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The Smash Lab Standard Terms List 2.0

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Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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PTZR, that's a Meteor Cancel.

Also, yeah, I know Pit loses his double jumps after being hit out of WoI. I have to have gimped fUddO enough times because of that. But if Pit has a double jump left, he CAN meteor cancel. If you're hit out of WoI, I'm sorry, character weakness.

Oh, and in Melee Ganon was mid-tier. Obviously I should expect to do well with him in tournament in Brawl.
 

Ohmu

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Regarding glide tossing :

every character but Yoshi can, a lot of characters just don't benefit of it.

Polt learn to read

Glide Toss [Universal*] [...]
*excluding Yoshi
Are you sure? I'm a D3 main, and he...can't glide toss. Having seconded wolf for a while, I know he also can't. Wolf mains have to use an obscure AT to get the same effect as glide tossing (jump cancelled something or other)? If what D3 and wolf do when you press the glide toss inputs qualifies as "glide tossing," it must only be so as a technicality. I don't see them gain any horizontal distance at all during the throw.
 

Ohmu

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thats what they mean - every character can do it (bar yoshi), not every character gets a benefit from it

and the alternative is jump cancel throw, which is helpful for the characters that dont have movement on their glide toss
I guess I'm confused as to what a glide toss is, then. I thought a glide toss was defined as "throwing an item while you slide horizontally (on account of cancelling your roll)." What makes D3's throw a glide toss if you don't slide horizontally? If you press the inputs for a glide toss, he either throws the item Oos, or rolls, depending on your timing, neither of which seems like a glide toss...right?

If the purpose of this Terms List is to help new smashers figure out what characters are capable of, it seems counterproductive to ascribe abilities to characters when there're no visual cues that the ability is performed after the inputs are pressed (i.e., "well, D3 does enter his roll animation for 2 frames* before he throws the item, so technically it counts as a glide toss"). If I were a noob D3 main and read the "glide toss" section in the OP, I would set out to practice it, then think I'm doing something wrong in pressing the inputs or lose faith in the accuracy of the list.

*this number is only a guess
 

standardtoaster

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A glide toss is just interrupting the first few starting frames of a roll with an item toss. Afaik, the distance you travel is based on how far the character moves on the X axis in the animation and their traction.

:phone:
 

DeLux

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I guess I'm confused as to what a glide toss is, then. I thought a glide toss was defined as "throwing an item while you slide horizontally (on account of cancelling your roll)." What makes D3's throw a glide toss if you don't slide horizontally? If you press the inputs for a glide toss, he either throws the item Oos, or rolls, depending on your timing, neither of which seems like a glide toss...right?

If the purpose of this Terms List is to help new smashers figure out what characters are capable of, it seems counterproductive to ascribe abilities to characters when there're no visual cues that the ability is performed after the inputs are pressed (i.e., "well, D3 does enter his roll animation for 2 frames* before he throws the item, so technically it counts as a glide toss"). If I were a noob D3 main and read the "glide toss" section in the OP, I would set out to practice it, then think I'm doing something wrong in pressing the inputs or lose faith in the accuracy of the list.

*this number is only a guess
The purpose of the list isn't to help new smashers per say. It's to help ALL smashers be more technically correct when discussing things and making sure we're all on the same page when talking about technical aspects of Brawl.

On that note, what if we named it "Roll Cancelling Item Toss" instead of "Glide Toss". Then there wouldn't be any issue of whether DDD could RCIT, he just wouldn't have the glide attributed to the technique like many other characters. The only issue is, people don't know it as RCIT, but as Glide Toss. So I see where you're coming from. It's just a naming issue imo.
 

Spelt

BRoomer
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Glide Toss [Universal*] - Throwing an item during the initial frames of a roll. Characters move in the direction they roll, but the distance they glide is character dependent.

Done.
fixed .
 

Indigo Jeans

 
Premium
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Savage props to all my Labby bros and KayLo for finishing this when I failed to deliver

I think I'm going to cry
 

B.A.M.

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can smash labs tell me why Fox can force an air release on MK while other small characters cant? I think wolf can too.
 

Kinzer

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Because this is the way Sakurai wanted it to be.

You want a perfect example to see why trying to make sense of it won't work?

Look at Sonic. then look at Meta Knight or Wario. Have Sonic grab Wario. Notice that Sonic cannot force Wario to air release despite clearly being taller than the two aforementioned? Now go and grab Wario with either of the two, and go knock yourself out.

I'm surprised no one else has addressed this sooner.

I'm surprised I'm still in the Smash Lab despite my sever lack of inactivity no thanks to WoW. I can't even help but type out "Warior" and having to backspace constantly.

:093:
 

Yikarur

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^ everything can be explained! we just have to find the explanation. Don't say something like that because there is a reason for everything the game does.
 

Kinzer

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^ everything can be explained! we just have to find the explanation. Don't say something like that because there is a reason for everything the game does.
Tell me why my characters occasionally trip over themselves and one reason used to explain it is because "it gives a better sense of realism" when we have dinosaurs and anthropomorphic hedgehogs and covert Ops agents and mustached plumbers mooking about. :(

Hey, I spelled Anthro right! :D

:093:
 

Yikarur

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you're compare-question doesn't make sense.
you could also ask why does Diddys jump leave the ground faster than Snakes.

but the Grab Release Question is a technical question that can be answered.
 

Kinzer

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you're compare-question doesn't make sense.
you could also ask why does Diddys jump leave the ground faster than Snakes.

but the Grab Release Question is a technical question that can be answered.
Well alright, I'll stop humoring and actually try to respond in a proper fashion.

AFAIK, or AFAIC, it really is nothing more than game design. Some of the characters' lore is lost, others is added and isn't explained from their franchise; yet this trend is present in all forms.

As for whether or not there is truly any consistency in it is beyond me, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came to nothing more than that. You can reasonably assess that for example that characters who have a lot of weaponry in their arsenal tend to be heavier, or fall faster. Characters who fight with nothing more than their bare hands and have a more slender build tend to be more agile and mobile than the more bulky characters; that's all to be expected with what we understand from past experience.

Sure you have anomalies, and it's definitely the job of the Smash lab to figure them out and explain them in proper detail; but let's assume that there really is a trend. Where would you start? The only thing I can think of is stage composition. Afterall, they aren't symetrical even if they look like it, so why shouldn't they be... not flat either (for lack of better terms)?

But again that's just making assumptions. Find me a way to make Sonic hold his opponent is a grab higher than the waist/torso and you'll make me a very happy person that's for sure at least. Too bad AI programs can't adept like a human can or there wouldn't be a need to make certain MUs as bad as they are. :/

:093:
 

MK26

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the thing is, tho, that fox can only force an air realease off an mk if the mk is in the air when he is grabbed, and if the fox pummels him immediately. any other scenario (mk is on ground, or mk is in air but fox doesnt pummel immediately) and fox cant force an air release
 

moomoomamoo

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Is there a term for when you're in an egg from yoshi's special? Same question for when you're asleep from Jiggs? :p Not important, but just wanted to ask.
 

MARLX

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Wow this thread shows a lot of effort and just reading one little bit of information made the game more understandable. Also very easy to follow.
 

earla

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Attn: Smash lab

wolf boards need an accurate list of frame data + shield dis/advantage.

Asap

thanks
 
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