you've got to get through his pummel of items in order to actually dash attack him.

Ledge float -> dsmash if he's actually NEAR the ledge when you're there (which he shouldn't be). If you do poke with dsmash and try to follow up with grab you'll eat a bair or nair or fair almost everytime. That's what's so tough you can't really follow up with much.
 

RunC.T.

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RunC.T.
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Toon link's airspace is too good, so wait for him to land and predict his landing options, then punish accordingly.

if he zairs, don't try to punish unless he mispaces.
if it's nair, or fair, then you can try to punish with a grab, or powershield to short-hop nair.

also be sure to read his jumps.
by doing so, you'll be able to get above him, and get some hits in with dair.

the easiest way to get around his camping, is to get in his face and keep him on the ground as long as possible.

basically. read his jumps, keep him grounded. and stay in his face. if you try to keep your distance, then Toon link already wins the fight yo.
 
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