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The [Shocking] Official R.O.B. Video Critique Thread

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Post your video in this thread and have it critiqued by me or anyone else who wants to.

IMPORTANT:

You can request a Detailed Analysis of your match so we can point out individual mistakes and then explain what the better option would be, or you can request a General Overview. You can also ask for both. You may also request a Comprehensive.

- A detailed analysis is very nitpicky and generally for high level players to fine-tune their game. Example: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6570907#post6570907.

- A general overview is for newer players who aren't as confident with R.O.B. A full analysis will NOT help as much as a general overview for many new players. You learn to play the trumpet after you learn how to blow through the mouthpiece. Example: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6640293#post6640293.

- A comprehensive is a comprehensive combo of the two. We can't review every single one this way though. Example: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6784316#post6784316.

READ:

1) If the match is highly inconvenient to watch (eg. recorded by a cell phone or by a very jerky cameraman), there may not be anyone who will want to critique for you. Personally, I tend to skip over videos that are recorded with a handheld video camera. At least set it on a table or something so it's steady.

2) Don't post more than 3 videos. Pick 3 or less, and let us select which ones to look at.

3) If you have just been critiqued, don't post another video for critique for a few days unless the critique you got was incredibly short. In that case, you can ask for another one.

Thus, your posts should be:
You can comment back to a critique too or clarify things. It's not just a strict POST-REVIEW rinse-and-repeat thing. Discussion is always good.

Post away.
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFdfJuOkMeA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vewBnxX3Uo&feature=channel_page
(For the record I didn't suicide at the end just messed up)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnDNmG4X9ZE&feature=channel_page

I would like a general overview with some sauce on top. Use the good kind tho none of that cheap 1$ sauce. Thanks.
This is a bit closer to comprehensive actually. You don't have a completely nub ROB, so it's harder to do a general. This has... general tso's sauce on it.

Pika match, based mostly on first video.

Don't use side-B as much as you do. A few times is okay to let pika know what you can do, but side-B only has reflector properties at a certain time and place. You know it, I can tell, but you seemed to really enjoy using it anyway. Pika can capitalize on your side-B lag if you keep using it, especially if you mistime it and it doesn't reflect. Even if you do reflect it, another thundershock cancels the reflected one. If it hits him, you get... 3% damage? and your side-B's let him land his kill move at the last stock. High risk, little gain. I know you know it's not that great. I bet you don't use it as much in the 2nd pika match.

I can see you thinking. A thinking ROB. You try to read your opponent, that's good.

Leave the gyro on stage. If you have it in your hand, you can glide toss in any direction. Down is a good thing in this matchup because it stays on stage. At 30 seconds, a down glidetoss would have hit him too. Glide toss forward isn't usually good at close range.

Very nice use of nair to intercept recovery.

Don't try to reflect Thunder. It's very hard to do and you have to space perfectly. It's hard to do even when you have a pika friend spam thunder just for you to practice.

Be wary of the thunder. When you get sent straight up, thunder is a reflex for pikas. They may try to read your direction and SH thunder too.

Good DI on the dsmashes. Good job intercepting his UpB recovery.

Learn to powershield thundershock. It's tons more reliable than side-B. You can fair it sometimes (and I see you do, but you still don't PS them much). Important: think about where and where thundershocks are when you start charging your projectiles. Thundershock tends to interrupt ROBs' laser/gyro shootings when they aren't used to pika's tshock spam.

-----
D3 Match

Very nice use of ftilt to space. You use fsmash as a keepaway move here. That's commendable usage. Very nice hyphen smashes.

Don't glide toss forward into a D3 ever. It's easily shieldgrabbed. You never want to get grabbed, period.

I can see the D3 making mistakes a bit with his CG'ing. You actually landed an fsmash on him once out of his CG. Jab comes out faster, obviously. I was surprised at that fsmash. =D

When D3 is on a platform, SH and bair usually pokes and hits.

Ledgeguard D3. You can stand and react to his moves. D3's most dangerous aerial, bair, can't come out when he's facing you and hanging on the ledge.
- Ledgeattack = shieldgrab.
- Ledgehop fair = shieldgrab / dtilt / ftilt
- Ledgehop Waddledee = PS.
- Ledgehop nair = won't hit you.
- Tap away jump bair = won't hit you.
- Ledgehop AD = shield drop dsmash or grab.
- Ledgejump dair = safe, but if you expect it, you can utilt/uair before he can get it out. It's generally safe because you'll need time to shield drop, and in that time he'll dair you, and dair has insane range.

When you recover and you're in your UpB and trying to land with an nair, AFTER you input nair, use UpB again and try to space yourself so that the initial/final hitbox just hits D3. The final hitbox, especially, has very good range and allows you to retreat (with a retreating fair) if it doesn't hit. It also makes it very hard to counterattack.

You try to hit D3 with a ledgehopped recovering fair a lot. Don't. That's shieldgrab fodder. You actually got hit by fsmash at your 2nd to last stock for this. Fair has too little range against D3. You wouldn't normally approach D3 with a SHFair would you? It's even worse here because he can predict it. D3 can shield and either grab or ftilt based on how you spaced your fair. If he's not close to you, like in the fsmash case, trying to space an nair hitbox generally keeps you safe.
 

JCaesar

Smash Hero
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
9,657
Location
Project MD
NNID
JCaesar
Maaaaaad props to Shockdrake for this.

Listen to this man, he knows his stuff.
 

Bonehimer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
412
Location
Texas
Oh god, thanks Shockdrake so much knowledge from such simple vids. thanks
 

jjvirus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
2,188
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
Since wifi is a piece of delayed ****, does that mean we can't get an actual critique on wifi matches if we post them? I don't think I'll be getting any offline vids anytime soon and I want feedback T_T
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
You're awesome Shockdrake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0VvKmqVIF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MISXW2IuecQ&feature=related

Looking for every bit of help I can get in the MK matchup. So just a little matchup specific advice. And I suppose if you see any general glaring faults I wouldn't mind those pointed out too. Thanks!
Once again, this is a bit longer than "general" is supposed to be...

Sorry for the lack of formatting here. I'm just C&P'ing what I write in Notepad.

--
Land with nair so that it autocancels when you're trying to recover. I forget which vid it was in, but you were landing with nothing or fair. Nair's hitbox keeps you safest.

Don't chase an mk off stage unless you're confident with timing a bair/nair. He has many more options than you do. I only saw you do it once, I think. You probably know this pretty well actually, since... I never see you chasing at all anymore. That's good. Nair does have strong killing potential if you can hit him in the air with it. MK can't really do much against a perfectly spaced nair if he's trying to recover. Note that this only applies if he's not recovering low. If he's low, he can just UpB once nair ends.

Nair hits through the tornado if you hit his body. The last part of nair does this best. You did it once. Good job.

Tilt your shield up for tornado shielding. Not sure I saw you doing that. It only helps a little either way though.

If he hits your shield with a dsmash, dtilt him. If it trips, you get a good advantage.

DI away from the dthrow. If you don't DI or you DI up, MK shuttle loops you. Truthfully, MK has options for any DI you choose out of a dthrow (which is why he always uses it), but DI'ing away is safer in general. You don't eat a shuttle loop, which can kill you, and his best approach is an fair, which only does 7% damage or so. You can also retreat an fair.

If he spaces an fair and you shield it, only ftilt will hit him OOS. I saw you try for a shieldgrab.

Do NOT go hug when you're feeling pressured. You did this twice within 10 seconds in one of the vids. MK has very good ledgeguarding. Better than Marth, who covers almost all of ROB's options already.

Against a good ledgeguarding MK, you will have a tough time. He can cover every one of your ledge options easily. If you fight a good Marth, the same thing happens, but a ledgejump is harder to punish. An MK can easily spam uair after dropping his shield. With this in mind, try to recover from above with smart airdodges and spaced Nairs (triggering UpB again right after nair'ing to control spacing). It's like Snake trying to recover from your Airdodge-bait-uair-juggle. Now it's your turn to be in the air. This applies to Marth battles too btw. Read the DISCLAIMER for this under "Important" below.

Spotdodge the end of the nado to avoid the final poke if he's just sitting on top of you.

Very nice fsmash'ing his nado at 3:35 (2nd vid).

Very nice z-drop at 3:55 (2nd vid).

Platform stages really help you KO with usmash. Counterpicks with platforms help you more than they help him. He may rack a bit more damage and combo better, but you may get to kill much much earlier.

When you try to recover and you're underneath stage level, go low and then come directly up with a good uair. Do NOT come in at a 45 degree angle. MK can repeat dair you and possibly KO you off the side with fair afterwards. Try to get directly under him and uair. Uair kills anything of his from directly below. If he's diagonal to you, his dair will hit and your uair won't.

If he grabs the ledge as you try to come up, UpB as fast as you can past him and get back on stage, trying to land ASAP. His invincibility and fast aerials will knock you back off if you try to hover around and wait out his invincibility or hit him in general. Getting knocked back out after coming up from below = bye bye fuel = hello gimp. MK gimps ROB very well.

Nair is your most likely to hit attack, but MKs WILL try to bait it and then shuttle loop you or aerial you. Remember what I said before about recovering high against a good ledgeguarder MK? With you up high, a good MK will now play the bait game. Your best chance for safety is nair, but when you use it is up to you and how you read the MK (and how he reads you). You stand more of a chance here than on the ledge though.

IMPORTANT: Many MK/Marths, despite their amazing ledgeguarding games, will not ledgeguard you that well. They do that at the highest levels of play. If you think that your MK opponent won't ledgeguard you to death and you think you have a better chance on the ledge, recover by ledge! My talk about good ledgeguarding MK's only applies if the MK actually knows how to ledgeguard well. Take advantage of what you can whenever you can.

when you need the kill, keep your gyro fully charged.

Good capitalizing on bad UpB's with your usmash.

A grab > groundbreak at 2:29 (first vid) leads to a guaranteed fsmash. Grabbing and ground-releasing in front of a gyro is one of the best scenarios for ROB. He can do ANYTHING he wants except usmash (depends on the character's height) while the opponent gets hit by the gyro.

Lol at backwards hitting fair at 2:47 1st vid.

At 3:30 or so first vid, you need that kill. Keep that gyro fully charged. If you get a grab, grab attack the heck out of him. Refresh your nair because you need that option as a kill even more than you need your gyro.

You stand at a good distance when 'ledgeguarding' MK. about 1/4 FD. This lets you usmash a bad glide, avoid an UpB from the lip (this MK option especially hurts in Smashville), etc.

I'm told not to DI at all for the nado and just let it pop you up and then AD down. This kind of makes sense. If you Smash DI, you move a set distance. Therefore, if you smash DI the last hit, you move that set distance and drop again into another hitbox, and you don't get popped up. I don't know for sure though.

When MK is in the air (above stage) and you're on stage with a gyro, Don't glidetoss forward. Glidetoss down. It leaves the gyro on stage for interruption. You can also just hold it and wait for a possible opening, but if Mk is in the air, he's probably approaching you that way, so you won't get that chance. Glidetoss down or Retreating-hop-zdrop instead.

Just as a small thing, if the MK is stupid enough to directly glide toward you from far away to try and glide attack and you have the gyro in your hand, if you have space on stage, glidetoss down toward him to get closer and usmash him out of his glide.

Grab attack when you can. Every % counts. Always get 2 'knees' in unless he's < 3%, in which case you hit him once and then throw or release. Refreshed moves are more important here than in any other matchup.

-----
I'm not sure if anyone does this (I don't see any top ROBs doing it in most vids), but if you Grab groundbreak release and dtilt until he trips, you can play a small techchasing game similar to Snake's dthrow. After dtilting for the trip, move forward a bit so that you are still outside of his getup attack. Then,

1) getup attack = dash grab and reset situation.
2) normal getup = dash grab or dtilt and reset situation.
3) rolls behind you = turn and grab and reset situation.
4) rolls away = safe unless you predict it and chase. You have to predict it, because human reaction is too slow. You can still laser though.

Therefore, standing still at just outside getup attack range covers 3 of his 4 options. You have a good chance to continue the whole little game. Only his rolling away gets him out of it, and you can predict that.

Now, the good part. When I said to keep the gyro fully charged, I said it with this in mind. If he rolls behind you, then you can turn around and grab, but everything else he does leaves his position in gyro range. Fully charged gyro comes out fast. If you just wait for him to move and ascertain that he didn't roll behind you, you can let the gyro loose for a potential kill.

I'm not sure if this works on MK, and I'm not sure if you can guarantee a dtilt hit after a grab groundbreak release on anyone, actually. I asked Levitas for some grab groundbreak release data, and he said he'd have it out tonight. I am sure, however, that if the first hit doesn't trip, he can DI out of the second if he's ready.

----
EDIT: And so it's settled. They can powershield the dtilt if they hold shield. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work, because you can dashgrab shields. After one dtilt session, you might try going for a straight dashgrab. If it's too risky to play the game, you can just throw him at any time though.

If you need a kill, and you've got a fully charged gyro, and you get a trip in any way, try that gyro business. You need good reaction though.
 

Mr.E

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
1,520
Location
Lima, Ohio
Regarding grab release stuff:

Assuming the things from some of the past topics I've read were correct, both the grabber and grabee recover from a grab release (GROUND) in 30 frames. Exceptions include...


[*] Bowser, as the grabber, recovers in 20 frames from a grab release. This is why he has such a good grab-release game, he's the only character that actually gets a frame advantage coming out of one.

[*] DK, as the victim, recovers in 20 frames. This is why Bowser's tricks don't work on ONLY him. :p (It also means don't grab-release DK with anyone else or he gets a free DTilt.)

[*] Ness and Lucas, as victims, recover in 40 frames. This is why they are susceptible to a couple of grab-release infinites (or near-infinites), as they're the only one with a frame disadvantage from a ground release. For ROB, they're the only ones a release-dtilt-repeat chain would work on and I think Lucas can DI/drift back far enough to avoid it anyway.

Everyone else can always shield a DTilt from a grab release but it's usually spaced such that you still can't be punished for trying, so feel free. But most people would instinctively hold Shield down during a ground release anyway and ROB has good throws. I'd just throw them. ;/

As far as jump releasing is concerned, IIRC the victim takes a whopping 50 frames to recover. This is why Wario gets hurt so greatly by them, because he air releases so close to the grabber that they're always within range to follow-up, and why characters who can force air releases get free hits on many characters. I don't believe ROB forces anyone to air release from a grab, though you can USmash Wario for free if you let him struggle and jump break out.
 

Ruse

Fox
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
1,447
Location
Pensacola, FL
Gonna upload some vids of something besides R.O.B. dittos next monthish.

R.O.B. dittos aren't the best thing to rate someone on, but they're so d*** fun.

Edit: STICKY THIS S***.
 

Sudai

Stuff here
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Shock, since you asked me to check over it, groundbreak data has been known for a while. In general groundbreaks happen in 20 frames(except in the case of Ness/Lucas (30) and Jigglypuff (19) for the grabber and the grabee while the DTilt comes out in 3 Frames. Shields come out in 4 frames but powershield anything that touches within the shield 3 frames before and after it's full out (meaning frame 2 through 7). So a DTilt out of grab release will always get powershielded. Granted, this is based on somewhat old data so I'm not entirely sure if it's all accurate. It's been my experience that DTilt out of grab release doesn't work unless it's on either Ness or Lucas. Grab release isn't bad though as you can still mix it up between DTilt, Grab Release, and Spot dodge punishing options. Generally go DTilt first time, then they know so they just shield and you dashgrab the second time, then they're like "Well, gotta get out of there" or "Well, gotta spotdodge" and in either case you can just DTilt as they break out because they're either spotdodge and you can DTilt them out of that or they'll try to jump/dash/roll away and the DTilt should hit them out of all those options. Beware of people with fast options like MK and GnW though, I've had both turn the situation around on me. x.x
 

Talps

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
18
My roommate did a spot dodge -> roll for no damage to me today. Be prepared for a dsmash if they roll behind, then I guess?
 

jjvirus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
2,188
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
I never got a reply before so I'll ask again.....are we allowed to post wifi vids? I jsut recently got my dazzle to work on another computer but I don't have any offline vids and was wondering if I could record wifi games to be critiqued. If the answer is no, I can understand that because wifi sucks so no hard feelings ^_^
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Okay, when I said tonight yesterday, I was talking about today's tonight.

Still doing Matlab. Test is in a few hours. >.<

--
EDIT: And jj, wifi is fine. Just make a note of it.
 

Haunted

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
32
Location
New York
Wifi is teh gay.

I have some vids, I'll upload them eventually.

This is uber cool, shockdrake.
CJT... as in the Hero of Time?! You're almost as famous as Rope!

Anyway, I've already taken the liberty of uploading one of your tournament matches against TOCK. Please take note, that the match took place on December 19th, 2008, so I'm quite sure that it leaves room for changes in play style.

If you'd like to view this match, please do so here.

At this moment, it seems to me as CJTHeroofTime is the best candidate for the northeast region, in terms of owning with Robotic Operating Buddy (synonymous to R.O.B.).
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Since you asked... I'd appreciate you tearing this apart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnmTEfwUGI

Especially things specific to the lucario matchup. The two of us play all the time... and he wins most the time, so I need to step my game up.
** Before I start, I'd advise you to take a look at the AMAZING way the ROB in this video deals with Lucario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OVbjBrdUfg

----

You played a very SH-back-and-projectile game at the beginning. This doesn't work well against any smart person if it's spammed so that they know to ready their shield and react to your head motions and gyro motions. All you can do in a SH is retreating fair/bair, but if you projectile, you're wide open because you can't even do that. SHing projectiles is for midrange games (he can't run and punish, and you keep your distance) or for fakeouts (run in and SH-back-projectile). Looking at your game around 1:04, that was midrange. You know this though, I'm pretty sure. The first 10 seconds was probably due to the Lucario's godly roll ==> him getting into your face unexpectedly. That's understandable.

Retreating fairs against an airborne Lucario.

Know when your attacks will connect. Lucario's fsmash has insane range and can be spammed as a spacing tool. Your ftilt does not outrange it. I saw a lot of times where you just ftilted from way out of range. You missed, obviously, because you were way out of range. But when you ftilt, you extend your hurtbox out, so the lucario's fsmash spacing hit you (it wouldn't have if you just stood there). Examples at 1:20 and 2:47 (your first 2 deaths). Only use ftilt when you SEE them in range as a reactionary get-of-my-face tool that's hard to punish even out of shield if spaced well. Ftilt comes out too fast to use as a prediction punishing tool.

No Roboburner at 2:30? Waste of fuel?

When you respawn, Lucarios like to roll alot because their roll is so good. This Lucario likes to roll alot too. Your respawn strategy right now seems to be to just try to hit him and hope it connects. This Lucario will probably not jump. Right now, I see you falling toward him from your respawn and spamming attacks. Next time you play him, and you respawn, try FF'ing to the ground, walking up to him reverse grabbing or using an attack in the other direction if you see the roll coming. You can play around with variations of covering his roll. Run up to him and SH back when you get close. FF a bair if he rolls, fair if he doesn't and tries to jump over you. Laser if he jumped backwards. If he hugged, you can ledgeguard him by standing outside of his ledgeattack range and reacting to his moves (you can walk away and fsmash if he tries to ledgehop a fair at you, for example), or you can try the dtilt spam on the ledge while you have invincibility. Grounded options tend to be better for ROB when approaching from a respawn, mostly because he can't attack quickly behind him when in the air. You can try to run up and dash cancel with your shield and fsmash in the other direction. If he rolls slightly early, pivot grab him as his roll finishes and you pass by. If the reverse punish works too much, start running up, dash canceling with shield, and if you see no roll, jab. If the jab connects, you can jab combo or jab>jab-canceled dtilt>grab/dash attack or whatever fits. If he starts to jump now, you can run in and, when he jumps, jump with him and act accordingly. This idea works when ledgeguarding too, incidentally. If he does any ledgehop or getup, deal with it on the ground, but the moment he ledgejumps, jump with him so that you stay horizontal and can abuse your fair.

You can even fall from your respawn toward him, and then charge a reverse gyro as you land half a roll away from him. When people see a gyro and can't interrupt you (due to distance or invincibility), they do not roll backwards (you'll shoot and they'll get hit). They shield or spot dodge. Jumping has vulnerability, so unless they're far or are pretty sure you're just planning to charge it to full, they won't jump either. With shield and spot dodge, you can play games with when you're going to shoot it. If you see a dodge, you can shoot and hope it hits. If it doesn't, you can still usually get a free ftilt. If you see a shield, you might as well wait, because he won't hold it forever.

When recovering to stage with nair in UpB mode, you always just nair. Just nairing makes you fall fast and you're kind of in the mindset that you hope you'll hit him... and maybe you will, but you're content to leave it to chance. But he might just shield, and when you land, you'll get shieldgrabbed. In the air, if you nair, you just fall and hope you hit him and not vice versa. Hover your nairs (nair + UpB to hover with the attack) and space them when you're slowed down. You won't fall into any of their attacks if you try to hit with the last hitbox in front of you and you can't get shieldgrabbed if you do it on the ground. The last hitbox in front of you has really good range and is disjointed. After that, you can try to UpB, begin the nair and move back so you can land with no lag (with the nair hitbox as protection), or do a retreating fair, or continue your UpB if you want. Anything here is better than hitting his shield and getting shield grabbed or just hoping you win in the air.

You can even hover an fair out of an UpB and space it pretty well. Fair > press UpB again and control where you hit. Because fair has an extended time hitbox, opponents can run into it as you fall back.

At 2:33, you nair'd probably because you hoped Lucario would chase and land in the hitbox. If he's standing ready and you're above trying to recover, cancel that UpB with an fair first so you can airdodge, along with all your aerial options, according to the situation.

Don't always getupattack or getuproll. You can do ledgehopped attacks/projectiles/sideB? or even tap off the ledge and 2nd jump + UpB to the other side with bairs to protect you if you think it'll work. You do want to avoid things that he can cover by just SH dair'ing, though. I suppose that's why you getuproll so much? If the dair is a problem, try tapping away from the edge. Lucario may SH dair or chase you with fair. You can use your 2nd jump then to space an fair through and try to recover to the stage after that.

If you recover below a Lucario, and he jumps out to you, try to hover and bait the dair so that you can immediately uair and hit him before he can do it again. I believe their dairs can hit you out of your uair (it looks that way?) and most lucarios tend to dair a bit before your body would get in range, hoping to hit you with the 2nd hit. Bait the dair, spring out the uair. It's really hard coming up below a Lucario in general though. You have very few options. If you have no chance of grabbing the ledge, it's more like "wait for the dair to pop you up so you can recover high." If you save your 2nd jump, you can cancel your UpB and use it as a surprise to recover. You could also try recovering by going under the stage.

Fastfall your bairs. Get back on the ground faster. I saw some non FF'ed bairs I think. Not sure if that's what's normal for you.

After a double dair, can you utilt him OOS before he lands?

Don't dthrow/uthrow a Lucario. You don't have a very reliable combo ability on him due to his dair. Bthrow/fthrow > laser is more reliable.
 

CJTHeroofTime

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
1,542
Location
Albany, NY
CJT... as in the Hero of Time?! You're almost as famous as Rope!

Anyway, I've already taken the liberty of uploading one of your tournament matches against TOCK. Please take note, that the match took place on December 19th, 2008, so I'm quite sure that it leaves room for changes in play style.

If you'd like to view this match, please do so here.

At this moment, it seems to me as CJTHeroofTime is the best candidate for the northeast region, in terms of owning with Robotic Operating Buddy (synonymous to R.O.B.).
Why do you stalk me...?

Aaaaanyway, don't waste your time on that vid. That was when I really sucked... Apparently before I learned how to tilt? Plus its hand-held footage. Dont waste your time with that stuff...
Edit: Dammit! I have NEVER been Rick Roll'd before...
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Aw man, I forgot this thread existed, deleted the replays to make room the other day =(

One vid that managed to avoid deletion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wQo8OS1qss&fmt=18

A detailed critique would be very awesome, please and thank you
I'll edit this post with your critique tonight. Late tonight. I believe I'll be smashing until the wee hours of the morning tonight..
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Aw man, I forgot this thread existed, deleted the replays to make room the other day =(

One vid that managed to avoid deletion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wQo8OS1qss&fmt=18

A detailed critique would be very awesome, please and thank you
It was a bad game for snake at the beginning. He jumped or attacked into your standing shield a lot. Good punishment.

When you throw, you never punch! A really good struggler below 5% will get out after 1 punch, but above around 10%, 2 punches is guaranteed. You refresh your moves and don't lose anything. Above 100% or so, you might as well punch 4 times, since he won't get out, and you need move refreshing more anyway.

You play a heavily standing-still game. It's not always bad, but there are a lot of times when, instead of taking hits on your shield, you could just walk back and ftilt them out of their attack lag. Standing still is pretty hard against Snake too, due to his ftilt game. Snake likes to have you right in front of him, because of the godly jab canceled ftilt or even jab canceled utilt. Both usually knock you out of shield grab range too. Of course, you can ftilt, but you tend to grab, which leaves you open and gets you ftilted.

You played a very calculated ROB, capitalizing on his mistakes in this game. It was a bit too motionless though. If you don't move and just react, you can cover many options, but with a bit more movement (walking out of hitboxes, walking past them when applicable, etc.) you keep them from realizing that you're just reacting to what they do.


0:16
You bthrew him right then and he went offstage to slightly below stage height. People ALWAYS use their second jump when they're knocked slightly offstage like that. You predicted it and did an fair, but it traded hits with his uair. If he had bair'ed (not sure why he uair'ed), he would have hit you. A better choice would have been to just walk slowly away, and either hyphen smash his second jump or grab him in his landing lag.

0:27
Snake juggle opportunity. Went for the gyro? Lol.

1:00
You shield-canceled reverse grabbed. Do you pivot grab? Pivot grab has insane range and is amazing against characters that like to air dodge to the ground (like Snake). Even if you miss the grab (rarely), you end up behind them, and you can jab/dtilt. If they roll behind you, you can dashgrab back. If they roll away you can't do anything though..

If Snake starts predicting your pivot grab, he'll bair and bellyflop to the ground. You can just shieldgrab if you think he'll do his.

2:10
The Snake dairs a lot... almost the worst thing to do against a ROB with an utilt.

2:50
Even a semi-badly spaced ftilt from Snake can't be dashgrabbed OOS well. His jab almost always comes out first.

3:20
Nice DI.

3:40
Never try to land into a Snake's mortar 'trap'. You're so big that you almost always get hit by either the mortar, the ftilt, or the utilt. Ftilt is almost guaranteed to work because it has two fast hits and you will always airdodge land, meaning you're vulnerable the moment you hit the ground, but they usually go for utilt for the kill. Just don't land in there period. You were probably trying to crossover air dodge to his other side. It almost never works. If you do get past the utilt (assuming he doesn't wait and ftilt), he usually has time to either put up a shield or utilt again. If you get anything, the mortar falls and interrupts. Avoid the mortar trap.

3:49
You do the dash > shield > grab-if-you-can thing a lot. If he starts reading that, you'll get grabbed out of your shield a lot soon. ROB has nothing he can do out of a dash besides that and dash attack, so when he sees you dash, he might as well just grab. Snakes tend to ftilt or jab out of instinct though. If he does start reading this, dash > shield cancel further away from him out of his grab range > ftilt. If he tries to read that and walks forward and ftilts, after your shield cancel, you can just walk back and ftilt him back.

4:06
Snake was being dumb here, lol. Good game.
 

Wolydarg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
244
Location
Cypress, CA
When you throw, you never punch!
The snake mashes buttons mad fast, I've seen him do the instant-grab-break before, so I always try to throw him asap. But in general, I usually hold them until I hear them start mashing on their controller, as they usually screw up their DI horribly if they do that, but I guess I should definitely pummel.

Of course, you can ftilt, but you tend to grab, which leaves you open and gets you ftilted.
Does ftilt come out faster than shield grab? I think I just assume he doesn't have that much lag, I'll try ftilting more and grabbing less.

0:27
Snake juggle opportunity. Went for the gyro? Lol.
I was in my GTFO/CAMPY mindset already then, totally focused on keeping him away, which is why I ran away for the next 20 seconds >_>
I got no johns, just hate trying to juggle a snake only to eat a bair

1:00
Do you pivot grab?
Yeah, I got no johns for that, either. I just suck at pivot grabbing, always end up just dash attacking the wrong direction or something noob like that, will definitely try to consciously implement it though. Picking up IC's as a secondary is definitely helping my grabbing game though.

2:50
Even a semi-badly spaced ftilt from Snake can't be dashgrabbed OOS well. His jab almost always comes out first.
Ooh, will definitely keep that in mind, guess I was still in the punish-everything mentality

3:40
Never try to land into a Snake's mortar 'trap'.
This is going to sound noob but in all seriousness I never knew about the trap :p


3:49
You do the dash > shield > grab-if-you-can thing a lot.
Man, you're picking up on things I never would've thought of lol.
I try to do stay in his face more because he always ftilts whenever I'm in range. Always. It's definitely his favorite move. I know there's never a need for me to approach, but I feel like if I give him room I give him momentum and therefore give him an advantage. But yeah, message received, stop being predictable.

Many many thanks for taking the time to do this, dude. It's definitely going to help me improve. Next time you're at the bridgewater mall when I'm back home I'll buy ya a burrito from Chipotle's xD
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
Does ftilt come out faster than shield grab? I think I just assume he doesn't have that much lag, I'll try ftilting more and grabbing less.
I'm talking about when his ftilt pushes you out of shieldgrab range. Sometimes you go for the grab anyway.

... pivot grabbing, always end up just dash attacking the wrong direction.
Z + back at the same time?

--
Lol at Chipotle's. =D
 

JCaesar

Smash Hero
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
9,657
Location
Project MD
NNID
JCaesar
If a Snake ftilts my shield, I like to shielddrop and jab. Faster than ftilt (and a better setup move) and more range than grab.
 

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
I'll look at them tomorrow.

And yeah, whenever I feel like critiquing, I end up writing down everything I see... >.<

--------

I typed it out, forgot to save it and exited notepad. I'll do it again later.
 

Darth Waffles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
1,036
Location
Orefield, PA
heh, I just played him yesterday and that's pretty much exactly how my games went too. That Z-air is SO annoying. We also had some epic Mario vs Luigi fights =)
 
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