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The ones that were skipped

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
Location
Ravnica
Hey guys. I know everyone is super hyped for Ultimate, I myself included. But I think most of us also share a common belief: that Smash 4 had one of the most unbalanced, and frankly, disrespectful roster choices.

Let's look at the series that got nothing new or even lost some things:
The Legend of Zelda
Kirby
Metroid
Star Fox
Earthbound/Mother
Donkey Kong

What did we get from the roster? Some good things, yes, and one or two excellent things. But we also got the motherload of clone movesets, uninspired character design, an attempt at increasing extra party representation and even characters that were added simply as advertisements. The roster was truly something less than it could have, and should have been.

Let's break down what happened to these six series:

The Legend of Zelda: :4link::4sheik::4zelda::4ganondorf::4tlink:
Although Zelda never saw a major release on the Wii U until the very last day of the console's life, there was some potential. For one, keeping the Twilight Princess models was nothing new. Perhaps Link could have been his Skyward Sword version, with a new up smash performing the Skyward Strike, or he could use the equipment from SS in his moveset rather than making them in game items. After that, though, it does seem reasonable that Zelda was not relevant enough in regards of new releases to constitute much larger representation.

Kirby: :4kirby::4metaknight::4dedede:
Among many players, not just Kirby fans, the lack of a single newcomer for the series was the ultimate insult. It seemed like the "Sakurai Bias" argument had hit its mark and prevented the smash team from increasing the representation of one of Ninendo's most popular and beloved franchises. What was even worse to players hoping to see Kirby newcomers was the fact that many slots were simply handed over to other characters regardless of the opinion of the playerbase, making it appear that their most hoped for newcomers had lost their chance to an undeserving fighter. Smash 4 was the largest disappointment for fans hoping to see Kirby newcomers. After all, no one wants to hear "Maybe it will happen next time."

Metroid: :4samus::4zss:
Many players hoping to see the popular Ridley character were in for a devastating surprise when he was revealed as a stage boss. Ridley was, at the time, the only character from the Metroid series that was in high demand--and for the record, Ridley was one of the most requested characters ever. Sakurai's excuse, that Ridley was too big to downsize for Smash, was not enough for the majority of supporters. So it's no surprise that many players are happy to see not just Ridley, but also Dark Samus, in Ultimate.

Star Fox: :4fox::4falco:
Star Fox was one of Nintendo's biggest jewels at the time of the N64. However, during the time of the Wii U, the series was in a major state of decline. Removing Wolf from the roster seemed like a good idea at the time, since the number of Star Fox players was dwindling and he featured a moveset already seen in Fox and Falco. But this turned out to be a let down for fans of the series and for Brawl players, who were hoping to see him return from his debut only one game earlier. Wolf would eventually become one of the fastest growing requests for DLC, and one of the famed returning veterans in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. But the Star Fox series never saw anything new in Smash 4.

Earthbound/Mother :4ness: :4lucas:(DLC)
The Mother series had concluded itself years before, ending like a typical story rather than continuing to expand itself. Just like Wolf, it seemed reasonable to the smash designers to remove Lucas due to a small popularity and zero growth. Lucas was removed, but brought back as DLC after requests came in. It seemed that although Mother was no longer producing games, it was never because oof a loss in interest, it was bcuase the story was over and fans still loved the game, and it grew on the eShop. Like Star Fox with it, Earthbound never saw anything new in Smash 4.

Donkey Kong: :4dk::4diddy:
One of Nintendo's oldest characters and icons, the Donkey Kong series unfortunately never saw a newcomer in Smash 4. This came as a surprise to fans hoping to see new fighters come in, since Dixie Kong was planned for Brawl but later scrapped. Other characters such as Funky Kong and the immensely popular King K. Rool also never saw the light of day in Smash 4. But this did not strike as unusual for some players, who did not expect a Donkey Kong newcomer, like STar Fox or Mother, due to the series' small popularity by comparison to other games on the Wii U and 3DS. In the end, though, many were still disappointed at the lack of a Donkey Kong newcomer.

Once the final roster was completed in 2016, it seemed like anything but. The roster consisted of many characters in some series, while just as popular, if not, more popular series lagged behind in terms of representation, who lost their spots for various reasons. I did not create this roster to make anyone feel bad, and I'm not trying to spread a message of any kind. However, Smash 4 came off as a major disappointment to anyone who hoped to see a more diverse selection of fighters, including myself. S what do you think about the choices for the Smash 4 roster? Do you agree with them? Do you think they were made poorly? Please let me know in the thread.
 

Mgl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
111
Is this just a long way of saying you don't like the amount of Fire Emblem characters?
 

Battiest Badger

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
33
Location
Ohio, USA
It seems as if you've answered your own question. Many of these games didn't have much or any representation in between Brawl and Smash 4. The only thing here I could see as "unfair" is the fact that Wolf was cut and never added back as DLC like many of the others. No matter how large the roster gets, the truth is you can't fit in every Nintendo or Nintendo-adjacent character into the game.

I mean why even bother with two different Links (or three in Ultimate's case)? There's only two Mario's in the game, and he's got arguably more to draw from than Link.

If you didn't like the roster that's fine. We all have characters we want and may never get. I believe it's been said Sakurai claims including everyone in Ultimate was equivalent to opening Pandora's box, but you could make the argument he did that with Smash 4. Nobody knows what Sakurai's intentions after release are, but it's very possible that now that DLC's been implemented once, people will go crazy pestering him with "When will this character be added?" That may very well be the thing that eventually pushes him away if he had any thoughts of continuing forward after this game. In 64, Melee, and Brawl, you got your roster and that was it. Now, though, people are going to assume one game with DLC guarantees them the right to future DLC characters, and the outcry for consistent new characters that everybody wants (which is impossible) will never stop.

If there's a point to my rambling, I think it's this: Smash 4 is in the rearview. It's fine if you didn't like it as much as previous installments, but I think it's sometimes best to just look at what you have and be glad that you have it. There will never be a "complete" or "perfect" Smash title, because no two people have the same idea of what that would look like, but it definitely looks like they made an attempt with Ultimate.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
Location
Ravnica
To answer everyone's questions I was trying to document what happened in Smash 4 with regards to the roster after some of my friends began to debate whether or not they were good ideas, I decided to leave that up to viewers. I left out F-Zero since it was clear to all of this that the franchise did not have much of a chance at extra fighters in Smash 4 (although an echo fighter may not be a bad idea). In my personal opinion I do believe that FE has one or two too many fighters but FE is not the only series that I felt they went over the top with.
 

Scicky

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
263
Am I alone in thinking that Kirby isn't under represented at all? It's 3 biggest characters are in with perfectly unique movesets, and there aren't many other characters from the franchise who are that iconic. Bandana Dee would be cool, but his popularity is a relatively recent phenomenon.

I will agree that Smash 4 was not kind to it's legacy franchises though, and while I don't necessarily have a problem with the amount of Fire Emblem characters, rather their lack of diversity; it is a little excessive for a franchise whose sales numbers represent only a fraction of Mario's, Zelda's or Pokemon's.

Smash 4 just had a lot of new franchises, niche picks, and third parties that at the end of the day just left me feeling kind of unfulfilled. The character I was most excited for was Mewtwo, and he's not even technically new.
 

SupriceSupplies

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
322
Location
The Netherlands
Note beforehand: Unless specified otherwise, I'm mainly talking about the base roster.

Speaking as a Kirby fan, while I was hoping for a new Kirby character during 4, I wasn't really able to name anyone that felt like a must add, as the vast majority of notable Kirby characters were one-offs at the time. And the idea of adding Bandana Dee at the time (if they even considered him) probably felt a bit too premature in early 2012 since the only notable roles he had were in Super Star Ultra's Revenge of the King and Kirby's Return to Dream Land. It wasn't really until Triple Deluxe and Rainbow Curse (the latter came out just a few months before the ballot started) that he solidified himself as a recurring, main character. (Though he did appear on Dream Collection's title screen and on promotional material.) I did have a small wish of Prince Fluff at the time, but I wasn't surprised when he didn't get in at all.

I honestly don't have much of an opinion on most of the other franchises, though I did find it noticeable that Zelda didn't get a unique newcomer despite not having one since Melee (I found Ghirahim pretty likely at the time), as for DK, Star Fox, and Metroid, I wasn't too familiar with their franchises at the time, but I did know some bits and pieces, so characters such as Dixie and K. Rool never even popped in my mind. I knew about Ridley but was doubtful about his chances, and I was kinda surprised when Krystal didn't get in. Wolf's and Lucas's being cut from the base roster also caught me off guard. But in hindsight, I guess I can see why it happened.

As for F-Zero, I entertained the idea despite never having played a single game, but with not having a new game since the Gamecube era, it was just a hopeful thought.

I was still glad to see some other franchises (mainly Punch Out!! and Xenoblade) got some love as well, not to mention the two base roster third parties I thought were great additions.

...Though I'll be honest, getting two unique Mario newcomers in the base roster kind of felt like a slap in the face, but I warmed up to them and their movesets.

Don't really have much of a grudge against Kid Icarus, though, but I did find it funny that Dark Pit got into the base game of all things. I thought Palutena was a safe bet, but seeing Dark Pit as well caught me off guard. But again, knowing why it happened, I suppose it makes sense.

Same goes for Robin and Lucina, though I had no idea who they were at the time, but I did get Fire Emblem Awakening because I thought Robin looked really cool. (Generally I thought a new FE character was a pretty safe bet.) Roy I didn't think was too strange as DLC, though Corrin felt like a really strange addition, but I wasn't surprised when it happened nonetheless because I knew Fates was a thing this time around. Similar to Mario however, I warmed up to their moveset.

But I do hope that Ultimate will give at least some love towards Kirby and Zelda at the very least. Glad that DK got its time to shine (and we still may or may not get Dixie, too.), and that Star Fox got Wolf back, on top of Pokémon reclaiming Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu after being cut from previous games.

...Or they could suddenly add a Yarn Yoshi echo to give the Yoshi series some love, and maybe a Captain Falcon echo, I wouldn't complain in that case.
 

MacDaddyNook

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
1,197
Outside of cutting Snake, I was fine with Smash 4's roster. I initially didn't care for the three clones that were tacked on at the end, but I came to accept them. Honestly, the franchises you mentioned didn't have any characters I really cared about Smash-wise, so not getting another Mother or Kirby character didn't bother me a bit.
 
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