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The Smash-Charge Vulnerability (new vid)

Adapt

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Credit goes to DJ Kat from the Jigglypuff boards for this discovery.
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193297

When a character is in the charging animation of a smash attack and they get hit, There is an increased chance of being killed.


Now I decided to look into this to see just how much extra knockback attacks deal when hitting someone out of the charging animation. It turns out that it is almost exactly 20% more knockback no matter what move you use.

Data:
Code:
Char.	Move	%	Charge	Normal	%Change
Ike 	Fsmash	23%	4213	3510	20.02849003
		323%	24793	20661	19.99903199
Samus	Charge	26%	2629	2182	20.48579285
		326%	15600	12991	20.08313448
Ganon	A	9%	2145	1769	21.2549463
		309%	12003	9993	20.11407986
Ike 	Utilt	12%	3784	3153	20.01268633
		312%	14558	12132	19.99670293
Info:

- Ness's yo-yo smashes are immune to this vulnerability
- B moves that charge are also immune (Ike's Side-B, Samus' N-B, etc)
- It doesn't matter what smash attack the foe is charging, it produces the same effect.
- It doesn't matter how long the attack has been charging: <Example>
- I obviously didn't check every move in the game, but I tried more than I am showing here. They all gave almost exactly 20% more knockback.
- It only increases the knockback of the first hit of a multi-hit move.
- This ONLY happens when the attack is being charged. You don't get the extra knockback at any other point.
If you are being hit out of your charged animation, it buffers into your DI so you can't actually DI properly. You get sent according to which direction you are smashing.



Uses:

Normally most people do not charge smash attacks. It is normally better to use the c-stick. However, there is one common instance where people can be punished in this manner: The DACUS (Dash attack cancelled up smash)
I know that in this video Snake is well above resting damage, but it illustrates how the DACUS can be punished.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=bVc-7wUOcVs&fmt=6
Check it out at 1:07.

Other potential uses include:
- using Samus/Lucario's charged shots to kill earlier
- Triggering a sticky C4 when the opponent is charging a smash
- Throwing strong items while the attack is being charged (Peach's Deathnip, ZSS's armor pieces, etc)
- punishing people for being noobs :)

Videos:


Here are a couple videos of how pound (which normally kills Yoshi at 174 with no DI) is killing in the 130-140 range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpUfht_uetQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFq4A5AjU1U

GaW being killed by samus at the very beginning of his smash attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFEQZrT-MpI

Toon Link killing Metaknight at 0%!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQj9YXD2RM&fm=22


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Tenki for a decent sounding name
 

Thinkaman

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This isn't exactly a game changer, but it's a pretty significant and cool new discovery. Good point on the DACUS.
 

Blackbelt

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So when one is charaging a Smash, the knockback of moves that hit them are increased during the charging animation?



.....wow.
 

Onomanic

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Hm very interesting. Maybe it was (probably is) an intentional game mechanic and a clever one at that. If you were charging something, you wouldn't be ready to get hit would you? So very interesting indeed.
 

HeroMystic

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This is a pretty good find since I'm an Ike main that likes to charge up U-Smash. <_<

I'll keep this in mind.
 

Adapt

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Adapt, you might as well test the physics of smash attacks. I don't know if it works for other characters, but SirRavin has a video of him KO'ing Mr. Game & Watch with Samus at 78%. Samus isn't capable of KO'ing Mr. Game & Watch this way.
That is just one more example of what I am talking about. Notice at the very instant that GaW gets hit he attempted to do a f-smash. Maybe you don't have to actually charge the smash attack? Even so, that takes either luck or incredibly precise timing.

Hm very interesting. Maybe it was (probably is) an intentional game mechanic and a clever one at that. If you were charging something, you wouldn't be ready to get hit would you? So very interesting indeed.
That occurred to me as well. Given that it is always 20% more it seems to have been designed that way.
 

Crystanium

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That is just one more example of what I am talking about. Notice at the very instant that GaW gets hit he attempted to do a f-smash. Maybe you don't have to actually charge the smash attack? Even so, that takes either luck or incredibly precise timing.
Wow! I didn't even see that, Adapt! All I saw was Mr. Game & Watch using his dash attack. I thought that is what had happened, and Samus retaliated with a d-smash. I didn't even see that f-smash. Very impressive!
 

Mortimer

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That is just one more example of what I am talking about. Notice at the very instant that GaW gets hit he attempted to do a f-smash. Maybe you don't have to actually charge the smash attack? Even so, that takes either luck or incredibly precise timing.
I'd imagine that the C-stick has a frame of charge to it where you could pull this off.

If you're in the smash animation after you've released the charge, do you still fly further?
 

Adapt

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I'd imagine that the C-stick has a frame of charge to it where you could pull this off.

If you're in the smash animation after you've released the charge, do you still fly further?
I just checked this out... it seems to be only while charging.

The vid that Dryn posted leads me to believe that this also happens during the very first frame of the smash attack but I have no way of confirming this.
 

Mortimer

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I just checked this out... it seems to be only while charging.

The vid that Dryn posted leads me to believe that this also happens during the very first frame of the smash attack but I have no way of confirming this.
Interesting. Thanks for breaking it all down for us!
 

Yeniths

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Something actually good in tactical forums :), thanks for this.
 

Lore

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Wow, a useful non-MK thread. Hard to find one of those these days...

Anyway, I had noticed a while back that charging affects knockback, but I never knew how much, plus I wasn't 100% sure. Great find!
 

JackieRabbit5

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interesting...now i feel better for attempting to attack ppl when charging even when i just get hit heh
 

Tenki

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So, hitting someone who's charging D-smash = death? (down DI+smashcharge vulnerability) lol

------------

Question: does this apply to only one hit, or the whole series of hits from an attack?

For example, if you hit someone who was charging a U-smash (holding A, but no direction) with say, the last hit of some move, like say last part of MK's F-air, will he go further than if you hit him with all the slices of the F-air?

...or does it only apply to the first hit that makes contact with your opponent?
 

Adapt

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Question: does this apply to only one hit, or the whole series of hits from an attack?

For example, if you hit someone who was charging a U-smash (holding A, but no direction) with say, the last hit of some move, like say last part of MK's F-air, will he go further than if you hit him with all the slices of the F-air?

...or does it only apply to the first hit that makes contact with your opponent?
It only modifies the knockback of the first hit that connects of a multi-hit attack.

I'll add all this additional info to the OP as I test things.


smashcharge vulnerability
Interesting name for the effect. I may have to borrow that :)

The Smash-Charge Vulnerability
 

Adapt

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Nope!

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess since you don't actually charge his yoyo smashes (the hitbox comes out immediately and stays out) it doesn't affect him.
His f-smash is still vulnerable though.
 

M15t3R E

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Amazing discovery.
It's great to keep in mind. However, I seldom charge my smashes and I don't think I'm alone on that. Still, this is something we all need to know.
 

~Peachy~

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♥This might be good for those Fsmash spamming Ikes, Dededes, and Snakes. ;)
 
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