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The timer?

ADHD

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I think it only exists today because of one character--Metaknight.

It's not enough that every other matchup besides the ditto already loses to him on the ground, but now we also face the risk of being air-camped/scrooged/planking substitute tactics when he feels like it as well.

At least elongating the timer a minute or two (I would think three is greatest) would discourage timing-out tactics. There is a fine line between a viable strategy, and an abusive strategy. The timer would not lose its main objective, while not altering tournament sets in a negative fashion.
 

~ Gheb ~

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The problem is that dumb people will come in and conclude that increasing the timer by two minutes means that all sets will take two more minutes and that tournaments will generally go longer because of that. Even though that's not the case.

Unfortunately this misinformed opinion will also prevail due to unity ruleset and BBR nonsense.

:059:
 

ADHD

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The problem is that dumb people will come in and conclude that increasing the timer by two minutes means that all sets will take two more minutes and that tournaments will generally go longer because of that. Even though that's not the case.

Unfortunately this misinformed opinion will also prevail due to unity ruleset and BBR nonsense.

:059:
Lol, the point is to encourage people to actually PLAY eachother. Matches won't take longer because the majority of players don't time eachother out, and those who do are a very small minority (metaknight scroogers).
 

~ Gheb ~

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Yeah, I know that. I totally agree that the timer should be at least 3 minutes for each stock.

:059:
 
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I think it only exists today because of one character--Metaknight.

It's not enough that every other matchup besides the ditto already loses to him on the ground, but now we also face the risk of being air-camped/scrooged/planking substitute tactics when he feels like it as well.

At least elongating the timer a minute or two (I would think three is greatest) would discourage timing-out tactics. There is a fine line between a viable strategy, and an abusive strategy. The timer would not lose its main objective, while not altering tournament sets in a negative fashion.
Someone be mad.

Also, take any matchup where the approaching player is at a major disadvantage... Remove the timer and suddenly the match could go on for quite a long time. >.> It also means that players like Overswarm and Orion will be able to take their sweet time, knowing that if the timer won't force the opponent to them, boredom will. :glare:
 

Blacknight99923

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Orion wouldn't be able to time out top players with an additional 2 minutes.

It doesn't matter if he could time out randoms, he could beat them without it anyway.

the majority of matches that go to time its almost always last stock mid percent.
 

ADHD

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Someone be mad.

Also, take any matchup where the approaching player is at a major disadvantage... Remove the timer and suddenly the match could go on for quite a long time. >.> It also means that players like Overswarm and Orion will be able to take their sweet time, knowing that if the timer won't force the opponent to them, boredom will. :glare:
Your view on this subject is overly exaggerated. Players will not be encouraged to camp even longer to achieve time-outs, because they'll be pressured more to fight. And hey, even if they don't, then the likelihood of the matches going to time is lessened.

Tournaments will not run longer either.. I've never seen a bracket of players in which all of them used timing out people as a tactic, rofl. It's generally 1-2 people depending on the tournament size.

*We've based the timer off of melee (a much faster-paced game), even though Brawl is a completely different game. How many matches have you seen go to time in melee? How many in brawl? I rest my case.
 

Supreme Dirt

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No timer.

Facing a Pit.

Oh **** no.

Also I've seen exactly one game go to time in Melee. It was that game where Chibo tried to time out a Falco and almost succeeded.
 
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Eh, tbh, I don't really have an argument and am just being contrary for the **** of it. It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me; I suck at timing people out anyways. :laugh:

...That is, longer timer. No timer is obviously a ******** idea. 10 minutes? That we can do.
 

Tesh

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I think it only exists today because of one character--Metaknight.

It's not enough that every other matchup besides the ditto already loses to him on the ground, but now we also face the risk of being air-camped/scrooged/planking substitute tactics when he feels like it as well.

At least elongating the timer a minute or two (I would think three is greatest) would discourage timing-out tactics. There is a fine line between a viable strategy, and an abusive strategy. The timer would not lose its main objective, while not altering tournament sets in a negative fashion.
*shrug* Increasing the timer doesn't really fix anything. There are basically 2 groups of stalling. There is the first kind, where you just camp hard and some "could" get to you and fight but the risk/reward is heavily skewed. More time would help here to some extent, but so would lowering the LGL.

Then you have stalling that doesn't use up LGLs and thus can be done for as long as you need it. Therefore adding time won't affect it.
 

Orion*

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Orion wouldn't be able to time out top players with an additional 2 minutes.
Timing out top players in general on like non *** stages (i.e. RC, Brins, LM, Norfair, ect) is hard enough in general. You literally have to be technically perfect/on point or players like Wyatt will just wait with you and punish Every small inch you give them.

10 minute timer would probably make it so that if the game went to time either,

A. One player was like blatantly stalling/planking
B. The other player was like LOL camping back despite being a stock down and there's 2 minutes left

However if it is increased I think that the LGL should be increased as well to like 40-45 range
 

Tesh

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increasing the lgl would....kind of defeat the purpose dont you think?
 

Orion*

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Not really. 8 minutes with a 35 LGL, MK can't stay on the ledge blatantly at all or he Will go over it. He can scrooge, but that's banned. He can ledgeless plank but that's punishable. He can Dair camp but that kinda sucks imo...

If MK is forced off the ledge, even if he is camping like a COMPLETE homo you can still fight him.

edit: The thing is, this game can be very slow paced so 8 minutes well... encourages me to go for time even if I don't go for it against other players. At 10 minutes, if I see there's another 4 minutes left, vs another 2 in a slow paced match I would probably not go for the clock as often.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Not really. 8 minutes with a 35 LGL, MK can't stay on the ledge blatantly at all or he Will go over it. He can scrooge, but that's banned. He can ledgeless plank but that's punishable. He can Dair camp but that kinda sucks imo...

If MK is forced off the ledge, even if he is camping like a COMPLETE homo you can still fight him.

edit: The thing is, this game can be very slow paced so 8 minutes well... encourages me to go for time even if I don't go for it against other players. At 10 minutes, if I see there's another 4 minutes left, vs another 2 in a slow paced match I would probably not go for the clock as often.
Does that have a capital to refer to RichBrown vs Will?
 

-Jumpman-

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ADHD, are you dumb? Melee had a timer, and that one wasn't JUST FOR MK. Think before you post next time.
 

Tesh

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ADHD, I have discovered something you are REALLY gonna hate this time.


Metaknight can move on the red spaces in checkers. Its hard to pull off, but with practice its pretty broken.
 

ADHD

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ADHD, are you dumb? Melee had a timer, and that one wasn't JUST FOR MK. Think before you post next time.
And I'm saying we need to extend it because Brawl is a slower-paced game. One character is enough to destroy our metagame, so I don't see why it's not a bad idea if we refuse to ban him from tournaments.

Don't be a jerk.
 

san.

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I had a pretty nice argument on increasing the timer but no one cared/listened.

I agree with a 10 minute timer, even 9 would help.

It makes MUs like Sonic vs Jigglypuff playable.
 

Player-1

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I agree also, this will definitely reduce the number of timeouts. Even if it does make tournaments go on longer, it's not going to be by much. I'd like to see this taken in steps though, a 9 minute timer before a 10 minute.
 

Tagxy

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Theres documentation of 18 minute matches in melee before they added the timer. Honestly if youre behind why would you ever approach when you could camp at the ledge and make magical comebacks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc

I forgot who said this, but someone brought up a point once that even minor increases in the timelimit can drastically reduce timeouts. Reducing the timer even a minute or two would see significantly more timeouts. While not as drastic a change, a 10 minute timer would certainly have a good impact.
 

ADHD

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Relevant point: what is the problem with a time-out win?
Timing out people is a legit strategy-yes, but the timer should be longer because melee is faster and brawl is slower. Due to the current timer in brawl, tactics like scrooging and air camping are actually abusive. I don't see why that point is relevant because the timer would still exist.
 

san.

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Relevant point: what is the problem with a time-out win?
Flawed timeout win conditions. And they're the best we can do, so it's best to have a reasonable timeout limit that times out when necessary.

We're in a zone where regular campy matches have a good chance to time out. I feel timing out should be in more abnormal cases where there are conditions of standstill gameplay. Usually created from degenerate strategies or annoying players.
 

RichBrown

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I think we should just try it to see how it works

The problem with all the debate and theory craft like this is that people simply think on paper, but in application things can be different

Heck if we just did everything on paper there'd be no point in playing out matches

Anyways I'm down to give this a try so we can get concrete data, and if we are wrong then I'm happy to go back to 8 minute timers

Too many of you are concerned with being right; I'm concerned with getting it right.
 
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I'm camping my little boots off regardless of if I can pull of a time out or not.
 

deepseadiva

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A half hour game set.

...this game is pretty awful. lol
 

Sinister Slush

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I've timed out ALSM's Toon Link on FD... In friendlies. I'd be completely fine with atleast an extra minute, since even a character like Yoshi can time out some characters. Just half the time most of us would rather get the match over with rather than camp the entire match.
 
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