The 'Revamp A Veteran' Thread! This Week: Discussing YOSHI (new rules inside)

[Diddy Kong]

Since am bound to update the thread in about.. 24 hours or so, here's the current votes yet again.


:4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

I generally also think that Samus has got a good toolkit, but can use some buffs along the way. More explosive power on her Missiles, less end lag on projectiles, killer Screw Attack, and yes indeed more mobility could go quite a long way.

It's VERY disturbing to see Zero Suit Samus outpreform her canonical superiour self in such a way. She even boasts more KO power ever since Smash 4.

Just hoping she becomes far more free in her shooting / zoning properties. I think they should look at certain moves of Mii Gunner and Mega Man, but she definitely needs to keep some physical moves as well. It could all use a little more flair, some more flashiness and a few more non Special attack projectiles.

Hope we can get more votes, otherwise I'll keep the option between Dark Pit and Kirby open for another 24 hours.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I just thought of an idea from the image below.

What if Samus could stick to walls? What if she entered morph ball animation when next to a wall and used the spider ball?

Great idea. Especially if the game has an Adventure Mode like Brawl

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I just thought of an idea from the image below.

What if Samus could stick to walls? What if she entered morph ball animation when next to a wall and used the spider ball?

That would be a pretty great recovery, but she does already have a tether (or did Sm4sh **** on those?). Then again, most stages don't have walled ledges (although how cool would it be for her to be able to stick to the bottom of the stage...).

Nominate kirby.

 

[Crystanium]

That would be a pretty great recovery, but she does already have a tether (or did Sm4sh **** on those?). Then again, most stages don't have walled ledges (although how cool would it be for her to be able to stick to the bottom of the stage...).

Nominate kirby.

Samus' tether is fine. I just thought it'd be a neat addition.

 

[Diddy Kong]

With the one Kirby nomination, the current character of the week is now Kirby.

Post your ideas of revamping our favorite intergalactic Star Warrior!

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm not an expert on Kirby, but from what I understand, in almost all of his appearances, he has infinite jumps, with the caveat that his only attack while flying is shooting a star. With the exception of stalling for time, I don't think this would cause any major problems for gameplay.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm not an expert on Kirby, but from what I understand, in almost all of his appearances, he has infinite jumps, with the caveat that his only attack while flying is shooting a star. With the exception of stalling for time, I don't think this would cause any major problems for gameplay.

This seems quite fitting for a new Neutral Air now that you mentoin this... Or even a Forward Air attack! Cause that attack was always quite useless anyway.

What I MOSTLY want to happen is that his Inhale ability gets buffed and more multifunctional. Kirby should be able to spit out items just like enemy fighters or should be able to heal himself while eating stuff. He should, for example, be able to eat Yoshi's Eggs, Samus's Bombs and Missiles, Diddy's Banana Peels, Wario's Bike, Villager's stuff, and anything else that's similar.

This would give the Inhale ability some uses and opens for more possibilities while using Kirby.

I also think his Hammer is quite a useless attack as it functions right now.. Even if it's one of Kirby's main attacks with good KO power.

Further more.. Range, speed and strenght buffs would fix a lot for Kirby. He's Sakurai's baby anyway, it'll be easy for him to create Kirby just like in his source games. Smash and the Kirby franchises are quite similar in a lot of ways as well.

 

[T-Donor66]

Literally all they need to do to make Kirby good is to up his movement speed in the air. It is so damn slow and makes approaching in the air extremely difficult and predictable. He could also use less lag from his specials, but air speed is his biggest issue.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Kirby, huh?........ Well, I don't really have any fundamental issues with his current moveset, honestly.

But he definitely needs buffs. He is just so, so bad right now. (Which is surprising, given the fact he's Sakurai's son). While the intensity of his weaknesses certiantly varied between games, it was still the same basic stuff that brought him down every time (except for in Smash 64, of course; he was great there); he had great options, but he just wasn't fast enough to make good use of them. So, he really dosen't need very much to become a good character. So here's some balance changes I came up with a while back.


General

• Kirby has his Brawl voice clips again for a majority of his moves, and his “Hiiiii!” taunt.
  
  
• Kirby has better air speed (0.8 → 0.9). I formerly gave him air speed close to Jigglypuff, but I realized (well, actually, I read some other posts on the thread) that that actually kinda conflicts with how he plays in Kirby games. I still think he needs a tiny improvement at least, so I still boosted it a little bit.

• Kirby has faster walking speed (0.93 → 1). This, I just now realized, would probably be a bit more impactful than an air speed boost, because his tilts are arguably some of the best aspects of him, and now he can use them a bit more freely.
  
  
• Some of his attacks have slightly more range, because he is a little larger now. (Nothing big, just his Brawl height)

Ground Attacks

• All three of his tilts, dash attack's final hit, and the first two hits of his jab combo have larger hitboxes.

• Dash attack has slightly less startup (Frame 12 → 10).
  
  
• Kirby’s up smash is faster (Frame 14 → 7). This may seem OP, but Fox’s up smash, which is much stronger and has better range, is Frame 8.

Air Attacks

• Kirby’s n-air has no landing lag, like in Brawl; this gives it utility as an air to ground transition and a setup into his tilt attacks, giving the move some actual use now.

• Diddy Kong was actually the one who suggested this; Kirby now has his Smash 64 forward air. It's a more reliable combo tool, hits 7 times rather than 3, deals more damage when all hits connect (12% → 18%) and has a landing hitbox that deals 3% damage.
  
  
• Back and up aerials have larger hitboxes. Back and up air have less landing lag as well (9 frames each, rather than back air having 17 frames and up air having 12 frames)
  
  
• Down air deals more damage on the looping hits (1% → 2%)

Grab/throws

• Standing and dash grabs have increased range.
  
  
• Kirby’s down throw has a different angle (63 → 90) and more damage (10.2% → 12%) and altered knockback (60 (base)/180 (growth) → 40/140), making it just like his Brawl down throw, because that was a good combo move and his current down throw is pretty much useless.

Special moves

• Kirby’s Inhale can now suck up projectiles like Wario’s Chomp. I’ve seen this suggested often, and I fully agree. I don’t know why Wario was given this feature before Kirbeh. Seeing as how Kirby is basically, well, Sakurai’s son, I’m baffled as to how he gave this critical feature to Wario and completely forgot about Kirby, who, well, loves to eat stuff, all day every day.
  
  
• The shockwave produced by Final Cutter now has double the range. More interestingly, it can be angled to the side like in the Kirby game's and Project M, (known as the “Cutter Dash”, it is a single horizontal slash that can be cancelled into another aerial at the end) and this applies to the custom variations as well. Always found this to be a perfectly natural change that should have been in from the beginning.
  
  
• Kirby’s Final Smash now has Kirby and the opponent pause in place after each hit briefly before continuing with the next.

So essentially, this can be summed up as a buffed Brawl Kirby because damn, he's fun in that game.

Also, my friend came up with an Alph/Koopalings styled alt for him. Say hello to..... Shadow Kirby.

You know...... This guy:

EDIT: I rethought my changes to his mobility. Also, I realized I forgot to put these changes in a spoiler box like I did for the other characters we've discussed so far. Ah well, too lazy to fix.

 

[Luminario]

Someone mentioned ages back in the official thread about how Hammer should be replaced with Kirby's old Burning dash attack and I still think that's a pretty cool idea. Copying Dedede then lets him use Hammer again.
I'm not fond of how pretty much all of Kirby's attacks are mostly basic kicks, but I suppose it makes sense due to him being able to copy every single B move in the game which means like 50+ more animations and balancing. I'd like to see a few more flashy moves from the Kirby games though, like the Ice midair spin, or the Ninja flower veil attack.

I nominate again~

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Kirby is probably the most difficult character to balance and deal with in the game. When we were talking about Samus I suggested a radical change. But in Kirby the change would be even more complicated: To be able to copy ALL the Special moves of the opponents, including the Up Special. The reason is simply because what is most striking and fun in Kirby is precisely his ability to copy the skills of his enemies. But in Smash Bros. it is not very well used. This is because Neutral Special does not radically alter Kirby's moves base. And sometimes it's not even a good change or choice. Therefore, to make this ability more useful, versatile, and consequently more used, I think this change would be interesting.

^ I hope the translation is good enough

I nominate: Jigglypuff

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting that people are saying Kirby should have more air speed as that is actually a characteristic of his games: he can float forever but at the cost of air mobility. In general it sounds like some of you aren't familiar with his games...but I recommend playing them.

I do like the suggestion of T ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho that Kirby's inhale copies all special moves....sure it would be a lot more work but would be really fun and more true to Kirby's character.

If not that, I'd like to see Kirby use more of his game's copy abilities, in addition to the ones already referenced (notably Cutter, Stone, Hammer, Fighter, Yo-yo). The easiest solution? I feel like a broken record, but the answer is Custom Moves. If they had done it right, Kirby should have been alongside Palutena and the Mii Fighters with unique custom moves as it would be so easy. They did give him Ice Breath....so 10 points to Gryffindor for that.
But...here are some other ideas they could have done off the top of my head:


Fire (Breath) -- similar to Ice Breath, though technically he already gets this move when he copies Bowser/Charizard
Parasol -- similar to Peach's recovery
Cutter -- the cutter boomerang as a side or neutral special
Burning -- bring this back as a side special!
Beam -- an iconic Kirby ability; makes sense as a charging neutral special
Wing -- I'm thinking an up special move similar to Meta Knight's
Sword -- speaking of Meta Knight, this could work for any special really
Wheel -- this would be a cool side or neutral special similar to Rollout
Yo-yo -- actually, this might better be incorporated into Kirby's down smash, but it'd basically be like Ness's which might seem lazy
Bomb -- could work as almost any special
Clean -- I'd love to see Kirby pull out a broom as a down tilt lol
etc. etc.

Finally, I'd love for the Final Cutter to actually be more accurate to its origins in Kirby's games. For those that don't know, you can't actually use the so-called Final Cutter unless you are in melee range of an enemy. Instead of throwing the Cutter boomerang, Kirby will slash several times with the cutter like a sword then end with the jump and slam. So....it would be cool if, when you executed Final Cutter in Smash right next to an opponent, Kirby does a few quick slashes first as a sort of combo. Also get rid of the weird sword hilt for the Cutter blade; it never has that in the games. :/ Also the Final Cutter should be a lot faster like it is in the games.

 

[Dig Dug]

Interesting that people are saying Kirby should have more air speed as that is actually a characteristic of his games: he can float forever but at the cost of air mobility. In general it sounds like some of you aren't familiar with his games...but I recommend playing them.

This always bugged me a little. Whenever I see buff suggestions for Kirby, a lot of people tend to go for the air speed despite the fact he truly is slow in his home games. It's a trait I've always associated him with, so imaging him zipping around like Jigglypuff is kinda jarring to me. Speaking of which, she's the only character with multiple jumps to actually have great air speed (2nd best in the game. For comparison, Meta Knight would be the runner up in this category at 35th) so giving another character (and a better one at that) that strength would take away from that tiny niche she's got carved out for herself. Just my personal feelings, anyway.

Here are some ideas I have. Generally my line of thought was to give him more ranged moves and increase his kill power here and there. I'll admit, I'm not good at this sort of thing but I'll give it a shot

Fair- Spits out a puff of air that travels a short ways. Pretty iconic move, gives him a range option, and provides a follow up for fthrow.

Dash Attack- Kirby transforms into a Wheel, moving slightly faster than his run speed. Moderate kill power with some endlag

Neutral B- I like the suggestions that were mentioned earlier with him being able to eat more things and spit them out.

Side B- Beam Whip. He shoots out a beam of electricity that covers an arc in front of him. Hits multiple times, mid knockback, but doesn't combo to avoid problems with copy abilities. There's probably other better choices for his side B, but tbh, I just like Beam

Down B- I have two changes. When running, Kirby can transform into a stone while retaining his momentum, sliding forward a little bit with a hitbox. He can also slide right off edges. The start up for Stone on the ground is a lot faster, but at the cost of power.

My other change is simply to reduce start up in the air by a tiny bit. Stone does a fair amount of shield damage and without OHKO Hammer Flip to worry about, I think this option could be made a little stronger.

Up B- Increase projectile distance. Didn't it travel a lot further in Brawl, or I am not remembering right?

Final Smash- Hypernova. Basically a supped up inhale with a much larger hitbox. Kirby will suck up both characters and items and spit them out as a star. The star gets bigger the more Kirby eats and will explode after it travels for a bit, launching anyone stuck in it. Ultra Sword's pretty outdated and while you could say the same for Hypernova, it still suits his character a lot.

Nominating the other pink thing

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whoa thread is getting active again! Nice to see!

Guess there really is a lot of potential left for Kirby. I also agree that Brawl Kirby was very fun, but so was Smash 64 Kirby!

Notice that F Air? I really want that back.

Will count nominations later today!

 

[Just a random scrub]

This always bugged me a little. Whenever I see buff suggestions for Kirby, a lot of people tend to go for the air speed despite the fact he truly is slow in his home games. It's a trait I've always associated him with, so imaging him zipping around like Jigglypuff is kinda jarring to me. Speaking of which, she's the only character with multiple jumps to actually have great air speed (2nd best in the game. For comparison, Meta Knight would be the runner up in this category at 35th) so giving another character (and a better one at that) that strength would take away from that tiny niche she's got carved out for herself. Just my personal feelings, anyway.

I realized that, but IMO, Kirby is a very hard character to balance, since he has all the tools, just not the mobility to use those tools. Looking at some clips of Kirby gameplay right now, though, I suppose high air speed is very unfitting for Kirby. Back to the drawing board....

 

[Dig Dug]

I realized that, but IMO, Kirby is a very hard character to balance, since he has all the tools, just not the mobility to use those tools. Looking at some clips of Kirby gameplay right now, though, I suppose high air speed is very for Kirby. Back to the drawing board....

Yeah, that's why I get why people want air speed buffs. His kit really isn't bad at all, specials not withstanding, but it also doesn't really suit him imo.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Speaking of Final Smashes, which I had forgotten:
I think Kirby's Final Smash of Brawl should be back because it was fun and it suited the character a lot. But it just was not well used in the game. Maybe while the cauldron warmed you had to go get your opponents and toss them into the cauldron where they would take hits until the cauldron exploded at the end. To get them you could use a bag, a spoon, or use a grab or hit them with something, or swallow them and bring them to the cauldron. Another option regarding the cauldron would explode would be Kirby simply swallowing the enemies. And they would die right there. As if they had hit the edge of the stage. A second option, instead of using the cauldron, would be to simply suck the enemies in front of you and have the same result as I said. In addition to copying all Specials, another option would be to copy Final Smash as well. So you have to be careful and know what character you copied and who you are in time to use a Final Smash. Again, this would add to the strategy around Sakurai's baby.

 

[PeridotGX]

So I made a completely alternate Kirby Moveset. I don't think he needs this drastic of a change, but I do quite like the specials.

Spoiler: Kirby New Moveset

Jab Combo: Same

Up-Tilt: Leaf Uppercut. Taken from the Leaf copy ability from Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, Kirby does a quick uppercut using a pile of leaves, visually similar to Bayo’s Smashes. It’s very quick, but quite low in knockback.

Side Tilt: Broom Clean. Kirby uses a broom from the long forgotten Clean copy ability from KDL3. He swipes in front of him. It has low damage but has a windbox

Down Tilt: Balloon Burst. Kirby brings Triple Deluxe’s Circus to town! He makes a balloon and inflates it until it pops. Like in TD, it can change shape, though it has no impact on damage.

Dash Attack: Burning Dash. From more games than I can count, Fire’s dash attack/ Burning’s attack returns from Melee! It functions just as it does in the games, sending Kirby quite a bit further forward and dealing some Fire damage to whoever it hits.


Neutral Air: Twinkle Star. Same

Front/Back Air: Freezer Sparkle. From Ice Kirby’s midair attack in most Kirby Games, Kirby spews snow around him and spins rapidly. At higher percents it can freeze.

Up Air: Needle Stab. Coming from the rather forgettable Needle copy ability, Kirby stabs at the air above him.

Down Air: Stone. Near 1-to-1 his old Down-B from midair.


Up Smash: Geyser. Taken From Water from RTDL, it has a long hitbox right above Kirby.

Side Smash: Hammer. Similar to his old Side-Special, it does a lot of damage but has large lag.

Down Smash: Mirror Split: Mirror Kirby from Super Star and Robobot’s signature attack. Kirby has two Mirror images appear on both sides to deal damage. There’s decent range as well as invincibility frames while attacking


Neutral-B: Inhale. Changing this would be insane

Side B: Poison Ride. Using the Poison ability from Robobot, Kirby rides around on a Toxic pile of sludge like in Sonic’s Spin Dash, Yoshi's Egg Ride, and similar attacks. It’s slower than those attacks, but it leaves behind puddles of poison that deal damage.

Up B: Missile. Using the aforementioned Missile ability from Amazing Mirror, Kirby turns into a Missile in what can only be described as a supercharged variant of Villager’s Up B. Missile Kirby can dart around the stage quite easily, but he’s very difficult to control and he has no brakes.

Down B: Unstable Formula. Using the Doctor Copy ability from Robobot, Kirby starts to make a potion, randomly selected from four. It takes a few seconds to charge, but after that he can use it whenever. The fire one does the most damage, but has the smallest hitbox. The ice one has a larger hitbox and can Freeze, but deals less damage. The Electric one has 4 projectiles fall out of the bottle. Each projectile goes far, but does less damage. An opponent can get hit by multiple projectiles, if they touch all 4 it’s almost as much damage as the fire attack. The healing potion appears very infrequently, but heals 30%.

Final Smash: Hypernova. Using the Hypernova ability that debuted in Triple Deluxe, Kirby turns a rainbow color and starts inhaling rapidly, attempting to consume anything "close" to him (Close is about half of Palutena's Temple). If Kirby inhales someone, they take a lot of damage. Afterwards, Kirby spits out a giant star, which gets bigger depending on how many things he inhaled.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I wonder how well it'd work to make at least a few more of Kirby's attacks disjointed, so that they better wall out opponents. Since, as aforementioned, for game accuracy, making him too much faster in the air isn't fitting, but, Kirby does tend to have really disjointed attacks in his own games. (For comparison, compare his Nair in Smash to how it looks as part of the Smash/Smash Bros. ability in Kirby games; the Kirby series version has it surrounded with airwaves to increase its range.) His attacks in Smash probably shouldn't be *that* disjointed, but they could get a little more range to at least make up for the fact that they decreased the size of his feet in Smash 4.

Another option is to give him some burst movement options to make up for his normal movement being slow. In Kirby games, there usually are abilities that make him be able to go faster (especially in Super Star/ modern styled games) so something to that effect could be useful, like, at the very least, giving him his slide kick from the large majority of Kirby games. Perhaps the slide kick could be ledge cancelled, like in his games (whether or not it retains its momentum after being cancelled depends on the game, most modern games don't keep its momentum) so it could be used as a movement tech of sorts.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I still want to hear others' thoughts on Kirby having infinite jumps.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Whoa thread is getting active again! Nice to see!

Guess there really is a lot of potential left for Kirby. I also agree that Brawl Kirby was very fun, but so was Smash 64 Kirby!

Notice that F Air? I really want that back.

Will count nominations later today!

...Oh yeah, I forgot all about Smash 64 Kirby. Lol, that puffball was BEAST back in the N64 days!

I don't want to make him too much like Smash 64 Kirby, because he was actually pretty damn busted there (not as OP as Pika, but pretty close). However, I agree, his 64 forward air looks much better to me.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I still want to hear others' thoughts on Kirby having infinite jumps.

It would be busted just because of stalling; several characters wouldn’t be able to reach him at all if he hovers either off the top of the screen or right under the stage. While tournaments have rules against that, it would be a significant issue in things like normal online modes where that isn’t enforced.

I should point out that, in Kirby’s own fighting games (Kirby Fighters / Deluxe and Kirby Battle Royale) he doesn’t have infinite jumps and tires out after a while. In Fighters / Deluxe you can go around this by using certain abilities’ upward attacks (Sword, Fighter, Beetle, etc.) but those stages have ceilings at least.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It's lame that a defining feature of a character is altered with no in-universe explanation.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm pretty sure his jump count capped at 8 in Crystal Shards, too. I see no reason to give Kirby infinite jumps and several not to.

As for 64 Kirby's F air, it's rather too similar to D air, IMO. I liked it but the cut makes sense.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm pretty sure his jump count capped at 8 in Crystal Shards, too. I see no reason to give Kirby infinite jumps and several not to.

As for 64 Kirby's F air, it's rather too similar to D air, IMO. I liked it but the cut makes sense.

8 jumps would be good, or they could just increase his jump's heights. Played a lot of Smash Run lately, and Kirby definitely feels more 'right' when he has more Jump stat boosts. Same with Charizard actually.

Airbone characters need more attention anyway. Brawl had it more right with the whole glide mechanism, wish they expanded on that. Not really Kirby related honestly, just felt like saying that.

Infinite jumps for Kirby is a possibility that would make sense however.

Also for my own contributions earlier, I nominate Charizard.

 

[Deleted member]

It's lame that a defining feature of a character is altered with no in-universe explanation.

You mean altered in Smash Bros.? A lot of characters have been altered...not everyone was as lucky as Mega Man.

 

[ryuu seika]

8 jumps would be good, or they could just increase his jump's heights. Played a lot of Smash Run lately, and Kirby definitely feels more 'right' when he has more Jump stat boosts. Same with Charizard actually.

I could go either way on Kirby but, with his fall speed what it is, Charizard definitely needs bigger jumps.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You mean altered in Smash Bros.? A lot of characters have been altered...not everyone was as lucky as Mega Man.

Idk what you're talking about. Who else has had one of their defining abilities changed so greatly in smash?

 

[ryuu seika]

1) Infinite jumps has never been a consistent feature of Kirby games.
2) Mario doesn't hurt people by footstooling and Megaman can't copy moves. Zelda can use blessings that only Link recieved and Samus can't aim her shots. I'm sure there are more.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Idk what you're talking about. Who else has had one of their defining abilities changed so greatly in smash?

Charizard... I always imagine him playing FAR more like his Mega self how his Final Smash is done than how he's fighting since Brawl. He's supposed to be able to FLY and be rather fast, he's only a heavy weight because of the Brawl trio of the Pokemon Trainer. I nominated him, because I would really like to see him changed up a lot.

Also, the current votes are in:


:4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

For all the consistant posters, PLEASE consider to vote to keep the thread going.. I mean, Dark Pit hasn't had proper votes in about 2 weeks or so, just ONE loyal person voting for him all the time. Not that I have anything against Dark Pit revamps, in fact, it's fairly reasonable to expect / WANT them to happen.. but the lack of votes holds the thread's potential down.

 

[PeridotGX]

Sorry, I forgot. Nominating Yoshi.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Charizard... I always imagine him playing FAR more like his Mega self how his Final Smash is done than how he's fighting since Brawl. He's supposed to be able to FLY and be rather fast, he's only a heavy weight because of the Brawl trio of the Pokemon Trainer. I nominated him, because I would really like to see him changed up a lot.

Also, the current votes are in:


:4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

For all the consistant posters, PLEASE consider to vote to keep the thread going.. I mean, Dark Pit hasn't had proper votes in about 2 weeks or so, just ONE loyal person voting for him all the time. Not that I have anything against Dark Pit revamps, in fact, it's fairly reasonable to expect / WANT them to happen.. but the lack of votes holds the thread's potential down.

My head canon is that Charizard doesn't know Fly in smash.

I vote for Ike, as long as Opossum or someone else passionate about FE canon comments.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Hey guys, I got a cool idea.

What if, a little down the road after we exhaust most of the SSB4 characters, we get the option to vote for Brawl/Melee veterans that weren't in SSB4?

(As for who I'll vote for..... I really don't know. All the people I have a lot of ideas for, I know in my heart won't win. I'll just wait til the end and see who's in the lead)

 

[Deleted member]

Hope I'm not late on this.

Kirby is an interesting case. He's supposed to be a simple character, despite the myriad of copy abilities at his disposal. He's just bad though, sporting poor range and mobility on top of lacking a proper projectile at base. This combines to create a fighter that simply can't use his strengths at close range because it's extremely hard to get there in the first place.

With that in mind, the first thing I'd do is change his Forward Air to the Fighter ability's aerial kick that emits a big energy projectile. It gives him a good pressure tool at midrange like Villager's slingshot without standing out too much.

Next, I'd change his side special. Hammer Flip is a weirdly strong move on a fighter like Kirby, and it also steps on Dedede's turf. Plus it's bad. I'd make this the Beetle ability's Rocket Horn, which has Kirby dash forward with his beetle horn outstretched. Any opponents who get caught by it are grabbed by the horn, and Kirby can either throw them as a projectile or fly in a backwards circle before slamming them into the ground, the stronger but less versatile option. This would act as a command grab and give Kirby horizontal mobility on both the ground and in the air, providing him with a strong burst movement option to help counteract his poor speed while delineating his recovery. It also plays into Kirby's seeming focus on close range combat.

I'm hesitant to touch Stone and Final Cutter though. They're unique, Smash staples, and are harder to balance for both casual and competitive audiences. I would make Kirbycides KO the opponent first though.

For miscellaneous things, I'd buff the range on a few of his kicks. His feet are comically large, and he desperately needs more range in general. I'd also increase some combination of his air, walk, and/or dash speed since he needs extra mobility to function.

And finally, Hypernova for a Final Smash. It fits Kirby perfectly.

Nominating Dark Pit.

 

[Deleted member]

I started playing Triple Deluxe recently and can I just say...the Beetle ability is so good and a lot of fun! I like the idea of replacing Hammer with something else with more mobility, as much fun as the hammer can be (but you're right...it does end up being very situational, even more so than when it was introduced in Melee).

I nominate

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Guys, it's Wednesday. Is it not the middle of the week? Why do not we start another discussion? Did not the Dark Pit win? Sorry, I had to ask.

 

[Minch]

Kirby's special moves are perfectly representative of his games.
Changing any of them would make him feel empty.

Copy I'm not even going to talk about cause you'd be crazy to want that gone.
Final Cutter is great, just needs more of that spike impact that it did in 64.
Stone is perfect, just give us some updated and funny new forms. Tanooki Mario or a rock Pokemon would be awesome.
Hammer flip is great, I just want it to work like it did in Brawl in the air. With the slower 2 hit swing. Felt so good connecting with that. But the new charging mechanic should stay.

The final smash needs to gets updated. Something from Star Allies with a dream friend team up. Would be a great way to include other Kirby characters that may or may not make it in. (fingers crossed for Bandana Dee!)

And give us a new stage that isn't the Great Cave Nightmare.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Guys, it's Wednesday. Is it not the middle of the week? Why do not we start another discussion? Did not the Dark Pit win? Sorry, I had to ask.

Yeah my excuses, Friday is the new day now where we gonna switch things up because I messed up a week ago or the one before.

Votes are still eglible if you post a contribution to the current character of the week. Just make sure it's not just one sentance and try to actually contribute, and I'll count the vote.

Jigglypuff is gonna proof how much a change a few votes from contributing members can bring her way up in the list, whereas she had 0 votes before.

Also, cut Melee / Brawl veterans ARE legal to vote for. So don't hessitate to vote for Wolf, Squirtle, Pichu or the Ice Climbers at all!

Changing the character of the week in about 24 hours from now.

EDIT: Counted votes again...


:5 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

 

[Just a random scrub]

Well, just to ensure he is the character of the week, I'll drop one last vote for Dark Pit, because I want to make a very quick post this go around and be done with it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Excuse the delay again, my social life has been hectic as of late. As an apology, am giving Dark Pit one extra day.

Dark Pit, the counterpart of the angelic retro newcomer of Brawl; Dark Pit. Who basically came into existence because of the black alternative color of Pit in Brawl.

Discuss all possible moveset changes you have in mind for Dark Pit.