Meta The Psychic Log: Mewtwo's Metagame Discussion

[Swoops]

To be fair, confusion has roughly the same cool down frames as a pivot grab. It has the same effect too, but with multiple advantages.

Namely a huge disjointed hitbox, pretty good active frames (from what I can tell,) and the ability to do it in the air. Also reflecting projectiles is a great bonus.

One thing that may be useful is retreating SH confusion. If you jump and face away, then confusion back towards the opponent while drifting back, you can confusion towards them while keeping your backwards momentum. If you do it correctly you can drift away quite far while doing confusion. May be hard in practice but it seems useful. If you do it immediately out of SH you even have enough time to cover yourself on landing with DJ FAir.

 

[Sonicninja115]

BSD posted a vid on Shield grabbing over dash grabbing. Now, mewtwo doesn't profit from this except for the decreased endlag, but, this might be a half-answer to the whiffing problem some people have with DG. Thoughts?

 

[Nobie]

I've been looking at all of the various matchup charts being posted by top players for their mains, and I think it's really noteworthy how many of them believe the matchup with Mewtwo is reasonably close.

Larry Lurr has Fox vs. Mewtwo as a "slight advantage," which is way lower than how a lot of people rate that matchup.
Umeki has Peach vs. Mewtwo as even.
ESAM has Pikachu vs. Mewtwo as 60:40, which I think puts it firmly in the realm of "winnable."
Dabuz refers to Rosalina vs. Mewtwo as an even matchup.

Compare this to that poll that was done across Smashboards, where EVERY character board believed they beat Mewtwo and I think we're starting to see opinions on M2 really shift. Granted, that old poll was pre-patch, but I think by the time the next official tier list rolls around Mewtwo's going to more than likely be considered mid tier if not better.

 

[Chiroz]

I've been looking at all of the various matchup charts being posted by top players for their mains, and I think it's really noteworthy how many of them believe the matchup with Mewtwo is reasonably close.

Larry Lurr has Fox vs. Mewtwo as a "slight advantage," which is way lower than how a lot of people rate that matchup.
Umeki has Peach vs. Mewtwo as even.
ESAM has Pikachu vs. Mewtwo as 60:40, which I think puts it firmly in the realm of "winnable."
Dabuz refers to Rosalina vs. Mewtwo as an even matchup.

Compare this to that poll that was done across Smashboards, where EVERY character board believed they beat Mewtwo and I think we're starting to see opinions on M2 really shift. Granted, that old poll was pre-patch, but I think by the time the next official tier list rolls around Mewtwo's going to more than likely be considered mid tier if not better.

I think the difference comes from the fact that one poll was a general public one, the other is pro player's opinion.

People here started saying Ganon was Mewtwo's worst matchup (I kid you not) and this is something that happens when someone with low to no game knowledge gets beat by his friend and tried to find a scape goat to blame instead of analyzing what he did wrong. They just blame it on the matchup.

Vice-Versa people with low game knowledge that 2 stock their friend's X character will most likely believe their char just outright beats X because their friend can keep up with them if they use any other char.



Anyways, whatever the case may be, Mewtwo isn't exactly free to any char.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I've been looking at all of the various matchup charts being posted by top players for their mains, and I think it's really noteworthy how many of them believe the matchup with Mewtwo is reasonably close.

Larry Lurr has Fox vs. Mewtwo as a "slight advantage," which is way lower than how a lot of people rate that matchup.
Umeki has Peach vs. Mewtwo as even.
ESAM has Pikachu vs. Mewtwo as 60:40, which I think puts it firmly in the realm of "winnable."
Dabuz refers to Rosalina vs. Mewtwo as an even matchup.

Compare this to that poll that was done across Smashboards, where EVERY character board believed they beat Mewtwo and I think we're starting to see opinions on M2 really shift. Granted, that old poll was pre-patch, but I think by the time the next official tier list rolls around Mewtwo's going to more than likely be considered mid tier if not better.

All those players have some experience against Mewtwo as well. Dabuz with Blue, Umeki with Ginko and Aba and Esam fought Mewsquared.

 

[Megamang]

Mew is a glass nuclear weapon. And some people don't have the launch codes.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Mew is a glass nuclear weapon. And some people don't have the launch codes.

So technical. He has a ton of amazing options, and because of this, not all M2 players can use him to half his full potential. A really great character.

 

[Sonicninja115]

SaucyDancer Do you main Mewtwo?

 

[Sonicninja115]

--- Did you change the title? (also, if you want to combine my previous posts that would be nice.

Also, anyone that wants to talk about Footstool-Disable. Chiroz discovered this sometime last month. So credit to him. If you have any questions, ask them here.

 

[---]

I did. Sorry I thought it would help direct people here/reboot discussion. Feel free to change it back.

It's funny how most metagame discussion is in the social thread.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I did. Sorry I thought it would help direct people here/reboot discussion. Feel free to change it back.

It's funny how most metagame discussion is in the social thread.

No worries. I need to update this thread. Do you think we should do a weekly discussion topic? Edge-guarding tactics, playstyles, Phasing discussion?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Weekly/Three-day discussion topics are now started!!! I will be mini abstaining so that other people have a chance to offer their input and my influence isn't overbearing.

@Metalex
@RichBrown
@MewSquared
@!Blue!
Chiroz
Swoops
@LRodC

Current Topic: Phasing

Notes:

Every aerial barring Dair will come out.
Fair and Uair autospace
Nair is pretty good out of it, but needs to be tested more.
Mix-ups and conditioning galore.
DON'T ALWAYS APPROACH!!!!
Discuss!​

 

[Quantumpen]

Thanks Sonic! Here's a repost of my thoughts/tricks from my thread


I haven't seen much discussion of this around the forums, but I use Mewtwo's air dodge a lot -- primarily not for dodging, so I wanted to dedicate a thread to it's approach/mind game usage, and also how to use it for ridiculous punishes. It's a ridiculous move, active on frame 2, first active frame 29, and due to mewtwo's floatiness he can do whatever he wants out of it.

The best part of Mewtwo's air-dodge is the opponent can't actually tell where you're going when you do it. You can sh-air dodge, forward, backwards -- up and then di in one direction, and the opponent will have no idea where you're going to pop up, leaving them to guess.

This sets up a great mixup for you. If you are in mid-range, given Mewtwo's aerial mobility -- you can mix up the following ways:

• Don't move forward much, spaced fair. This beats most attempts to try and "swat you" or punish the air dodge as long as you're not close.
• Go for a close/spaced u-air, which leads into lots of combos at low percents(it's almost like down-tilt)
• Air-dodge into/through the enemy, out of air-dodge nair. The height you come out of the short time is exactly the right height to get a 2-hit nair. If you fast fall this nair immediately after the second, you will get the nair + Up-Smash combo no matter how they pop out. You can also consistently get any tilt to true combo from at lower percents, including d-tilt and its many follow ups.
• If you've conditioned a shield, then just drift in/place or back and use confusion -- or use nair and then immediately grab.

It gets even better though, because...

• This 2-hit nair is insanely safe. If they shield it you can instantly grab/spot-dodge when you hit the ground, basically no one can punish you even if they block it do to how much you drift and the cross-up (some characters with ultra fast jabs might be able to if you go too deep, but it's hard). Even if you whiff it they pretty much can't punish it.
• This means the only way to get hit is if they correctly read your position and hit your during the five frames between the end of your invincibility and your faf at 29. This is possible but not easy, especially for some characters -- and requires them to guess where you went during your jump.

This is not totally safe, though I find it extremely useful both for getting damage and getting kills. Do beware of certain situations like Cloud in limit, who can use finishing touch and punish the air-dodge no matter where you are. Still, you can bait this by drifting backwards.

Mewtwo's air-dodge also comes out on frame 2. Frame freaking 2. You can do it out of a jump nearly as fast as you can shield by rolling from jump to shield. Using this to dodge is no harder than spot dodging, and the rewards are just ridiculous. Essentially any move you can sh-air-dodge instead of shield can get you a perfect 2-hit nair, which as mentioned above, is a free up-smash, or a free d-tilt + follow-up depending on percents>

You can punish a lot of moves this way. Mewtwo's FAF out of his air-dodge is 29, and his nair comes out on frame 6 (fair is one frame faster), so that 's 35/34 frames to drift to and land the nair since you have to do it right out of the air-dodge.

This will punish pretty much all successfully dodged grab or smash attacks, and a large number of slower tilts/specials at a range where you couldn't do so otherwise. In reality you can get this even more often because even the best players won't react perfectly every time.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Something crazyish.

https://twitter.com/LettuceUdon/status/712622230287425536

Chiroz I found out how M2's airdodge is different!

 

[Murlough]

Does anyone know how much Mewtwo could benefit from Bidou? I'm considering it since most people immediately say "its bad" and it looks promising to me. (That Mewtwo main Deja Vu tho).

 

[Sonicninja115]

Does anyone know how much Mewtwo could benefit from Bidou? I'm considering it since most people immediately say "its bad" and it looks promising to me. (That Mewtwo main Deja Vu tho).

It has it's uses. I don't use it as I can already use PP and stuff proficiently, but if you want to use it, Bidou is a great way to learn AT's and such.

 

[Megamang]

Perfecting Bidou could give you an extremely unique and slippery playstyle. Sliding spot dodges would be nice specifically since our roll is fairly slow.

Phasing... is a great mixup. Between rising fair and airdodge fair, most characters cant cover both. And, if something goes awry, you can drift away. Phase uair is a solid combo starter. I like to mix in full hop AD, since they cant tell you've done this until you reappear, and you can drop a dair or nair on them, nair especially if they do something like rising fair to attempt to stuff your fair (since theyre used to fair).

I really like it in MUs where fair will miss a grounded opponent. Empty airdodges also are great. Mewtwo has one of, if not the, best airdodges

 

[Quantumpen]

I played Melee for 12 years -- and while Bidou may yet prove to be amazing in the future -- there are considerable costs. Namely not having c-stick aerials is hugely detrimental. You can PP without it given a lot of practice.

 

[Sonicninja115]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvFspixWsw More combos! Yay!

Anyways, Bidou is a great way to do techs easier and not have to put a hundred hours into it. There are some perks, and some downsides. But in general, that is what Bidou is. Instant wall-jump is pretty much Bidou specific, but C-stick aerials are really nice.

 

[SaucyDancer]

SaucyDancer Do you main Mewtwo?

Hey man, yeah Im still playing Mewtwo.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hey man, yeah Im still playing Mewtwo.

Thanks! I am making a notable players list, so I wanted to make sure if you were manning him or not.

 

[Y2Kay]

KillerJawz posted a video on phasing:

He even gave Sonicninja115 a shout on his Nair guide too

 

[Sonicninja115]

KillerJawz posted a video on phasing:

He even gave Sonicninja115 a shout on his Nair guide too

KillerJawz lurks the boards a lot, and I message him to talk about random tech, so he isn't really a stranger. He is actually coming out of retirement this June apparently, at an Avalon.



My Thoughts:

Mewtwo's airdodge is amazing. Sporting the best FAF and invincibility, as well as a 2 frame start-up, invisibility, and the it has the unique trait of allowing you to move when buffered out of hitstun. All this together makes for a great airdodge. The icing on the cake, is that 4 of Mewtwo's aerials will come out before he hits the ground. Thus, Mewtwo can do crazy and rather broken things with Phasing.

Here is the situation. Mewtwo is standing about a Phase away from the opponent. Mewtwo can either approach, or retreat with Phasing.

B: retreat. Mewtwo Phases backwards, causes the opponent to shield for no reason and feel rather stupid while Mewtwo gets half of an SB charge for free.

A: Approach. Mewtwo Phases forward, at this point he can either, Nair (RAR), Fair, Uair or Grab.

A, B and C all go the same way, the opponent shields it or gets hit. (BTW, a spaced Fair cannot be Shieldgrabbed) On hit, Mewtwo gets an easy 20% or even a stock. On whiff, Mewtwo is in a slight Disadvantage unless he crossed-up with Nair or spaced Fair.

D is where things get interesting. If the opponent decides that you are going to approach and attack, then you can mix-up your options and empty hop grab him instead. Garnering Stage-control as well as 13/12%, or killing the opponent.

Needless to say, this is pretty good for Mewtwo. There are downsides, Marios Nair and it's ilk are rather good at stuffing Phasing, and some players could get enough MU knowledge to have the timing down for a near frame perfect punish, but there are mix-ups for this too. fake-outs and such.​

Hey guys, check out the OP. I put all the phasing discussion there and categorized it. The new topic is...

Shadowball:

Discuss: Frame traps, Set-ups, true/combos, uses, FC or Mini SB? FC or Mini SB or HC SB?

I will post my thoughts on it later.

 

[meleebrawler]

Boy, I never imagined Phasing as a name would catch on as well as it has now when I first suggested it as a more concise way of saying SHAD. And it basically fits, unlike other invisifying airdodges he's not just doing that, but literally entering a pocket dimension briefly, since any items he may be holding disappear with him.

Anyways, Shadow Ball. If you have the time, it's usually better to charge as it's recoil makes it a powerful defensive option, not to mention the psychological impact of you holding it and decisively winning projectile wars. Uncharged is usually better for annoying fighters with poor approaches and baiting airdodges offstage.

 

[Mr. B]

My super-secret shadowball technique is to SH backwards and time the release so that it leaves just before I land (for a nice bit of defensive recoil momentum further backward) but this has an interesting result relating to the overall camera perspective - it zooms out to compensate during the SH (as long as the opponent does not move towards me) but does so a little too slowly so the shadowball launch startup animation is partially offscreen.

It makes it harder for my victim to see it coming... Its cheese, but sometimes a little cheese is nice as long as there is also some hardy bread and butter to go with it.

 

[Y2Kay]

Im gonna copy and paste my shadow ball rant here I guess:

Alright, I'm going to talk about Shadowball, since there are some big misconceptions about the move.

Just because you have a reflector, bucket, cape, or pocket doesn't mean you nullify the moves uses entirely. Though Mewtwo may dislike reflectors and rather not have to deal with them, it doesn't mean it loses all it's uses. It's still a good neutral tool regardless.

Alright, let me set up a scenario:

A Villager is within kill percent of my Shadow ball. How many ways can I kill him with Shadow ball?

• Villager misses a ground tech, I cover his getup options with Shadow Ball. He dies.
• I read a roll or standing getup option off the ledge. He dies.
• The Villager whiff a grounded option, such as grab, smash attack, or tilt. I retaliate with a Shadow Ball. He dies.
• Villager launches a lloid rocket. I reflect it back and follow it up with a Shadow Ball. Villager accidentally shield both and breaks his shield. I go for the disrespect and stun him with a Disable and charge another shadow ball and throw it at him. He dies.
• I catch him off guard and throw it at him while offstage instead of going for average things like a Fair or Bair. He doesnt react fast enough. He dies.
• I bait out the pocket and then fire the Shadow Ball. He misses it. He dies.
• I throw it out at point blank because YOLO! He dies.

Just for reference, I've tried all of these on actual villager main's and have worked. Villager can avoidable of these options, but that's the point. It doesn't matter whether or not the Shadowball hits, it's about if he has the shadow ball. Villager may be able to stop a shadow ball, but he can't stop a Mewtwo from charging shadow ball. Not only does he have to use a move that literally had no other offensive uses other wise, and has to taken in to account all the scenarios I stated. At that point, Mission Complete! The psychological effect of Shadow Ball has taken its course, which is just as valuable, if not more, than the fact that Shadow Ball kills people pretty early.

If you still disagree, think of it this way: Do you think Villager, Game and Watch, Falco, and others have anything better to do than sit there and use a reflector? Of course they do! Villager could be planting a tree, firing a lloid rocket or a sling shot. Game and Watch would like to get in a grab for some bread and butter down throw combos. Falco would like to..... do whatever the heck Falco likes to do. All I know is spamming reflector is not on the top of his to do list in neutral.

What actual matters if you can stop him from charging. Sheik's needles and falcon's speed plus dangerous dash grab combos made Charging shadow ball kind of risky. It's also why the needles nerf is a big deal in that matchup.

Basically this is why falcon is perceived as losing, but villager is considered even (for now )

This rant was triggered by GnW main who said he hard counter Mewtwo because of bucket btw.

 

[Browny]

SHADOWBALL

You all know my thoughts on this

http://smashboards.com/threads/shadowball-guide-lots-of-gfys-90-complete.413774/

I still believe that many top level Mewtwo mains are not using shadowball optimally, throwing it out in neutral, not charging one up regularly and really nerfing themselves. For a comparison, we are seeing significantly more nair-bair follow ups than we used to as players are getting better at predicting which direction the enemy will pop out of. This is an example of optimal play that a year ago, barely existed.

There must (and will) be a period of time when Mewtwo mains really focus on FCSB to reliably hit with it more often. Maybe it will be later in the year, maybe its tomorrow, it will happen though as what I see clearly the biggest room for optimal Mewtwo play.

If anyone watched Abadango 2-1 over K9 yesterday, you would see this. His SB use was plain bad. Constantly firing it from neutral with no chance of hitting. Abadango is normally REALLY good with shadowball but he really didn't use it properly in that set. K9 jumps around so much, all Abadango had to do was wait for Sheik to DJ and try to hit her landing with it. If he did this, K9 would likely bouncing fish towards Mewtwo which is basically a free upsmash.

People keep using shadow ball like some mid-range harassing tool in the same way as Water Shuriken and Boomerang. Yes it has its uses like that, but it should be treated more like Charge Shot because of its massive fear factor.

Also when on battlefield he should have tried to fire FCSB through the platform to catch shieks landing. Like I show here

http://gfycat.com/HatefulAnguishedCottonmouth

I wish I saw this more often from Mewtwo mains. Its not too hard to do.

 

[Reizilla]

Subbing to this thread as a new Mewtwo main since last week. Got third at a local yesterday (though I had to pay the extra $2 for the Cloud ditto in one set), so I'm excited to see what I can do with this guy. Hella fun too.

 

[Megamang]

Following the whole using shadow ball more like charge shot line of thought, I really love it for its high damage. Obviously this is great for reflector battles, since m2 can manipulate those greatly to his favor. But its also great for its shield pressure. I like to use it to end a pressure moment. Like I engage the opponent, dtilt his shield. I SHAD, to avoid his counterpoke. After this, I fair. and she shields it. Then I just fire a FCSB. Either shield break, or Shadow Ball hit, are very likely. Time it to make dodges difficult.


That said, the actual charge is very useful. It both threatens approaches, and encourages them (this is a devastating combo for a neutral game, especially when paired with a reflector!). It can slow your double jump ascension, and generally forces a crazy amount of respect. These factors increase as it charges, so it of course is in your benefit to charge whenever possible.

But, maybe stopping at 80% charge is a better option in neutral, sometimes. Since then, you can throw an almost-as-powerful shadow ball at a moment's notice, or charge it while they shield the shadow ball that isn't coming.

Also, its considerably harder to powershield the variable charge shadow balls, which means only good things since a powershielded FCSB really sucks, since you basically wasted your charge.



Anyways, I love shadow ball offstage a lot. Its a mixup for fair for me. I jump off at them, and swing a fair. Once this baits enough airdodoges, jumping out and firing a point blank shadow ball can kill them ridiculously early.

 

[Mr. B]

Getting knocked high offstage from grounded it is totally possible (though risky) to go from zero to FCSB as you fall, then AD DJ Teleport back to the ledge. I mainly charge my shadowballs offstage nowadays. Sometimes the opponent comes out to try and interrupt but I release it mid-strength into their faces or AD>DJ>BAir.

Stopping the charge before it gets to be full is nice, since launching it is quicker from the charging animation, and so when you want a quick release, double tap B. Depending on your timing when you stopped the charge, you can sometimes get the fully charged ping notification just before a timely launch which is really satisfying.

Anyways, I love shadow ball offstage a lot. Its a mixup for fair for me. I jump off at them, and swing a fair. Once this baits enough airdodoges, jumping out and firing a point blank shadow ball can kill them ridiculously early.

ooo... I never thought about using it as an AD punish. recovery spoiler, sure, but going point blank purple surprise would be a great mixup with FAir. Ill try that later tonight

 

[Sonicninja115]

If anyone has questions about Abadango's style, ask them here and I will try to answer them. Remember, Mewtwo is an extremely technical player, to the point that people are only able to master certain things as of right now.
Overview:
KJ: Phasing, other things as well.
Abadango: SB usage, SH Nair, Dtilt-DJ Uair
Me: Nair, Phasing
Metalex: Phasing, Uair

This doesn't showcase all the things these people know really well, but what they specialize in so to speak. Mewtwo's metagame will steadily increase as Aba learns more aspects of Mewtwo's metagame.

KillerJawz Could you please post about your stance on Nair in neutral? People are getting a very bad impression that we should spam it... Also, I want to add it to the OP.

Aba uses Mini SB's over FC for multiple reasons, (I do the same here) Mini SB's allow for easy follow-ups and frame traps. Aba often did SB-Grab. Even though it might hit shield, it is a 50/50 situation. Is Mewtwo going to attack? or grab? He never fully charged it because he doesn't make use of the pressure of it, instead, he tries to make people forget about how high it is at. Oftentimes, he charged it up to 18%.

Aba learned to LC and not SD, Yay! Also, most of Aba's LC's were actuall straight into the PF ones, not angled. He goes a SH height above the PF and teleports down. I cover it in my videos, not him, but the area.

Questions?

 

[Browny]

SH off stage while facing backwards - FCSB into the ledge to catch people with invincible upbs is legit as the ONLY way to stop these recoveries.

Corrin is an example of one. You cant dair corrin no matter how much you want to, you have 0 edgeguarding options vs that upb. Falling off and doing a bair for a stagespike kind of sets you up to get hit by the upb, SB avoids that. The timing to hit them with it is strict, but it can be done.

Yes it isnt too hard to tech, but its up to 26% that you wouldnt have gotten otherwise.

 

[Y2Kay]

Sonicninja115 this may have something to do with ZeRo saying in his video that it's a "better approach" tool now that the size of the hitboxs have increased.

I like Nair a lot, but that move is garbage at approaching. Yuck!

 

[Sonicninja115]

Dabuz did an analysis video of Aba's Mewtwo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvtuI_HNvo4
​

Some of his info is questionable, but he has a lot of good insight.

 

[Y2Kay]

It's funny how Dabuz is gushing over tools Mewtwo Mains no well, like jab up tilt up smash

 

[KillerJawz]

KillerJawz Could you please post about your stance on Nair in neutral? People are getting a very bad impression that we should spam it... Also, I want to add it to the OP.

ok. here we go.

nair for mewtwo is a really unique tool. it has several different uses and these uses differ depending on the zones you're controlling, as well as match ups, stages and other things. the move itself has no place in neutral. and most of the time abadango attempted to 'approach' with this move, he gained literally nothing, and was frequently anti aired. watch void/mars vs abadango and you can see how often his nairs got stuffed for using them too far away.

when you're directly next to someone however, nair becomes an incredible move, but not just because of what it does, but because of what mewtwo can do in this situation. if the opponent's back is to you and yours is to them, but you're really close to eachother, you obviously can't bair (you wouldn't anyway), so nair can cover them, provided you gets yours out first.

aba always dashes into a zone where he's just outside of dtilt range so he can apply direct pressure with several moves, nair included. the reason this is so strong is because it's a constant hitbox that doesn't require any specific timing, as the move refreshes itself really quickly. if he uses it outside of this zone when an opponent has an answer ready, he gets punished (as he did many many times).

nair is a strong tool for mewtwo. it covers ledge beautifully if you time it correctly, it combos into many moves, can be used to set up a foostool combo, is safe on block, can cross up, does good damage and can pressure platforms among even more things i haven't listed, but you cannot and should not use this move to dart across the air. the hitboxes are still tiny, even after the changes, you will STILL lose to everything that comes your way, you will still lose trades, that didn't change.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Changing the discussion topic, but first, I did a pros/cons write up in the guide...

Mini Shadowball, Half-Charged Shadowball or Full-Charged Shadowball?

Advantages for Mini SB:
Mini SB is great for frame traps, comboing into Grab, and abusing the 50 frame no ledge grab window. Mini SB covers your approach, and allows you to safely retreat as well. Mini SB also allows you more movement options, in the form of Wave SB and B-Reverse SB.

Disadvantages for Mini SB:
Mini SB doesn't kill, can't stuff approaches and only does 3%.

Advantages for HC SB:
HC SB allows Mewtwo to still have limited access to B-reverse movement, and have a 18% projectile with some killing potential. It is also easy to charge into it's full charged form and doesn't show the opponent how charged it is.

Disadvantages for HC SB:
None really. Sorta a middle-grounds.It has some of the disadvantages of Mini, and some of FC. However, it has some of the advantages of Mini, and of FC.

Advantages for FC SB:
Kills stupidly early, does 26%, travels fast, pressures the opponent, catches techs and rolls, insane shield damage. It has a lot going for it.

Disadvantages for FC SB:
It takes approximately ?? seconds to charge, in which you usually have to give up stage control or advantage to get. Cannot frame trap as well, and shows the opponent that you have it full-charged through his glowing hands.

Consensus:
They are all good, but IMO, it is best to HC, and then get the FC through movement and such. Mini's are great for frame trapping and edge-guarding, but HC has a ton of uses and can easily and quickly be charged into FC, or released to get a mini SB. Consensus: HC when possible, otherwise, Mini's work great.

I also have a neutral game section and a part with my thoughts on the patches. I took the patch notes and gave my opinion on each one, check it out! Also, I update the guide multiple times a week, but it doesn't have a last edited thing for people to see it, the guide is much larger then it was when I first posted it, and updated for the current patches and findings.

New topic:

Did Abadango deserve his win? Jank or Skill? Character or Player? Was MU inexperience a deciding factor? How will Mewtwo do in the future?

go for it.

 

[Y2Kay]

I'd like to mention for that summary that FCSB is a good edge guarding tool too, especially for linear recoveries like the spacie's. You can also cover get up options.

I don't think Abadango really janked his opponents. (FS disable is friggin' hard to do!) Was there MU ignorance for his opponents? I guess so, but that Void set is really telling, considering they made the best solo sheik main (with experience) to switch to a secondary he never needed till then.

I'm kind of the opinion that Mewtwo will eventually become a staple high tier similar to I think he has the staying power to remain relevant, as long as a patch nerfs him, which I doubt.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'd like to mention for that summary that FCSB is a good edge guarding tool too, especially for linear recoveries like the spacie's. You can also cover get up options.

I don't think Abadango really janked his opponents. (FS disable is friggin' hard to do!) Was there MU ignorance for his opponents? I guess so, but that Void set is really telling, considering they made the best solo sheik main (with experience) to switch to a secondary he never needed till then.

I'm kind of the opinion that Mewtwo will eventually become a staple high tier similar to I think he has the staying power to remain relevant, as long as a patch nerfs him, which I doubt.

Void also plays Mewtwo, so he should have pretty good knowledge of Mewtwo at least.. And he has used Fox a lot before. Mainly against Larry Lurr though.

 

[Browny]

Matchup inexperience is absolutely NOT a valid excuse for a top level player, in anything.

If you haven't practiced at all versus a certain character and you lose, then you have no right to call yourself a top level player by using that as an excuse. Do you think high level boxers/MMA fighters complain about inexperience vs a certain fighting style if they lose a fight? Of course not, its up to them to study the opponents matches beforehand. Failure to do so is no excuse.

Also people seem to forget that Abadango has a history of beating top level players including nairo and dabuz before pound. Him outplacing them should have been expected. In the past he has only been a few close hits away from grand finals in any other major tournament.

Abadango won because of his skill and he proved he can do it with Pac-man and Wario, other mid tiers in the past. It would seem that he just needed a better character in order to win those few extra matches. I suspect his low placing at genesis was more to do with that he never switched his playstyle as metaknight and he ran into people who were prepared to play so lame against him, things he had probably never seen before with literally running the timer on him, never approaching etc. Thats not really common in japan. Nothing to do with matchup inexperience, more so playstyle inexperience.