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~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

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IcyLight

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I noticed that your guys' counterpick stage for Falco is Jungle Japes.

...

you may want to change that.
actually i 3 stock falcos on japes. olimar is just better there for some reason ><

also, may i add to the grounded up-b, i shield it and then usmash as he loops back down. i never tried uair or upb though, im gonna try that that can link to much better options :D
 

BOB SAGET!

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I don't even know what we're discussing! The thread title says Falco, your talking about falco, some people are talking about the ice climbers, some are talking about MK! Who r we discussing?:confused:
 

Excellence

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Uptilt as in the attack or tilting up while shielding? The latter will help you shield through the tornado.

Dair isn't a great option for punishing it from up high. Nair is better, as it doesn't have as much punishable lag, it's multihit (so it may clank with some parts of the tornado like it does sometimes), and it sends them into the air instead of down below you.
I'm mean out of shield to catch the Shuttle Loop. If I shield then jump > Nair like you said, that takes like 6 frames right? Up Tilt is exactly 6 frames so if i buffer out of shield, would that work? If it does, i'd say thats better because it keeps Olimar grounded.
 

DanGR

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I'm mean out of shield to catch the Shuttle Loop. If I shield then jump > Nair like you said, that takes like 6 frames right? Up Tilt is exactly 6 frames so if i buffer out of shield, would that work? If it does, i'd say thats better because it keeps Olimar grounded.
I don't know if uptilt would work, honestly. I haven't tried that yet. :dizzy:

edit:
I don't even know what we're discussing! The thread title says Falco, your talking about falco, some people are talking about the ice climbers, some are talking about MK! Who r we discussing?:confused:
The title says Falco, you're right. That's the character we're discussing at the moment. In a couple days, I'll attempt to redirect the discussion towards the IC, if anyone is still interested.

There are also other characters and specific tactics that people have trouble with though. In an attempt to reduce the number of threads floating around the Olimar boards, I'm allowing discussion of those other characters in this thread too. If you're just here for discussion on the main character, then just ignore the rest.
 

DarkAura

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nice revision bob, definitely explain the more crucial parts of the match-up. However you Based the majority of your guide off fighting me didn't you... if you did id recommend re-doing it again as i play completely different from other marths...

but anyways it hits most of the major points in the match up... good job i guess?

btw im not saying you DID im saying IF you did
 

BOB SAGET!

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No ive fought other marths, actually SOLID is what really showed me how marths play. He was my mentor for a short time. He told me what to do and not do. And ive played good marths on the friend finder faux aswell.
 

kirbywizard

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Ok I need some zelda tips please.
For some reason I just suck vsing her, give me a shiek anyday.Sure I play on wifi but still I need help. I have no trouble avoiding those air attacks. But what kills me most of the time is those smashes. They seem to have a big hit box and it gets bigger in the last frame. It kills sooner then expected. What are some good counter picks and ways to get around those smashes? I am sure this is were all match up questions go correct?
 

DanGR

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Shield A LOT. Her grab is pretty awful. 12 frames I think. IRL, you can actually shield in place and spotdodge if you see its animation coming. Its really pathetic. But you're on wifi, so that wouldn't work... Shield through all of her smashes and either roll away or punish with a shieldgrab or something. Like Skank said, Zelda really has no answer to grabs. Stand still, spam grabs, and wait for her to jump. Then you can literally shieldgrab everything she can do. Grab, grab, grab.

BTW everyone, I'll be gone for about a week. If someone wants to move the discussion along to another character, go ahead.

____
 

MiniTroika

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I don't know if this has been mentioned but, Up Tilt protects you against Falco's Phantasm. Sometimes it outprioritizes it,cancels it, or just protects you. I learned this from playing Larry quite often (The horror lol)

Olimars need to start using the buffering system for their smashes. I also suggest to try to always land with a Nair (ex. SH Up Air > N AIR) or (ex. SH Up Air > Airdodge > D Smash though this is situational) It helps to catch people off guard and provides extra protection upon landing if you autocancel it.
 

Snail

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Kirby's upB spam will stop you from getting any latch damage and kill all pikmin you throw at him. It's annoying as hell. Fortunately, Kirby's upB isn't exactly the fastest move, so it's extremely easy to avoid. However, you'll be forced to approach. The best way to do this is to run in while powershielding the waves, until you're JUST out of your fsmash range. Try to stay in that range as much as possible. Kirby has no tools to do anything there. If he continues to upB, you have enough time to run in, powershield the Final Cutter coming down then punish with usmash OoS iirc. If he stops upBing, you can go with whatever you feel is best.


Oh, and if he's going to edgeguard with the aerial hammer, whistle TWICE. I've whistled the first swing only to get hit by the second countless times >__>

If he floats above you, get the hell out of there. Dair -> Fsmash is broken D:
 

Dabuz

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IIRC kirbie's fsmash goes through pikmin

this matchup is very simple, don't throw pikmin at him while he is aerial, his bair will kill them all instantly, wait for him to get grounded then mix up shield grabs and pivot grabs, on the ground, throw pikmin, bait him into the air by jumping, and repeat above steps, throw in some anti air moves when he gets predictable as well(up-b, nair, and my favorite: shorthop upair)
 

Plasma Pikmin

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Mostly what dabuz said sums up this matchup. Most Kirbies would just stay in the air most of the game and go on the ground with probably Dair, which Olis should Pivot or Shield Grab. Mostly, it's just predicting their aerial movements, and punishing them when he lands. If they Up B on the ground, I continue to Side B. They still have to approach eventually. Or if they spam it, I can just powershield and grab or Fsmash. The only thing that can be annoying is if they swallow you, which isn't supposed to even happen. His Pikmin have more priority than ours. But other than that, it's not that hard. Probably even.
 

BOB SAGET!

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no its even, kirby is gonna always try to attack from the air. He can kill pkmn easily aswell. Plus were screwed if we get caught off stage. We just need to preassure kirby and grab/pivot grab.
 

BOB SAGET!

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Kirby is just too deadly in the air. Olimar will have to stay grounded to win. And pressure kirby, then force kirby to screw up, then bam!
 

fromundaman

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I really don't know what to say about this matchup.

As Hilt can attest, I have yet to figure out how to play it. It feels like everything Kirby can do gets pivot grabbed...
 

fromundaman

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Spaces with what?

I mean, I feel like I tried everything, and other than rising Bairs, pivot grabs beat everything.

That being said, other Kirbies don't seem to have AS much trouble with it as me, so I must be doing something wrong.
 

fromundaman

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Nah, Y.b.M.'s just better than me ^^;
I don't count YbM. He's not human :laugh:.

I thought Asdioh beat you too, or was that just a single set at C4?
I don't know... I just know my Kirby gets *****, Bair spacing or no.

I have to say though, FC has potential in this MU, since it can eradicate desynched Pikmin really easily while protecting you from your SideB. That being said, the enormous landing lag makes it's usage questionable...
 

gantrain05

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kirby really has no approach, all he's got is his Bairs, and those are very punishable with olimar. he approaches with Bair, throw pikmin at him/Nair/pivot grab all day long, he tries to Dair you, just Utilt him.
 

fromundaman

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kirby really has no approach, all he's got is his Bairs, and those are very punishable with olimar. he approaches with Bair, throw pikmin at him/Nair/pivot grab all day long, he tries to Dair you, just Utilt him.
This.

If we get in/get you in the air/get you offstage, you're in trouble, but the troubles actually getting in.
 

RichBrown

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So about Falco, I learned to never leave the ground.... ever. It made the matchup stupid easy.

Hey can we talk about Marth because I've been getting ***** by Marth lately, I don't care if you guys might have just recently talked about Marth, we are gonna talk about him again ready go
 

BOB SAGET!

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Dude, i just revised the marth matchup guide. It's been updated a month ago. Anyway, it's true kirby doesnt have much approach options but he'll be forced to approach because of olimars pkmn. Olimar needs to be careful and get a chance to grab and smash.
 

t!MmY

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Below is what I wrote on the Olimar match-up for the Kirby players
(Here's the original threaed)



Vs. Captain Olimar (& Pikmin)

Camping B-air against Olimar isn't going to win the game for you. Olimar never has to leave himself open to the B-air; a good Olimar isn't going to stand in one place F-smashing while Kirby is hovering in front of him. The Pikmin chain (U-special) will shoot out diagonally and knock Kirby out of the air if you're just floating around. If you try to be aggressive Olimar can punish anything Kirby has, out-of-shield.

You have to read Olimar really, really well and really, really consistantly.

In the air you have to predict his U-special, his Shield vs. your Aerial, his dashing U-smash, and his grabs when you try to move from air to ground. When you're approaching on the ground you have to know when he's going to shield vs your Tilts/F-smash/Dash Attack, you have to know when he's going to dodge your Grab attempts, when he's going to retreat (usually with Pivot Grab or Pikmin Toss), and you have to know when he's going to D-smash if you try to roll behind him.

When you go for your attacks you'll want to use attacks with as little lag as possible. U-tilt, Jab, and D-tilt are all good up close, while Grab and F-tilt is a little bit riskier. Smash attacks are very easy to punish if you miss because of all the lag afterward, but if you land a F-smash on Olimar it can lead to an easy KO.

For the most part, you want Olimar in the air. He's much less of a threat when he cannot grab, smash, or shield like he can on the ground. Better yet, you want him in the air and off the stage because he's a heartbeat away from getting edge-hogged. If you can hit Olimar after his mid-air jump is used up and you can get him off the stage, it's pretty much a lost stock for him at practically any percent.

Use Final Cutter as much as you can get away with, but judiciously. We all know Final Cutter is easy to punish, but not while you're chopping up Pikmin from half the stage away from Olimar. Let him know that you're not a push-over at long range, but not so much that he has time to punish you on your FC lag.

You have to learn which move to use to counter Olimar's next course of action. For example, if you approach with a Shield you had better be 100% sure Olimar is not going to go for a grab. If you know he's going to dodge, use a slow start-up attack like a charged F-smash, a Hammer, Inhale, or Dash Attack. If you expect a shield, go for a Grab, Inhale or play it tricky with things like a D-air crossover. If Olimar is going to Pivot Grab upon your approach, send a Final Cutter shot at him or jump over the grab and hit him with a B-air.

Speaking of the B-air, play it safe with your B-airs as much as you can. You never want to B-air Olimar's shield and land next to him in lag, that's just inviting pain. Use rising B-airs and pull away from Olimar to keep out of his reach. You don't even have to aim for Olimar, you can aim for his Shield to put him into Shield Stun as you retreat or you can intentionally whiff B-airs in front of him which puts even more distance between you and his out-of-shield options. There's always a chance that Olimar will leave himself open and your B-air will hit, or he might drop his shield or flub an attack or something and allow you to go from Rising-missed-Bair to 2nd B-air that's guaranteed to land.

Use N-air to knock Pikmin off of yourself - it's practically guaranteed to get any Pikmin off of you with the added bonus of un-spamming your Stale Moves. You can also use the N-air as an approach since it will knock Pikmin out of the air and will still hit Olimar if he's caught unaware. There's also a good chance that the N-air's hitbox will clash with Olimar's attacks (like Olimar's F-air) and can get you close as an approach, but the timing has to be very precise.

If you can get a Copy on Olimar, you'll have a very useful projectile at your disposal. Kirby's Olimar hat will let him throw Pikmin that out-prioritize Olimar's Pikmin, which can give you a much needed edge against camping and ranged damage. It's also great to send a barrage of Pikmin at Olimar while he's trying to jump and recover while off stage.

Take the opportunities as they come. If D-tilt trips, then by all means go for a F-smash. Leaving gaping holes in your defense by letting Olimar punish you for everything you whiff or flub will result in you losing very quickly. If you make sure Olimar isn't punishing, then you can be the one dishing out the damage and netting early KOs.

Since Olimar has so much more defensive options, greater range, and his over-powered U-smash, this match-up can be tough for Kirby. While Olimar is easy to gimp off-stage, it's getting him there that's the biggest problem for Kirby.

40-60, Olimar's advantage
 

Snail

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I agree with 60/40 in Olimar's favor as well. DanGR, would you be so kind to change that ratio in the OP? Kirby being a harder match than G&W is ridiculous xD
 

asob4

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So about Falco, I learned to never leave the ground.... ever. It made the matchup stupid easy.

Hey can we talk about Marth because I've been getting ***** by Marth lately, I don't care if you guys might have just recently talked about Marth, we are gonna talk about him again ready go
i take it mike has been manhandling you lately? haha
everything that can be said has been :/
moar pivot grabs haha
 
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