• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The States of Gameplay, Footsies, and Traps - A Primer For Gameplay Concepts

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Introduction

I have been wanting to write this since the Smash 4 dropped for 3DS. With the release of Smash 4, you may be seeing ALOT of talk about different concepts. Certain words are popping up very frequently. Super Footsie Trap Brothers? Neutral state? What does all that even mean? Isn't this just Smash bros? Why all the serious fighting game talk? Why do these things even matter? This article aims to take a deeper look into the more intricate aspects of the game, while remaining both approachable for new players and refreshing for veterans. I think all players will find it to be enjoyable and I'm sure it will change the way you approach the game if you are a new player or if you feel you have plateaued OG. Please continue reading.

*Note - Some of this is copy/pasted from an article I wrote for Brawl. However the information itself is timeless and much of it can be applied to virtually any and all fighting games so, it still applies to smash 4*



The Three States of Gameplay

At any given moment in ANY fighting game, the fight will be in one of three states. I will go over each and talk about the options available to you in each one. Momentum is constantly shifting and true mastery of this game will require you to understand these three states and how your options are affected in each.

The Neutral State

The most common state. In this state all of your options are available to you. You can do as you please. You can walk, roll, jump, smash or what have you. It's also the most important state in the game because what you do in this state will decide how often you end up in the other two states which WILL decide how often you WRECK FOOLS and how often you get your butt handed to you on a silver platter. As I said before, in this state you can do as you please, but that doesn't mean you should. This state is really about being intelligent and testing the waters. Some things to consider while you are in this state is what your good options are. Do you have safe pokes that allow you to hit a shield without being punished? What are your mobility options? How do you deal with projectiles? When someone says such and such character is good at neutral, they are saying that character has alot of versatile tools that let them deal with a variety of situations. Pit is a great example. Solid pokes. Decent kill moves, SH aerials that finish before he lands. He has a projectile as well and even a forward rushing move with super armor with Upperdash Arm. Characters that are said to be weak in neutral are those that lack solid tools to impose their will. They usually have poor pokes and their attacks have alot of recovery which means they "commit" to their attacks, thus they require hard reads. Mastery of your options at neutral shows a strong command of how the game flows and how to establish dominance.

The State of Advantage

This is when one person has gained control over the other and now has momentum. The most obvious example of this is when one character has another in a combo. Clearly the aggressor has the advantage. But having the advantage can be much more subtle than that and it often is. Being at an advantage can be as simple as creating a situation where your opponent has to fight different or on your terms. You now control the pace of the match and your opponent must figure out a way to deal with that. Characters that can hit this state with a fair amount of ease are of course, the top tier characters. Rosalina is a strong example thanks to Luma. Luma's existence alone creates this state because her opponent has to figure out a way to deal with her. When you have advantage you want to maintain that advantage as long as possible. This usually means transitioning into a trap situation, but more on that later. Also it's important to not do anything that puts you into disadvantage. If you can't maintain advantage for w/e reason, let the fight reset to neutral. Better then getting overzealous and losing complete control right?

Just so we are clear, there are multiple states of advantage. I will list them. When your opponent is in a combo, when your opponent is high in the air or has been put into the air by you, when your opponent is on the ledge, when your opponent is lying on the ground and when your opponent is off the stage. Knowing your options and what your opponents options are in each situation is pivotal for staying in control and keeping your advantage going. And again, if your opponent manages to get out of your control, don't be reckless and put yourself in unnecessary danger to regain your control. You need to let the situation go back to neutral because that's alot better then being put at disadvantage which I will talk about next.


The State of Disadvantage

This state is the opposite of being at advantage. When one player is at advantage the other is at disadvantage. This is the state you don't want to be in and the state you will find yourself in the most when you first start out. Get used to it and know how to get out of it. The key to dealing with this state is just like the other states. Knowing your options. When you are at disadvantage you still have plenty of options. If you are on the ledge you can roll, get up, get up attack, ledge hop attack, ledge jump and your character may have character specific options like special moves that are useful in that scenario. If you are being comboed/attacked you can use DI to try to get out of the combo or maneuver yourself farther away so you can regain your footing. There are options in EVERY scenario and you must be able to think fast and act quickly to take control of the match and get advantage/back to neutral. Otherwise you'll get rocked. This different states of disadvantage are the inverse of the states of advantage. Basically w/e state of advantage the aggressor is in, the defender is the one in the same state only he is the one dealing with being under the control of the one who has advantage. When Luma is killed, Rosalina is now at disadvantage. Make her FEEL it.

Options will change according to how close you are to your opponent and what situation you are in. As always eliminate risky options that will get you killed easily. Go with what is safe and effective. If you are in the air then airdodging and fast falling to get to the ground quickly should be at the forefront of your mind. And as always, try not to be reckless about it. If you are lying on the ground and your opponent is shielding, do you really think it's a good idea to do a get up attack so your opponent can block it and then you get your face rearranged? Of course it's not a good idea, but I see it in real tournament matches and tournament vids all the time. Remember...just think smart and act on it.


Footsies

When you talk about Street Fighter or almost any fighting game, the term footsies usually means using your mobility, pokes and counter poking with normals to gain advantage and control. At the time of writing however, top players in FGs have been using the term more broadly to describe any kind if exchange at mid range where both chars are using their tools, vying for control(GamerBees Adon in SSFIV using Jaguar Kick in footsies is a strong example.) My own personal definition that I think is accurate and encompasses what footsies truly is really about, is as follows

The contest to establish dominance at mid range using whatever viable tools a character may have in their arsenal, while playing for space control at close range and trying to punish any over commitment the opponent may make. At the same time making sure that you do not overcommitment yourself and get punished for it.

This may seem broad, but it works. Not every move is good in footsies after all. Generally you want fast, safe, high priority attacks with little recovery on them. Alot of characters we consider to have good footsies have good pokes. Marth, Lucina, Pit, Dark Pit, Donkey Kong, ZSS, Shulk and Ike definitely come to mind. Can't forget Little Mac. He is very special. Mobility is another huge factor as well. Aerial mobility and walk speed are very important for minor adjustments in spacing.

Counter poking, baiting and whiff punishing still have a huge role in this game. Generally ground pokes are a commitment in this game. So if someone throws out a poorly spaced attack and it whiffs, its pretty easy to smack them right back for it. F-tilts in general tend to have good range and coverage but are unsafe on whiff and block. D-tilts tend to be safer, while doing less damage. This is a general rule, but it does not apply to every character. It's always great to know what you can punish and when from each character. General advice for counter poking is as follows. Short hop aerials with low hitting hitboxes/arcs are good for beating d-tilts. Use your mobility and empty short hops to bait out f-tilts, so you can punish. U-tilts are solid anti-airs. F-tilts are usually a characters most damaging raw poke, but tend to have alot of commitment and are therefore unsafe. D-tilts are usually fast and fairly safe, useful for poking at opponents. These are general rules however and some chars like Sheik for example have a very fast low commitment f-tilt that set up for more combos/set-ups. Experiment with your character and see what button should be used for what.

I mentioned short hopping and in Smash it adds an extremely interesting dynamic due to how it changes footsies. SHing gives an added mobility option as well as "aerial pokes". Marth is notorious for this gameplay in every game he has appeared in. Jigglypuff and Wario as well are monstrous at SH based footsies. Since aerials cannot clash this makes chars with good aerial mobility and SH aerials invaluable for this kind of footsies gameplay.

Some characters like Peach and the Links can throw items. Item throwing is a great footsie option. You are at little risk if it's blocked. And many times even if its blocked you still maintain advantage. To make up for this, you will notice that neither Peach or the Links have amazing pokes overall. Link has very little recovery on his aerials and Peach has her fair as a scary aerial, but overall their footsies are not amazing due to range limitations or lack of safety on the rest of their moveset. Peach can also float so her footsies are pretty unique and imo make her extremely interesting to play and fight against.

Attacks with super armor can be a game changer. Remember I mentioned Little Mac right? Most high level players/theorist agree Little Mac's footsies are incredible. Why? He has no good SH aerials. Well, let's see. His regular tools are great. Frame 1 jab. Frame 3 f-tilt. D-tilt is fast, safe and set-ups for KO punch. It can also combo into itself. But even if you could outfootsie him and some chars can do this consistently like Shulk or Pit, he can blow through them with super armor. This puts risk vs reward in his favor, thus making him stronger in neutral as his opponent is more likely to want to be defensive. All his smashes have super armor and can be hard to punish on block when looking at f-smash and d-smash. If Little Mac sees his opponent SH at him he can throw out an f-smash and even if he misses he probably didn't risk much. If they airdodged then he can punish the huge recovery time on landing. If they double jumped, he is probably safe. Little Macs footsies are actually very anti-footsies. Letting him negate the footsie tools of other chars and exert his will when they try to play that game vs him. Pit has armor on his upperdash arm as well, so he can call a move and blow through his opponent, though upperdash arm is not hard to punish so Pit has to be careful.

Transcendent Priority is an important factor in footsies. This trait is such that any move with it will not interact with other hitboxes. Only shields and hurtboxes. Foxes and Falcos lasers are transcendent if you need a point of reference. Marth's Dancing Blade is transcendent. Theoretically he could outfootsie almost any character that uses their limbs to poke as he would strike their limb, never clash. There are other examples but that is the most obvious.

Special attacks in footsies are not uncommon in other fighters (Fei-Long's Rekka Ken) and they have their place here too. Lucarios Force Palm and Marth's Dancing Blade that I mentioned previously both come to mind, but Robin's footsies really take the crown here. Robin's best footsie options are special moves. Arc Thunder and Arc Fire both control space really well and limit the opponent thus increasing Robin's potency at neutral.

Conversion is probably the most important factor in footsies. Conversion is literally being able to "convert" a poke/attack during footsies into a combo or a trap situation. Preferably a combo. Little Mac can convert a D-tilt into a KO punch. Game ending conversion not unlike Chun-li in 3s. Pokes that lead into traps are good examples. Ike's d-tilt into a potential land/air trap. Same for Pit. Robin has strong conversion as his/her best footsie options traps their opponent in one spot for a moment.


Mobility/Movement in Footsies


In traditional fighters mobility is the biggest factor in footsies. Being able to weave in and out of someones zone to bait an attack and then respond with your own, is footsies at it's most basic. In Smash however, walking back and forth IS good, but not quite as good in traditional fighters mainly due to turn speeds. Still aerial mobility is a huge factor in playing footsies especially the short game. Smash 4 also has specific movement techniques that when mastered can elevate a chars footsie game to new heights. Marth and Roy will be my examples for this. Marth and Roy both possess excellent overall mobility. Both have good walk and run speeds. Marth is THE fastest walker with Roy only walking a bit slower. Roy has a really good run speed as well, with Marth being only a little slower. Using advanced movement techs such as dance trotting, perfect pivoting, fox trotting and a few other basics such as empty short hopping and short hop airdodge with Marth, it is possible to create a movement style that is hyper focused, threatening, evasive and able to respond quickly to any changes in a battle. Because they are swordsmen they can throw out quick pokes from pivots and SH's with little commitment and any whiff poked is easy prey for Double Edge Dance/Dancing Blade. This style of play is super reactive and precision based, but can be extremely oppressive not to mention very impressive. Of course all this applies to Lucina as well.


Differente characters can use different mechanics and techs to various levels of effectiveness. And some characters have other unique options. Ryu for example using his FADC has a very stylish and interesting movement style unique to him, made even more potent with b-reverses and wave bouncing.




Experiment with your character and see what they can do. Even implementing basic empty SH baits can greatly improve your footsie game since you are not very vulnerable and have still have many options available to you.


Avoiding Footsies

Not everyone wants to play footsies all the time depending on the match or who you play. I would never advise Fox to play footsies with Marth. That is a losing battle. Fox simply does not have the tools. Fox is the second fastest walker in the game. Marth is the fastest. Marth has better horizontal aerial movement speed as well. Marth has a sword. Marth has better pokes and Marth's f-tilt when tippered can kill Fox at reasonable percents, around 115%. So, what is Fox supposed to do when Marth tries to engage in footsies?

Simple.

Fox should deny him. He has two options. The first is run away. This is very viable strategy. Fox runs faster and Fox illusion can get Fox out of tight spots and reset the fight to neutral. After gaining some space he can shoot lasers at Marth and build percent. This is a frustration tactic. Footsies takes a calm and reactive state of mind. If you make Marth angry or fluster him, it will be that much harder for him to slow down the pace of the match and zone out Fox with his blade.

The second option is to RUSH THAT **** DOWN! Get at Marth hard and fast. Use Foxes speed to overwhelm Marth's defense, put him in a bad position and build up his damage. Keep him off balance with different attacks and feints. This is much riskier than the first option, but a strong offense can shake up even a battle hardened opponent, if its tight enough.

Knowing when to play footsies and when not too is just as important as actually being good at footsies itself.


Traps

This is when a player forces an opponent into a bad position that they can take advantage of. There are many variations of traps and the effectiveness will vary depending on which character you are, which character you are facing, and your positioning on the stage. Traps are extremely effective because once your opponent is forced into a bad position, their options become very limited. Then it's just a matter of choosing an option of yours that covers the option they are most likely to take which will usually be their very best option.

Traps - Attacks

An attack trap is when any attack done by you limits the options of your opponents. Easiest and most well known example is Marth's d-tilt trap. When Marth's d-tilt is blocked he is put in a strong advantage. He can respond to almost any option his opponent takes. Roll towards Marth gives him a free punish. Jumping at him is an easy anti air. The best options are roll away or SH backwards. These are ok, but it means they give up stage control and put themselves closer to the ledge. This kind of trap is probably the hardest to master as it requires great reaction time and spacing.


Traps - Projectiles

With this you use the projectile to force a reaction and then have an option to cover the reaction of your opponent. With projectile traps the goal is to use your projectile to test your opponent and see what they do. Once you have observed their reactions and and most common ways of dealing with your projectile you can devise appropriate counter measures.
ZSS has the charged paralyzer trap. When chasing after her own charged paralyzer shot, her opponent is quite limited. ZSS can punish several options on reaction or easily let it reset to neutral. In truth her opponent really can't challenge her outright. This situation favors her by a good margin. Not infallible, but an advantageous situation for sure. This is using projectiles intelligently to limit your opponents options, observe their actions, and then pick them apart. Toon Link is another great example of this. He can throw his boomerang upwards which covers one approach option. He can then shoot an arrow in a SH which further limits the opponent. Now you know your opponent will most likely come in low and approach with dashing and when they do you can score a grab. This is another example of projectile traps at work.

Traps - Airdodge

This trap is simple and very common in Smash 4. The idea is to draw out an airdodge then punish accordingly. This is not a bait really. This is more taking advantage of the recovery time of the dodge then punishing when your opponent can't do anything. Depending on when the trap occurred, this is sometimes called an air trap or a land trap, but both traps follow the same concept. Force a dodge then punish. CF is really great at these thanks to Uair having such little recovery and his awesome ground speed. FYI it's easier when done as a land trap and you attempt to force an airdodge into the ground, since this will give the airdodge 22 frames of recovery upon landing. Plenty of time to punish. Many characters excel at these for various reasons. Pit due to lingering hitboxes and multiple jumps. ZSS and CF as mentioned, due to great ground speed and low recovery Uairs. Marth/Lucina due to range and great aerial horizontal movement speed. Fox due to being a high jumper and a fast faller can set these up very well. MK while having poor air speed has multiple jumps and nice specials for this kind of trap. Her aerials are great for it as well.


Traps - Ledge

Ledge traps are also very common and very easy to do. When an opponent is on the ledge they have several options. They have roll get up, ledge hop into an aerial, ledge attack, normal get up and ledge jump. If you space yourself so that their get up attack would miss you if they tried, you have effectively covered most of their options. If they roll get up you can just throw them back out or get a free attack. If they normal get up then you can just rush in and attack or grab and throw them back out to reset the situation. The best two options would be ledge hop aerial or ledge jump. But if you are facing a character with bad ledge hop options or a character that is easily juggled then you know they are limited to one option or the other. But abusing traps like this is key to beating certain characters since it takes advantages of certain weaknesses they may have. Ledge traps while not as potent as they were in previous Smash games, are still important to high level play. Ledge trumping also plays an important part here. So if you see your opponent about to grab the ledge, go for it yourself. When they eject try to end the stock before they realize what happened.


Traps - Throws

Different characters can also use their throws as traps. Sonic's d-throw is a great trap. Even if they tech he can pressure from there pretty easily. CF has good d-throw traps too. Basically any character with an u-throw/d-throw with good recovery, decent aerials that don't have alot of landing recovery as well as solid mobility, probably have a solid throw trap game. Greninja and Sheik also come to mind.

Traps - Edgeguarding

This is the most obvious trap of them all and one that everyone does constantly. When your opponent is off the stage you are clearly at a distinct advantage. There isn't much work to be done in this situation. Generally you will at least damage your opponent even if you don't outright gimp them. Alot of the time simply running out with an aerial is enough to force an airdodge or another type of reaction that you can take advantage of. Edgeguarding strats vary from character to character of course as will their effectiveness. This is probably the only section that pretty much every player already knew about before I talked about it, but it's still the best trap situation in the game and it's very easy to take advantage of, so I had to mention it.


Dealing with Traps

There is no trick to getting out of these situations. You just have to know your options. And for characters that simply don't have the tools to get out of certain traps unscathed, the only thing I can truly say to you is to try your hardest not to get caught in that particular trap. Some characters simply cannot be walled or trapped really. Like MK for example. He has options no matter what situation he is in. Other characters like say Ganondorf, can be trapped pretty easily. Characters with counters have a nice answer to traps if they call a move at the right time. Moves that change trajectory or momentum are invaluable as well. Zelda, Metaknight, ZSS and Sheik are all chars that are good at getting out of trap situations consistently.

Risk vs Reward and Momentum Shifts

Remember when I said to eliminate risks from your gameplay? Eh. I may have fibbed a bit. See, knowing when to take a risk is a huge part of getting better and definitely plays a part in the 3 States and can cause a huge swing in momentum when you guess right. Knowing when to take a risk is about making a good read on your opponent. Let' say as Little Mac you get put into an air trap situation and you have no jump. Your percentage is still low though and your opponent's is high. One clean counter will seal your opponents stock and win you the game. Your opponent is playing Captain Falcon and he's looking for a Uair to U-smash air dodge trap so he can reset you. You call the U-smash perfectly and Little Mac absorbs the blow and comes back swinging. CF gets blown away completely and you win the game. This is just one example where it can be worth it take a risk because it can allow a player to go from disadvantage to advantage. Mac COULD have went for a safer option and attempted a reset to neutral, but this risk got him the win so it was worth it. Even at lower percents it can be worth it to try, simply because it will show your opponent that you are not afraid. This will make them respect you more and they may even hesitate a bit in situations that require quick critical thinking. Risk vs reward is a huge part of this and different characters have different risk vs reward ratios. Ike is a prime example. A smash at high percents from him is very scary and demands respect. If an Ike player makes it clear he is not scared to try for a smash occasionally, it forces his opponent to approach the match vs him a bit differently and more cautiously. Heavy weights in general have good risk vs reward ratios when it comes to damage and KO power.



Everyone, that wraps it up. I truly hope it was a good read. I also hope I was able to open your eyes to what's really going on in a high level match and how you can take your own game to a higher level. If you are already in that upper echelon of players then at least I hope my words gave you some inspiration so maybe you can cook up something new with your character of choice.

Just remember to play smart and think beyond.

Thanks for reading my intro to high level concepts and good luck in...

Super Footsie Trap Bros: Smash Caliber Edition

;)

Special thanks to @Locke 06 for pming me about risk vs reward and shifts in momentum. Definitely an oversight on my part for not mentioning those two important aspects of high level play.

Shout-outs to @En.Ee.Oh and @HoodedAltair

And please check these vids out if you wanna step up your movement game.


 
Last edited:

IcyFlamz96

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
29
This is the first smash game where I will actually attempt to become a competitive level player. I better be pro after reading this.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Awesome thing about footsies is once you know about it and start applying it, your gameplay gets better and better every time you play.

Guys if you feel I missed something important please let me know.
 
Last edited:

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
All of Metaknights normals are transcendent as well.
I'm pretty sure this isn't the case in this game! At least not on the 3DS

Your original article in the Brawl era was quite defining for I think a lot of us =) Good information and food for thought even still especially putting to words some of the things we often get questions about!
 
Last edited:

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Oh, they aren't anymore?

Bah, humbug.

Thanks though. editted.
 
Last edited:

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Oh, they aren't anymore?

Bah, humbug.

Thanks though. editted.
Hey! It's not freaking Xmas yet! Damn you, industries! Skipping over Halloween, Thanksgiving, Kwanzaa, and Hanukkah! I remember seeing Xmas stuff being put up before October even started. Oh, and did I mention how Black Friday is slowly creeping into Black Thursday?! Alas... a time for giving and family is being overshadowed by mindless and violent shopping.

Anyway, very informative.
 
Last edited:

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
It is indeed a good read. I already understood this concept but this post brings in a strong amount of refinement to it.

When I read it, I was reminded of Starcraft II, and the concept of initiative. For those discourage by the length of the video, the overall message is "Look for opportunities. Do not force opportunities, that will get you killed." The message in that video is similar, if not exactly the same message that the OP is conveying here.

Though the only question I have now is, with the definition that is stated here for footsies, what is the difference between that and zoning? Isn't Zoning also a matter of dominance within mid to far range? To control space and force the opponent into similar traps stated above? I feel Rosalina is the definition of a zoning character, rather than a footsie character.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
footsies is really a subset of zoning which really includes any and all forms of control you would attempt at neutral. For example Marth is a zoner but he is doing it at mid range through footsies. Same with Jiggs. Projectile zoning as you are talking about is in there as well yes.

I mean it's all control really. Just about who does it better.
 

icraq

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,020
Location
Spokane
NNID
McJesusCrucifry
3DS FC
0662-2567-7986
Funny, I just randomly google searched for an article like this and this is exactly what I wanted to find. And it was just posted an hour ago. Always cool when things like this work out. Good write up!
 

InfinityCollision

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,245
Though the only question I have now is, with the definition that is stated here for footsies, what is the difference between that and zoning? Isn't Zoning also a matter of dominance within mid to far range? To control space and force the opponent into similar traps stated above? I feel Rosalina is the definition of a zoning character, rather than a footsie character.
Footsies is a thing you do and zoning is how certain characters want to do it. Zoning implies a very specific form of spatial control in which you want to maintain a certain position or set of interactions between yourself and your opponent, because that state is how you best create advantage for yourself and avoid entering a disadvantaged state. If Marth is too far from his opponent he can't do much (while the opponent might have options at that range), if they're too close then his poor defenses become apparent. Keeping them just beyond tipper range allows him to act with the greatest combination of freedom/safety for himself and pressure against his opponent. A long-range zoner would want even more distance and constantly try to reset to that state, etc.
 
Last edited:

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
Good read. I had a semblance of all this before reading.

Now I just need to get better at them.

One thing I would add to end is that if you're struggling in any of the areas, watch top players of your character(s) and see what they do in the situations. Don't try to re-invent the wheel, and they wouldn't be a top player if their stuff didn't work consistently.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
First post updated at the bottom. Risk vs Reward and Momentum Shifts
 

ATH_

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
757
Location
California
3DS FC
0963-0267-2548
Switch FC
6592-1642-9705
Bumping this thread up because people need to read this! Fantastic read, thank you. Coming from a player who doesn't have very much experience in actual tournaments or against really good players, this definitely will stick to my mind and I'm sure it'll help me grow into a better player!
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
If you don't mind it/prefer it (not too sure on how exposure goes in relation to the two right now) I'll move this to the academy EL?
Perhaps not right away for the exposure reason but at some point? Let me know.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Do your thing. My concern is helping people reach their full potential. Whatever you believe the best course of action to reach that end is fine with me.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Good read. I'll have to share this.

One avenue for adding more depth to your post is to mention how horizontal/vertical ground/air speed impact a character's ability to set up air traps. e.g. Marth's high horizontal air speed, Fox's high jump/fall speed, MK's low air speed being somewhat negated by his special options, etc.

Also, buffering a movement from the ledge is an easy way to avoid trump setups.
 
Last edited:

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
solid write up as always EL. good to see someone who is capable of discerning the similarities in footsies among fighters. Although while Street Fighter is often the de facto choice for a foostie topic, I would love to point you to the (imo) greater similarities among KoF footsies vs Smash footsies. They both utilize a mixture of ground and short hop pokes, as well as dashes AND run based movements. I truly feel KoF is the closest thing to Smash a traditional FG has ever been.

Anyways I think this is a good primer for beginners, however I would say if you are aiming for high level conceptualization of footsies then a more thorough discussion should be held. For example, I dont feel the importance of short hop footsies were fleshed out nearly enough, as they can be in some cases the equivalent of hop kicks in traditional fighters. I believe the tools within footsies should be more fleshed out, tech crouch normals, tech jump normals, etc. theres tons of normals that are quite powerful because of other attributes besides transcendental priority and super armor in certain situations. Even discussing hurtboxes vs hitboxes in terms of good normals. Also if we are to describe footsie I do believe you do have to give a least a brief explanation of how people avoid footsies in fighters ( which is something equally important).

So all in all I think its a great write up, but I do believe the topic is misnamed. While it may be high level concepts to beginners, these are things that should be standard when someone is being introduced to competitive play. I believe this is important because it must be discerned that there is more than this at high level competitive play. I know given the nature of Smash and how most people come to play it, some people will consider themselves competitors without entertaining these ideas, however as informant of competitive play I believe we should hold those ideas to a higher standard. SOOOO basically I love it; I just think its a primer moreso than anything. Keep it up EL, glad to see you back homie.


Oh and thank goodness for writing about Marth; I believe people need give Marth a break. Hes got some solid strings, some true combos from dthrow, and slide from the true pivot ( without the use of the dash) is honestly amazing for Marth and his lovely dtilt. Plus hes always been a legend at juggling, which he does fantastically in this game. I really think he's gonna be far more solid that people seem to realize lol.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
There is no true end to a discussion about footsies. There are way too many variables involved. Also the concept itself should be learned early but footsies is a never ending learning process.

Its impossible for me to even pretend that i could flesh out every scenario. The best i can do is talk about the most common/relevant situations.

If you find the name misleading, i will gladly change it.

As far as kof is concerned, hyper hops are generally better.

Dbz hyper dimension also has short hops.

I am no stranger to fighting games i promise you.

I will update the thread later today.

Also i actually do feel traps are the final frontier. Not just smash but all fighters. It just comes down to how consistent and deadly they are.
 
Last edited:

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,992
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
Very neat article, even if I knew a lot about these things by "heart". Seems about time I learned how they're defined as.

My question to the part talking about "risk VS reward", I'm bit concerned about going easily "reckless", which makes me look more of throwing moves about to whiffing infinitum rather than try to turn the momentum to my favour.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
That is something that can't be taught. You assess the situations and ask yourself, do I go for it or not? And if your gut says yes..then do it.

Updated: Cleaned up some of the writing. Added the Avoiding Footsies paragraphs. Added a bit more on airdodge traps and why quite a few characters are good at them. Talked a bit more about counter poking and the effect short hopping has. Changed Thread title to more accurately reflect what I'm trying to do with this thread.
 
Last edited:

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,538
Location
Fullerton, CA
NNID
Bambatta
OH @ Emblem Lord Emblem Lord I know you arent a stranger to fighters man. I wasnt attempting to be condescending in the slightest. I completely concur with you about the myriad of variable involved in footsies; which is why a suggested the name change as I felt it could be perceived from the initial title that footsie kind of ends there. I definitely feel primer stands as a more appropriated term for your thread. As for tech jumps and tech crouches, I hope it was understood that I wasnt referring to situations but rather attacks that tech jump or tech crouch in terms of footsie tools. Like CF usmash tech jumping some ftilts and dtilts, or Kirby tech crouching aerials with his dtilt. Or better example, what moves have good cross up properties or explaining the prevalence of hop kicks/sh aerials ( as thats basically what they exemplify in smash). Lastly, I do believe a solid amount of risk vs reward that @ ~ Valkyrie ~ ~ Valkyrie ~ was referring to can indeed be taught and I feel the traditional FGC has done a great deal to showcase those things in old articles from SKill, Youtube vids from LAAkuma, UltraChens stuff, leveupyourgame.com, and my personal favor from a great friend of mine Maj, his footsie handbook on his website sonichurricane.com. In fact not too long ago, I had worked on a similar project translating smash concepts in a similar fashion, while combining the terminology from smash and traditional fighters so that people could see the transcendence of footsies in fighting games.

So do you ultimately assess the situation and decide for yourself? Absolutely, but there is framework one can learn or be taught that can provide proper tools to heighten your level of assessment. There's base patterns that can give insights into an opponents ideologies of the match that can be integral in discerning when you should "go for it." Methodology in spacing, Of placing yourself within footsies or even avoiding footsies all together in that set time. Moves that have certain priorities because of the angles of space they occupy that give weight in using that tool in more situations than other etc etc. Again Im sure you are more than aware of these things EL. I am merely writing this out to the audience of the thread that may not be. At any case, if you wish to build on this idea I would honestly recommend taking a look at my friend Majs site. Its touted as being one of the great sources of footsie information in the Traditional FGC. Also if theres anyway I can aid you in your endevours or even if you just want to toss around ideas with one another feel free to pm me mah man. We should play Smash 4 as well haha. Definitely will add you soon.


P.S: If anything doesnt make any sense bear with me; I havent slept in 2 days lol. Im on the verge of collapse.
 

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
This was a very interesting article for me. I've learned all of these concepts by myself through analyzing high level brawl gameplay, which was one of my hobbies for the past two years, but I never put those concepts into words. Now that I've seen these concepts in words, it will be easier for me to recall them when I'm not playing the game or watching a match, and it will be easier to explain to new players.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Very good read emblem lord. Locke just referenced me to this, you definitely wrote this in a way that makes me rethink a lot of what I do in any given game.
 

Kirbech

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3
This was a great read, many thanks for the write-up! I'll just add that for new players that are learning the ropes, two great characters to learn both footsies and footsies conversion from are Falco and Donkey Kong; both have multiple footsie tools with good range and both have the ability to convert into traps and true followups in many ways, making footsies an integral and rewarding part of their gameplay.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
6,000
Location
New Jersey
NNID
almostlegendary
3DS FC
1349-7081-6691
Just nitpicking here but your definition of footsies is wrong. The concept of footsies has less to do with your pokes but more to do with your mobility walking in and out of your opponents ideal range / zone. The concept is a bit different in smash because of the aerial game but it still applies.

An example of this would be Makoto she has strong pokes with cr.m and st.m but her footsies are bad because of her terrible walk speed.

If we use Marth as the smash example he has good footsies and pokes with good aerial mobility. His effective range is at the tip. So this allows him to play a footsies game at ranges that most characters would be ineffective at.

The reason walk speed/mobility is important in footsies is to be able to get in and out of your opponents effective ranges. The worse your mobility the harder it is for you to get in and stay in.
 
Last edited:

Sodo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
274
This was an excellent, informative read. This should be something every new player takes a look at after learning the basics.
 

LightLV

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
748
Here's my guide.

Part 1: Pick a good character

1) pick a character with good aerials and autocancel properties
2) pick a character who can get more than 40 guaranteed damage off a grab
3) pick a character who can get more than 30 guaranteed damage off a lagless normal
4) pick a character with a kill move that is high-priority, hard to punish, and confirms off simple hits.

Now you're ready to fight!

Part 2: How to win

5) Throw out safe aerials until someone does something stupid
6) ????????????????????
7) they're at 65%
8) kill them


The End


This is an informative read, but i felt the need to simplify for those who dont like to read, lolol
 
Last edited:

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Seems to me like you felt the need to simplify because of your hostility/disgust towards the game in general, judging by other posts you have made in the past.

But wtf do I know. I'm Emblem Lord not Professor X.

@ A AlMoStLeGeNdArY

I talk about mobility but its important to remember mobility alone doesnt win footsies. There are plenty of chars with ass walk speed for example that outpoke and outfootsie alot of characters for days. Slayer from GG comes to mind. He is a footsie (vampire) god. But his walk speed is laughable. He has other mobility options and amazing buttons to make up for this. Mobility is definitely huge though and I do talk about it, specifically when I mention short hopping which is the way most players create tension and try to bait something so they can punish.

And yes you were definitely nitpicking but im used to it. Its kind of what you do.
 

Tainic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
75
Location
France
NNID
Tainic
3DS FC
5327-2155-2373
Really neat stuff, maybe you should've mentionned stuff like Reflectors, neutering the tools of some characters and limiting their options. (Like Pit obviously wont just poke with arrows against a Fox etc.)

Good read.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Updated with more talk about mobility options. "Mobility/movement in footsies." Also added some vids
 
Last edited:

I speak Spanish too

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
243
@ Emblem Lord Emblem Lord What are the benefits of SH air dodge assuming you have no landing lag. Also, nice guide by the way, one thing worth mentioning is that extended dash dancing and SH empty hops are used in two different stages of neutral. In situations where both players are in each other's burst option zones SHFF's are good in which extended dash dancing is good when you pressure your opponent into a corner, on the ledge, or they are in pure neutral. extended dash dances can be used when both characters are in their burst option zones both you can only dash back because if you were to dash forward you can get hit. You can do a singular dash dance but that still leaves you open a bit. The player won't dash back because then they'll just be closer to the ledge.

I think the most important part of footsies though is using low commitment options, seeing how they react and adapt. What do you think is best when trying to get a grasp of your opponent's habits and patterns and choosing an option to counteract their habits? You could just keep playing your game until they adapt to it, then you adapt back. But, you get punished idk. I think all in all it's god discernment and knowing "He's gonna try to attack me out of my extended dash dance, so I stuff his approach, while maintaining safe, and looking at the max amount of reward.
 
Top Bottom