The real reason Japan is better than America

[DMG]

MK dittos on FD, good sir.

Do not get it twisted, MK dittos on Castle Siege are an abomination to mankind

 

[kailo34ce]

everytime someone picks halberd i just starting double jumping around because i forget all my fundamentals and have to start over from scratch again

maybe its all those flashy effects and pretty colors on the CP stages that make us lose this "focus" the japanese players have

 

[DMG]

Sometimes I go under the platform and I forget how to glide and just SD down.

 

[kailo34ce]

i heard japan players dont even play teams and they won teams, maybe we should just stop playing brawl alltogether and itll make us really good hell i havent played in so long i might be pro.

i kinda wish they played with items so then this discussion would be about how we need to play with items

 

[B.A.M.]

Banning MK isnt going to better other characters metagames. People getting off their ***** and actually pushing their character outside a mere two people will do that. people just want to be hand fed in this current fighting game generation. Noone wants to try to figure out new things.

Our gaming culture sucks. Period. Noone wants to try, they just want freebies, want to be told all the good tactics ( even when they dont even know WHY they work) and go about their day. And if it fails? then they complain. Thats the American Gaming Culture.

East Asian gaming is taken way more seriously. People attempt to better themselves, try to learn new things, teach one another, WORK AROUND MATCH UP DISADVANTAGES, etc. They want to win, they dont give a crap about money, they want to show that they just outplayed this person. We need to stop looking around for something to blame and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We need to look around and say ' our Ruleset and most of all our mentality about this game is flawed and we need to make changes.' Then America as a whole can move forward in this game.

Its kinda funny how this is an issue with the entire US. America as a whole is in a very similar issue when it comes to politics and the economy. Funny where patterns will express themselves.

Another thing, I love how people just keep spouting Jason ran into Nair all day. Did you even bother looking at how many Nairs actually landed on M2K? Or the situations they were landed in? 3/4s of the Nairs Ocean landed on Jason were actual punishments on a cooldown, meaning there wasnt anything he couldve done about it. Take a good look at the match, a VERY good look. Jason didnt play as bad as everyone makes it out to seem. He just got outplayed.

Stop being so prideful and get over it. Lets just focus on getting better. I would like to see us walk away with our heads held up high next Apex instead of lamenting in the Land of the Free.

 

[Tesh]

I skimmed that post and saw "stop looking around for something to blame" and "our ruleset is flawed".

Please do go on.

 

[Cassio]

I dont understand why people are upset over this in the first place. If your region likes lots of stages, cool. If your region likes 3 stages, cool. Both should stop caring about what the Unity Ruleset says and just do what they like and will get people to attend. At some point it just comes down to preference.

Or we go one step further in what makes them better than us and come up with a competitively synchronized system instead of the polarized atrocity we have now as a counterpick system.

You keep alluding to this but youve never elaborated on the specifics. I think a lot of people would be interested to hear.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

@DMG - Yeah, I would be OK with the stages going away forever. 3 neutrals, 3 counterpicks.

The thread is starting to breed trolls. :-/.

 

[DMG]

That was the point. You said something along the lines of "Well later on people can bring back stages" and I pointed out how taking stages out of the game usually turns permanent even if it wasn't meant to be.

 

[DFEAR]

Our gaming culture sucks. Period. Noone wants to try, they just want freebies, want to be told all the good tactics ( even when they dont even know WHY they work) and go about their day. And if it fails? then they complain. Thats the American Gaming Culture.

East Asian gaming is taken way more seriously. People attempt to better themselves, try to learn new things, teach one another, WORK AROUND MATCH UP DISADVANTAGES, etc. They want to win, they dont give a crap about money, they want to show that they just outplayed this person. We need to stop looking around for something to blame and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We need to look around and say ' our Ruleset and most of all our mentality about this game is flawed and we need to make changes.' Then America as a whole can move forward in this game.

Its kinda funny how this is an issue with the entire US. America as a whole is in a very similar issue when it comes to politics and the economy. Funny where patterns will express themselves.

love this guy

 

[Dr. Tuen]

That was the point. You said something along the lines of "Well later on people can bring back stages" and I pointed out how taking stages out of the game usually turns permanent even if it wasn't meant to be.

True. And if the world was completely ideal we could bring them back, but a permanent change would be better than the direction we are headed in.

 

[DeLux]

You keep alluding to this but youve never elaborated on the specifics. I think a lot of people would be interested to hear.

You can skype me if you want, or ask BAM because he and I discussed it in pretty large detail at one point, but I'm writing a book and the issues with our CP system is part of it.

 

[Tommy_G]

I skimmed that post and saw "stop looking around for something to blame" and "our ruleset is flawed".

Please do go on.

You said earlier to ban MK to reduce counterpicking....

I've not been able to take anything else you've said seriously.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Good read.

Ban Meta in doubles. Reduce the stage list (not necessarily so dramatically, to three stages). Increase the timer to 10 mins.

 

[KoNfucius]

does anybody think that maybe the japanese players just practiced harder for apex, maybe even studied video of top us players, practice on cp stages, and teams. Their goal was to win apex im sure they put in countless hours preparing and focusing on this one goal.

 

[kailo34ce]

You said earlier to ban MK to reduce counterpicking....

I've not been able to take anything else you've said seriously.

re-read what he said.


also im glad everyone pretty much thinks BAM is an idiot. threads finally getting good

 

[suinoko/Jade Stern]

Some Japanese think American players are strong because of money(honor) which is exact opposite opinion of foreigners lol
and I think Japan have better wifi network than USA because Japan is much smaller.

and I can say there are no difference of strength between Japan and the others.
but USA has many player,so consequently I think America is better.

Nietono says"Now only 5 people(9B,Nietono,SLS,Otori,Rain) have power to get 1st in Japan", but America has many people of that.

 

[Deleted member]

TLDR: Japan is better because they rely more on their own skills to carry them to victory, and less on stage gimmicks. As a result they are much more equipped for fighting MK and are able to take down even our "gayest".

Seibrik I don't know if you remember this but I said this **** for the first 2 YEARS I was in the BBR before I quit because it was too ********. The Japanese don't ban things that aren't proven to be broken and they play on non-******** stages so you're forced to deal with the opponent.

I was the lead of the MK anti-ban side for the first 3 full votes and won them but I realized after the third that as long as the topic has double jeopardy available to it, the issue is going to keep coming back, even if they say it's the "last vote". My ***.

And then they banned MK so you could save stupid **** like Halberd? Get real. Apparently I quit at just the right time.

I hope the brawl results from APEX are a wake-up call to america that you can't win by being a *****.

 

[kailo34ce]

Seibrik I don't know if you remember this but I said this **** for the first 2 YEARS I was in the BBR before I quit because it was too ********. The Japanese don't ban things that aren't proven to be broken and they play on non-******** stages so you're forced to deal with the opponent.

I was the lead of the MK anti-ban side for the first 3 full votes and won them but I realized after the third that as long as the topic has double jeopardy available to it, the issue is going to keep coming back, even if they say it's the "last vote". My ***.

And then they banned MK so you could save stupid **** like Halberd? Get real. Apparently I quit at just the right time.

I hope the brawl results from APEX are a wake-up call to america that you can't win by being a *****.

when i joined this site you explained alot to me over the course of 20 minutes and it helped me learn alot about the scene, i was a little kid.


youve grown hateful with brawl.

i am sad.

 

[Tommy_G]

Seibrik I don't know if you remember this but I said this **** for the first 2 YEARS I was in the BBR before I quit because it was too ********. The Japanese don't ban things that aren't proven to be broken and they play on non-******** stages so you're forced to deal with the opponent.

I was the lead of the MK anti-ban side for the first 3 full votes and won them but I realized after the third that as long as the topic has double jeopardy available to it, the issue is going to keep coming back, even if they say it's the "last vote". My ***.

And then they banned MK so you could save stupid **** like Halberd? Get real. Apparently I quit at just the right time.

I hope the brawl results from APEX are a wake-up call to america that you can't win by being a *****.

**** man....it's these kinds of smashers that know what they're talking about.

Japan laughed at us for considering the MK ban.

The current stages do not help us figure out what we are doing wrong. They force people to find stupid gimmicks with them and take away from the game at hand. You should be outplaying your opponent and their character, not your opponent+their character+the stage.

Also....

Btw, someone told me they thought Jungle Japes should be banned because it centralizes around a few characters (idr which ones they said)

Ok, I'm ok with this..........but if centralizing stages that give characters too much of an advantage is criteria for a ban, then WHY the hell is Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, and Halberd legal?!!?!?

 

[Ghostbone]

does anybody think that maybe the japanese players just practiced harder for apex, maybe even studied video of top us players, practice on cp stages, and teams. Their goal was to win apex im sure they put in countless hours preparing and focusing on this one goal.

No they don't think, Americans want an excuse for losing and are blaming their stage list for it.

 

[zmx]

No one is saying they lost exclusively because of the stage list. You're missing the point behind this. The argument is that crazy CP stages discourage people to work harder and put in more effort because they can just rely on gimmicks to win. With a conservative stage list and MK legal players will be more focused on getting better in general instead of focusing on which CP stage they can abuse the most.

 

[ADHD]

They weren't better than us previously, it's just that their technical and incredibly precise playstyles are what's in right now for the metagame.

 

[Ruuku]

People getting off their ***** and actually pushing their character outside a mere two people will do that. people just want to be hand fed in this current fighting game generation.

Noone wants to try, they just want freebies, want to be told all the good tactics ( even when they dont even know WHY they work) and go about their day. And if it fails? then they complain.

We need to stop looking around for something to blame and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We need to look around and say ' our Ruleset and most of all our mentality about this game is flawed and we need to make changes.' Then America as a whole can move forward in this game.

Its kinda funny how this is an issue with the entire US. America as a whole is in a very similar issue when it comes to politics and the economy. Funny where patterns will express themselves.

Stop being so prideful and get over it. Lets just focus on getting better. I would like to see us walk away with our heads held up high next Apex instead of lamenting in the Land of the Free.

Basically this. But I do prefer my suggestion of worshiping the Japanese as gods for only gods can defeat America.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

tuen, add me on skype, i'd love talking to you more about theories/possible changes we can make to help improve our metagame.



also, people in the thread, make sure to re-read the posts i saved in the first post, and PM me any and all posts you think qualify to be added. I'm trying to keep this organized, and maintaining the first post as concisely as possible for new readers and saving them time instead of reading X pages to catch up.

 

[Steam]

Japanese don't ban things that aren't proven to be broken

which is why they ban stages like castle siege and Pokemon stadium 1. those stages are so broken

 

[Judo777]

Consecutive hard reads........... is a really REALLY steep price. In other games 3 consecutive hard reads....... wins the entire game. In some games..... 3 consective hard reads wins the entire set.

Consecutive hard reads can literally translate to "outplay the living piss out of."

I like the idea of what your getting at. I don't think your solution is correct.

Japan beat us because we DON'T LEARN MU'S because we DON'T PLAY MU'S because WE RELY ON HUGE CHARACTER ADVANTAGE.

 

[Steam]

I honestly think the japanese are better because they're much more dedicated to mastering their characters and have much better access to practice partners due to the better internet and stupidly high population density.

I don't understand how playing on bf will make you better than if you played on frigate. if a platform moving and the stage occasionally forcing you to jump is really that big of a deal and impairs your ability to improve... then just lol.

some people have also been saying playing on neutrals improves their ability to adapt to those stages.... soooooo playing on bf is better practice for playing on frigate than playing on frigate is? I don't get it.

people should stop finding excuses and trying to blame the stage list and just accept that they're better because they're better, not for some easily fixable reason.

 

[Big-Cat]

Not a competitive Brawl player, but I'm really liking this thread. Might make me consider doing competitive Smash.

Its kinda funny how this is an issue with the entire US. America as a whole is in a very similar issue when it comes to politics and the economy. Funny where patterns will express themselves.

First, I just want to say that this is a damn good post. Second, this reminded of a line from Apollo Justice where a person's personality can be determined from how people act in competition. Third, thank you for reminding me that America is ****ed up in philosophy.

Consecutive hard reads can literally translate to "outplay the living piss out of."

Thank God you didn't say it always translate to that. The problem, though, is when this or that character has to make way more reads than the rest of the cast just to get by.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

tuen, add me on skype, i'd love talking to you more about theories/possible changes we can make to help improve our metagame.

Sure, sounds good. Do you go by Seibrik on there too?

Consecutive hard reads........... is a really REALLY steep price. In other games 3 consecutive hard reads....... wins the entire game. In some games..... 3 consective hard reads wins the entire set.

Consecutive hard reads can literally translate to "outplay the living piss out of."

I like the idea of what your getting at. I don't think your solution is correct.

Japan beat us because we DON'T LEARN MU'S because we DON'T PLAY MU'S because WE RELY ON HUGE CHARACTER ADVANTAGE.

That and all the Japanese have pocket Diddy's and pocket IC's. Meaning, epic item control and grab timing/avoidance.

 

[Orion*]

lets focus on getting better instead of changing the rules lmao

 

[Ruuku]

Oh... so much could be said about the presentation of our community with respect to this. I personally wish that "gay" and "****" would be struck from the collective smash vocabulary... but there's little one person can do to change that, aside adapting the new behavior.

I believe this is much more significant than some people may think. Language is an important characteristic of communities. It goes with what I and some others in this thread have posted about the American Smash community reflecting attributes from mainstream American societies. So one would not find it surprising to hear everything positive as "godlike" while everything negative is "gay".

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

You know, reading through this thread is depressing. You have obviously not learned the lesson Apex 2012 showed. The moral of your defeat is obvious, you know why you lost, but you intend to stay with the mentality of " If I lose, I can blame something else for my loss and it's ok.... right? ". You will not grow as a community unless you lose that. The best way to do so is to attend international tournies that are not held in the US. For example, since when have any of you ever traveled outside the US to attend? Only a handful, such as Ally and a few others, have attended a tournament that is outside. Japan has traveled to Apex twice and none of you have ever bothered to attend Japan's biggest national, Sunrise Tournament., which is the only tournament you would ever be interested in because it involves money. A lot of money might I add.

The base of this post is, what are you going to do about your loss? Sit on SWF and whine about how you were defeat and john about if he would have~. No should be the answer. If you want to get better, then attend International tournaments outside the US.

SRT, or Sunrise tournament is being held in Kita - ku , Tokyo, near Ojiekimae Station, in early August. If you want to get better, hope to see you there.

 

[Flayl]

Personally I see a lot of "it's ok that I lost because I didn't practice. those stages are gay tho" on these boards

 

[Novabound]

I don't believe their wifi has no delay. I'd have to see it to believe it. Even smash 64 has delay online due to the constant need of data transfer for every frame inputted.

Japan is on fiber optics. Their internet is vastly superior to ours. Played LoL with a friend stationed in japan and his ping was 30.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

tuen, i go by Seibrik on everything in life lmao

 

[BBQTV]

you know saying the japanese are better cause they are japanese is racist

 

[-LzR-]

Finland has toptier internet stuff. That means Finland = Japan >= USA.

 

[xDD-Master]

lets focus on getting better instead of changing the rules lmao

This

You know, reading through this thread is depressing. You have obviously not learned the lesson Apex 2012 showed. The moral of your defeat is obvious, you know why you lost, but you intend to stay with the mentality of " If I lose, I can blame something else for my loss and it's ok.... right? ". You will not grow as a community unless you lose that. The best way to do so is to attend international tournies that are not held in the US. For example, since when have any of you ever traveled outside the US to attend? Only a handful, such as Ally and a few others, have attended a tournament that is outside. Japan has traveled to Apex twice and none of you have ever bothered to attend Japan's biggest national, Sunrise Tournament., which is the only tournament you would ever be interested in because it involves money. A lot of money might I add.

The base of this post is, what are you going to do about your loss? Sit on SWF and whine about how you were defeat and john about if he would have~. No should be the answer. If you want to get better, then attend International tournaments outside the US.

SRT, or Sunrise tournament is being held in Kita - ku , Tokyo, near Ojiekimae Station, in early August. If you want to get better, hope to see you there.

This


RC/Brinstar need to go nevertheless, Apex Stage List [+ PS2 maybe] is the best.

Beside that, just get better and stop all the whine/johns.

Might change Land of the Free to Land of the Johns.

 

[Meru.]

I honestly think the japanese are better because they're much more dedicated to mastering their characters and have much better access to practice partners due to the better internet and stupidly high population density.

I don't understand how playing on bf will make you better than if you played on frigate. if a platform moving and the stage occasionally forcing you to jump is really that big of a deal and impairs your ability to improve... then just lol.

some people have also been saying playing on neutrals improves their ability to adapt to those stages.... soooooo playing on bf is better practice for playing on frigate than playing on frigate is? I don't get it.

people should stop finding excuses and trying to blame the stage list and just accept that they're better because they're better, not for some easily fixable reason.

This is so true! Especially the bolded part. If stages would really have that much of an influence on our playstyles, then obviously the experiences of USA players would have paid off very visibly. BUT SOMEHOOOOOW the Japanese managed to survive on counterpicks!

Yeah well DUUUH it's because those counterpicks barely provided any hazards to drastically adapt to. Delfino, Castle Siege, Frigate... you know what these stages are like after playing on them for at most three times. Stages are retardedly overrated.

Although I respect Seibrik's opinion, I am genuinely surprised in a very negative way that this thread has got so much support. I am not American but I am 100% sure that limiting stages is not the answer. It's not as if the US MAJORLY falls behind Japan anyway.