• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The thread you should read before asking for a critique

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
[COLLAPSE="Read me first"]Alright, first of all, please don't just post saying "Good post" or whatever. Contribute. MU specific, super specific scenario that almost never happens, anything. Contribute any and everything you can.

Secondly, don't post saying "Oh I do X all the time." Congrats. You contributed nothing and made yourself look like an ***.[/COLLAPSE]

Watching people play, there are a few things that REALLY jump out that are problems everybody seems to have that are largely easily fixed.

First of all, my biggest annoyance and the most likely reason you're losing/getting hit in the air/I won't critique your videos:
YOU DON'T ZONE WITH FAST FALLING ENOUGH. During the era of Emblem Lord, FFing was the #1 most basic thing when playing Marth. All of a sudden everyone is leaving themselves open with slow fall fair and badly timed rising fair (while approaching none-the-less, ugh). That's not to say they don't have their uses- but I never see FFfair anymore.

Now then, moving on.

General things:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Read the two semi walls of text here http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13796589&postcount=13999

- Don't swing your sword for no reason. There should always be a purpose. Positioning, pressure, option limitation, likely hits, etc. Throwing out an attack and hoping it hits is the easiest way to lose a good situation.[/COLLAPSE]
Stuff about DB:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Stop being lazy and letting people escape. DB1, DB2U, DB3D, DB4U/S. It's not that hard... at all.

- If you're facing a grab-happy opponent who isn't Dedede, don't be afraid to SH DB1 -> Fair their shield, too many people immediately trigger finger a shield grab. (Side note: I remember Shaya telling me that aerial DB1 is good vs D3. I'd say it's not COMPLETELY out of the question to mess around with.)

- If you're on the ground and you think you MIGHT trade hits with DB, don't use DB. It's transcended and you'll come out behind on the trade, a LOT.[/COLLAPSE]

If your spacing is off:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- If your spacing is off for a falling fair... don't do one:
FF uair has huge shieldpush.
FF into grab (people tend to wait for a hitconfirm).
My favorite, fall and land with DB. They try to shield grab (expecting a fair) and they get hit with the rest of the combo

- If you're in close, don't be afraid to cross-up with Nair if you have to, it'll save you from getting shield-grabbed.

- Cross-up FF uair is also an option.

[COLLAPSE="DISCLAIMER"]Cross-ups are risky and amazingly unsafe is expected. They should only be used in specific situations, as a mix-up, and only against certain characters.[/COLLAPSE]
[/COLLAPSE]
On choosing your options:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Quit using fsmash from the opposite side of the stage when dsmash will tipper and put them above you in the air. Why stale fsmash and potentially let them reset to neutral (and do less damage? Idk how much tipper dsmash does) when you can dsmash and set up juggles and landing traps.

- Dsmash is FAST. You know MK's annoying dsmash that you can't react to? Our's is only 1 frame slower (although a lot more unsafe on shield). It's okay to use it more than you do.

- Non-tipper D-Smash is an absurdly good trap against people who like to airdodge into the ground, and it's trajectory will destroy them if they're trying to fastfall.

- If you have a tall platform above you like the middle in BF, or the left statue on Castle Siege, don't be afraid to ***** Dolphin Slash. It's extremely safe when you can land immediately.

- Usmash to punish/usmash OoS. It's a bit longer than your other moves on start-up, but at 12 frames it's still fairly quick. It's fast enough to hit MK's nado OoS when they land on you (a HUGE application for it that isn't done enough). It's also your most damaging move over all. It does 18-22 fresh (depending on hitboxes) and doesn't stale your kill moves.

- Stop going for the grab and nothing else against people you have grab combos on at low %. Most of the time, your fair (13%) will lead into DB (14-18%) on those characters you're fishing for the grab on. You're just letting yourself take unnecessary damage.

- Know when to nair and when to fair. I'm tired of people using them in the exact wrong situation.

- You know, just watch NEO. His option selection is gdlk.[/COLLAPSE]

Anti-air (AA):
[COLLAPSE=" "]- If you're in the air with your opponent and they have a strong air game, nair is a great AA if retreated. Fair is a great AA if you're slightly above your opponent.

- Jab will stuff a lot of aerial approaches. It will trade with Diddy's fair (I've had jab beat it a couple times actually..) and trade w/ Marth's fair. Anything shorter than those you'll probably beat you.

- Ftilt will stuff even more, although it's a larger commitment. Ftilt beats Marth's fair and Diddy's fair and will trade with Marth's nair (1st hit. If the first hit isn't close to you and they're moving forward ftilt will hit them before the 2nd hit comes out since they're floating right into a hitbox).[/COLLAPSE]

On platform pressure:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- SHFFuair takes about 55 frames from start to end according to NEO. It's really not THAT good of a platform pressure tool.

- Nair is probably your best platform pressure tool.

- The back side of nair is safer, and if it shieldpokes, hits harder.

- Utilt will shieldpoke frequently and is fairly quick.

- Ftilt will hit from a VERY surprising distance away. It also has good knockback and might push them off the platform for follow-ups.

- When someone falls off a platform while shielding you HAVE to react and punish them.

- Usmash is NOT what you want to use.[/COLLAPSE]

On ledge trapping:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- I don't care who you are, your ledge trapping game needs work. If the character on the ledge isn't Falco or *maybe* MK, you should be dealing 30-50 damage from them being on the ledge- if not a stock.

- Quit overcommiting to actions while their opponent is on the ledge (I see charged smashes a lot and SH slowfall nair as pressure for example) which lets them get back on for free.

- SHFFfair is SAFE pressure to do and covers them jumping up and most other ledge options other than get up attack (will probably trade).

- WALK. Never ever ever dash here. Dashing is a HUGE commitment. Walking is zero commitment. There's not even an argument here.

- Dtilt and jab are AMAZING. If you use them and your opponent rolls instead, they end quickly enough for you to punish the roll.

- Go to training mode and learn the length of both ledge attacks (over and under 100%) of every character. Stand the smallest bit outside of that range and punish it non-stop. You should never be hit by a ledge attack.[/COLLAPSE]

Landing traps:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Pivot grabbing landings is safer than and more reliable than normal grabbing them. It's out longer and is gives you space if you whiff. This also allows you more likelihood of grab armoring through an attack.

- Watch for air dodges. It's a really common occurrence.

- Dtilt landings is reliable, lowers your hurtbox, is safe, and leads into other moves.[/COLLAPSE]

Grab game:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Watch, wait, and react. You have a fairly large advantage after you throw a character. Don't run in trying to follow up and get hit yourself.

- Look for habits. Positional wise, fthrow and dthrow put characters into terrible positions. Look for their habits since they HAVE to act to try to avoid follow-ups.

- If you think they're going to AD into the ground, dtilt is ****.[/COLLAPSE]

On footstools:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- These are SEVERELY underused.

- You're above MK and he nado'd/you popped out. Don't just AD into it; that's just letting yourself get hit for no reason. That solves nothing. Counter MIGHT work, maybe. Just footstool the nado and go somewhere else.

- If your opponent tries to come after you offstage and you have no more jumps, mash jump/hold up while you do normal offstage things you do. If they fall into the range for you to footstool them, all of a sudden they're in a terrible spot.

- Footstool to avoid landing traps.[/COLLAPSE]

Spotdodges:
[COLLAPSE=" "]-Get used to all the timings for all the spotdodges if spammed.

- If you don't feel comfortable with punishing it because you're not used to the timings yet- especially vs Tink/Link/Falco/Yoshi/Pika- walk away and dtilt. This puts characters in a terrible situation. They can't just try to shield it (assuming it's spaced well) unless they're MK/Marth, if they keep spamming spotdodge they put themselves of being hit by dtilt which leads to follow-ups, and if they roll you get a free DB on reaction.[/COLLAPSE]

While you're on the ledge:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- BE PATIENT. Being on the ledge isn't the worst thing in the world. It's okay to hold onto the ledge and grab it more than one time in a row. Be patient while on the ledge, no reason to jump into hitboxes non-stop.

- Ledgedrop DB away from the stage backair works just as well for poking through the stage as ledgedrop fair does and has more range. Mix it up if the latter isn't working.

- Unfortunately the above affords a lot of time to let them speedhug since bair is kind of laggy. If you think they're going to do that, after DBing away, just jump back to the ledge. They'll run and FF past you while you get to laugh and begin ledge trapping them instead.

- DS instant regrab trick. I see people drop sooo many gimps on Olimar/Diddy/Falco/Marth/etc because they're afraid of getting hit off the ledge. Instead of waiting for your invincibility to run out, just renew it while they fly past you/into the stage helplessly and die.

- Don't be one track minded with ledgedrop-> jump-> nair onstage. You're asking to get *****.[/COLLAPSE]

Dolphin Slash:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Preemptive DS while offstage is a good thing at time. You hit people coming offstage after you and you can get to the ledge safely.

- Be aware of platforms that will give you more safety.

- Get rid of your RCO lag as soon as you can. However make sure you do it safely.

- You know what? Just go watch NEO. His DS timing is incredible.[/COLLAPSE]

Shieldbreaker:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- SB's range is HUGE. HUUUGGGEEEE. Do they like coming at you? SB.

- Characters that have a very long range grounded move they like to zone with are asking to get hit with this move.

- Unless you're trying to hit a habit/you've conditioned them to shield in a specific situation, charging SB for a little bit is a good idea. If they're shielding and they see it, they'll probably panic spotdodge. Now they're dead or have a broken shield.[/COLLAPSE]

Bair:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Bair will never get outspaced by any move in the game. The combination of it's vertical and horizontal ranges make is near unbeatable.

- USE MORE BAIR. Double Jump Bair covers a deceptively huge distance in a short amount of time, it's one of our best edge-guarding tool.[/COLLAPSE]

Counter:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Don't be afraid to use counter against moves with slow start-up. One that immediately comes to mind is Dedede's fair. If you can, you should.

- Countering smashes at the beginning of them is dangerous. If you want to counter a smash, wait for them to charge it a little bit first.

- Wavebounce/B-reverse counter onto the stage from the ledge is a REALLY solid mix-up.[/COLLAPSE]

Defensive options:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Instead of rolling away or spotdodging all the time, drop your shield and just walk/dash away.

- That's not to say that our back roll isn't good- it is. Don't shirk away from it. Just be don't spam it.

- If you are on the ground (ESPECIALLY from Snake's dthrow and Diddy's bananas) be aware of ALL of your options; normal get-up (especially into upB or grab), get-up attack, roll right, roll left, and just laying there for a little (less so vs Diddy of course) are all valid options.[/COLLAPSE]

Items:
[COLLAPSE=" "]-You HAVE to have a refined item game.

- Be able to use all the item tricks very consistently.

- When you have an item (especially vs Diddy) don't just throw it away or waste it. Think about your options.[/COLLAPSE]

While you're recovering:
[COLLAPSE=" "]- Make sure you recover low most of the time.

- Save your jump for the love of Marth. If you use your jump for no reason, you lose the ability to stall out invincibility frames[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="When hit"]
- Don't just aerial to MC if it means giving your opponent a follow-up option. This holds especially true for throws that will never kill.[/COLLAPSE]

Character specific things:
[COLLAPSE="MK"]-You're in the air and MK is gliding at you, what should you do? Fall and uair? Ehh, alright, but what he follows you down. It's still going to clash. Fair? Glair will clash. AD. He can cancel it and chase you.
Just nair. He's coming at you- if he glairs the first hit of nair clashes with it and he gets hit by the second hit. If he just keeps gliding or cancels the glide, he just gets hit.

- If you get a stun jacket vs MK and grab him, but not close enough to the ledge to spike him (assuming kill %s), GR, DB1 to use the stun jacket, guaranteed regrab-> GR spike[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Falco"]- Don't be too hasty letting go of shield. Falco's moves are quick, don't frame trap yourself for him.

- Falco has copious tools to **** dash approaches. Be careful and methodical.

- Falco wants to camp you and is looking for an opportunity to escape pressure via side-B. don't give him the opportunity to do so.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Pikachu"]
- Against Pikachu, learn up to what percent utilt and usmash can hit and not kill you. This way, if you miss your DI, you don't get stuck needlessly momentum cancelling with fair and eating a thunder, unable to air dodge. Some times you can get away with it on usmash if you have a little DI, but it's still not worth it if you weren't going to die anyway. On top of that, when you do remember not to fair, watch the Pikachu and don't air dodge before he even calls the thunder.[/COLLAPSE]
 

ScareMl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Northern California
correct me if im mistaken. ok throwing my two cents in, marth has a lot of grab combos from 0% and grab releases, but i see way too many marths going only for the grab (like the grab->grab->dair on falco and grab release on metaknight) and they lose sight of what they're supposed to do in the MU. You'll rack up like 60-70%--or even die--before you realize oh ****, i better hit the other guy. so stop going for the grab and nothing else, if you've accumulated like 30% and still haven't gotten that one grab, just forget it, let it go, play the MU like normal. good players who play their characters well are good at not getting grabbed when they don't want to be, and you'll just end up leaving yourself open and getting ***** by your opponent. This is from watching vids and my own experience trying to grab fox mains...

and cj, i like number 5, i never thought about using d-smash except for kills lol
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
If you're facing a grab-happy opponent who isn't Dedede, don't be afraid to SH DB1 -> Fair their shield, too many people immediately trigger finger a shield grab.

Use Aerial DB more often, nobody ever expects it.

Non-tipper D-Smash is an absurdly good trap against people who like to airdodge into the ground, and it's trajectory will destroy them if they're trying to fastfall.

D-Smash is FAST. Use it. JC D-Smash OoS comes out on frame 7 I think. Edit: Apparently this isn't a thing? Still absurdly fast, use it.

If you're in close, don't be afraid to cross-up with Nair if you have to, it'll save you from getting shield-grabbed.

When opponents are on platforms above you and you want to use nair for pressure, use the BACKWARDS hitbox on it. It's just as good and much MUCH safer.

On that note, using nair to knock someone off a platform often sets them up for other things. Take advantage of it.

USE MORE BAIR. Double Jump Bair covers a deceptively huge distance in a short amount of time, it's by far our best edge-guarding tool.

If you have a tall platform above you like the middle in BF, or the left statue on Castle Siege, don't be afraid to ***** Dolphin Slash. It's extremely safe when you can land immediately.

Ledgedrop DB -> Backair works just as well for poking through the stage as Ledgedrop fair does. Mix it up if the latter isn't working.

Always always ALWAYS make sure you deal with your RCO lag as soon as possible, and learn to recognize when you are carrying it. If you have to land in a bad position, land with FFUair, it's deceptively safe and by far your best option.

Shield-breaker has absurd range on the ground. If you're fighting an opponent who likes to pre-emptively counterattack you, run up and SB.

On that note, remember to always charge SB just a LITTLE bit. (unless their shield is already weak) Nothing is more depressing than hitting a shield with it and having it survive by the tiniest amount because you didn't charge. It's already unsafe if they shield or dodge, go for broke.

Don't be afraid to use counter against moves with slow start-up. One that immediately comes to mind is Dedede's fair. If you can, you should.

Don't counter against smashes unless you can do so on reaction to the release of the smash. If they hold the charge you're getting destroyed for it.

Don't be afraid to use Up-B offstage if the opponent is obviously committing to an attack that you can't otherwise avoid. As long as they're above 40ish they can't punish you for it on hit.

If you're in a grounded situation where you think you might trade, DON'T DB. It's transcendent and you'll never win the trade. Retreating fair if possible, counter if obvious. Too many times have I traded DB with Wario's F-Smash.

USE OUR ROLL. Marth's Backwards roll creates a lot of space and is exceptional for resetting the situation if you have room to do so. Don't ever forward roll though, too much lag at the ending position.

That's all I've got for now. <3 C.J.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Oh right, jab tips.

If an opponent is trying to land into you, especially near the ledge, just jab them back onto it.

Jab1 has a larger range than you think, it will easily AA a lot of things. Same with f-tilt, the range is huge.

F-tilt hits most platforms, use it if you're too far away to utilt or nair.

Don't use U-Smash for platform pressure, there's too much lag to follow up and if they PS you're ***** for it.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Reformatted, updated, renamed, and before you post a video to be critiqued make CERTAIN that you read this thread, watch you're own video and see if this thread says why you lost. Something like 7 out of 10 videos I watch of Marths have problems that are mentioned in here that detail why you lost.

Sections on landing traps and grab game coming tonight.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Diddy specific tip

Don't throw bananas right away when you get them. Play around with 'em, walk around with 'em, do whatever, just THINK a little unless you are fairly sure that what you are doing with the banana is a good idea or, at the very least, won't hurt you. Bananas are an asset to Marth if you use them the right way.

Falco specific tips

Powershield lasers but be prepared to HOLD block also. Keep your finger on the trigger.
When Falco is spotdodging numerous times, unless you have a good idea of his spotdodge timing so you can DB just walk two character lengths away and dtilt. This is a really bad spot for Falco, so stay patient.
If Falco is above you on a platform position yourself diagonally below and just wait. If this is on BF and he phantasms to the other side, just walk over to the other side and do the same thing. Be ready to block even while you are walking.
Bumrushing Falco is just about the worst idea ever considering his tools to counter dashing (lasers, reflector, side b, fsmash). Methodical approaches!
When you are pressuring Falco and you don't know what to do, keep in mind he wants you to block where you can't counter his side B OR he wants you to jump so he can run away.

General tips
Watch NEO.
Don't swing aimlessly. Your goal with each swing should be either A) a specific position for you/the opponent or B) putting damage on the opponent or C) both. Seems self-evident, save a lot of people just swing for no reason whatsoever.
 

Jeos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
224
you missed some options like FF Fair into DS, especially against the icies, but works well for
everyone.

Also I wouldn't recommend Dsmash too much, if the opponent gets a read, it'll be a hard punish. It's ok to use it more often than never but don't promote its use that much.

Try to use Fsmash for aerial aproaches and retreatings, it lands a nice tipper incredible often.

When getting back to the stage, recover as low as possible, because marth has the stalling abilities to don't get edgdhogged, though of course you have to mix things up.

great compendium, hope it helps everyone
 

Lord Chair

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
3,229
Location
Cheeseland, Europe
The tip about using aerial DB 'because no one expects it' is simply dumb.

Just because stuff is unorthodox and/or unexpected doesn't mean it's worthwhile. FH bair approaches are unexpected too, doesn't make them efficient *looks at Nike.* (<3).

.
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
yea nike

if diddy tries to side-b towards the stage you can drop off the ledge, reverse db1 and hit him with it, then DJ fair (or if you're awesome, dair)

he cant do anything about it if you space it right
 

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
Oh, I was talking about this lol:

The tip about using aerial DB 'because no one expects it' is simply dumb.

Just because stuff is unorthodox and/or unexpected doesn't mean it's worthwhile. FH bair approaches are unexpected too, doesn't make them efficient *looks at Nike.* (<3).

.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Man, this thread has some really good info.

One thing I've noticed, if the opponent's hanging on the ledge after their invincibility has run out, short hop D-air should spike and kill them. Not something you're likely to see often, but downright hilarious when it happens.

Also, one character-specific ledge note... Pikachu has less (don't recall the exact amount) invincibility frames when on the ledge, but he also has less lag (that is to say time after grabbing the ledge before he can do something). Something to be aware of, as it might throw off your timing.
 

MasterOfGalaxies

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
93
Location
Somewhere boring.
I think it might be a good idea to mention using DS OoS as a punish works really well, and it's super safe. Additionally, you could mention the grab release stuff on Wario, Ness, and Lucas under the matchup specific. But I don't know how detailed you want this, and I know all of those are explained elsewhere.

Also, I've personally found in the Falco matchup that getting close enough to the Falco that he can't safely do his laser tricksies and just holding sheild works really well, as it baits the dash attack/DACUS, or using side-b away through you. You can easily punish the DACUS/dash attack with DS OoS, and the situation doesn't really get a whole lot worse for you if he phantasms out of your punish reach. If he stops falling for the bait, you can eventually drop your shield, duck (which puts you under the second lazer of a SHDL unless it's a silent laser) and dtilt his landing. Of course, this probably won't work on all Falcos, but it is pretty useful.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Semi-updated. I still need to do something landing traps and grabs tonight. I'll also add on a thing about spotdodges.
[COLLAPSE="Replies are here"]
you missed some options like FF Fair into DS, especially against the icies, but works well for
everyone.

Also I wouldn't recommend Dsmash too much, if the opponent gets a read, it'll be a hard punish. It's ok to use it more often than never but don't promote its use that much.

Try to use Fsmash for aerial aproaches and retreatings, it lands a nice tipper incredible often.

When getting back to the stage, recover as low as possible, because marth has the stalling abilities to don't get edgdhogged, though of course you have to mix things up.

great compendium, hope it helps everyone
Dsmash isn't a "oh go ahead and use it" move. I specifically stated it's a move you should mostly use only as a guaranteed punish in place of other punishes in order to get better damage/positioning/freshen other moves.

Ftilt and jab are far better anti-airs.

Started a section on recovering for the last one.

The tip about using aerial DB 'because no one expects it' is simply dumb.

Just because stuff is unorthodox and/or unexpected doesn't mean it's worthwhile. FH bair approaches are unexpected too, doesn't make them efficient *looks at Nike.* (<3).
Touche

Man, this thread has some really good info.

One thing I've noticed, if the opponent's hanging on the ledge after their invincibility has run out, short hop D-air should spike and kill them. Not something you're likely to see often, but downright hilarious when it happens.

Also, one character-specific ledge note... Pikachu has less (don't recall the exact amount) invincibility frames when on the ledge, but he also has less lag (that is to say time after grabbing the ledge before he can do something). Something to be aware of, as it might throw off your timing.
The first one isn't exactly something that should go into a general "If you're losing you're probably doing one of these" thread. I'll add the pika one when I get home

I think it might be a good idea to mention using DS OoS as a punish works really well, and it's super safe. Additionally, you could mention the grab release stuff on Wario, Ness, and Lucas under the matchup specific. But I don't know how detailed you want this, and I know all of those are explained elsewhere.

Also, I've personally found in the Falco matchup that getting close enough to the Falco that he can't safely do his laser tricksies and just holding sheild works really well, as it baits the dash attack/DACUS, or using side-b away through you. You can easily punish the DACUS/dash attack with DS OoS, and the situation doesn't really get a whole lot worse for you if he phantasms out of your punish reach. If he stops falling for the bait, you can eventually drop your shield, duck (which puts you under the second lazer of a SHDL unless it's a silent laser) and dtilt his landing. Of course, this probably won't work on all Falcos, but it is pretty useful.
None of that is really a reason that someone is often losing matches though. I'll add in the DS OoS one for against multi-hit attacks though. GR things don't really belong in here, imo. As for the falco thing, that's pretty wrong. Falco wants to camp you and will LOVE the opportunity to side-B away for free. No good Falco will ever just run into your shield with a dash attack/DACUS tbh.
[/COLLAPSE]
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
I don't blame you. Just here to give advice =)

No worries

EDIT: Added spotdodges, grab games, and landing traps. 12/10/11
 

ScareMl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Northern California
idk if these are already in there but a couple more points:

don't retreat nair---> f-smash mindlessly every single time. i do this a lot and i end up getting punished for it. mix up options i guess

if youre hit off the stage by a strong attack and are forced to use your second jump fair to DI, it helps to start doing db1 once or twice right when you're going to recover so that your opponent's invincibility frames on the ledge run out and you can recover. despite this being in the most drastic situations, it's saved me on more than one occasion.
 

Sylarius

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
585
Location
Saskatoon, SK
If you watch Leon (Marth) vs Glutonny (Falco) MM, count how many times Leon SHs off ledge and does a Nair or AD and gets punished for it.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Bump because so many videos are being posted when their answers are in here.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
#1 tip for bad Marths

Stop jumping for no reason at all. Relates to pointless aerials but committing to a jump with Marth is one of the most common things I see Marths doing that just get them blown up. The quickest and best way to improve your fundamentals as Marth is to develop a good ground game.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
I re-read this thread and felt everything seemed like stuff I do.

Then I remembered I contributed a bunch of these tips.

 

Zano

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
4,327
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
NNID
DuelistZano
#1 tip for bad Marths

Stop jumping for no reason at all. Relates to pointless aerials but committing to a jump with Marth is one of the most common things I see Marths doing that just get them blown up. The quickest and best way to improve your fundamentals as Marth is to develop a good ground game.

This is definitely a terrible habit of mine that I need to work on. idk why I jump so much.
 

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
13,676
I don't know if anyone still checks this thread, but watching Mr. R play ESAM this weekend brought something to my attention,

Against Pikachu, learn up to what percent utilt and usmash can hit and not kill you. This way, if you miss your DI, you don't get stuck needlessly momentum cancelling with fair and eating a thunder, unable to air dodge. Some times you can get away with it on usmash if you have a little DI, but it's still not worth it if you weren't going to die anyway. On top of that, when you do remember not to fair, watch the Pikachu and don't air dodge before he even calls the thunder.

This can actually be applied to other characters too, such as knowing that a ZSS throw is never going to kill you, so you don't need to throw out a fair or something which they'll be looking for to punish.
 

elliotnz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
125
3DS FC
0662-5906-3244
please tell me what DB1, DB2U, DB3D, DB4U/S and what pivot grabbing is
 
Top Bottom